Israel loses F-16 in raid

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tbarlow

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 10:18

Jerusalem (AFP) - Israel struck a dozen Syrian and Iranian targets inside Syria on Saturday after an Israeli fighter jet crashed under fire from Syrian air defences, the military said.

The confrontation was the most serious between arch foes Israel and Iran since the start of the civil war in Syria in 2011.
Israel's raids came after it intercepted what it said was an Iranian drone entering its airspace from Syria.

It marked the first time Israel publicly acknowledged attacking what it identified as Iranian targets in Syria since the war began. The Israeli military issued a warning to Tehran, saying it was responsible for the drone that entered Israel, which it labelled an "attack." It said its reprisals after the exchange were "large-scale" raids.

"A few minutes ago, (Israeli aircraft)... targeted the Syrian Aerial Defence System and Iranian targets in Syria," a military statement said. "Twelve targets, including three aerial defence batteries and four Iranian targets that are part of Iran's military establishment in Syria were attacked."

Israel has repeatedly warned in recent weeks against the presence of Iranian forces in neighbouring Syria. The Israeli pilots of the crashed F16 were reported alive, although one was severely wounded.

According to the Israeli military, the confrontation began with a drone entering its airspace. Israeli forces identified an "Iranian UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle)" launched from Syria and intercepted it in Israeli airspace with a combat helicopter, a statement said. They then "targeted the Iranian control systems in Syria that sent the UAV into Israeli airspace," military spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus tweeted.

"Massive Syrian anti-air fire, one F16 crashed in Israel, pilots safe." Police said the F16 crashed in the Jezreel valley in northern Israel.

It was not clear if the jet crashed as a direct result of the Syrian fire. According to a separate military statement, "multiple anti-aircraft missiles were fired at IAF (Israel Air Force) aircraft." "The pilots of one of the aircraft abandoned as per procedure. The pilots landed in Israeli territory and were taken to the hospital for medical treatment." 'Iran is responsible' -

Conricus said the army had confirmed "accurate hits of (the) Iranian UAV control facility" in Syria. "Iran is responsible for this severe violation of Israeli sovereignty," Conricus said on Twitter.

Syria said its air defences repelled two Israeli raids on its military bases in the centre of the country, hitting more than one warplane during the first.

"At dawn, the Zionist enemy carried out a new aggression against one of our military bases in the centre of the country," state news agency SANA reported.

"Our air defences repelled it and hit more than one plane."

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based monitor of the seven-year civil war, said the Israeli raids had targeted several military bases in the east of the central province of Homs.

It said the bases are used by both Iranian and Russian military personnel deployed in support of the regime.

Air raid sirens had gone off in Israel in the early hours of the morning following the UAV interception and raids.

The army said it was "monitoring events and is fully prepared for further action, depending on assessments and necessity."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has held a series of meetings in recent months with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Iran's influence in war-torn Syria and Lebanon.

Netanyahu has been seeking to persuade Russia to limit Iran's presence near Israeli territory and to stop it from entrenching itself militarily in Syria.

Russia, Iran and Lebanon's Shiite Muslim militant group Hezbollah -- which is backed by Tehran -- all support Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the civil war.

In a meeting in Moscow last month, Netanyahu reiterated Israel's concerns of what he described as the attempts of Iran to establish a military presence in Syria and produce accurate weapons against Israel there.

"We won’t accept either of those, and will act according to our needs," Netanyahu said following the meeting with Putin.

Israel remain technically at war with Syria and occupies a swathe of the strategic Golan Heights that it seized in the Six-Day War of 1967 and later annexed in a move never recognised by the international community.

On Tuesday, Netanyahu took members of his security cabinet for a tour of the Israeli-occupied side, where they were briefed by the military on the situation.

"We want peace, but are prepared for any scenario, and suggest that nobody tries us," he said.

Israel has sought to avoid direct involvement in the Syrian war, but acknowledges carrying out dozens of air strikes there to stop what it says are advanced arms deliveries to Hezbollah.

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-jet-c ... 10542.html


Also see: Israeli F-16 shot down, pilots safe
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pfo

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 15:05

SA-3?
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rheonomic

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 19:14

Sufa? Haven't seen the model anywhere so far.
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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 20:00

rheonomic wrote:Sufa? Haven't seen the model anywhere so far.


Everything I've seen indicates F-16I, so yes.
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krorvik

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 20:04

The nose rwr blister was visible in one of the shots. Certainly looks like sufa.

Syria says 24 missiles fired if twitter is correct.
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ricnunes

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 21:10

Perhaps this was a pre-planned ambush by the Syrians/Iranians?

First send in a drone towards Israeli airspace knowing that this would trigger an air attack by Israel towards the drone/UAV command center.
Then wait for the incoming air attack with a considerable number of SAMs launcher in the vicinity (of the UAV command center) and engage the attacking aircraft with multiple SAMs.

What's your opinion on this?
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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rheonomic

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 21:27

ricnunes wrote:What's your opinion on this?


I've seen some thoughts on that as well. Not an operator, but at first glance seems like a reasonable explanation, especially given the previous performance of Syrian air defenses.

Anyone know what kind of UAS it was? I saw some rumblings on Twitter about it being an Iranian copy of the RQ-170 but couldn't confirm. I couldn't make out anything besides a probably flying wing configuration from the camera footage the IDF released.

Time for the IDF/AF to conduct a SEAD/DEAD campaign against the Syrians.
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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 21:44

I hope IRAN knows that it's time to stop, because petty sure Israel started building CFT for their F-35 like "yesterday".

And knowing their combat spirit? ; "A one way trip is an option".

Trumpy pays for the aircraft, Israel for the pilots.
Job done.
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krorvik

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 21:53

ricnunes wrote:What's your opinion on this?


Trying to provoke in Israeli planes, and then massively attack? Rather likely.

Oh, and if twitter is right, and they launched 24 missiles to down one Sufa - I'm not *that* impressed. Not sure how it plays out in the public though.
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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 22:07

Flurry Of Aircraft Shoot-Downs And Counter-Strikes Erupt Across Israel And Syria

A video has been released showing the downing of the Iranian drone. It appears to be a flying-wing configuration. In particular, Iran has been working to build similar shaped unmanned aircraft as the stealthy RQ-170 Sentinel it captured in 2011, although these knock-off craft, which come in various sizes and configurations, are far less advanced than their American counterpart. The propeller-driven "Simorgh" variant of the design appears to best match the aircraft shown in the video being shot down, although the video is low quality so it's hard to make the identification definitively.
...
The second part of the video shows the line-of-sight control vehicle for the drone being destroyed by an Israeli guided munition. Note that the weapon uses man-in-the-loop terminal guidance which is very popular with Israeli forces. You can read more about this concept of operations and these types of munitions here. The actual weapon used was not fired from an aerial platform, it was an IAI Harop "suicide" drone (seen it banner image at the top of this article).
...
Reports state that various missiles were involved in the Syrian anti-air onslaught, in which between a dozen and two dozen SAMs were fired. Cold War vintage SA-5 Gammon and SA-3 Goa missiles are said to have been included in the salvo, both of which the Assad regime has many of and has fired repeatedly towards IAF aircraft during raids over the country that have taken place over the years, with the frequency of those strikes having increased dramatically in recent months. The SA-17 Grizzly road-mobile SAM system—a modernized version of the SA-11 Buk—is also said to have been involved.
...
Al Arabiya is reporting that an Israeli F-15 was also hit in the SAM barrage, but that jet was able to make an emergency landing.


It's The Drive so who knows how much of this is accurate...
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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 03:26

krorvik wrote:Oh, and if twitter is right, and they launched 24 missiles to down one Sufa - I'm not *that* impressed. Not sure how it plays out in the public though.


I would say that this move played well because it is perceived by the general public or more precisely with the world's media outlet as being a success for the Syrian forces (against the Israelis).
For example in one of the media outlet in the country where I live, I read the following footnote headline:

"Israeli Air Attack thwarted by Syrian Air Defences."

From what I've read, the headline above is BS but the Syrians managing to shot down an Israeli Fighter Aircraft even if it took dozens of missiles to accomplish it, was clearly a success for the Syrians since it got the world's media attention (and with it the world's attention). I would say that this was a PR ("public relations") success but not so much of a tactical success - Fighter aircraft being shot down is "part of the game".
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 08:49

With losses happening when u pit top of the line 4th gen fighters equipped with arguably the most advanced ECM suites in the world against an integrated but dated air defence network, i simply do not understand why idiotic armchair generals can continue insisting how upgraded non-stealth fighters would somehow survive against double digit SAMs. This is real world demonstration of the need for an all stealth fighter fleet.

The risk of letting a single pilot fall into enemy hands is just too great in modern day air warfare. U can wipe out an entire enemy airbase and lose a single fighter. But in the eyes of many, the sight of a single pilot in enemy’s hands will make it a propaganda victory for the enemy.
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krorvik

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 09:59

It's not that simple. The israelis have been able to do this with much less risk in the past. Actually, losing just ONE F-16 over the past years is very good. Accusing their generals of being idiots is not the answer. S-125/200s are still lethal, especially when launched in numbers. And the F-35s are still not operational.

Now, the Iranians and the russians seem to be in the mix. So, the question to ask is - how have things changed recently that allow the syrians to mount such an attack?

Having the russians protect major strategic targets using other assets might be one of the answers. Note that the missiles were older syrian ones.

Also, the generals are the tools of the politicians. The Israelis are not known to back down.
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pmi

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 12:28

With losses happening when u pit top of the line 4th gen fighters equipped with arguably the most advanced ECM suites in the world against an integrated but dated air defence network, i simply do not understand why idiotic armchair generals can continue insisting how upgraded non-stealth fighters would somehow survive against double digit SAMs. This is real world demonstration of the need for an all stealth fighter fleet.


In 1999 after the F-117 shootdown did you decide that it was a real world demonstration exhibiting that stealth aircraft were not survivable?

There is far too little information available right now to form a reasonable opinion regarding this event.
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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 13:17

Does anyone know if this is Israeli or Syrian/Iranian of origin?
Or what type of weapon this is?

http://p.dw.com/p/2sSg4
CCE10870-3F35-4FBA-AA05-1E600A51E35B.jpeg
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