F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2016, 01:05
by slapshot!
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/mili ... /88568178/

The Air Force will soon stand up interim F-16 training units to increase pilot output, the service announced Thursday.

“We need to increase our pilot production, and soon we will announce the stand up of new F-16 training units,” Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James told reporters at a State of the Air Force briefing with Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein. "We expect to select candidate locations for up to two new training locations by the end of December 2016.

“In the meantime we intend to augment up to two of our existing training units to jump-start pilot production by the end of September 2017,” she said on Wednesday.

Because the Air Force cannot permanently base formal training units, or FTUs, without first conducting an environmental impact analysis, cost benefit analysis, and other site surveys, “which takes time,” an interim solution to increase fighter pilot training will temporarily move F-16 aircraft at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, to two of the existing F-16 training locations, the Air Force said in a release.

The new plan would alter the the Air Force's original plan to keep the F-16s at Hill until 2018. According to the service's fiscal 2017 budget documents, the original force structure plan for its fleet of aircraft called for Hill to keep its fleet of 54 F-16s until some time in fiscal year 2018.

The bases being considered to take Hill’s F-16 fighter jets are Luke Air Force Base or Tucson Air Guard Station, Arizona; Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico; or Joint Base San Antonio’s Kelly Air Guard Station, Texas.

“The Air Force is committed to a deliberate and open process to address relocating the F-16s,” said Jennifer A. Miller, deputy assistant secretary of the Air Force for Installations. “As we progress through the basing process, we will share information so interested communities are aware of what to expect,” she said in the release.

The F-16 Falcons at Hill have needed to exit the base for space reasons for quite some time: The pilots and crews at Hill have been putting the new, fifth-generation F-35 through its paces for a few years. Eventually, the base is looking to set up three full F-35 squadrons with a total of 72 aircraft by 2019.

It’s no secret the Air Force wants to increase pilot output as soon as possible given the shortage of fliers, which puts the service in “a crisis,” both James and Goldfein said.

Site surveys will begin at the interim locations next week to gather detailed information on operational requirements, infrastructure capacity, environmental considerations, and cost, the service said.

After the Air Force identifies candidate bases for the long-term, permanent solution later this year, Air Education and Training Command will “conduct site surveys at each location as applicable,” the release stated.

“Site survey teams will assess each location against operational requirements, potential impacts to existing missions, infrastructure, environmental considerations and manpower. They will also develop cost estimates to beddown the F-16s,” the statement said.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 01:14
by Jon
I've heard the new CAS squadron will be the 24th TASS. Can anyone confirm this?

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 03:47
by EOR
Jon wrote:I've heard the new CAS squadron will be the 24th TASS. Can anyone confirm this?

yes

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 03:52
by Jon
EOR wrote:
Jon wrote:I've heard the new CAS squadron will be the 24th TASS. Can anyone confirm this?

yes


Thanks EOR, and what does TASS stand for?

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 04:32
by EOR
Tactical Air Support Squadron

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 04:40
by Jon
EOR wrote:Tactical Air Support Squadron


Seemed possible, but so long since "Tactical" has been used in the USAF squadron designations. Thanks!

The 24th TASS inactivated on March 31, 1991 at Howard Air Force Base.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 11:01
by dragracingmaniac
Jon wrote:
EOR wrote:Tactical Air Support Squadron


Seemed possible, but so long since "Tactical" has been used in the USAF squadron designations. Thanks!

The 24th TASS inactivated on March 31, 1991 at Howard Air Force Base.


Well, they cant really make it Aerial Support Squadron, can they? Probably should add the "T" :P

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 13:37
by Jon
dragracingmaniac wrote:
Jon wrote:
EOR wrote:Tactical Air Support Squadron


Seemed possible, but so long since "Tactical" has been used in the USAF squadron designations. Thanks!

The 24th TASS inactivated on March 31, 1991 at Howard Air Force Base.


Well, they cant really make it Aerial Support Squadron, can they? Probably should add the "T" :P


:-D

I would have liked 24th CASS.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2016, 17:29
by slapshot!
24th a$$?

^^^ thats a weird censor.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2016, 06:36
by Jon
Anybody have any updates about this new squadron the 24th TASS? Has it officially operational yet?

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 17 Nov 2016, 19:00
by Boman
According to Air Force Magazine, this wouldn't happen until 2018

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 03 May 2017, 10:55
by gideonic
Hill Air Force Base saying goodbye to remaining F-16 fleet later this month
Last week, eight F-16s and more than 200 airmen from Hill’s 388th and 419th fighter wings deployed to Albacete Air Base in Spain, participating in a noncombat North Atlantic Treaty Organization training exercise.

Kari Tilton, 419th spokeswoman, said by the time the deployment is over on May 19, the F-16s will have flown out of the base for the final time.

“This is the last time the F-16 will deploy with the Hill designated ‘HL’ painted on its tail,” said 388th Maintenance Group commander Col. Michael Miles, in a press release.

The exercise, known as the Tactical Leadership Programme, is conducted annually and designed to increase NATO air defense capabilities by integrating several NATO-participating allies.

The two Hill fighter wings are working with air forces from 10 countries, according to the press release.

Each day, Hill F-16 pilots fly with 20 to 30 allied aircraft, fighting against a similar number of mock adversaries. Pilots and crews fly and fight with foreign aircraft in unfamiliar environments, learning to overcome differences in language and flying techniques.

The final flights are the last chapter in a Northern Utah history that started in the late 1970s.

In 1979, the 388th received its first F-16A and became the first fully operational F-16 Fighter Wing in the Air Force. In 1981, the fighter wing took the planes overseas for the first time on a mission to Norway. The 419th received its first jet in 1984 to become the Air Force’s first F-16 reserve wing.

Since those days, Hill F-16s have flown in Operation Desert Storm and deployed multiple times to Afghanistan and Iraq.

As the last remnants of Hill’s 40-year fighter fleet wrap up in Spain, the Air Force continues to send Hill’s F-16s to other bases to supplement fighter pilot training.

http://www.standard.net/Military/2017/0 ... month.html

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2017, 05:54
by Boman
88-0457 was flying with HO tailcodes during the wings last deployment to the TLP according to AFM.
To me this indicates that the ex-Hill Vipers will join the 54FG and that the new squadron likely will be 312FS rather than 24TASS.
Also don't understand why so many jets in the database have already been linked to the 24 TASS when many of these are still flying as 4FS jets?

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2017, 06:58
by air-to-air
Boman wrote:88-0457 was flying with HO tailcodes during the wings last deployment to the TLP according to AFM.
To me this indicates that the ex-Hill Vipers will join the 54FG and that the new squadron likely will be 312FS rather than 24TASS.
Also don't understand why so many jets in the database have already been linked to the 24 TASS when many of these are still flying as 4FS jets?


24th TASS is Nellis AFB based, nothing to do with Holloman. They are flying missions on a daily base at Nellis. Hill F-16s are send to Holloman, AZ ANG, SD ANG, Aviano.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2017, 08:44
by Boman
Strange that the 24th TASS is not listed under the official 57th wing units then?
http://www.nellis.af.mil/Units/57-WG/

As for the Vipers supposedly assigned to 24th TASS, just about all carry the 4FS markings and still flies with this unit, so still don't understand why these are logged as "belonging" to the 24th TASS, a still non-existing unit?

From this environmental report dated April 2017 it is fairly clear that the TASS under discussion is still in the future. It isn't even numbered yet (although 24th is a good suggestion)
http://www.nellis.af.mil/Portals/104/Do ... 201742-717

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2017, 12:28
by air-to-air
Boman wrote:Strange that the 24th TASS is not listed under the official 57th wing units then?
http://www.nellis.af.mil/Units/57-WG/

As for the Vipers supposedly assigned to 24th TASS, just about all carry the 4FS markings and still flies with this unit, so still don't understand why these are logged as "belonging" to the 24th TASS, a still non-existing unit?

From this environmental report dated April 2017 it is fairly clear that the TASS under discussion is still in the future. It isn't even numbered yet (although 24th is a good suggestion)
http://www.nellis.af.mil/Portals/104/Do ... 201742-717


It seems the unit will officially be activated in fy18, but assets, airmen and mechanics are already assigned to Nellis AFB.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2017, 12:34
by yukbil
There is a photo of 88-0457 with HO tail code on aviationcorner site.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2017, 17:41
by Boman
Thanks both.

To me it is very strange that a unit "stands up" without formal activation for 12+ months? There is no logic to it, even in budget times.
The file I linked to dated April -17 also indicates that it will take between 12-24 months to make the necessary preparations for a new squadron at Nellis, further supporting my position on this?

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2017, 07:24
by yukbil
I think you're right, Boman. What I found peculiar is that new squadron will be based on Nellis and/or Holloman, where PW powered Vipers are based, but Hill Vipers are GE powered. AFAIK, USAF never assigned both GE and PW powered Vipers to the same base on the grounds of logistics.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 00:55
by LinkF16SimDude
yukbil wrote:I think you're right, Boman. What I found peculiar is that new squadron will be based on Nellis and/or Holloman, where PW powered Vipers are based, but Hill Vipers are GE powered. AFAIK, USAF never assigned both GE and PW powered Vipers to the same base on the grounds of logistics.
Yeah. If they'd go anywhere it be Kelly for sure. Tucson supported the UAE E/F's so they'd have a legacy with GE motors. But Luke and Holloman? :shrug:

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 18:17
by ghettobird
How many of the birds are slated to join the 31st FW ?

Didn't think they would be beefing that one up any further than it already was , over there would be a physical limitation to how many birds you can actively park with a set number of HAS's

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 22:10
by Boman
yukbil wrote:I think you're right, Boman. What I found peculiar is that new squadron will be based on Nellis and/or Holloman, where PW powered Vipers are based, but Hill Vipers are GE powered. AFAIK, USAF never assigned both GE and PW powered Vipers to the same base on the grounds of logistics.



Given that 88-0457 carried HO tailcodes, the 54FG would be the first unit I know of to have both GE and PW engined squadrons.
Other than this case, you never see the USAF/ANG/AFRC mix blocks, engines and versions into the same unit.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 22:14
by Boman
ghettobird wrote:How many of the birds are slated to join the 31st FW ?


88-0462 recently transferred to the 510FS 31FW, carrying new style tail band in the process. Quite nice the new tailband actually

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 06:38
by air-to-air
On 9 February F-16CMs 88-0460, 88-0462 and 88-0521 went to Aviano. 88-0460 to 555th, 462 and 521 to 510th.
In exchange F-16DMs 90-0777, 90-0795 and 90-0796 went to Holloman on 23 February

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 13:32
by Jon
Boman wrote:
yukbil wrote:I think you're right, Boman. What I found peculiar is that new squadron will be based on Nellis and/or Holloman, where PW powered Vipers are based, but Hill Vipers are GE powered. AFAIK, USAF never assigned both GE and PW powered Vipers to the same base on the grounds of logistics.



Given that 88-0457 carried HO tailcodes, the 54FG would be the first unit I know of to have both GE and PW engined squadrons.
Other than this case, you never see the USAF/ANG/AFRC mix blocks, engines and versions into the same unit.


Maybe worth checking, but did Edwards or Eglin ever operate both motors at any point?

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 18:17
by ghettobird
Boman wrote:
ghettobird wrote:How many of the birds are slated to join the 31st FW ?


88-0462 recently transferred to the 510FS 31FW, carrying new style tail band in the process. Quite nice the new tailband actually



Any pics of this new tail band anywhere??

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2017, 06:03
by dragracingmaniac
Jon wrote:
Boman wrote:
yukbil wrote:I think you're right, Boman. What I found peculiar is that new squadron will be based on Nellis and/or Holloman, where PW powered Vipers are based, but Hill Vipers are GE powered. AFAIK, USAF never assigned both GE and PW powered Vipers to the same base on the grounds of logistics.



Given that 88-0457 carried HO tailcodes, the 54FG would be the first unit I know of to have both GE and PW engined squadrons.
Other than this case, you never see the USAF/ANG/AFRC mix blocks, engines and versions into the same unit.


Maybe worth checking, but did Edwards or Eglin ever operate both motors at any point?


Yes, at one time we had 4 different motors (GE -110, -129, PW 220E, -229) Don't know what they have now, I left Edwards 19 years ago.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2017, 16:13
by Boman
ghettobird wrote: Any pics of this new tail band anywhere??


http://www.airfighters.com/photo/192394 ... n/88-0462/

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 06 Jun 2017, 08:41
by air-to-air
89-2072/HL was transferred to Osan,. Noted in June 2017 still in full 4th FS markings.

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 19 Jul 2017, 04:26
by EOR
finally marked the first of the ten Hill jets that went to Nellis with WA codes, 88-0486 as 57 OG
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eor1/3562 ... ateposted/

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 02:01
by EOR
2nd one painted now, 89-2119 marked as the 24TASS boss bird
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eor1/3640 ... ateposted/

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 22:26
by Boman
I somehow missed the last post from Agust, but saw in Combat Aircraft the same pic, and must hence admit I was wrong!

Re: F-16 from Hill AFB to get new homes as training aircraft

Unread postPosted: 10 Apr 2018, 23:55
by Jon
Still not hearing or seeing much regarding this squadron after over 1.5 years of operations.