F-16 and Cessna collide over South Carolina

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madrat

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Unread post13 Jul 2015, 05:10

Do the radars on AMRAAM have pretty limited endurance due to cooling? Seems like fighters have all these potential sensors to use in peace-time for collision avoidance. If Sidewinders and AMRAAMs could be auxiliary sensors to track nearby traffic it could save a billion dollars in no time for $3-4 million in development costs.
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bouliult

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Unread post13 Jul 2015, 14:37

If the F-16 was flying IFR than the Radar controller on the ground should provide deconfliction from other traffic. Point is that the radars most use is Tactical and not for deconfliction. Sure you can take a look every once and a while and if you notice something maybe even lock it but that is when you are not busy flying IFR, such as approach or departure procedures. Also sometimes you are flying radar trail departures/approaches and you may fly in a radar mode that does not show other traffic. Again you can can use the radar to help you build a little SA, when it is available and when you are not to busy with Aviate Navigate Communicate....
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exfltsafety

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Unread post13 Jul 2015, 15:17

The controller on the ground would have a much easier job if the Cessna was equipped with a transponder and it was being used. I haven't seen any information one way or the other about that.
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bouliult

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Unread post13 Jul 2015, 15:26

exfltsafety wrote:The controller on the ground would have a much easier job if the Cessna was equipped with a transponder and it was being used. I haven't seen any information one way or the other about that.


Isn't that mandatory? In Europe it is...
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exfltsafety

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Unread post13 Jul 2015, 17:55

bouliult wrote:
exfltsafety wrote:The controller on the ground would have a much easier job if the Cessna was equipped with a transponder and it was being used. I haven't seen any information one way or the other about that.


Isn't that mandatory? In Europe it is...


I don't think it's mandatory everywhere in the US. I think it depends on the aircraft, altitude, and class of airspace. A Cessna 150 being operated under VFR below 10,000' and outside controlled airspace may not be required to have an operating transponder. From what I've read, the Cessna had departed a non-towered county airport shortly before the collision at 2000-3000'. But I don't know what class of airspace the collision occurred in.
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Unread post14 Jul 2015, 01:49

exfltsafety wrote:I don't think it's mandatory everywhere in the US. I think it depends on the aircraft, altitude, and class of airspace. A Cessna 150 being operated under VFR below 10,000' and outside controlled airspace may not be required to have an operating transponder. From what I've read, the Cessna had departed a non-towered county airport shortly before the collision at 2000-3000'. But I don't know what class of airspace the collision occurred in.


Because it takes so much to do a simple search...

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/PIC ... ments.aspx

All Controlled Airspace

According to the AIM, Section 4-1-19: In all cases, while in controlled airspace, each pilot operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with 14 CFR section 91.413 shall operate the transponder, including Mode C if installed, on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
Other Airspace Requirements

The following areas require the operation of a Mode C transponder:

Operations within Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace.
Operations within 30 nautical miles of the primary airport within Class B airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet msl (see airports listed below).
Operations above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B and C airspace.
Operations above 10,000 feet msl in the contiguous 48 states, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet agl.
The AIM states in Section 4-1-19(a)(3) that for airborne operations in Class G airspace, the transponder should be operating unless otherwise requested by ATC.

Above 10,000 Feet

All aircraft are required to be equipped with a Mode C transponder when flying at or above 10,000 feet msl, over the 48 contiguous states or the District of Columbia, excluding that airspace below 2,500 feet agl.
Into and Out of the United States

According to 14 CFR 99.13, no person may operate an aircraft into or out of the United States, or into, within, or across an ADIZ designated in subpart B unless operating a transponder with Mode C. Certain exemptions might apply to aircraft that were not originally certified with an engine-driven electrical system; see 99.13(d).
Exemptions

Aircraft not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or subsequently have not been certified with such a system installed, balloons, or gliders may conduct operations:

In the airspace within 30 nautical miles of the listed airports as long as operations are conducted:

Outside of Class A, B, and C airspace.
Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet msl, whichever is lower.
Above 10,000 feet msl (excluding airspace above the lateral limits of Class B and C airspace).

ATC Authorized Deviations

According to 14 CFR 91.215(d), requests for deviations must be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace within the time periods specified as follows:

For operation of an aircraft with an operating transponder but without operating automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability, the request may be made at any time.
For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request may be made at any time.
For operation of an aircraft that is not equipped with a transponder, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation.

Flying into a Mode C Veil Without a Transponder

For flying into a Mode C veil without an operable transponder, the pilot needs to telephone the appropriate radar facility for the Class B airspace and ask for permission to make the flight. Upon agreeing to conditions (including direction of flight and altitude), the pilot will be given a code number that he will mention to the controller upon initial radio contact. This is the same procedure that a pilot with an inoperative transponder/encoder would use to fly in or out of the Mode C-veil airports for avionics repair.

The situation may be slightly different if the pilot is landing at a satellite Class D (towered controlled) airport within the veil but outside of Class B airspace. The approval is still given by the controlling radar facility via telephone. The radar facility may still issue the code number but may only require the pilot to contact the tower in the Class D airspace.

NOTE: You should not expect approvals at the busiest of Class B airports during their peak times or under difficult weather conditions, but if this telephone procedure can expand the utilization of your aircraft occasionally, then by all means, phone to find if you can "fit into" the system.
Transponder Tests and Inspections

According to 14 CFR 91.413, a transponder may not be used for the above purposes unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of FAR Part 43.

If a transponder is installed or the maintenance of a transponder may introduce errors, the transponder must be inspected and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix E, of FAR Part 43. The tests and inspections must be conducted by a properly equipped repair station certified in accordance with 91.415(c)(1), the holder of a continuous airworthiness maintenance program under Part 121 or 135, or the manufacturer of the aircraft on which the transponder to be tested is installed, if the transponder was installed by the manufacturer.
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exfltsafety

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Unread post14 Jul 2015, 03:42

checksixx wrote: Because it takes so much to do a simple search...


Yeah, I saw your reference, too. But at the bottom it said "Updated Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:09:27 AM". So your simple search came up with almost 9 year old information. Is it still accurate? Maybe. Why don't you do another simple search of the FAR's and let us know?
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checksixx

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Unread post17 Jul 2015, 05:03

exfltsafety wrote:
checksixx wrote: Because it takes so much to do a simple search...


Yeah, I saw your reference, too. But at the bottom it said "Updated Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:09:27 AM". So your simple search came up with almost 9 year old information. Is it still accurate? Maybe. Why don't you do another simple search of the FAR's and let us know?


Ugh...I hate lazy...here you go. Last updated in 2014. Section 4-1-20 of the AIM. Page 187 of the PDF.

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... ia/aim.pdf
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durahawk

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Unread post17 Jul 2015, 14:37

So your simple search came up with almost 9 year old information. Is it still accurate? Maybe.


Heh, this gave me a bit of a chuckle. U.S. aviation regs are about as archaic and stagnant as the come. Sure they add new ones all the time, but it quite literarily takes an act of congress in some cases to get the FAA to budge on the ones already in the books.
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exfltsafety

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Unread post17 Jul 2015, 17:05

Thank you, checksixx, for so graciously providing the precise answer to bouliult's question.
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checksixx

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Unread post17 Jul 2015, 20:04

exfltsafety wrote:Thank you, checksixx, for so graciously providing the precise answer to bouliult's question.


No problem at all.
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Unread post19 Jul 2015, 02:46

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviat ... 2207&key=2


NTSB Identification: ERA15FA259B
14 CFR Armed Forces
Accident occurred Tuesday, July 07, 2015 in Moncks Corner, SC
Aircraft: LOCKHEED-MARTIN F-16CM, registration: 96-0085
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
On July 7, 2015, at 1100 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 150M, N3601V, and a Lockheed-Martin F-16CM, operated by the U.S. Air Force (USAF), collided in midair near Moncks Corner, South Carolina. The Cessna was destroyed during the collision, and both the private pilot and passenger were fatally injured. The damaged F-16 continued to fly for an additional 3 minutes until the pilot activated the airplane's ejection system. The F-16 was destroyed following the subsequent collision with terrain and post-impact fire, while the pilot landed safely and was uninjured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the Cessna, while the F-16 was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan. The Cessna departed from Berkley County Airport (MKS), Moncks Corner, South Carolina, at 1057, and was destined for Grand Strand Airport (CRE), North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; the personal flight was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The F-16 had departed from Shaw Air Force Base (SSC), Sumter, South Carolina about 1020.

According to the USAF, after departing from SSC, the F-16 proceeded to Myrtle Beach International Airport (MYR), Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where the pilot conducted two practice instrument approaches before continuing the flight to Charleston Air Force Base/International Airport (CHS), Charleston, South Carolina. According to preliminary air traffic control (ATC) radar and voice communication data provided by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the F-16 pilot contacted the approach controller at CHS about 1052 and requested to perform a practice tactical air navigation system (TACAN) instrument approach to runway 15. The controller subsequently instructed the F-16 pilot to fly a heading of 260 degrees to intercept the final approach course. At 1055, the controller instructed the F-16 pilot to descend from his present altitude of 6,000 feet to 1,600 feet. About that time, the F-16 was located about 34 nautical miles northeast of CHS.

At 1057:41, a radar target displaying a visual flight rules transponder code of 1200, and later correlated to be the accident Cessna, appeared in the vicinity of the departure end of runway 23 at MKS, at an indicated altitude of 200 feet. The Cessna continued its climb, and began tracking generally southeast over the next 3 minutes. For the duration of its flight, the pilot of the Cessna did not contact CHS approach control, nor was he required to do so. At 1100:18, the controller advised the pilot of the F-16, "traffic 12 o'clock, 2 miles, opposite direction, 1,200 [feet altitude] indicated, type unknown." The F-16 pilot responded and advised the controller that he was "looking" for the traffic. At 1100:26, the controller advised the F-16 pilot, "turn left heading 180 if you don't have that traffic in sight." The pilot responded by asking, "confirm 2 miles?" Eight seconds later, the controller stated, "if you don't have that traffic in sight turn left heading 180 immediately." Over the next 18 seconds, the track of the F-16 began turning southerly.

At 1100:49, the radar target of the F-16 was located 1/2 nautical mile northeast of the Cessna, at an indicated altitude of 1,500 feet, and was on an approximate track of 215 degrees. At that time, the Cessna reported an indicated altitude of 1,400 feet, and was established on an approximate track of 110 degrees. At 1100:52 the controller advised the F-16 pilot, "traffic passing below you 1,400 feet." At 1100:54, the radar reported altitude of the F-16 remained at 1,500 feet and no valid altitude information was returned for the radar target associated with the Cessna. At that point the targets were laterally separated by about 1,000 feet. No further radar targets were received from the Cessna, and the next radar target for the F-16 was not received until 1101:13. At 1101:19, the F-16 pilot transmitted a distress call, and no subsequent transmissions were received. Air traffic control radar continued to track the F-16 as it proceeded on a roughly southerly track, and after descending to an indicated altitude of 300 feet, radar contact was lost at 1103:17 in the vicinity of the F-16 crash site.

The wreckage of the Cessna was recovered in the vicinity of its last observed radar target, over the west branch of the Cooper River. Components from both airplanes were spread over an area to the north and west of that point, extending for approximately 1,200 feet. The largest portions of the Cessna's airframe included a relatively intact portion of the fuselage aft of the main landing gear, and the separate left and right wings, all of which were within 500 feet northwest of the airplane's final radar-observed position. Portions of the cabin interior, instrument panel, fuel system, and engine firewall were found distributed throughout the site. The engine, propeller, and nose landing gear assembly were not recovered. The lower aft engine cowling of the F-16 was also recovered in the immediate vicinity of the Cessna's aft fuselage, while the F-16's engine augmenter was recovered about 1,500 feet southwest. Small pieces of the F-16's airframe were also distributed throughout the accident site.

Both of the Cessna's wings displayed uniform leading edge crush damage throughout their spans that was oriented aft and upward. Paint transfer and rub markings oriented in a direction from the airplane's left to right were observed on the upper forward surfaces of both wings. Both fuel tanks were ruptured, and evidence of heat damage and paint blistering were observed on the upper surface of the right wing. Flight control continuity was traced through overload-type cable separations from the cabin area to each flight control surface. Measurement of the pitch trim actuator showed a position consistent with a 3 to 4-degree deflection of the tab in the nose down direction, and measurement of the flap actuator showed a position consistent with the flaps having been in the retracted position.

The F-16 wreckage site was located about 6 nautical miles south of the Cessna wreckage site. The F-16 wreckage path was about 700 feet long and oriented roughly 215 degrees, with portions of the airframe distributed along the wreckage path. The wreckage displayed significant ground impact and post-impact fire-related damage. A crash-survivable memory unit (CSMU) was recovered from the wreckage, and the digital flight control system seat data recorder (DFLCS SDR) was recovered from the airplane's ejection seat. Both memory units were forwarded to the airframe manufacturer for data extraction under the supervision of an NTSB Vehicle Recorder Specialist.

The weather conditions reported at MKS at 1055 included calm winds, 10 statute miles visibility, scattered clouds at 2,600 feet agl, a temperature of 30 degrees C, a dew point of 22 degrees C, and an altimeter setting of 30.15 inches of mercury.
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hondagl1800

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Unread post19 Jul 2015, 14:19

According to the USAF, after departing from SSC, the F-16 proceeded to Myrtle Beach International Airport (MYR), Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where the pilot conducted two practice instrument approaches before continuing the flight to Charleston Air Force Base/International Airport (CHS), Charleston, South Carolina.

http://flic.kr/p/waAmek
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JetTest

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Unread post19 Jul 2015, 17:19

And you felt the need to repost that direct quote from the above report, why?
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Unread post19 Jul 2015, 22:02

i'm not smart enough to even begin to formulate what might have happened so I ask the subject matter experts here to shed some light on what the following NTSB prelim means to you:

On July 7, 2015, at 1100 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 150M, N3601V, and a Lockheed-Martin F-16CM, operated by the U.S. Air Force (USAF), collided in midair near Moncks Corner, South Carolina.
The Cessna was destroyed during the collision, and both the private pilot and passenger were fatally injured.
The damaged F-16 continued to fly for an additional 3 minutes until the pilot activated the airplane's ejection system.
The F-16 was destroyed following the subsequent collision with terrain and post-impact fire, while the pilot landed safely and was uninjured.
Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the Cessna, while the F-16 was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan.

According to the USAF, after departing from SSC, the F-16 proceeded to Myrtle Beach International Airport, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where the pilot conducted two practice instrument approaches before continuing the flight to Charleston Air Force Base/International Airport, Charleston, South Carolina.

The report also states that at 10:57, a radar target displayed information later correlated to be the Cessna in the vicinity of the departure end of the runway at Berkeley County Airport.

The Cessna did not contact Charleston Air Force Base/ International Airport, and was not required to do so.

At 1100:26, the controller advised the F-16 pilot, "turn left heading 180 if you don't have that traffic in sight." The pilot responded by asking, "confirm 2 miles?" Eight seconds later, the controller stated, "if you don't have that traffic in sight turn left heading 180 immediately." Over the next 18 seconds, the track of the F-16 began turning southerly.
At 1100:49, the radar target of the F-16 was located 1/2 nautical mile northeast of the Cessna, at an indicated altitude of 1,500 feet, and was on an approximate track of 215 degrees. At that time, the Cessna reported an indicated altitude of 1,400 feet, and was established on an approximate track of 110 degrees.
At 1100:52 the controller advised the F-16 pilot, "traffic passing below you 1,400 feet." At 1100:54, the radar reported altitude of the F-16 remained at 1,500 feet and no valid altitude information was returned for the radar target associated with the Cessna.
At 1101:19, the F-16 pilot transmitted a distress call, and no subsequent transmissions were received. Air traffic control radar continued to track the F-16 as it proceeded on a roughly southerly track, and after descending to an indicated altitude of 300 feet, radar contact was lost at 1103:17 in the vicinity of the F-16 crash site.

The report confirms the wreckage of the Cessna was recovered over the west branch of the Cooper River. Components from both airplanes were strewn over the area to the north and west of that point. The largest portion found was the Cessna's airframe, including a relatively intact portion of the fuselage aft of the main landing gear, and both the left and right wing.

The lower aft engine of the F-16 was recovered near the Cessna's aft fuselage.
The F-16 wreckage site was located about 6 nautical miles south of the Cessna wreckage site.
The wreckage displayed significant ground impact and post-impact fire-related damage.
Weather conditions reported at MKS at 1055 included calm wings, 10 statute miles visibility, scattered clouds, and a temperature of 30 degrees C.
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