Belly landing RNLAF F-16AM J-640@Charleroi 8 April

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bouliult

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Unread post19 Apr 2011, 05:32

exfltsafety wrote:
I Think you'r full of sh*t ...

You shouldn't comment on things you don't understand.


Yeezzzz Varkvet lighten up will you!! I actually know something about the jet and suspect that it is a case of too early gear retraction. That's also why the main doors are still open: first the main gears will retract forward and the doors never got the chance to close. Also be aware that before the pilot would land with an unsafe gear it would be really weird that all three gear are unsafe.. He would also try to blow the gear down with alternate gear or by pulling G's. If he should decide to land with unsafe gear he would try to retract the gear again by resetting his alternate extension....Unless he had a B system failure... But if he had a B sys fail he would probably opted to fly back to Volkel because it is a land as soon as practicle and he would probably try to land at his homeplate unless he had not enough fuel. So although it's a pitty and relative easy to prevent, human mistakes do happen...

Even if somebody writes something stupid (which Gonzo didn't) he does not need t o be treated like that.
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VarkVet

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Unread post23 Apr 2011, 06:57

bouliult wrote:
exfltsafety wrote:
I Think you'r full of sh*t ...

You shouldn't comment on things you don't understand.


Yeezzzz Varkvet lighten up will you!! I actually know something about the jet and suspect that it is a case of too early gear retraction. That's also why the main doors are still open: first the main gears will retract forward and the doors never got the chance to close. Also be aware that before the pilot would land with an unsafe gear it would be really weird that all three gear are unsafe.. He would also try to blow the gear down with alternate gear or by pulling G's. If he should decide to land with unsafe gear he would try to retract the gear again by resetting his alternate extension....Unless he had a B system failure... But if he had a B sys fail he would probably opted to fly back to Volkel because it is a land as soon as practicle and he would probably try to land at his homeplate unless he had not enough fuel. So although it's a pitty and relative easy to prevent, human mistakes do happen...

Even if somebody writes something stupid (which Gonzo didn't) he does not need t o be treated like that.


My bad and I apologize … everyone has an opinion when things like this happen, because at the end of the day no one wants to see a destroyed Viper! I based my ASS-U-Me-tion on the report that the pilot had gear problems!
Sorry Gonzo :cheers:
Anyone have a link to a mishap report where a GE powered jet fell back to the ground when the gear handle was raised too soon?
My eyes have seen the glory of the Lord and the esthetics of the Flightline
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outlaw162

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Unread post23 Apr 2011, 16:56

The Tucson Guard Block15 “B” model that slid down the runway at Libby AAF, Fort Huachuca was of course P&W powered.

But the point is that little of that power was being used when the gear handle was placed to the up position.

Apparently due to false sensations, the student attempted to pull the aircraft into the air in IDLE and raised the gear at a point, which under usual circumstances would have been considered normal. (You can pull the gear fairly quick on a touch and go in mil.) But the same thing would have happened with General Electric power in idle.

As the thing was coming to a halt, the IP asked the student:

“Why the **** did you do that?”

The student’s appropriately humble answer was:

“I don’t know.”

No links, but I talk to the IP from time to time.

OL

(Of course this Charleroi situation may be different)
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exfltsafety

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Unread post23 Apr 2011, 17:36

Don't have any links to previous events; but, this is not all that uncommon. Lots of variables like temp of the day, gross weight, etc; but, even in MIL, putting the gear handle up too soon, which also causes the trailing edge flaps to retract, can cause the jet to sink back to the runway. Nozzle scrapes, centerline tank scrapes, and worse have occurred. One of the more dramatic ones was a centerline tank scrape that resulted in a fuel leak and fire. The pilot subsequently jettisoned the tank and landed ok.
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rnlaf-f-16-sparky

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Unread post23 Jun 2011, 09:14

Bonzo is right there is a bump in the runway so the plane lost it's weight on wheel and the gear retracted wile coming back on the ground behind the bump.
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guardbaby

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Unread post23 Jun 2011, 22:58

outlaw162 wrote:I believe there were 2 incidents in the 80's during touch and goes in "B" models where the trainee in the front seat actually moved the gear handle to 'up' before pushing the throttle forward from idle.

Both aircraft ended up coming to a halt on their belly. I know for sure one was at Fort Huachuca and I think the other was at Nellis or Indian Springs. Habit patterns and I think they determined it had something to do with a false sense of acceleration on the runway and that cockpit noise level doesn't change much on T&G's anyway.

I know the IP at Fort Huachuca. Before he could blink the aircraft settled and they were along for the ride (slide). :shock:

I want to say the one at Nellis was a T-bird trainee but I'm not sure about that.

Of course this may not be the case here but they did mention T&G's and as Ex-FS says the aircraft does look like the retraction cycle could have been initiated.

OL

edit: Actually the one at Fort Huachuca had wing tanks so they didn't quite make it to the belly.


If I remember correctly, didn't the IP go for cataract surgery shortly thereafter? HD was his initials...I believe those words came straight from his mouth after he retired (sitting in TAGRA). Seems that is what convinced him to get the surgery since he didn't see things clearly in the cockpit.
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outlaw162

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Unread post24 Jun 2011, 04:04

That's the guy.

He was a supremely skillful fighter pilot and instructor, but his eyes were never that great, even before any problems.

But he probably couldn't have prevented it anyway, even with a couple of 20/12 eyeballs like mine.

OL

(Students WERE the "enemy".) :D
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guardbaby

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Unread post24 Jun 2011, 07:15

For me, pilots were the enemy....*grin*. He was a top notch pilot and person though. He was one guy I had much respect for....
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