How could you make the F-16 equal to Su-37 in agility?

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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Guysmiley

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Unread post10 Aug 2005, 17:26

MATV was never considered for operational use because the engine mounts and airframe couldn't handle the stresses being put on them and still have an acceptable airframe life.

The real bottom line is that a truly effective BVR missile combined with AEW (like, oh, say an E-3 AWACS) makes any amount of agility moot. Unless the Russians can (snicker snicker) perfect their "plasma stealth". Then of course you just need to add a "home on ball of plasma" mode to the AMRAAM seeker.
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EriktheF16462

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Unread post10 Aug 2005, 18:06

Dig a hole in the ground and put the Viper there just like all the Su-37s are. They would then be equal. I find comparing a real fighter to a dead prototype a huge waste.
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ACSheva

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Unread post10 Aug 2005, 23:56

I find comparing a real fighter to a dead prototype a huge waste.


Ok, try comaring the Viper to a Su 30SMK :roll: , which is an operational fighter with the Ruskis. Very similar to the 37 in manueverability.

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cru

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Unread post11 Aug 2005, 08:24

AC Sheva, you'r obsessed with the Su... there is no Su 30 SMK "operational fighter with the Ruskis". The only MKs are the Indian MKIs... The Russain upgrade is called Su 27 SM. There are no Su 30 S**. There are only Su 30 M*(*) or Su 30 K*
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boff180

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Unread post11 Aug 2005, 10:22

Su-30SMK is actually one of the multiple "other" designations the Su-27SM... they are the same aircraft... Sukhoi calls them one thing then the Russian AF calls them another (Su-27SM being the Russian AF designation)

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ACSheva

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Unread post11 Aug 2005, 19:59

Russian Air Forces use "intelligent" airplanes

07/13/2005 18:43

In the end of the last year, Russia's Air Forces received 25 new fighter planes Su-27-30 SKM (modernised). This year there will be at least 20 more of them. As the engineers and military officials comment, these fighter jets would become the first step towards switching the Russian Army to the fifth generation jetfighter ("Izvestia" information)

The main thing that makes Su-27 SKM stand out from the rest of the Army's Su's is that this new machine can work on both air and ground targets with the same ease. The entire specter of both non-controlled and controlled type of bombs is used for this, plus various aviation missiles. The jetfighter can use all this arsenal with no regard to neither time of the day nor to the weather conditions: pilot can drive his machine and also do bombing with the help of special equipment, explained Igor Demin, the chief constructor of "OKB Sukhoi".

"Human just needs to press "Fire" button in the right time. Yet another know-how is the radio location station of the jetfighter, which can track not only the air targets, but also the moving ground ones", he added.

Su-27 SKM is not very different from the normal Su jetfighters by appearance, however its cabin was seriously modernised. Near its usual analogue arrow meters three LCD monitors were placed, they display all flight and combat information.

The constructors comment this was made to gradually teach pilots they can observe the situation not only by arrows' movement, but by display's data too. Their greatest convenience is that all information can be found in one place.

The first Su-27 SKM will be received by Lipetsk, Kalinka, Kubinka and by many other aviation center pilot bases, Russia's military aviation elite. Now they are on duty in Russian base Kant, Kyrgyzstan.

They have to fulfill the last condition to allow wide switch from old Su's to the new ones: prepare documentation and final report on usage of this new machine in various climate and weather conditions. This has to be done in short time: Su-27 SKM is planned to be supplied to the forces massively in the second half of 2005. Navy will have its own SKMK version to follow soon after.

This year, "Sukhoi" is to start work on creation of a new, revolutionary machine, Su-35.

In 2004 "OKB Sukhoi" is starting experimental and construction works on new revolutionary jetfighter, Su-35. This machine is to become a bridge to the fifth generation jetfighters.

Su-35 will not have any analogue, arrow controls and monitors. Instead of the three LCDs there will be 2 big ones. To maximise the area of information displayed, their screens would have windows, similar to Picture-in-Picture technology in modern TVs.

Additionally, the most important of flight and combat information will be displayed in the pilot's helmet. This will free the pilot from constant need to look at the cabin's monitors before him, so that he is able to move his head around, visually evaluating the situation.

Moreover, Su-35 will be also harder to see for radiolocation stations. This can be done by using special radio waves-swallowing finish, a new paint of the jetfighter in fact. And certainly, the most serious developments to happen with engines and the main computer. They would finally become one whole.

Su-35 engines will have greater power and elasticity, which would give the machine more speed and maneuverability. Hydrodynamic controls of the power engines are to be changed to electrical. Constructors claim this would not only save space and weight, but also would allow a "parallel" control of the machine.

What it means in practice, is that the pilot's role will be less notable. The computer will be deciding what speeds and which regimes the machine is to approach targets, at which moment the pilot can be allowed to use weapons. Human will not be able to make any wrong decisions: the computer would simply switch off his controls and advice him what is the fault.

Demin believes that if the fifth generation jetfighters would still have pilots, the next generation planes will do without them. Yet some can not agree with him, including Givi Dzandzagava, President of "Technocomplex" scientific & producing center uniting 16 companies working on various equipment of Su-27 SKM.

"While the intellect level of the jetfighters' on-board equipment will be very high, we still have to leave for human an opportunity to make combat decisions at the top of the technical abilities of machines and weapons. A task given can be completed even at the cost of one's own life. Decisions on weapons use and responsibility following lies on human and no one else"

The fifth generation jetfighter is machine with brains and eyes

Dzandzagava goes on: "Today we can only generally visualise the cabin of the fifth level fighter planes, and it would resemble Su-35's cabin very much"

What is known for certain: displays of the cabin and of the pilot's helmet will feature much more information. Analogue scales with arrows and numbers will disappear for good, all the information will be in visual form. Like in prestige cars: symbols and icons.

Su-35 on-board computer processors receive information from 150 various antennas and devices, placed all over the jetfighter's body.

The fifth level airplane will have many times more such "feelings". It will be legible to say that new jetfighter feels the situation with its skin. Today there is already a task set to raise intellectual potential of the on-board computer.

Su-27 SKM tactical and technical characteristics:

Year official approval as an army machine: 2002. Maximal speed, km/h: at low heights: 1400, at the height: 2430. Practical height ceiling, meters: 18,000. Maximum flight distance, km: 3680. Maximum exploitation overload: 9. Crew: 1. Weapons: automatic one-barrel 30mm gun GS-301 (1,500 shots/min, 150 bullets). Maximum combat load: 8000 kg. The chassis' 10 bases can be equipped with "air-air" and "air-ground" rockets, and various non-controlled and correctable bombs.

"Izvestia"



Ok Cru, I was off by 3 digits :doh: .

But the point is still that the 27 SMK is the newest fighter from Sukhoi. The 37, and this SMK are very similar jets. When the SMK was presented at LeBurgeot last summer, it was presented as the SU30SMK. By the Russians themselves. I get confused myself with their designations also.

Shev :D
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cru

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Unread post12 Aug 2005, 07:26

I cannot but agreee. I believe that Suhoi executives themselves get confused with such many vatriants.

However, the SKM is not so advanced as you might believe. The only advances are on A-G area. The Russians finally manages to achieve what US fighters (F16 especially) did with the C model, at the end of 80' :lol: :lol:
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EriktheF16462

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Unread post12 Aug 2005, 12:44

Lets see, Block 52+ with HMCS, Link and other bells and whistles or a Su whatever that is in service right now. Viper hands down!
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ACSheva

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Unread post13 Aug 2005, 00:06

Cru, maybe you are correct.

I just dont think that its fair for us to compare a 16 width a 37.
Su has more radar, weapons, range, power, tvc,maneuverability, etc. The SKM is actually ahead of our late 80s equipment, do you really think that they are so behind.

Here are some things which are upgraded on the SKM. First the pilot's original helmet-mounted sighting system is replaced by a new Sura KMUB unit. The SKM also has an upgraded IRST with a collimated designator, and a new L150MK radar homing and warning system can be used to cue up to 21 anti-radar missiles, as well as air to air. Did we have that capability in late 80s.

Air-to-ground capabilities are thus considerably expanded, adding compatibility with a wider selection of precision-guided air-to-surface bombs and missiles, including the Kh-29T/TE, Kh-29L, Kh-31A and Kh-31-33-35HSP missiles and KAB 500Kr and -1500-600-900Kr bombs. Also with the Israelis providing avionics for the jet, its going to be a very solid fighter. Definitely not a late 80s jet.

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ottleymonkey

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Unread post14 Aug 2005, 07:08

how about an F-16 with forward sweft wing and multi axis thrust vectoring? A mini berkut. Sigh, may be nasa could reconfigure X-29 with VT.
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cru

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Unread post15 Aug 2005, 11:03

Here are some things which are upgraded on the SKM. First the pilot's original helmet-mounted sighting system is replaced by a new Sura KMUB unit. The SKM also has an upgraded IRST with a collimated designator, and a new L150MK radar homing and warning system can be used to cue up to 21 anti-radar missiles, as well as air to air. Did we have that capability in late 80s.


AC this is a joke. Even the dedicatted EA6 cannot cue 21 ARH missiles!

Air-to-ground capabilities are thus considerably expanded, adding compatibility with a wider selection of precision-guided air-to-surface bombs and missiles, including the Kh-29T/TE, Kh-29L, Kh-31A and Kh-31-33-35HSP missiles and KAB 500Kr and -1500-600-900Kr bombs. Also with the Israelis providing avionics for the jet, its going to be a very solid fighter. Definitely not a late 80s jet.


Aslong as ther is no GPS+datalink+iir seeker A-G weapons, that exactly what US had in the 80'! (laser guided or tv guided)
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