F-16C versus LAVI

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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faassen

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Unread post04 Mar 2004, 22:17

I have always wondered which aircraft is better. I know the decision to cancel the LAVI was truly political and they got F-16C/D block 40's instead but the question stil remains would the LAVI be a better aeroplane, a better fighter, a better CAS/BIAS or a better interdictor?

The LAVI is still my favourate cancelled plane.

Anyone has an opinion or rapports about this question?
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Pumpkin

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Unread post05 Mar 2004, 00:28

hi faassen! :D

I guess we can conclude the LAVI indeed out performed the F-16 then. And I was reading this article on the LAVI in respond to your thread, taking a closer look at the design concept. I must say that I am very impressed on the cancelled programme. The potential growth of the platform sounds promising.

I am not sure if it is fair to make the analogue, taking the LAVI as the python3, and the F-16 as the AIM-9. Imagine the python3 was cancelled in favour of the AIM-9, you would not have realised the potential growth of the technology as of today python 4/5. And the AIM9 has taken so many evolutions to reach today AIM-9X.

cheers,
Last edited by Pumpkin on 04 Feb 2005, 18:48, edited 2 times in total.
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DeepSpace

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Unread post05 Mar 2004, 09:51

Pumpkin, I totally agree with you. The LAVI had a very good potential. We all need to remember that great amount of today's Israeli avionics, installed on the Baz 2000 (Israeli upgrade to IAF's F-15's),F-15I's, all F-16's and the Kurnass 2000 (F-4E upgrade of IAI for the IAF), are developed from the original Lavi's avionics.

You also correct about the Python. If the Lavi wasn't cancelled and it was getting the Python 4/5 you were getting a pretty dangerous fighter. If the Python 3, or even the Shafrir 1/2 (the missiles that the Python 3 was developed from) were cancelled, we could never know their potential.
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kosem

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Unread post05 Mar 2004, 20:50

Lavi was cancelled as Israeli fighter, but according to "Friday Studio", a TV program on Israeli Channel 2, the Lavi is know as F10 in one of the Far East air forces (I don't remember which one).
IAF is inside my SOUL!!!
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Phoenix

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Unread post05 Mar 2004, 21:29

The PRC is developing the J-10, which is believed to be based on the Lavi.
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kc123

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Unread post17 Mar 2004, 23:58

Phoenix wrote:The PRC is developing the J-10, which is believed to be based on the Lavi.


New Chinese Lavi Pic
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ACSheva

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Unread post04 Feb 2005, 02:50

Interesting, that front of the jet kind of looks like the Russian 1.42. What the...?

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Wildcat

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Unread post04 Feb 2005, 17:55

Actually, I would say that it rather looks like the Ye-8, a Mikoyan and Gurevitch (MiG) interceptor. Two protoypes were built and flew in 1962, but the first one crashed and the program was soon cancelled. So, nothing new about the shape of the Chinese plane :wink:
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FOD

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Unread post16 Feb 2005, 19:46

AFAIK LAVI was cancelled due to financial, rather than political issues.

The Lavi was ( and maybe is?) one of the most manouverable planes due to full delta wings , front "pitch wheels" (pardon me for my bad vocabulary) and a stong engine.It also had revolutionary electronic systems.

But the project was carried by the government , and the costs exceeded any reasonable expectations.
I remember reading this quote "I don't want to be responsible for ruining the economy just to create a home-made F-16"

The eventual availability of relatively cheap F-16 completely shut the program down.

From my point of view, the flaws and mainenance of F-16 consts now much more than the program completion then.But I'm off topic, sorry for that.
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ACSheva

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Unread post17 Feb 2005, 01:52

Actually, I would say that it rather looks like the Ye-8, a Mikoyan and Gurevitch (MiG) interceptor.


You're probably right Wildcat. It does look like their old prototype MIG,and like their 1.42. This is probably some knock off jet, from many different planes. Here is a link to the picture of the Russian YE-8.

http://www2.odn.ne.jp/flip-around/milit ... /ye8_4.jpg

AC
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toan

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Unread post07 Mar 2005, 08:38

The Lavi is a fighter with the empty weight of 7,000 kg class, a little lighter then F-16 A/B; and its engine is PW1120 turbofan with the maximum A/B thrust of 20,000 Ib class, which is lower than the F-16A/B's engine, too.

According to the Lavi's aerodynamic design, weight, and the engine's thrust, Lavi's general flight performance should be roughly equal to F-16 A/B theoretically.

The capability of Lavi that is really amazing should be its maximal external weapon load: 7,200 kg!! It's the only jet fighter I have known in the world that could carry the amount of weapon load which is heavier than the fighter's empty weight.
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toan

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Unread post07 Mar 2005, 08:41

The Lavi is a fighter with the empty weight of 7,000 kg class, a little lighter then F-16 A/B; and its engine is PW1120 turbofan with the maximum A/B thrust of 20,000 Ib class, which is lower than the F-16A/B's engine, too.

According to the Lavi's aerodynamic design, weight, and the engine's thrust, Lavi's general flight performance should be roughly equal to F-16 A/B theoretically.

The capability of Lavi that is really amazing should be its maximal external weapon load: 7,200 kg!! It's the only jet fighter I have known in the world that could carry the amount of weapon load which is heavier than the fighter's empty weight.
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JanHas

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Unread post07 Mar 2005, 10:35

What I heared about the J-10 is that it is very crude on the inside. From the outside it might look nice. The inside.. notting to be afraid off..
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Pathfinder

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Unread post26 Mar 2005, 06:05

JanHas wrote:What I heared about the J-10 is that it is very crude on the inside. From the outside it might look nice. The inside.. notting to be afraid off..


Sorry for not believing your word for it, but I would rather have you provide a reliable source to back your statements. When an AC was based on U.S and Israeli contents to begin with, I wouldn't dismiss it as nothing to be afraid of. If this J-10 is in fact as capable as the F-16 block 50s as the Chinese claim, then it poses a significant threat to U.S airforce assets in Asia.
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grss1982

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Unread post29 Jun 2005, 01:34

As we're always talking about the Lavi, how about some pictures:
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ ... /Lavi.html
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