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MiG-29 vs F-16

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 13:13
by KarimAbdoun
The F-16 has proven itself to be one of the most remarkable piece of equipment flying in the sky, but what about its Soviet chief rival Mig-29?

What will be the concequenses of these 2 planes meeting head-to-head?

Also who is better? Fster? and had a better history than the other?

What are your opinions?

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 13:47
by LinkF16SimDude
Head-to-head? I'm partial but I have to go with the Viper. Some Fulcrum drivers say setting up weapons employment in the Fulcrum is a bit cumbersome (switches to flip, knobs to turn, etc), unlike the Viper's Dogfight/Missile Override "flip-n-fight" function that buys you a couple of extra seconds or more in an engagement.

On the flip side American pilots who have gotten Fulcrum backseat rides have stated it's manueverability is on-par with the Hornet (which is a compliment to a hydro-mechanically operated FCS) and coupled with the "look-n-launch" A-A targeting system (I'm full of catch phrases today! :wink:) it could pose problems for the Viper in a close-in knife fight. This will be effectively negated with the fielding of HMCS and AIM-9X in the Viper and F-35 fleets.


In any case it bears repeating: in any close match-up between evenly matched airframes the deciding factors will almost always be who sees who first and the skill and training of the pilots involved.

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 13:51
by Pumpkin
Hi Karim,

comparsion was never my cup of tea. I thought one must really be equipped with the best knowledge on the 2 subjects and agree upon a base line of criterions, and to finally come to an unbiased comparsion. Not a very easy task.

Having said this, I hope the following article is able to satisfy most if not all of your queries on the 2 platforms. The article was documented some time back. Hence the latest blocks might not be taken into account. In addition, it is a shame, the links referenced are not longer active.

enjoy, :D

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 13:59
by KarimAbdoun
Thanks, that's a nice article!

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 17:54
by awetsock
Pumpkin wrote:Hi Karim,

Having said this, I hope the following article is able to satisfy most if not all of your queries on the 2 platforms. The article was documented some time back.
enjoy, :D


I have to disagree with the article…pictures and video speak a thousand words. We deployed to Denmark to fly against some West German MIG 29’s and the following video speaks 1000 words…The video was made some years back, but the Viper has become nothing but better...

http://www.f16techs.com/greatest_hits.htm

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 18:38
by Pumpkin
hi wetsock,

nice extract of the HUD recording. Some pretty cool EEGS symbology!!

As for the article, I was merely making a reference. 8) Not really advocating the content. If you have noticed, it is a .ru site. I guess I will leave for the experts on this forum to decide, if the webmaster has presented an unbiased writing.

cheers, :D

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 19:17
by awetsock
Pumpkin

I am by far no expert...I can only comment on what I see...I was merely giving my .02 worth. I am curious to see what other feedback comes up... :D

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 19:21
by habu2
Personally I think these A vs B threads are pretty useless. If you want to form an opinion about such comparisons, do some research first. This article is a good first step: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... 2a_95.html

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 19:52
by LinkF16SimDude
awetsock wrote:
I have to disagree with the article…pictures and video speak a thousand words. We deployed to Denmark to fly against some West German MIG 29’s and the following video speaks 1000 words…The video was made some years back, but the Viper has become nothing but better...

http://www.f16techs.com/greatest_hits.htm


Outstanding! 8) Especially at about 5:30-ish: pipper on the cockpit...you're DEAD!! :twisted: You actualy get paid to do that? :wink:

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 21:02
by awetsock
habu2 wrote:Personally I think these A vs B threads are pretty useless. If you want to form an opinion about such comparisons, do some research first. This article is a good first step: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives ... 2a_95.html


What better way to research than to pull the AVTR tapes out and watch the video 15 minutes after it was filmed? There is nothing better than hands on research... :wink:

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 22:31
by Pumpkin
habu2, I guess what I enjoy reading and can't agree more was Rose Smith's Introduction. Where he mentioned about pilot skill/training, and the customised technical strength, export version can provide, in a decisive fight. Hence we can never have 1 conclusive comparsion.

The two different outcomes of the RMAF Mig 29 in simulated BVR air combats with 2 different platforms clearly indicated this.
[1] RMAF Mig-29 Vs RAAF F-18
[2] RMAF Mig-29 Vs RAF Sea Harriers

The Code One article was informative indeed. If only we could have a similar report on the USAF Viper Vs the (Indian) IAF Fulcrum, if there were such a fight in the Cope 2004 Indo-US Exercise. I would like to believe, the IAF is operating one of the best Fulcrum to date.

cheers, :D

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 23:17
by elp
Early MiG-29 BVR cockpit switchology/setup is a joke. Match that with the shakey combat record of the R-27 and you are asking to get killed setting up a BVR shot.

MiG-29 Early-

-Nice WVR
-Sux in BVR
-An A2G comparison would be a joke
-Supply chain management could use "the customer is always right" approach.

Later MiG-29s? Well they have caught up to the early 90's for A2G. ( being generous here )
Newer R-27 might give some hope, R77 still unproven but should be good in Chinese or Indian hands ( i.e. someone that has a well funded aerospace industry )

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 23:41
by habu2
Personally I think these A vs B threads are pretty useless.

What I meant by that was when someone starts a thread with "which is better" or "which is faster" or "which flies higher" or "which would win a dogfight" etc. Sorry KarimAbdoun, I'm not attacking you personally.

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 23:43
by habu2
BTW the most remarkable piece of equipment I ever saw flying in the sky was a certain stewardess I remember from a commercial flight years ago.... :mrgreen:

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2004, 23:53
by elp
Cool video. Now I have to wash out the music in Premier before I add it to my archives :wink: I'd rather hear the original audio in HUD tapes. Don't worry. The music was less annoying then most corporate videos from the big weapons makers. :D