MiG-29 vs F-16

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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Yellow13

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Unread post22 Dec 2004, 18:53

I guess the next question is what are their electronics are packing? Is it enough to keep up with the US fighters?
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Dammerung

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Unread post22 Dec 2004, 23:06

I'd guess that the VVS has the best Fulcrum force...
I've never flown either, but It's bad to assume just because it's never been used and that's it's Russian it's garbage...

I'd say that the Max Range of the AIM-120 is also shorter than the max Range of the R-27RE... not entirely sure, but this would mean the MiG-29 gets the first shot against an American Bandit.
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Dammerung

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Unread post23 Dec 2004, 05:03

I consider the F-16 slightly superior... but the MiG-29 is a great aircraft, for sure. We've never really seen a well piloted -29 against a -16 ever. RVV-AE and R-27 are good missiles, but I don't know how they compare to the AIM-120 and AIM-7 respectively...
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CheckSix

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Unread post23 Dec 2004, 12:28

My statement is: It depends on the pilot.

F-16 may have a better carefree handling, but once you're experienced with the MiG you hold an advantage in dogfight.

I am not sure about the radar and BVR capabilities. RSK-MiG claims their radar is better, LMTAS sees it different ;-)

ZHUK-M's range against a 5m² target is 120km, APG-68V5 is reportet to have only 70km, according to an RSK-MiG release. Of cause here is a lot of speculation.
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Pumpkin

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Unread post23 Dec 2004, 22:00

CheckSix wrote:I think the RuAF is the deadliest MiG operator.

It remains unclear what standards their MiGs represent, but their tactics and experience should be well ahead of the export users.


CheckSix, I think Russia/Ukraine is operating the Mig-29S awaiting SMT upgrades.

I am very interested to read the combat capability of Romania Mig-29 "Sniper". Disregard the training and pilot qualities, I would think, it is THE best modernised Fulcrum in service. And the Mig-29 OVT TV nozzle looks especially cool. 8)
Last edited by Pumpkin on 25 Dec 2004, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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TC

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Unread post24 Dec 2004, 07:24

I love listening to the horse$hit that these MiG and Sukhoi drivers spit out on the "Discovery Wings" documentaries. You might as well write a script and have each pilot say the same thing, over and over again. "Oh, our MiG-29, or Su-37 can out-manuever the F-15 or F-16." "We can do this, that, or the other better than the F-15 or F-16." It's funny though...How many kills of American fighters do they have to show for it? I'll tell you how many. Doughnut baby. Goose Eggs. Balls. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nil. The Eagle and Viper have a combined near 170-0 kill ratio against all Russian-built fighters. Face it folks. We have the better fighters. We have the better pilots, which is the true key here. It really isn't the machine, it's the man flying it, although I would want every advantage a great piece of equipment can give me. Now you can argue about what foreign unit got a simulated kill against an F-15 or F-16 in some horse hockey exercise, but that really doesn't mean squat. Put your money where your mouth is. Put up or shut up. If you get a real, no bull$hit kill against an American fighter, then that is some validation for your performance. But again, the MiG-29 has never achieved a true kill against an American-built fighter, so forgive me if the plane's career combat record doesn't impress me. Sorry if I stepped on any toes there, but religion according to TC dictates that ABC v. XYZ is settled on the battlefield, not at some DACT exercise.

Beers and MiGs (whodathunkit?) were made to be pounded!
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Mongillo

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Unread post24 Dec 2004, 08:29

******* original post removed by admin *******

Welcome back 'Finotov' (aka Mongillo / Liana); now please leave. I'm sorry, but we do cannot tollerate trolls on this forum.

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parrothead

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Unread post24 Dec 2004, 17:56

TC, I agree with you that the proof is on the battlefield not in the exercises. With that said, I think most of us still enjoy seeing video of Fulcrums in a Viper's HUD :D . Someone posted this link to a video in another thread, but I thought everyone here in the F-16 vs MiG-29 forum might like to see it too :D ! It's a bit over 11 MB for the download, but it's worth it (I have dialup so you can imagine how long it took me :shock: ). Over four minutes of video featuring the MiG-29 in the F-16's HUD gunsight set to "Welcome to the Jungle" by Guns 'N Roses :mrgreen: . Enjoy everyone!!!
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Dammerung

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Unread post24 Dec 2004, 22:43

That's a great video, still watch it every once in awhile. But as TC mentioned, the pilot is the most important factor, and we've yet to see a well piloted MiG-29 go against a Western Opponent. We've also never seen the MiG do it's job: Interception. MiGs aren't too good at dogfighting, they're all for the most part point defence.

Still doesn't change the fact that my money's still on the F-16.
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Dammerung

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Unread post24 Dec 2004, 22:44

That's a great video, still watch it every once in awhile. But as TC mentioned, the pilot is the most important factor, and we've yet to see a well piloted MiG-29 go against a Western Opponent. We've also never seen the MiG do it's job: Interception. MiGs aren't too good at dogfighting, they're all for the most part point defence.

Still doesn't change the fact that my money's still on the F-16.
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CheckSix

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Unread post26 Dec 2004, 20:41

Here is a picture from the MiG-29 HUD:
Image

Images videos containing NATO jets in the crosshairs are classified :roll:
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Pumpkin

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Unread post26 Dec 2004, 21:54

Either the pilot hit the de-cluttered option or the symbology doen't look very informative.

The classified lock-on above, looks very much like a Tu-160 from where I'm sitting.... :roll:
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Dammerung

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Unread post27 Dec 2004, 00:52

Unlike US pilots, Russian pilots don't use the Hud for everything, it's merely a supplement. That's a German MiG, I doubt a German Fulcrum would be trying to hit a Tu-160 in ACM... from the hud, it's got about 70 deg of Bank, is in Guns Mode at 300m away from the Target. I can GUARANTEE it's not a Tu-160. On the site, it says it's another -29.
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EriktheF16462

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Unread post27 Dec 2004, 14:31

Well from the web sight at the bottom, I would say that is a NATO jet, a German Mig 29. There is no way for me to tell what kind of TOI that is, it could be a Mig23/27 also. So they don't use the HUD for everything, that means they are not looking out the windows enough. There is very little info shown there.
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Dammerung

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Unread post27 Dec 2004, 17:52

Yep, Russian Jets are much more Simple. The two little bars on the side, they show RMAX and RMIN, I don't know what the Cyrillic on the side means. Number at the top left is KIAS, Top right is Ft Above sea level. I believe 38 is heading, 038 deg... But it works. No Fancy Time To Impact, but it works.
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