Speed of the F-16 versus other aircraft

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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habu2

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Unread post21 Nov 2004, 19:44

Eagle of course is correct, but if you are a PR puke writing a byline then M 227.3 is a helluva lot more impressive than M 0...

By that same (lack of) reasoning, we are all orbiting the sun at about M 90 right now... ;)
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RyanCollins

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Unread post21 Nov 2004, 20:05

I got this list from a web page (includes rocket planes, like X-15):

1. X-15 Mach 6.72 354,200 feet
2. SR-71 Blackbird (YF-12) Mach 3.2+ 85,000+ feet
3. MiG-25 Foxbat-A (Ye-266) Mach 3.2 123,524 feet
3. X-2 Mach 3.2 126,200 feet
4. XB-70 Valkyrie Mach 3.1 77,350 feet
5. MiG-31 Foxhound Mach 2.83 67,600 feet
6. MiG-25 Foxbat (Ye-155) Mach 2.8 118,900 feet
7. F-15 Eagle Mach 2.5 60,000 feet
7. F-111 Aardvark Mach 2.5 60,000+ feet
8. X-1 Mach 2.435 90,440 feet
9. Su-24 Fencer Mach 2.4 57,400 feet
10. Tu-144 Charger Mach 2.35 59,055 feet
10. MiG-23 Flogger Mach 2.35 60,700 feet
10. Su-27 Flanker Mach 2.35 59,055 feet
11. F-14A Tomcat Mach 2.34 58,000+ feet
12. F-106 Delta Dart Mach 2.31 57,000 feet
13. IAI Kfir Mach 2.3 75,000 feet
13. English Electric Lightning Mach 2.3 60,000 feet
13. MiG-29 Fulcrum Mach 2.3 59,060 feet
13. F-107 Ultra Sabre Mach 2.3 48,000 feet
14. Tornado ADV Mach 2.2 69,997 feet
14. F-4 Phantom Mach 2.2 62,250 feet
14. Mirage 2000 Mach 2.2 59,055 feet
14. F-104 Starfighter Mach 2.2 58,000 feet
(120,800 feet NF-104A)
14. B-58 Hustler Mach 2.2 64,800 feet
15. F-105 Thunderchief Mach 2.1 52,000 feet
15. A-5 Vigilante Mach 2.1 52,100 feet
16. Su-22 Mach 2.09 59,055 feet
17. Tu-160 Blackjack Mach 2.05 49,200 feet
17. MiG-21 Fishbed Mach 2.05 50,000 feet
17. Concorde Mach 2.05 60,000 feet
18. D558-2 Skystreak Mach 2.005 83,235 feet
19. YF-23 Black Widow II Mach 2 (AB) 65,000 feet
19. F-20 Tigershark Mach 2+ 55,000 feet
19. YF-17 Cobra Mach 2+ 50,000 feet
20. Saab JAS 39 Gripen Mach 2 50,000 feet
20. F-16 Fighting Falcon Mach 2 50,000+ feet
20. Saab 37 Viggen Mach 2 60,039 feet
20. Saab 35 Draken Mach 2 65,600 feet
21. Tu-22M Backfire Mach 1.88 43,635 feet
21. F-14B/D Tomcat Mach 1.88 53,000+ feet
22. Su-34 Mach 1.8 45,890 feet
22. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Mach 1.8 50,000+ feet
22. F-22 Raptor Mach 1.8 (AB) 50,000 feet
23. XF-104 Starfighter Mach 1.79 58,000 feet
24. F-8 Crusader Mach 1.72 58,000 feet
25. F-101B Voodoo Mach 1.66 52,100 feet
26. X-29 FSW Mach 1.6 50,000 feet
27. Tu-22 Blinder Mach 1.52 48,228 feet
27. XF8U-1 Crusader Mach 1.52 58,000 feet
28. SEPECAT Jaguar Mach 1.5 45,930 feet
29. F-5 Freedom Fighter Mach 1.4 50,700 feet
30. F-100 Super Sabre Mach 1.3 51,000 feet
31. X-31 EFMI Mach 1.28 40,000 feet
32. B-1b Lancer Mach 1.25 50,000+ feet
33. F-102 Delta Dagger Mach 1.23 55,000 feet
34. T-38 Talon Mach 1.22 55,000+ feet
35. XF-90 Mach 1.1 39,000 feet
36. MiG-17 Fresco Mach 1.05 52,366 feet
37. F-86 Sabre Mach 1.04 50,800 feet
38. F-117 Nighthawk High Subsonic 45,000 feet
39. AV-8B Harrier II Mach 0.98 41,700+ feet
40. F-94 Starfire Mach 0.97 51,800 feet
41. A-6 Intruder Mach 0.94 42,400 feet
42. Saab 32 Lansen Mach 0.93 52,500 feet
43. F-80 Shooting Star Mach 0.88 46,800 feet
44. BAe Nimrod 2000 Mach 0.87 42,000 feet
45. B-52 Stratofortress Mach 0.86 55,000 feet
46. U-2 Dragon Lady Mach 0.8 90,000 feet
47. C-5 Galaxy Mach 0.79 35,750 feet
48. C-141 Starlifter Mach 0.77 41,600 feet
48. C-17 Globemaster III Mach 0.77 45,000 feet
49. B-2 Spirit Mach 0.72 50,000+ feet
49. P-3 Orion Mach 0.72 28,300 feet
50. A-10 Thunderbolt II Mach 0.67 45,000 feet


the F-16 is in 20, with the saab 39, 37 and 35 with M.2
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PetervanStigt

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Unread post30 Nov 2004, 17:59

Don't we all agree that in the '70s the F-16 was first and foremost designed with maneuvrability in mind, not top speed... The X-15 isn't breathing air, the X-43 indeed is. But what's the value of M10 in a tactical situation? I heard that a Viper is only able to do M2 clean at 50,000 ft. :lol:
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maximillian

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Unread post11 Dec 2004, 21:51

habu2 wrote:
  • MiG-25 - M2.83
  • F-15C - M2.5+
  • MIG-23 - M2.35
  • F-14A - M2.34


I agree, everything I've read, and studied, including Belenko's book, and "everything I could lay my hands on about the Blackbirds" in the last 20+ years, suggests the MIG-25 is more of a mach 2.8 class aircraft, than a truley mach-3 class machine, let alone sustained mach-3 plus, plus.

The Syrian/Soviet Pilots who overflew Isreal in MIG-25s at 2000mph, "were very lucky to get back alive," to paraphrase Blenenko himself.

The single seat CIA version A12 Blackbird is speculated (educated sources) to have been even a little faster, and had higher cruise altitude capability than even the SR-71.

It's important also to recognise that 1 v 1 in a visual domain dogfight,
the Mig-25 is absolutely dead meat against an F-16, Duh !

There's conflicting opninion these days as to the importance of "speed and performance," in contrast to "capability."

This might just be what this thread is trying to establish.

A good example is the F-18E, wich is pruported to be essentialy subsonic, for most practical purposes, and yet the navy claims it's extranordinary
"capability" makes up for this.

Personely, I don't buy it.

I think the navy made a significant mistake in not developing a subsiquently
re-designed, upgraded, and advanced version of the F-14, wich would have afforded BOTH, "Capabiity" and "Performance" instead of the so-called "super hornet." A case where bussiness interests, and Polictics overruled the best interests of national defence.

I think that the F-16 is a very good compromise, with supersonic performance on tap, and all kinds of "capabilities." As are the F-15s, and thank God there still with us.
MaX
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PetervanStigt

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Unread post11 Dec 2004, 23:32

hear hear... The only advantage of excess power and great speed is that you can get high fast, gaining an advantage in an A/A situation and ingress/eggress on your own in initiative
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fifel144

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Unread post17 Dec 2004, 03:51

I've seen clean blk 25 w/220e do 1.95 at 38k on FCF on regular basis and 1.2 at 1200AGL W/2 370's, but caused an overtemp.
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