F-16A Block 1, 5,10, 15 vs F-16C Block 30 turn radius

F-16ADF · by **F-16ADF** » 19 Dec 2016, 18:16

Hello all,

The early F-16A models (block 1-15) are substantially lighter than the F-16C models. Generally from what I have read, the early Block 5,10 A model weighed in at around 15,300lbs. While the F-16C Block 30 (big mouth) seems to weigh around 17,800lbs if not more. I know that the big mouth Block 30 has a better sustained turn rate; but I am wondering just how much of a TURN RADIUS advantage did the original A model have over the Block 30 since it is over 2,000lbs lighter?

There is a USAF Thunderbird promo video from the mid 1980's (www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5tmKRXLKZQ), and the moderator says at 11:50 minute mark that the F-16A minimum radius 9G turn is "slightly over 3 and a half football fields." I do not have any turn rate charts for the F-16A, but I was figuring it to be around 1100-1200 ft. While the F-16C block 30 chart (at sea level) generally has it at slightly under 1400ft. Can anyone shed light on to the F-16A turn radius advantage over the other heavier C models?

ccd · by **ccd** » 13 Oct 2017, 09:00

I think I saw the performance chart somewhere around internet. Have you given a try to search?

F-16ADF · by **F-16ADF** » 13 Oct 2017, 15:03

I have a chart for a Block 15 F-16A at 5K (2 Aim-9 + 1/2 internal fuel), but I tend to question its validity. Unfortunately, the actual USAF T.O. F-16A -1-1 is still considered classified. So I do not know the actual numbers. And that is most likely the reason why any USAF Viper pilots have not commented on this thread. But I figured I would post this question none the less.

What I liked about the original F-16A Blocks is that they were LIGHT. Yes, they were not as capable as the newer Block 40/50/60; but I always liked the original versions the most (probably because of the more austere focus on dog-fighting).

magnum4469 · by **magnum4469** » 13 Oct 2017, 22:20

Back in the day the Blk 30 (both big and small mouth) and Blk 40 were known as "Lead Nose Vipers" when flying against Blk 15s in similar configuration dogfighting. And yes I know they could haul more iron and had better avionics but once they hit the merge the Blk 15 had a distinct advantage.

viperzerof-2 · by **viperzerof-2** » 11 Mar 2022, 05:19

https://books.google.com/books?id=jRYOk ... FE&f=false

Here is a pretty interesting report comparing the F-16a and F-16/101 and describes areas each had an advantage. Note the F-16/101 is described as having a small inlet.

F-16ADF · by **F-16ADF** » 11 Mar 2022, 13:44

Awesome find, thanks Viperzero!

According to GD: F110-100 is 28,000lbs for big mouth, small mouth 25,000lbs.

johnwill · by **johnwill** » 11 Mar 2022, 19:05

The 1980 F-16 with F101 engine was F-16A No. 1, the first Full Scale Development airplane.

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 11 Mar 2022, 20:41

Hot rod

Buffalo · by **Buffalo** » 13 Mar 2022, 20:33

A big part of the early block advantage was an aggressive LEF program. Unfortunately that led to a number of LEF full up fails (lost one or two jets before Gum's save).

After they de-tuned the flight gains for LEF life program, the turning advantage shrunk...then it was mostly a smaller gross weight/less drag advantage over the post-block jets.

Not particularly significant in the general scheme of things overall...