F-16 versus Mirage F1

mtrman · by **mtrman** » 12 Jul 2015, 23:41

Dear Basher,

regarding the fuel trap incident;

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F ... file/3369/

old.iraqi.air.force · by **old.iraqi.air.force** » 13 Jul 2015, 02:19

SixShooter wrote:OK everyone,
what about visual ACM and long range intercept?
SixShooter

During the eighties the F-1 was competitive and excel to the earlier types of the F-16 in long range and ACM, but later and since nineties to the present day the F-16's it has made significant strides in intension while the F-1 remained at a standstill.

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 13 Jul 2015, 17:51

mtrman wrote:Dear Basher,

regarding the fuel trap incident;

okay cheers

pfo · by **pfo** » 15 Jul 2015, 20:40

alx2 wrote:Turkish pilots did not have that luxury, their only chance to train against Mirage F1s being in cases of international NATO exercises or in joint exercises with some Arab nations' Air forces.

But Mirage F1 is comparable with other III-gen's, like Mig-23 (with AA-7 BVR missiles) or Viggen (with Skyflash BVR missiles).

vilters · by **vilters** » 15 Jul 2015, 20:54

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
SixShooter wrote:OK everyone,
what about visual ACM and long range intercept?
SixShooter

During the eighties the F-1 was competitive and excel to the earlier types of the F-16 in long range and ACM, but later and since nineties to the present day the F-16's it has made significant strides in intension while the F-1 remained at a standstill.

Not in a long shot.

Even versus the first F-16 A and B models, the F-1 had NO chance at all. None.

Even all "lazy" F-16 pilots only had to wait till the F-1 ran out of gas.

The F-1 has high fuel consumption, and miserable sustained turn performance.

Just sit back, relax, gently turn with the guy, relax, and wait till he drops out of gas. And that will happen rather soon.

A single clean F-16A can "wait out" two F-1's, and still have fuel to spare. (Supposed they are both "clean".)

With bags, the single F-16A can "wait out" 3 Mirage F-1's.

Gently turn with them, wait till they have to bug out, Gun => game over. Next please?

It's been a long time, but I think to remember an F-16 in military can single circle turn on par with an F-1 in full burner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A clean F-16A has longer legs then a Mirage 2000 with bags.

Oh, and I do not care what the folder says.
Just be sure there is an airport where he runs out. Because gliding is not that good either. LOL.

wil59 · by **wil59** » 15 Jul 2015, 23:08

vilters wrote:
old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
SixShooter wrote:OK everyone,
what about visual ACM and long range intercept?
SixShooter

During the eighties the F-1 was competitive and excel to the earlier types of the F-16 in long range and ACM, but later and since nineties to the present day the F-16's it has made significant strides in intension while the F-1 remained at a standstill.

Not in a long shot.

Even versus the first F-16 A and B models, the F-1 had NO chance at all. None.

Even all "lazy" F-16 pilots only had to wait till the F-1 ran out of gas.

The F-1 has high fuel consumption, and miserable sustained turn performance.

Just sit back, relax, gently turn with the guy, relax, and wait till he drops out of gas. And that will happen rather soon.

A single clean F-16A can "wait out" two F-1's, and still have fuel to spare. (Supposed they are both "clean".)

With bags, the single F-16A can "wait out" 3 Mirage F-1's.

Gently turn with them, wait till they have to bug out, Gun => game over. Next please?

It's been a long time, but I think to remember an F-16 in military can single circle turn on par with an F-1 in full burner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A clean F-16A has longer legs then a Mirage 2000 with bags.

Oh, and I do not care what the folder says.
Just be sure there is an airport where he runs out. Because gliding is not that good either. LOL.

every time you make a comment on the French plane, you say every time have crappy airplane; f1 was a respectable year for 70 aircraft beginning and was perfectly capable of doing the tasks that were assigned to it! is either the recognition or AA.Sont 1ér flight was in 1966 and the F-16 in 1974 is the f1 generation 3;! f-16 is 4 generation! then you must be a troll or you know much about the fighter aircraft

vilters · by **vilters** » 16 Jul 2015, 22:00

Correct, the F-1 was an older generation aircraft.

Performance wise, we could put it together with a F-104.

F-1 against an F-104 would make a good dogfight.

wil59 · by **wil59** » 16 Jul 2015, 22:39

vilters wrote:Correct, the F-1 was an older generation aircraft.

Performance wise, we could put it together with a F-104.

F-1 against an F-104 would make a good dogfight.

mirage 3 would make a better comparaison for f-104

old.iraqi.air.force · by **old.iraqi.air.force** » 16 Jul 2015, 23:27

vilters wrote:Not in a long shot.

Even versus the first F-16 A and B models, the F-1 had NO chance at all. None.

Even all "lazy" F-16 pilots only had to wait till the F-1 ran out of gas.

The F-1 has high fuel consumption, and miserable sustained turn performance.

Just sit back, relax, gently turn with the guy, relax, and wait till he drops out of gas. And that will happen rather soon.

A single clean F-16A can "wait out" two F-1's, and still have fuel to spare. (Supposed they are both "clean".)

With bags, the single F-16A can "wait out" 3 Mirage F-1's.

Gently turn with them, wait till they have to bug out, Gun => game over. Next please?

It's been a long time, but I think to remember an F-16 in military can single circle turn on par with an F-1 in full burner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A clean F-16A has longer legs then a Mirage 2000 with bags.

Oh, and I do not care what the folder says.
Just be sure there is an airport where he runs out. Because gliding is not that good either. LOL.

There is no doubt the F-16 such a great aircraft and lucky who got chance to fly this bird.
The rules of engagement far away from what you mentioned above, however to make better assessment on which one is the better by long range interception First: you have to drawing hypothesis and know each aircraft on what speed and altitude, Second: what type of radar and ACM and missiles are using in this estimation, in this case you will be able to know what aircraft be advantage on the other one.
Remember my comment regarding to BVR engagement only and to the earlier models of Mirage F1's and F-16A and B.
Yes all in all the F-16A and B has advantage but still the F-1 competitive and excel.

madrat · by **madrat** » 17 Jul 2015, 06:08

Too bad we will never see Mirage F1 refitted with a modern engine like M88. The F1 was a fourth generation concept built using third generation left overs. Saying Mirage F1 is fourth gen is like saying Super Etendard is one, too. It wasn't conceptually built like classic fourth generation examples like Rafale C, F/A-18A, Tornado F.3, etc.