F-16 versus J-10

F-16overDPRK · by **F-16overDPRK** » 26 Mar 2005, 05:11

So how do u think the new Chinese J-10 would fare against an F-16C/D? The Chinese claim it can compete w/ the F-16, but they could be lying...

Pathfinder · by **Pathfinder** » 26 Mar 2005, 05:56

I do believe it when the Chinese stated that the J-10 is comparable to the F-16 block 50s. The reason I believe it is because the J-10 contains so much U.S contents. As we know the Israelis sold technologies from the Lavi when the Chinese began this program, and even after they formally ended cooperation in this project Israelis maintained an office in China(I think it's safe to say that they were aiding the Chinese). Overall the U.S invested around 2 billion dollars into the Lavi program and only to have the technolgies ended up in Chinese hands.

There were also rumours which the PLAAF(Chinese AF) obtained several F-16 block 15s from Pakistan in the mid 1990's.

kubam4a1 · by **kubam4a1** » 26 Mar 2005, 12:22

The J-10 can be comparable to F-16A ADF, but not to the newest F-16C's I think.
Regards,

F-16overDPRK · by **F-16overDPRK** » 26 Mar 2005, 15:52

The J-10 can match the F-16C/D, it will soon be fitted w/ the SD-10, so it will have BVR capability, just like the F-16C/D.

Pumpkin · by **Pumpkin** » 26 Mar 2005, 23:03

If the baseline of the design is LAVI, I believe the J-10 is comparable to the C/D. Reading the specification, the Chinese is pushing it to match up a late C/D (anti-ship, anti-radiation, FLIR targeting pod), if not beyond in the near future (thrust vectored powerplant).

From some very limited pictures of the J-10B, that has the provision of a WSO, I thought I see a mini-spine.

Bottom line, the J-10 looks like a marriage/copy of Russian, US, Israel technologies, packaged with a majority of indigenous design. Unless some F-16 operator can manage to have a joint-exercise with the Chinese, it will be difficult for one to qualify the performance of the J-10.

cheers,

PS: I have been trying to find out what is the white sensor right beneath of the canopy, forward of the canard, commonly seen only on the photo of the "1013" prototype. It is absent in the delivery batch and intentioanlly deleted in one photo. Appreciate if anyone can shed some light.

RSAF-G2 · by **RSAF-G2** » 08 May 2005, 20:04

Don't worry too much about all those bumps and sensors.. It's everywhere on the photos of the RSAF and Israeli F-16I.

They cover up on the pics too but if you spend time skimming through, you will find alot more just bumps on the F-16.

Since the J-10 probably involved Israeli design just like the RSAF/IAF's F-16D, they could have shared EW suites...probably a minimized version, you can never guess wads the sensor, unless you open it up.

kubam4a1 · by **kubam4a1** » 14 May 2005, 08:34

I think J-10 is quite comparable to F-16C/D Block 30/40. But it's not equal to the newest 52+s and 60s. On the other hand, it can beat F-16A/B.
Regards.

crobato · by **crobato** » 26 Nov 2005, 02:12

Pumpkin wrote:
PS: I have been trying to find out what is the white sensor right beneath of the canopy, forward of the canard, commonly seen only on the photo of the "1013" prototype. It is absent in the delivery batch and intentioanlly deleted in one photo. Appreciate if anyone can shed some light.

It might be an RWR.

The answer to your other question is that you got the prototypes reversed. The plane without the white blister is an earlier prototype, likely to be 1002 or 1003. 1013 is actually a very early batch of production or finalized plane undergoing final tests before entering service. It is very likely this plane has been renumbered into a regular two digit serial, indicating service status, and joined the regiment in the Flight Test and Training Center in the Beijing Military Region jurisdiction. This regiment is tasked with training, tactical development, Blue Flag aggressor and Beijing area air defense.

Sorry that the answer took several months coming.

Red6 · by **Red6** » 26 Nov 2005, 09:18

Pathfinder wrote:I do believe it when the Chinese stated that the J-10 is comparable to the F-16 block 50s. The reason I believe it is because the J-10 contains so much U.S contents. As we know the Israelis sold technologies from the Lavi when the Chinese began this program, and even after they formally ended cooperation in this project Israelis maintained an office in China(I think it's safe to say that they were aiding the Chinese). Overall the U.S invested around 2 billion dollars into the Lavi program and only to have the technolgies ended up in Chinese hands.

There were also rumours which the PLAAF(Chinese AF) obtained several F-16 block 15s from Pakistan in the mid 1990's.

The radar in the J-10 is said to be a direct copy of our older F-16 radars. Quite litterally a reversed engineered copy.

The Viper definetly seems to have an advantage in my opinion.

Red6

crobato · by **crobato** » 27 Nov 2005, 01:59

There were also rumours which the PLAAF(Chinese AF) obtained several F-16 block 15s from Pakistan in the mid 1990's.

Not verifiable. Knowing the Pakistanis, it would be more like the Chinese coming to take a look at their aircraft. But Pakistan is not the only F-16 equipped country that is friendly with China. The list also includes Thailand, Singapore, Venenzuela, Indonesia and Egypt.

The radar in the J-10 is said to be a direct copy of our older F-16 radars. Quite litterally a reversed engineered copy.

Not likely. Let us not forget that the US gave a lot of information on the APG-66 itself when Grumman was trying to sell an upgrade program on the Chinese Finbacks using the said radar.

But the current Chinese fighter radars probably has more with the Israelis and the Russians to thank for.

crobato · by **crobato** » 27 Nov 2005, 02:18

I do believe it when the Chinese stated that the J-10 is comparable to the F-16 block 50s.

Which Chinese stated that? The PRC goverment and the PLAAF hasn't even officially or publicized its specifications.

Velvet · by **Velvet** » 27 Nov 2005, 07:05

A very interesting airfrrame! We'll have to see what it's avionics are capable of before we judge it. It sure is pretty, though!

Red6 · by **Red6** » 27 Nov 2005, 19:26

F-16overDPRK wrote:So how do u think the new Chinese J-10 would fare against an F-16C/D? The Chinese claim it can compete w/ the F-16, but they could be lying...

Many claim a lot. They even have “jumping tanks” and MIGS that fly a “Cobra”. :lol:

Funny how real world it never seems to hold up to the test. MIG29 in the Balkans, MIGs over Iraq 1991, Vietnam, Korea, Israeli wars......

No- The J-10 would loose in a bad way. My opinion.

elp · by **elp** » 28 Nov 2005, 18:19

Crobato has extensive knowledge in this area. Most information he provides in the area of Chinese capability is highly useful. Best thing to do on most Crobato posts, is just read them. :lol:

Corous · by **Corous** » 11 May 2006, 02:45

Lotsa conflicting info out there about the J-10, but it is a pretty good-looking bird. I thought it had a Russian Zhuk radar, but anyway. I think both Wikipedia and sinodefence.com have some solid info on the aircraft.

When it comes to engagement with an F-16, I think more info is needed, but again, the side with more and better BVRAAMs will win IMO.