F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2005, 13:53
by arthurgray
Would like to know what everybody thinks about this, according to air international some people have said the JF-17 is better or if not better then the F-16. :shock:

Unread postPosted: 23 Mar 2005, 21:42
by Pumpkin
arthurgray, here is some very informative articles on the JF-17/FC-1. Is it better than the F-16? Personally, I don't think it is a comparsion of the same class. It should be compared with India's LCA or Taiwan's IDF. It will be interesting to know the performance of the SD-10 BVR missile though.

Unread postPosted: 24 Mar 2005, 03:42
by arthurgray
Thanks pumpkin of all the articles i have read,photos i have seen is nothing compared to those photos i added to my favorites the plan veiw of the JF-17. This helps a lot now the only thing missing is a 1/48 scale model to add to my collection.

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2005, 13:00
by agilefalcon16
I believe that if the Viper can outmaneuver the Gripen, I'm fairly confident the Viper can outmaneuver the JF-17 as well. But I can't be sure.

Unread postPosted: 31 Mar 2005, 14:44
by Purplehaze
With the right driver the Viper can out do anything....Right Gums?

Purplehaze

Unread postPosted: 13 Apr 2005, 18:34
by blain2
I think I can add my $.02 worth here as well. The primary customer for JF-17 is the Pakistan Airforce. They believe that the JF-17 should be close to or equal to their existing blk 15 F-16 in terms of their ability to execute BFM/ACM with it and that is pretty much it. PAF likes it F-16s better for sure and this will not change in the future and considers them as the high-tech component of its inventory. The JF-17s are envisaged to be the medium-tech component in the PAF inventory. They are being developed primarily to replace the existing inventory of Mirage III/Vs and some other hardware of Chinese origin.

The biggest + of the JF-17 is the first-shot BVR capability of the aircraft because it will be fully integrated/mated to the SD-10 MRAAM. Until and unless AMRAAMs are released to Pakistan, the JF-17 will be the only aircraft with this capability.

Unread postPosted: 04 May 2005, 10:45
by rafale_2k5
No way does a JF-17 match up to F-16 , just remember JF-17s basically PAFs nostalgia 4 the F-16 , which incidentally they fell in love with, afger US sanctions wen things really looked bleak they decided to make their own F-16 , which incidentally purely from performance parameters is basically 70% of the original F-16 blk15 , but if we compare the BVR capability and avionics its far superior, however in WVR dog fight its sustained turn rate is more than F-16 during subsonis speeds but F-16 would beat it with its superior thrust , so all in all it cant be compared in the same class!!!

Unread postPosted: 26 Aug 2005, 18:11
by IndianAirForce
No way is the JF-17 going to win. It is just a cheaper altenative to the F-16.
The F-16 has proven itself in combat. It's just common sense, the F-16 will win

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2005, 17:42
by Angels225
Arthur gray I had the oppurtunity to meet a pilot at the exhibition IDEAS 2004 that was held in pakistan recentlly...
I cant recall his name(I know.. this kills the credibility of my post all together :oops: )
but after the usual JF-17 this and that I had him convinced I wasnt just another college going kid who(usually here) din know jack about jets he invited me for lunch at the cafeteria. at lunch he told me in the best of words.. that the JF-17 is 80% of the viper at "combat speeds".. the reason we want is BVR.. which has already been said. that said the sagem guys have said they'll make it PGM/TV capable so that the PAF can start shoving those mirage's in the scrap yard where they belong( lost another one yesterday), without worrying about losing the strike capablity..range was an issue.. but appprently the chinese got inspired by the blk 60's conformals and are making some for this thing as well..though even he was not too sure of that( must have been an over confident guy boasting about the owlet dragon..i thinks thats wats it called there).. long story short.. a poor mans viper..

Unread postPosted: 07 Oct 2005, 14:13
by pafpilot
i know its off topic! but what if the JF-17 is compared to Indian LCD

Unread postPosted: 09 Oct 2005, 05:33
by Fighting-Falcon
JF-17 is being built to counter indian LCA. Even if JF-17 is equal to the F-16`s so why we Pakistani are actually buying F-16`s from America right now.

Unread postPosted: 09 Oct 2005, 05:44
by Fighting-Falcon
Actually,JF-17 is also being made to replace the ageing fleet of Mirages,Fantans and F-7`s(though F-7PG will remain in service).

JF-17 will be our Arirforces spearhead because we will get them in quantity and they are being produced by us.

Unread postPosted: 22 Oct 2005, 22:41
by kaiser_spawn
The JF-17 is still under devoplement so its still undertermined if it will be egual to the F-16.According to my anylasis the JF-17 has significently improved and the 3rd prototype was 90% as capable as the f-16c block 50.This was a large improvement for Pakistan and China is you realize that the first prototype was only half as capable as the f-16.As for the LCA it is not even comparable to the mig-23 and not even worth mentioning.

Unread postPosted: 05 Nov 2005, 16:45
by shiz302
Image

Anyone see a resemblance?

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2005, 05:58
by Pat1
kaiser_spawn wrote:According to my anylasis the JF-17 has significently improved and the 3rd prototype was 90% as capable as the f-16c block 50.This was a large improvement for Pakistan and China is you realize that the first prototype was only half as capable as the f-16.As for the LCA it is not even comparable to the mig-23 and not even worth mentioning.


Hi kaier_spwan,

How do you figure?

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2005, 23:16
by blain2
IndianAirForce wrote:No way is the JF-17 going to win. It is just a cheaper altenative to the F-16.
The F-16 has proven itself in combat. It's just common sense, the F-16 will win


It wins for the PAF because it allows the PAF to replace all of her Mirages and F-7s with new airframes which have a fully mated BVR capability and a radar that may potentially exceed the capabilities of the blk 15 F-16s in service currently. In terms of a comparison between the viper and JF-17, its probably not needed as the PAF itself sees the JF-17 to be the 2nd tier behind its mainstay of F-16s which will hopefully increase in #s in the near future.

Unread postPosted: 11 May 2006, 02:02
by Corous
In an engagement, an F-16 block 40 or higher would win for sure. The reason being the SD-10 is semi-active. Now, if the PL-12 ( I'd like to call it the AMRAAMLing, and yes, I'm trademarking the term. ) ever gets into production or if AA-12-carrying capability is added to the JF-17, that could be a different story.

The JF-17 is meant to be in the same class as the F-5 anyway. The real perk for Pakistan is that they get the know-how of the whole process of designing, manufacturing and testing an aircraft. They also get to assemble half of their order IIRC.

Unread postPosted: 11 May 2006, 09:55
by RoAF
SD-10 is the export name of the PL-12, it has active radar guidance and it is into production.
The real value of the JF-17/FC-1 for the Pakistanis is its BVR capability, along with the fact that they need a (comparatively) cheap plane to replace their Mirage III/5 and A-5.

Unread postPosted: 11 May 2006, 19:56
by Corous
RoAF wrote:SD-10 is the export name of the PL-12, it has active radar guidance and it is into production.
The real value of the JF-17/FC-1 for the Pakistanis is its BVR capability, along with the fact that they need a (comparatively) cheap plane to replace their Mirage III/5 and A-5.


Hmmm, okay I keep thinking the SD-10 is the export version of the PL-10, which is SARH. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that one up.

Unread postPosted: 13 May 2006, 23:01
by PRINCEBUSTER0
Corous wrote:
RoAF wrote:SD-10 is the export name of the PL-12, it has active radar guidance and it is into production.
The real value of the JF-17/FC-1 for the Pakistanis is its BVR capability, along with the fact that they need a (comparatively) cheap plane to replace their Mirage III/5 and A-5.


Hmmm, okay I keep thinking the SD-10 is the export version of the PL-10, which is SARH. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that one up.

No,SD-10 is a full active radar guidance that guidance head is name of AMR-1.LONG:3850mm,Diameter: 203mm,Span: 674mm,WEIGHT: 180KG ROOF: 25km RANGE:70km SPEED:M4 The greatest overload:38G China experts think SD-10 as well as PL-12,but it is lower than PL-12 at other aspects.

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2006, 07:54
by saker-hawk
Heres a video of the old prototypes for the Jf-17. Not really very agile but lets wait and see what the DSI intakes plus the huge F-18 style LERXs can do for it. Still pretty neat.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 123&q=fc+1


On the other hand the LCA looking very impressive but the flights are dissapointing. No manuvers nothing. Can anyone provide better videos for both these aircrafts.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5406&q=lca

Right now none of these fighters can stand upto the Viper, but Chinese progress on the JF-17 and J-10 seems promising. Considering the cost of these jets except for the LCA in large numbers they can form a good airforce.

Can anyone also provide links videos of F-16s manuvering just like there are clips of F-18 and mirages on the net. Would be really appreciated.

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2006, 08:45
by saker-hawk
From the outside the pure Asthetics and Bird of Prey curves of the Viper beat the cheap Jf-17 but the inside looks pretty neat and Pakistan F-16s are quite old, the new cockpits of the Jf-17 will be a welcome for the pilots even if that acceleration and pitch performance is not there.

Image
DSI did turn this ugly duckling into a swan.
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:twisted:
NOTE THE EXTENDED LERXs
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Now the INside
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Someone seems happy with this poor mans viper. :twisted:

Unread postPosted: 27 Jun 2006, 01:20
by Viper786
JF-17 has potential it can probably beat a F-16 block 40 or older, but imagine if it had latest avionics with AWACS or AMRAAM it'll be a fair fight then

Unread postPosted: 27 Jun 2006, 12:53
by RoAF
JF-17 has potential it can probably beat a F-16 block 40 or older

And this assumption is based on what?
Please define "older" - the MLU is older than the Block 40, but more capable

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2006, 04:37
by Viper786
or blocks below it, only because it will have some western avionics in it which will help boost the JF-17, but its manuverability is pretty good for its class of a fighter prolly one the best in its class

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2006, 11:49
by RoAF
prolly one the best in its class

Not really. The Gripen outperforms it in every way: weapons, avionics, maneuverability, maintainability...

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2006, 19:47
by saker-hawk
Oh yeah , can it toss a nuclear bomb. I guess not. Well you can count on JF-17 having this capability given the fact it will become the workhorse of PAF ,replacing the A-5 and Mirages. Plus with the Erieye on Saab 2000 ordered with datalinks for this baby and SD-10 and Amraams from Uncle this Jf-17 will turn into a hell of a fighter. Although its range will be worse than a Mig-29 (well it uses one same RD-93 tweaked RD-33 engine of a Mig-29). So even if the Gripen performs better ,well takin cost and other factors into account Jf-17 is far better than Gripen. By the way PAF has been testing Gripens for years and it comes short on their requirements.

Oh PAF recently ordered 36 BLK-50+ f-16c/DS . THis will give it an awesome ground attack capability , sustained CAP capabilty and what do you say with the given goodies mentioned above PAF will be a hell of a force. OH they ordered Mk84 usual, Blu-109s for hard targets. They ordered Amraam 5Cs and AIm9s.

On top of all this PAF will induct the J-10 which will take care of the Indian MKI in conjunction with the F-16 BLK 50.

Unread postPosted: 02 Jul 2006, 06:58
by RoAF
saker-hawk, let's see first if the US congress approves the deal in this exact configuration.
One major component is missing from the goodies asked for by PAF - a modern off-boresight WWR missile. They did order JHMCS, but only AIM-9M-8/9.
Not good enough considering the Indians have MICA and R-73, and will get Python 4 for the MKIs.

Unread postPosted: 03 Jul 2006, 15:17
by blain2
RoAF wrote:saker-hawk, let's see first if the US congress approves the deal in this exact configuration.
One major component is missing from the goodies asked for by PAF - a modern off-boresight WWR missile. They did order JHMCS, but only AIM-9M-8/9.
Not good enough considering the Indians have MICA and R-73, and will get Python 4 for the MKIs.


It does not matter if the current order does not include AIM-9x. Obviously there will be a certain delay in getting the 9x out to countries that are not 1st tier US allies. However, the JHMCS is great to have for the delivery of A2G munitions as well. AIM-9x is less sensitive geo-politically than AIM-120C5 so in a bit of time, PAF will get AIM-9x as well. The whole idea behind US administration holding things back in certain situations is if a particular capability has not been inducted in the region...if it has then eventually US also ...since IAF already has this capability, The HOBS solution will happen with AIM-9x for PAF as well. The precedence is already there...ALR -> ALR, Phalcon-> Erieye, R77-> AIM120...so on and so forth.

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2006, 02:17
by Viper786
lol alright so every ones saying that F-16 is a proven aircraft, so 5 years down the road when the JF-17 is relesed, and what if it happens to be better then F-16 then, plus plus there are many open areas for improvements and many blocks to come im sure of that

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2006, 15:56
by blain2
Well given the avionics suite of the F-16 blk 52 vs. what ever that can be integrated onto JF-17 (assuming it will be all western avionics as PAF seldom uses Chinese), I think the JF-17 will still be never as good as blk 52 in terms of sophistication etc. This is the reason that instead of spending the money on JF-17, PAF has chosen to spend upwards of $5 billion on F-16 fleet enhancement.

Unread postPosted: 09 Jul 2006, 06:18
by Corous
blain2 wrote:Well given the avionics suite of the F-16 blk 52 vs. what ever that can be integrated onto JF-17 (assuming it will be all western avionics as PAF seldom uses Chinese), I think the JF-17 will still be never as good as blk 52 in terms of sophistication etc. This is the reason that instead of spending the money on JF-17, PAF has chosen to spend upwards of $5 billion on F-16 fleet enhancement.


I believe the Pakistanis are still purchasing / producing 150 JF-17s in addition to the Block-50s and MLUs. It's not unreasonable for a country like Pakistan to have upwards of 300 fighters. I still think that for Pakistan, the real perk of having the JF-17 is the technical know-how of designing and building an aircraft.

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2006, 04:08
by Ayubi
Corous wrote:. I still think that for Pakistan, the real perk of having the JF-17 is the technical know-how of designing and building an aircraft.


You said the whole thing there buddy. The JF-17 was made to replace PAF's and chinese AF's old planes. They were not made to be the best fighters in the world. Apart from that such plane was made so pakistan can be more dependent on itself( Note pakistan moved to this plane when it was sacntioned in the 90's along with a bunch of other military and civilan progams). With this plane pakistan's engienners will have the know how on the art of making planes.

As for the performance, well it has'nt really entered service yet, but by this time around next year, we'll see how good this thing really is. Right now on paper, it's suppose to be a meduim tech fighter suppose to replaceold fighters

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2006, 22:19
by Viper786
i agree with ayubi its true that pakistan is replacing the older aricrafts with JF-17, its better then having older fighters. this fighter also gives them a slight techlongical edge.

Unread postPosted: 26 Jul 2007, 10:56
by falcon_sgd
JS-17 has been entered in PAF now...its performance is nearly 70% of the F-16C blk-50 or 52...apparently its far better than those planes whom it is going to replace.i.e. F-7 AND OLD MIRAGE IIIs...PAF will use it mainly to acquire number and secondly performance..for quality GRIPPEN and F-16C are in consideration..though PAF has started to get newer F-16s..

Unread postPosted: 12 Aug 2007, 05:30
by Shirjeel
Yes 4 JF-17 have arrived in Pakistan. Pakistan is still getting F-16s becuase we had already paid for them in 1990's, but due to sanctions we didnt get them and they were either sitting in Arizona Desert or Were used as agressors for US Navy and Airforce. Most people say that the F-16 has advantage In BVR due to its AIM-120 but the Pakistan JF-17s are also modified to carry the AMRAAM. The JF-17 is about 2000 kg lighter than the F-16, which i think is a crucial factor in Dogfighting. The JF-17 is powered by RD-93 [Modified Mig-29s RD-33 Engine] And gives it a top speed of over 1.8 mach. Future RD-93 will have a thrust vector nozzle which will improve agillity. JF-17's also have a Traditional Russian Refueling Probe[The ones you find on SU's and Migs]So that it can be refueled in Mid-air. And as for tanker role Pakistan has ordered 4 IL-78 Refuelers from Ukrain.

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2007, 09:47
by Pilotasso
Shirjeel wrote:The JF-17 is about 2000 kg lighter than the F-16, which i think is a crucial factor in Dogfighting.


JF-17 has a thrust to weight ratio less than 1 in clean config. So being lighter doesnt do any favours for the Thunder. The JF-17 seems to have the manuverability similar to that of the F5 even if that plane was even more uderpowered than the JF-17.

JF-17 is a strategical aquisition, its not better than the F-16. But if the US stops supplying parts the falcon is grounded while the thunder keeps flying, thats why its being bought, not because its better than the F-16.

Unread postPosted: 14 Oct 2007, 16:46
by Dizasta
The JF-17 Thunder is a new beginning for Pakistan, as it enters the world of fighter design, development and manufacturing. There is alot to learn and alot of experience to apply (flying the F-16s in PAF) to the Thunders. At this point in time, there are 4-6 prototypes flown and Pakistan has received the first two SBP (small batch production) aircraft which were flown on the 23rd of March 2007, on Pakistan's defense day parade. Four more are going to be delivered in December'07, as Pakistan Air Force commences weapons system tests & evaluation.

The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a magnificent fighter, which has proved its worth in combat. This fighter is probably the only one which has equaled or surpassed the F-4 Phantom, in sales and production. Vipers are no doubt deadly in combat and for this reason Pakistan Air Force ordered 18 (plus an option 18 more) F-16 C/D Block-52s.If anything, the Fighting Falcon inspired the inception of the Thunders. And there is no comparison b/w the two fighters, as the Thunders have yet to enter into Pakistan Air Force and get baptized in combat.

Some improvements that I feel would eventually take place on Thunders. One of them would be the radar, as Pakistan Air Force is currently looking into options such as RDY, RC-400 & etc. Other than that, the engine would need to be replaced as it is under powered with the Russian RD-93. Plus, I would like to see Pakistan gain some experience on using composite material technology, to apply in the production of Thunders. As you should all know, that post-2010, PAC (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex), would have achieved 100% production of the fighter.

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2008, 19:20
by wantedeagle
one thing more,that F-16 has just 9 payload carrying points while JF-17 has 11 points :D

Unread postPosted: 30 Jun 2008, 23:14
by outlaw162
Dizasta wrote:The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a magnificent fighter, which has proved its worth in combat. This fighter is probably the only one which has equaled or surpassed the F-4 Phantom, in sales and production.



There have been more MiG-21's built (sales & production) than any other jet fighter.

regards, O.L.

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2008, 01:31
by iJDAM
outlaw162 wrote:
Dizasta wrote:The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a magnificent fighter, which has proved its worth in combat. This fighter is probably the only one which has equaled or surpassed the F-4 Phantom, in sales and production.



There have been more MiG-21's built (sales & production) than any other jet fighter.

regards, O.L.


But the F-16 is better than the Mig-21, so that counts for something.

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2008, 02:36
by outlaw162
No doubt about that. 50's vs 70's fighter concepts.

Producing all those MiG-21's actually ended up providing western fighter aviation with more potential targets.

But I would never underestimate your opponent, including the JF-17.

Remember, the Chinese put two guys in orbit, brought 'em back, and produce a whole lot more critically educated engineers than the U.S. does each year.

regards

While I might be wrong

Unread postPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 07:09
by dmz241
This board has given alot of information. But with the latest information available its clear that the jf 17 is equal to the f16 blk 50/52. While its still and entry level plane the good news it that we will be replaces the old mirages with this, which clearly means that our air force will be alot stronger. I read some posts on the LCA. LCA is a truly 5th gen plane where as jf17 is a 4th gen plane(but the best in class from the articles I have read). With due time and improvements it can become better then the f16. But we need to really to think about developing j10/j11s ourselfs rather then relying completely on jf17( think export on the jf17).. Remember the china is not going to induct this plane into its force which gives you a hint.

RE: While I might be wrong

Unread postPosted: 23 Dec 2008, 08:28
by F16guy
dmz241, I wouldn't say the JF-17 is the equal of the F-16, based on my background.

It is strictly a matter of opinion, however. I've heard and seen plenty of stories of outclassed (based on avionics, performance, and weapons carried) fighters winning. My impression. JF-17 is not close to a F-16. Also, a lot of people compare the F-16's based on blocks in this forum. I want to go on record and say that is a poor performance comparison. Block 40's and 50's now share the same avionics architecture with just minor differences, however, many of the earlier blocks are very formidable, especially with the avionics and weapons upgrades.

So I'll go back to my assessment and say that the JF-17 is not equal to the F16. I'll put my background and expertise on that. But I'll never scoff an opponent's airplane either, even the MiG-21, F-5, MiG-23, or many other way old generation jets.

Oh, and one last thing, the LCA jet is definitely not a fifth gen jet. Not even close. And I'll still bet my money on an F16 against any F-10 and I don't gamble (no I'm not Mormon either).

RE: While I might be wrong

Unread postPosted: 24 Dec 2008, 06:35
by dmz241
Thanks for your insight f16guy. But when I was comparing to the 2 jets it was based on why it would be produced. PAF simply wants to replace its aging fleet of mirages and jf17 if not better then the f16 is comparable to it. And as I read somewhere it gives PAF a major shot in the arm as its older fleet is not only outdated but crashing at an alarming rate.

RE: While I might be wrong

Unread postPosted: 24 Dec 2008, 11:26
by dmz241
well I just talked to someone who has supplied cnc machines to paf and as per him they still dont have the machines up and running due to some structural problems. So far the plane is completely being build in china. He did say that it has some French and Western avionics in it. He also told me that this is a mid tier plane cant compete too well in air fights is better suited for ground assaults...

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 01:52
by #1falconfan
You guys also forget to mention that the aircrafts weapons in chinese service are not nearly as good as are's. You also forgot mention piolts skill. :D

Unread postPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 12:38
by kingcobra
Guys have a look at JF-17 and F-16 turn rate Comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5aUGum2EiM

:devil: :cheers:

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2009, 19:43
by mrfalcon
if some one have been forgotten about the jf 17 thunder then read it again here is the some information for some over dammped posters.

Official designation: Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Xiaolong
PAF designation: Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder
Function: Air-superiority; Ground attack
Designer: Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute)
Manufacturer: Chengdu Aircraft Industry (Group) Corporation Ltd. (CAC)
Maiden flight: 25 August 2003
Operator: Pakistani Air Force
Estimated cost: US$15~20 million

The FC-1 (Fighter China-1) Xiaolong is the result of a joint Sino-Pakistani development programme that started in 1999, with each side contributing 50% of the total development cost. Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China is the prime contractor for aircraft development and manufacture, while Pakistani Aeronautical Complex (PAC) is the main partner responsible for post-sale service and maintenance, as well as the production of some parts for the aircraft in Pakistan. The aircraft was designed by Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute). Russia supplied its Klimov RD-93 turbofan jet engine for the aircraft.

The initial order was from the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) for eight aircraft, which were delivered in 2007~08. A further order for 42 aircraft worth about US$800 million was signed in March 2009. The aircraft is currently being built by CAC at a rate of 15 aircraft per annum, and this will increase to 30 aircraft per annum later. The total number required by the PAF could be as many as 250, worth US$3~5 billion.

Several other countries also showed interest in the aircraft. Despite previous reports suggesting that the FC-1 would also be equipped by the PLAAF, no order has been reported so far.

Programme

The FC-1 traces its origin to the Super-7 fighter programme, a joint Chengdu-Grumman development project worth US$500 million to upgrade the Chinese J-7 (MiG-21) fighter. Proposed upgrades included removing the fighter's nose air intake and replacing it with a ‘solid’ nose with two lateral air intakes, as well as upgrading the fighter with Western-made avionics and engine. The development agreement was signed in 1986, but the programme was cancelled in 1990, in the wake of the cooling political relations between China and the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project.

Chengdu continued the Super-7 project independently and re-branded the design as FC-1. In 1999, China and Pakistan concluded a joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1 fighter. Under the agreement, the programme was to be jointly funded by the China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan, each with 50% stake of the joint venture. The total cost of the development programme was estimated to be US$150 million. Russian Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) reportedly provided some assistance in the development of the aircraft

The first prototype of the FC-1 rolled out on 31 May 2003, and the aircraft made its maiden flight successfully on 25 August. A total of three flying prototypes were developed, along with a static prototype. Flight trial of the aircraft completed in 2005 and the aircraft entered production in June 2006.


JF-17 of the Pakistani Air Force (Chinese Military Aviation)


In March 2007, CAC delivered two JF-17 fighters (#101, #102) to the PAF on 12 March 2007. They made their debut on 23 March during a fly-past as part of the Pakistan Day military parade in Islamabad. A further six aircraft were delivered to the PAF in 2008. Under the joint development agreement, the PAF will acquire up to 250 examples of the fighter in several batches, with the avionics systems gradually upgraded in later batches. Some production will also be carried out by PAC in Pakistan, including the manufacture of the aircraft’s wings and fin.

CAC and CATIC are also actively marketing the FC-1 to other developing countries as a low-cost replacement for the Northrop F-5 Tiger, Dassault Mirage III/5, Shenyang J-6, MiG-21/F-7 Fishbed, and Nanchang Q-5. Potential customers could include Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt and Nigeria.

Design

The FC-1 adopts a rather conventional aerodynamic layout, with mid-mounted wings, lateral air intakes, single-frame bubble cockpit canopy, and two under-belly stabilising fins. The drag chute bay is located at the root of the rudder. An electronic equipment pod is mounted on the tip of the rudder. The formal production variant of the FC-1 features a diffuser supersonic inlet (DSI) similar to those of the U.S. F-35 fighter for better air-intake efficiency.

Radar

The JF-17s in service with the PAF are fitted with an Italian Grifo S-7 multi-track, multi-mode, pulse Doppler radar radar. The radar has 25 working modes and a non-break-down time of 200 hours, and is capable of “look-down, shoot-down”, as well as for ground strike abilities. Alternatively, the aircraft can be fitted with the Thales RC400, GEC Marconi Blue Hawk, Russian Phazotron Zemchug/Kopyo, and Chinese indigenous KLJ-7 developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET).

Cockpit and Avionics Systems


The FC-1 / JF-17 features a ‘glass cockpit’ with three large multifunctional displays (Chinese Internet)


The FC-1’s avionics architecture is supported by two mission computers based on Multi-Bus System (MIL-STD-1553B). The heart of the system is a 32-bit Weapon and Mission management Computer (WMMC) which performs mission computations, flight management, reconfiguration / redundancy management and in-flight system self-test.

■Navigation -- Hybrid inertial navigation system (INS) and global positioning system (GPS);
■Communications -- Independent data link with two Independent wide-band radios with anti-jamming capabilities;
■Electronic warfare (EW) -- Self production jammer, missile approach warning system, radar warning receiver (RWR), chaff & flare dispenser;
■Identification of Friend and foe (IFF) -- IFF interrogator for target verification at the BVR range;
■‘Glass’ cockpit -- Three large Multifunction Colour Displays (MFD) and smart Heads-Up Display (HUD) with built-in symbol generation capability; HOTAS;
■Targeting -- Laser Designator and Targeting Pod (LDTP) for target illumination and detection with day/ night capabilities;
Weapons

Fixed weapon includes a GSh-23 dual-barrel 23mm cannon. Alternatively the aircraft can be fitted with a GSh-30 dual-30mm cannon. There are 7 stores stations, including one under the fuselage, 4 under the wings, and 2 wingtip mounted, with up to 3,700kg weapon payload.

The aircraft is callable of ‘beyond-visual-range’ (BVR) attack capability with the PL-12/SD-10 active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM) developed by China Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI, also known as 607 Institute). The aircraft also carries two short-range AAMs on its wingtip-mounted launch rails. The options include U.S. AIM-9P and Chinese PL-7, PL-8, and PL-9.

The aircraft can carry a special pod allowing day/night delivery of laser-guided weapons. In addition, it can also carry unguided weapons such as low-drag general-purpose (LDGP) bombs and unguided rocket launchers.

Engine

The FC-1/JF-17 is powered by a Russian-made Klimov RD-93 turbofan jet engine rated 49.4kN dry or 84.4kN with afterburning. The RD-93 is a derivation of the RD-33 used by the MiG-29 fighter. In 2007, China signed a contract with Russia to supply 150 RD-93 engines for the JF-17 production.

Liyang Aero Engine Corporation in Guizhou is reportedly developing an indigenous turbofan engine designated WS-13 (or Tianshan-21) as an alterative powerplant option for the FC-1. The engine was said to have been based on the RD-93 design with some modifications.

Specifications

Crew: One
Length: 14m
Wingspan: 8.5m (without wingtip missiles)
Wing area: 24.4m2
Height: 5.10m
Empty weight: 6,411kg
Loaded weight: 9,100kg (without two wingtip missiles)
Take-off weight: (normal) 9,100kg; (maximum) 12,700kg
Fuel capacity: 2,300kg
In-flight refuelling: No
Weapon payload: 3,700kg
Powerplant: 1X Russian RD-93 turbofan, rated at 49.4kN dry or 84.4kN with afterburning
Max level speed: Mach 1.6~1.8 (high altitude)
Max climb rate: N/A
Service ceiling: 16,700m
Ferry range: 3,000km
Combat radius: 1,350km
G limit: -3 ~ +8.5
Fixed weapon: 23mm or 30mm single-barrel cannon
External hardpoints: Seven (1 under the fuselage centerline; 4 under the wings; 2 on the wingtips)

Last update: 13 March 2009

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2009, 19:45
by mrfalcon
believe me your bolti will close .

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2009, 19:51
by mrfalcon
you look at the grace of this fighter plane
http://aviationfans.com/images/JF-17Thunder013.jpg
looks like x35 fighter front view some how the.

F-17 at Zuhai Airshow 2010 China... MUST C PICS:)

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2010, 00:38
by magkhan
JF-17 looks impressive at Zuhai Airshow 2010 China...

Youtube video lin:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lybGW18 ... _embedded#!

COCKPIT
http://i.6.cn/cvbnm/99/6c/87/7054a0c1bc ... 3834e4.jpg
http://calf.cn/attachments/day_101119/1 ... 184f16.jpg

Pictures:-
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Unread postPosted: 14 Apr 2011, 11:39
by maximumg
People seem to be missing the point, JF-17 wasnt meant to replace F-16s, but rest of the fleet like A-5s, F-7s and Mirages. They are multi-role and can carry out some of the tasks F-16s can but F-16 C/Ds are clearly superior in terms of hardware as well as Avionics and thats why they cost twice as well. JF-17 is very good for its price-tag, but there's always a compromise on price and quality.

If you take the JF-17 Thunder specifications from this site: http://www.jf-17.com/ and compare with:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article9.html

You'll see there is clearly a superior engine as well as Avionics for F-16.

Maybe in future JF-17 can match F-16 C/Ds..today its not meant to, not even by PAF, let alone the fan boys here. They both have there roles and thats why one is not replacing the other. You could increase the price-tag and try and lower the gap between the two, but that's not needed right now.

lol

Unread postPosted: 25 Apr 2011, 23:20
by black_spider
F-16s are history now, JF-17 has already outclassed it. See what the taiwanese aviation industry is saying. No doubt it is inferior than F-15C but not to forget that JF-17 is still in its development. The first F16 was not as capable as the block 16 modification. JF is in its block II development. You have to wait to see the actual performance, plus it is exhibited in the Farnborough airshow means there is something good about this plane. PAF and all the other countries who are planning to acquire this plane will surely get good performance in low price tag, plus if western avionics is used in this plane. It will be a easy maintainance and more durable competitor. F16 took its time to proove itself. Give JF-17 the same amount of time and then u will know.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 20 Jul 2019, 12:48
by zero-one
https://hushkit.net/2019/07/19/flying-f ... ter-pilot/

The JF-17 Thunder is one of the rarest and least known fighter aircraft in the world. Operated solely by the Pakistan Air Force*, it is a capable fighter in the same class as the F-16. On conditions of anonymity, we spoke to one JF-17 pilot to learn more.

The views expressed are not the official positions of the PAF.
What is the best and worst thing about the JF-17?
“Best thing: Continuous upgrades of indigenous and Chinese weapons/electronic counter-measures suites, standoff capabilities of exceptional range i.e REK/IREK,CM-400,C-802AK etc. Worst : limited BVR load-out.”
What advice would you give to new pilots on the type? “Know your books and more importantly know the adversaries books. The modern jets are complex fighting machines so you must be at ease with all the systems in order to employ your jet with confidenc

For all new pilots: you have be a perfect blend of nerdiness and madness.. Fighter flying is nothing without study and passion.”
Interview with PAF MiG-19 pilot here
How would you rate the aircraft in terms of A. sustained turn rates B. instantaneous turn C. High alpha D. Acceleration ?
“In A-A config the aircraft is a treat to fly.. turns and rolls like a beauty..2/3 Tank config it becomes a little tricky to manoeuvre above 30,000..below 30,000 it’s superb..”
What has been your most memorable mission & why was that?

“3- 26 Feb 19, after the Indian Air Force’s attempted strikes in Pakistan border region- at 5 in the night took off in rain/low cloud with TS in the vicinity. Clouds were from 4,000 till 33,000 feet. Got out of clouds and controller reported two Su-30s ‘across the fence’. I targeted them at ranges beyond 50-60 NM but didn’t get authorisation to engage from controller, < so I> continued to grind above 32,000 flowing hot and cold 20-30NM from fence targeting the Su-30s. The IAF scrambled a total of six more Su-30s and finally I had eight Su-30s in front. Would turn hot and target each one in sequence from north to south (just spike them seeing whether they get lured in or not). After hitting texaco (air refuelling) returned to based amid rain and wet runway.. the first thing ground crew did was count the missiles.. gave a disappointed look once all were intact. the same profile continued for a couple of month but that first mission was an unbelievable experience.”

Which threat aircraft is most challenging and why? How confident do you against the M2000 and MiG-29? “Definitely the Su-30 is the most difficult aircraft in terms of current Indian Air Force inventory but we regularly fly against the F-16 and more importantly AMRAAM, so Adder and Alamo seem less worrisome (smily face). Mirage with MICA is definitely a real threat.”
93d6012be76c0d0723e6116ad9a42f86.jpg
The IAF’s Su-30 are the most formidable threat aircraft to the PAF.

How would you rate the JF-17s sensors & weapons? “KLJ-7 radar plus Indra radar warning receiver plus Self-Protection Jamming, ASEL targeting Pod equals a very potent system. We have air-ground/sea stand-off weapons with ranges of over 50NM, well out of SAM ranges”

Which aircraft have you flown DACT against- which was the most challenging and why?

“DACT : F-16 Block-52+ , Mirage, F:7P.

Turkish F-16s. Definitely F-16+AMRAAM combo was the most challenging.”

What is the best and worst thing about the cockpit?

“Best Thing : The Fully digital cockpit with 3 MFDs … Worst thing: Mmmm… no towel racks <smilie face>!”
What do the ground crew think of the aircraft?

“Some of them are from the F-7 / Mirage III/ V so its a big step up for them. Ground crew that have previously been on F-16 have their hearts with the Falcon.. but one thing is common i.e its our jet, we’ve made it and we own it.”
What is the greatest myth about the aircraft?
“Everything about it is a myth to the outside world because nobody operationally uses it. Only PAF flies it so envelope expansion in terms of capability continuously takes place and scant details are available to other.”
So how good is the JF-17? Here
Is it easy to land?

“The easiest aircraft to land amongst what I’ve flown till date. Much more easy than even basic trainers.”

Interview with Mirage 2000 pilot here

What’s the best way to fight a M2000?
“BVR: Avoid long range low DMC shots of MICA through defensive action in first flow..after that fight at equal advantage in BVR v BVR scenario IR v IR scenario: I don’t think the M2000 would be able to sustain prolonged turning engagement with a Thunder in air-air configuration.. in PAF we have a joke about mirages ” tally one mirage 6 o clock to me and I’m offensively engaged! <smilie face>“
Mirage2000_MICA_missile.jpg
Mirage 2000 with MICA- a threat to be respected.

How would you describe the Thunder in three words?
“Underrated, Reliable, Effective.”


“This is just a fun photo, done with a Thunder-shaped keychain while holding in the pattern”


In the valley… north of Pakistan near Kashmir

In a WVR fight would you rather be in an F-16 or JF-17?
“F-16 .. for the initial 180deg turn, then Thunder all the way. JF-17 with PL-10 mod (currently in pipeline) will trump F-16 with AIM-9M any day of the week, but currently on brute performance F-16 has the edge.”

dIl0U638-1.jpg
How good is the engine?

“With the current config engine produces sufficient power – but who doesn’t like a bit of extra thrust?

Which weapons are currently in frontline service on JF-17?

“Currently we have PL-5(IR missile) SD-10(BVR). C-802 anti ship standoff , REK/IREK air-surface standoff with multiple warhead/seekers/roles and then all the GP Bombs, CM-400 and host of other A/G weapons for precision strikes. All that with the integrated ASEL Pod for targeting.”

Interview with IAF MiG-25 pilot here
How would you rate the Thunder’s sensors?

“They are mission/role compatible with continuous upgrades being done on a regular basis. We’ve tested them in a high intensity stand off and everything worked liked a charm which goes to show the resilience of avionics in an intense environment.”

mVewXPWO.jpg
“This is just a fun photo, done with a Thunder-shaped keychain while holding in the pattern”


How comfortable and ergonomic is the cockpit?
“It is one of the most digitised cockpit I’ve flown till date. Even the F-16’s cockpit fades in comparison to the Thunder’s cockpit layout.”

Interview with MiG-27 pilot here

The IAF and PAF account of the 2019 vary, what actually happened? What are popular misunderstandings of it?
“We shot a MiG-21 on our side and a Su-30 on their side (which we didn’t claim initially because we already had the MiG-21 pilot in custody and that was enough of a message that we had the superiority). Plus we didn’t want to rub it in their face that we had shot two jets which in turn would escalate the problem. Needless to say, we have the wreckage of MiG-21 with all four missiles intact (hence no shooting of our jets took place) plus our electronic warfare (EW) platforms have all the radio transmissions of the IAF — and it’s a treat to listen to those confused and devastated calls of IAF pilots and controller which the shooting was taking place (IAF do not operate on secure radios so all their RT chatter is easily picked by EW platforms. Plus a MiG-21 in Block zero-one i.e below 20,000 with AA-12 Adder can only dream of getting a missile off rail against targets beyond 20NM (plus the Kopyo radar doesn’t support AA-12 launches beyond 20NM and that too on head-on aspects). Plus the evidence the Indians showed was a AMRAAM piece on their side claiming it was from a F-16 they shot. My simple question: if they found a piece of AMRAAM on their side but no jet attached to it then where did the wreckage go? Duhhh. And for a MiG to launch a missile against an F-16 and get it to A-pole and in the meantime get shot by another jet speaks poorly of the MiG-21’s pilot’s priorities as a fighter pilot. Nobody in their right frame of mind would enter the kill zone being spiked from all side and still continue hot without listening to any controller or formation member. In the intense comm jam environment with non secure radio the poor MiG-21 pilot didn’t receive any threat warnings given by his controller and I’m sure he didn’t have a moving map display telling him he had crossed the border and the comms were being jammed.”

9gM2oVQP.jpg
Have you fired live weapons, what was it like?

“I’ve fired General Purpose bombs of various sizes and done strafing. haven’t had the pleasure of letting go a missile yet.”

2019 analysis: How good is the Block II Pakistan JF-17 fighter aircraft today compared to its peers and potential threats? Here

Tell me something I don’t know about the JF-17..

“What the world doesn’t know about thunder? The autonomy it brings to PAF in terms of operations, numbers and capabilities is something that air forces around the world dream of the thing about thunder is that the factory that produces thunder is located in Pakistan..so we have all the support available inland. It is a nimble aircraft with a state of the art cockpit…it has air-air / air-ground stand off /air-sea stand off capability.. and a potent EW suite. It is continuously being upgraded with longer range weapons in all roles since we do all the integration ourselves.”

Re: lol

Unread postPosted: 22 Jul 2019, 08:54
by Corsair1963
black_spider wrote:F-16s are history now, JF-17 has already outclassed it. See what the taiwanese aviation industry is saying. No doubt it is inferior than F-15C but not to forget that JF-17 is still in its development. The first F16 was not as capable as the block 16 modification. JF is in its block II development. You have to wait to see the actual performance, plus it is exhibited in the Farnborough airshow means there is something good about this plane. PAF and all the other countries who are planning to acquire this plane will surely get good performance in low price tag, plus if western avionics is used in this plane. It will be a easy maintainance and more durable competitor. F16 took its time to proove itself. Give JF-17 the same amount of time and then u will know.


Sorry, the JF-17 isn't superior to the F-16. Unless, your comparing an early F-16 vs late JF-17.

Nonetheless, the JF-17 is a good fit for the PAF. Which, allows it to acquire a near F-16 equivalent at a low price.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 16:10
by mixelflick
It apparently put up a good showing in the recent India/PAK border dispute.

From the outside looking in, it's inferior to the F-16 in most metrics. But the addition of Chinese long range and short range AAM's, a more capable radar and implied tighter turning capability loom large. It's a great buy for the $ though, and serves as a much more capable platform vs. what it's replacing.

You have to give PAK this much: They made a decision and fielded a lightweight fighter in numbers, something India has been struggling with for years. They were successful in that regard because 1.) They knew what they wanted and 2.) They didn't expect it to be the end all/be all of their fighter fleet.

I get the sense the Indians don't quite know what they want: 2nd tier fighter but true multi-role aircraft to complement their SU-30MKI's, or a bird that's expected to trump even higher end, heavier air superiority fighters an adversary flies? This appears to be a function of its adversaries in the region.

PAK flies no heavy air to air powerhouses
China does

But economic realities being what they are, these aircraft need to be affordable. Tejas isn't getting it done, so they have to look elsewhere. The Mig-35 is probably their best bet. It isn't perfect, but should be more than a match for the JF-17. It would likely struggle however vs. China's Flankers, albeit it'd be much better off than Tejas or most single engine platforms. They're really in a tight spot, and could use the F35.

That's not happening however, so "stuck" they remain. The JF-17 looks to be just what the Dr. ordered for PAK, and a nice complement to the F-16. Good for them, and their industrial base/expertise sounds better off for it too...

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 16:34
by sprstdlyscottsmn
MiG-35 is just a slightly upgraded MiG-29K with OPTIONS for AESA and TVC.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 21:11
by Boman
India has requested additional 18 SU-30MKI's according to AFM.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2019, 00:20
by jedit
- PAF itself considers F16 its flagship fighter and not the JF17. Even PAF fanboys know this and PAF pilot interviews confirm the same thing. They may tout JF17 as an amazing platform, but they never say its better than the F16 overall.

- JF17 is meant to replace lower end fighters J7 and older Mirages in PAF. It is the 'best' solution to the problem PAF faces but not necessarily the better fighter among the two (F16 and JF17). I can understand why people make the comparison because both are single engined, have similar features and PAF operates both simultaneously. You cannot compare this budget fighter with the latest F16 blocks upwards of 50 until JF17 block 3 is in operation.

- PAF is highly unlikely to replace EoL F16s with JF17 as it will leave them with just 1 fighter platform once older J7s and Mirages are replaced. Hence JF17 is not in competition with the F16 even in the PAF.

Why PAF has invested so much in the JF17? ...

- It is not because JF17 is better than F16 but ...

1- It costs less to procure.

2- costs less to maintain.

3- Being the parent, PAF has primarily designed it to suit its various needs in the most basic variant rather than customize a third party platform that suits a wide range of needs globally but has to be customized to meet PAF requirements.

4- PAF has so far silently found problems and rolled out fixes in the second (already operational) and third generation (soon to be in production) without risking any negative publicity. It should become a really good low cost light fighter platform when the third generation is in serial production.

5- PAF has suffered force depletion numerous times in the past due to embargoes which made the country vulnerable to air threats. An example is the 1999 Kargil war when it had no BVR AAM to challenge BVR capable Indian Air Force and it could not procure any due to sanctions imposed after the 1998 nuclear tests. None of the 3 IAF aircraft that went down during 1999 Kargil war were credited to PAF fighters (1 IAF jet flamed out, another IAF jet and a Mi17 chopper were shot down by shoulder fired stingers).

6- JF17 allows PAF to train a generation of engineers, technicians and pilots who can learn from the existing range of foreign jets (including Mirages, F16s, J7s) PAF operates and then integrate improvements in the JF17. PAF took the chance during sanction era to convince the government to invest in a domestic fighter JV with China so JF17 was a desperate attempt to survive that has paid off well.

7- If PAF manages to sell it, its additional $$ for further improvements. If they don't manage to sell it, adversaries have less actionable intel about the platform which gives PAF the element of surprise in any engagement. Even today, JF17's role in the 27th Feb 2019 engagement with Indian Air Force is largely unknown. What is known is that JF17 was a force multiplier and the sheer numbers allowed PAF to overwhelm IAF defenses, shoot down at least 1 Mig21 (confirmed), allegedly another Su30MKI, and make them shoot their own Mi17 chopper (confirmed) with no confirmed losses of its own.

8- JF17 will always be available to PAF in its best iteration unlike F16 which may always have a version better than JF17 but it won't always be available to the PAF due to cost or geopolitical situation.

9- Last but not the least, PAF has a replacement for the ageing Mirage which is currently the only platform PAF has to carry nukes. F16 modifications PAF made to carry nukes were undone when PAF received US aid in the form of F16 upgrades as part of the war on terror. The upgrades helped F16s become more potent in conventional war, improved radar and AMRAAMs which helped it visibly dominate in the latest 27th Feb skirmish with IAF, but again, they lost the core feature PAF needed to offer nuclear deterrence.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2019, 00:34
by jedit
Boman wrote:India has requested additional 18 SU-30MKI's according to AFM.


unrelated to the thread in question, other than an indirect link that JF17 is a direct adversary to the Su30. They aren't the same class of fighters though.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2019, 06:42
by Corsair1963
Has Pakistan ever sent F-16's to China for a Military Exercise??? Is that even allowed??? (i.e. US)

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 03 Sep 2019, 15:08
by invictus
Corsair1963 wrote:Has Pakistan ever sent F-16's to China for a Military Exercise??? Is that even allowed??? (i.e. US)


No only JF.17s, Mirages and F.7 series aircraft,the last Shaheen series exercise was organised at Paf base Bholari which is basically an F.16 base with single squadron of ADF vipers so maybe A-A engagements between the vipers and chinese aircraft might have happened but not sure about it.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2019, 07:48
by weasel1962
If the Pakistanis have it, certain the Chinese have it too. JF-17 with the wing-kit JDAM-equivalent.

https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/stat ... 7248965632

That's something the PAF F-16s haven't got.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2019, 11:44
by Shimud
They are operating F-16s since almost 40 years now.
Those who were trained and first flew it at Lake AFB eventually found their way in design and development process of JF-17. It includes pilots and engineers.
They were the second after Israeli AF to put it into real world combat, earned several aerial victories against Soviet and Afghan AFs, without any loss.
This experience and exposure gave them an unmatched capability to influence the weapon, mechanical and electronics' design aspects of JF-17 and in many cases, they improved them.
They are wise to build upon one block after another, in a limited number of 50 aircraft each, while removing the deficiencies of the previous block and improving upon the advantages. Its a continuous refining process. Its a continuously evolving fighter aircraft.

None of us could claim that a JF-17 is better than an F-16 but we must give them credit where its due.
JF-17 has given them an edge over their enemies, in both qualitative and quantitative terms.

An AF which was flying obselete 60s era fighters is gradually replacing all of them with a 4th gen (3rd in Chinese terminology) multipurpose jet.

Not to mention that during February 2019 skirmishes over Kashmir, PAF used its 60s era Mirage 3/5 in a much more effective manner, as compared to how badly the modern Mirage 2000Es of IAF performed.

Re: F-16 versus JF-17 Joint Pakistan/Chinese fighter

Unread postPosted: 05 Sep 2019, 10:32
by weasel1962
invictus wrote:No only JF.17s, Mirages and F.7 series aircraft,the last Shaheen series exercise was organised at Paf base Bholari which is basically an F.16 base with single squadron of ADF vipers so maybe A-A engagements between the vipers and chinese aircraft might have happened but not sure about it.


The PAF has special restrictions set up prior to the acquisitions due to the concerns that US had in view of the closer relations to China as early as 1982.

Example:
https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/114307

PLAAF may have trained with other force's F-16s e.g. Thailand's falcon strike exercise with PLA J-10s/Su-27s.