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Unread postPosted: 29 Dec 2006, 14:14
by Danimal
If we're talking about a dogfight here there would be a significant impact on the F-16 if it were loaded down like an F-15. F-15's wouldn't lost much performance by having all it's stations filled. But if we're talking a F-16CJ with maybe AIM-120's on 1 and 9 and AIM-9's on 2 and 8, with maybe a centerline fuel tank, I think the 16 would take it WVR.

Unread postPosted: 26 Feb 2007, 11:29
by Aussie_Falcon_Freak
I think that my question fits in best here, so here goes...

I have a DVD on the F-16 and there is a comment at the start of it that rather confuses me. I hope someone here, can explain it for me..

They make the comment that the F-15 Eagle is "undoubtedly the best dedicated dogfighter around today, but proved too costly as an export aircraft for other countries to afford it."

Does this statement purely mean that the F-16 is a far more versatile multi-role aircraft than the Eagle is?

This cannot be based on performance and manouverability alone can it? Even someone with an untrained eye such as myself can see that the 16 moves a lot sharper than a 15 appears to.. Perhaps this statement then goes back to what one of the earlier posters mentioned about 15s training only for air to air and nothing else?

I just found it an odd thing to say on a DVD about an F-16...

Thanks for your help...

Unread postPosted: 27 Feb 2007, 01:25
by hansundfranz
Replace "dogfighter" with "air superiority fighter" and you´ll get what the comment should really mean. Damm journalists, sometimes they just don´t know better and sometimes they simplyfy so much that it ends up beeing misinformation

Unread postPosted: 28 Feb 2007, 16:42
by FDiron
I've heard that the F-15 is a better dogfighter than the F-16 due to its wing area, ability to pull more than 9gs, and thrust to weight ratio.

So, here are some questions. Can the F-15 outturn the F-16? Can the F-15 out-accelerate the F-16? Which plane has a better climb rate? Which plane can stay in afterburner longer?

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2007, 05:15
by Raptor_One
The F-15C only outperforms the F-16 at high altitudes. At medium and low altitudes, the F-16 is more maneuverable and accelerates faster or just as fast.

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2007, 15:32
by Purplehaze
The F-15C only outperforms the F-16 at high altitudes. At medium and low altitudes, the F-16 is more maneuverable and accelerates faster or just as fast.

This is why these two compliment each other so well. Also the 15 has better eyes to reach out and touch someone.....LOL

Unread postPosted: 25 Mar 2007, 22:08
by Velvet
Block 60's are AESA, block 50-52+'s being saold now are APG-68v9 which is a very capable but still mechanically scanned array.

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2010, 11:22
by strikeeagle
The F-15 was NOT designed as in interceptor. it is a AIR SUPERORITY FIGHTER.....AKA DOGFIGHTING

Unread postPosted: 12 Nov 2011, 11:29
by skyy
BVR, no doubt that the Eagle is superior. WVR, I'd still bet more money on the Eagle driver. As mentioned, they fly A/A way more, including BFM. Plus, the F-15C can fly at high alpha/low airspeeds (tighter turn radius) way more effectively, while being nearly about the same at higher-speed rate fights.

Really, the hardest part about fighting a falcon is just staying tally. Even that's not too hard to do. :)

F-15Es are a different beast entirely...I'd say the average falcon driver can outfight the average mud hen crew 90% of the time. It's not really fair, though...F-15Es always fly with conformals/pods/racks/tanks, so the T/W is just sad, nevermind the drag.

A clean block 50+, though unrealistic, would be tough to fight rate-wise. Once it gets slow, it's alpha is still severely limited. You gotta love having two gigantic vertical tails...

Unread postPosted: 30 Oct 2013, 07:01
by swingsbothways
Hey guys, I'm currently an F-15C pilot with about 444 hours in the Eagle and I just got my dream assignment, to crosstrain and fly lawndarts. I'm so excited to go to high key, the Eagle is fun and all, but RTB'ing to High Tac Initial everyday is just getting boring. As far as the Eagle/Lawndart question...I think the Eagle was designed more for people who do well at pilot training and the jack of all trades lawndart is best suited for your average Joe.

Take break turns for example: In the Eagle, you have to bring your A game to dial up a monster break turn...correct airspeed for alt, correct initial stick travel, correct buffet assesment, smooth but aggressive finish. Too little, and you break like a T-38, too much and you over gumby. In the lawndart though, you just hit corner, tell HAL you want to turn, and when you wake up, you find you've pulled 9Gs. This probably helps explain why I'm being transferred to F-16s, my best Eagle break turn ever was 7.2Gs!

And I can't wait to drop something off my airplane on purpose! I know Dos Gringos say you can teach a monkey to throw poop and pickle, but up until this point in my flying career, everytime something fell off my jet, I had to write a dropped object report.

Another thing I'm looking forward to is CAPS! In the Eagle, we have to memorize the whole checklist so there is no need for CAPS/Boldface. In the F-16, they boil it down so I've only got to remember a couple critical actions: Wing Off= Eject, Engine Quit = Eject. Busted DOR = Eject. It's gonna be awesome.

Can't wait for my January TX. Pretty sure I'll be teaching BFM through TI...and hard is SA? You put the thing on the thing and pickle...right?


Unread postPosted: 30 Oct 2013, 07:36
by geogen
If only USAF was procuring FBW F-15E+ today (essentially an F-15SA + APG-82 + PAWS II+ MLD(?) + Elta jammer(?)) as part of a stopgap recap strat... Remove the CFT, configure with centerline tank and arm with 4x latest/best semi-conformal BVR rounds + 4x AIM-9x if flying your described 1v1 DACT exercise. I would wager your USAF block 50 software would alert you to make a quick retreat upon assessing the disadvantage ;) With all respect and thanks for your service. In my humble opinion.