F-16 versus Mirage 2000

nomad · by **nomad** » 10 Jul 2007, 18:57

And to post a reply about the topic subject from the aspect of Greece...

Both F-16 and M2000 were bought by Greece in the middle 80 's. It was an absolutely strange decision if you think of the small number of aircrafts (40+40)

But the there is an explanation about that. At the 70 's Greek air force had a great advantage at the territory due to the different type of aircraft: F-4 (long range-BVR) A7 (great bomber) Mirage F1 (superior in dogfights). That is the way that HAF believed that had to move in the new 3 gen aircrafts. Both aircrafts would operate together. Each one has advantage and disadvantage in some areas. So why not putting them work together... the combination was great.

But things didn t get absolutely that way and the reason was only one: The STUPID FRENCH MARKETING.

When there was a chance of extra plane orders the French did anything possible to loose a future order -Greece want to upgrade the mirage? Ok if you want to upgrade them pay the upgrade as much as you paid for the whole aircraft (a rumor said that their first price was between 30 to 35 mill.)
- You want to buy new M2000-5. Pay 10-20% more than an F-16

Pretty obvious why Greece put a direct order for the Eurofighter and skipped a comparison with the Rafale.

Cad · by **Cad** » 10 Jul 2007, 20:19

Hmm...

The Greece mirage-2000 was ordered in 1985...in service probably by 1988
block 30 f-16 were ordered in 1987 and delivered between 1988-1989
let's count them as cold war legacy and don't go much in details...
turkey receives his first F-16 block_30 in 1987 and the last in 1990.
by the end of the cold war era Greece has 80 modern jets and turkey 44 witch were build in turkey...

By 1990 URSS AND BULGARIA are no longer a treat to TURKEY but iran, irak, siria are ...obvious 44 jets is not enough for such a big country.
another 117 jets are build between 1990-19995 ( golf war 1 just happens to be in that time frame)

Egypt received a similar number during the same period to replace his soviet air-fleet.
:beer:

With the block 50 you REALLY start going overbord.....but what the hell : Saudi Arabia, Kuweit and the Emirates are paying the bill :cheers:

Greece is ordering block 50 of there own and it`s Paying for them ...
uncle Sam is very happy to deliver these jets ( 1 month before the schedule) but it`s very clear by now what these jets are for...

I would not go over the following orders (numbers are similar for both sides) attrition could play role here but I doubt it .

For the block 50 jets, I have to agree with Pilotasso, they are not really needed...

avon1944 · by **avon1944** » 10 Jul 2007, 23:11

I saw the video of "Dogfight HAF Mirage vs. TuAF F-16". Among the You Tube videos there was one, "Super Dogfight 2"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5bA60Ys ... ed&search=

What was the aircraft shot down by the F-15D or E (the video was taken from the WSO position) and what was this video from a movie?

Adrian

Cad · by **Cad** » 11 Jul 2007, 00:35

Well it was the mig-28 of course...

If you watch carefully you could see mav in that inverted super bug giving Ice the birdie.... and are those fishy mirage fighters flown by Israeli pilots below the radar coverage. It's operation opera 2 only bigger and much lower.... :poke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqlbg_e ... ed&search=
this is dogfight between a Mirage F-1 and an F-5 Tiger :shock:

Cad · by **Cad** » 12 Jul 2007, 17:52

Does nuclear capability counts for the multi-role issue?

Lieven · by **Lieven** » 13 Jul 2007, 06:55

:: Please stay on topic guys. This is not a TuAF vs HAF thread. Orkun has been banned and I've cleaned out above posts. ::

Cad · by **Cad** » 19 Jul 2007, 19:55

Mirage-2000-5 is getting the Thales Topsight helmet-mounted display / sighting system. Considering the instantaneous turn rate of the Mirage this system together with MICA IR is expanding the jet ability to fire at high-of boresight angles.

a1rao · by **a1rao** » 13 Sep 2007, 21:48

Not to go off topic, but had a question about the Super-530D. Can the missile be integrated with Phazatron's super Kopyo radar? Also, what modifications are needed to a older baseline Mirage-2000C to allow it to fire the IR version of the Mica.

Cad · by **Cad** » 14 Sep 2007, 12:18

Yes but why? Software and wirring.

a1rao · by **a1rao** » 14 Sep 2007, 21:36

Only because I have heard that the 530D's CWS seeker makes it harder to integrate with other radars. The Indian AF integrated 530Ds on their Fulcrums. I am guessing that the Kopyo radar, which is installed on upgraded Mig-21s, can also be formatted in a similar fashion?

"Software and wirring."

So no major changes to the actual radar itself? For example, an early RDM radar-

boilermaker · by **boilermaker** » 11 Mar 2017, 18:00

ACSheva wrote:One thing I dont get is why the rear view on the Mirages is so poor. Does any body know the reason for that type of design?

Shev

Interceptors with aggresive mindset are not geared towards defense but offense. The Mig 29 and F35 are also that way

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 12 Jul 2017, 13:09

Mirage 2000 pilot interview: Cutting it in the ‘Electric Cakeslice’

I wanted the French Exchange because it was based in Provence and the Mirage is a unique airframe :beer:

https://hushkit.net/2016/10/13/mirage-2 ... cakeslice/

Includes a few comparisons.

boilermaker · by **boilermaker** » 15 Jul 2017, 08:58

In this article the US Pilot flying against m2000 is not impressed

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/u-s-ma ... 1796811256

jedit · by **jedit** » 26 Sep 2019, 06:04

basher54321 wrote:Mirage 2000 pilot interview: Cutting it in the ‘Electric Cakeslice’

I wanted the French Exchange because it was based in Provence and the Mirage is a unique airframe

https://hushkit.net/2016/10/13/mirage-2 ... cakeslice/

Includes a few comparisons.

A new interview of a Mirage 2000 pilot from India has popped up on the same site and this pilot is not a Viper fan.

https://hushkit.net/2019/09/25/flying-f ... 000-pilot/

IAF pilot says F16 is underpowered (first they said on mission load and then just casually said its underpowered) and Mirage 2000 can beat it any day. He also said Mig 21 can beat Viper in an instantaneous turn, I wonder how that would happen and comparing F16 to Su30 and Mirage 2000 would be unfair on F16 as its an older design (that essentially has no chance of winning?). I would appreciate any F16 experts/pilot comments on this.

vm · by vm » 26 Sep 2019, 06:55

jedit wrote:
basher54321 wrote:Mirage 2000 pilot interview: Cutting it in the ‘Electric Cakeslice’

I wanted the French Exchange because it was based in Provence and the Mirage is a unique airframe

https://hushkit.net/2016/10/13/mirage-2 ... cakeslice/

Includes a few comparisons.

A new interview of a Mirage 2000 pilot from India has popped up on the same site and this pilot is not a Viper fan.

https://hushkit.net/2019/09/25/flying-f ... 000-pilot/

IAF pilot says F16 is underpowered (first they said on mission load and then just casually said its underpowered) and Mirage 2000 can beat it any day. He also said Mig 21 can beat Viper in an instantaneous turn, I wonder how that would happen and comparing F16 to Su30 and Mirage 2000 would be unfair on F16 as its an older design (that essentially has no chance of winning?). I would appreciate any F16 experts/pilot comments on this.

Nice. Sneaky Pakistani trying to get a reaction from the f16 community. Let's see whether he succeeds.