MiG-23MLD vs F-16

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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piston

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Unread post09 Oct 2017, 17:26

pmi wrote:Google Project Constant Peg & the 4477th TES. There have been other programs involved with testing Russian aircraft, but that is the one you'll find the most info about (Constant Peg's existence was declassified in '06).



I'm afraid that WarPac MiG-s were tested beyond "Constant Peg" ...
Also no joy with "Constant peg" at google (no .pdf with original docs found).. :roll:
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pmi

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Unread post09 Oct 2017, 19:34

piston wrote:I'm afraid that WarPac MiG-s were tested beyond "Constant Peg" ...
Also no joy with "Constant peg" at google (no .pdf with original docs found).. :roll:


I stated as much in my post. Have Drill, Have Doughnot (which focused on the Mig-17 & 21) or whatever follows ons there have been. But it is going to be harder to find data on later DIA or USAF programs as they are still classified.

The best place to start is Red Eagles: America’s Secret MiGs by Stevie Davies.
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lrrpf52

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Unread post01 Jul 2018, 04:50

pucara70 wrote:Well, the MiG-23 MLD or Flogger-G, is a superb fighter and interceptor, but the F-16 is more agile and can do more manouvers in the sky. The AA-8 Aphid (R-60) is similar to any sidewinder version, except the brand new AIM-9X, and the AA-11 Archer and AA-10 Alamo are better than all the Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles, only the AMRAAM is better. In a real engagement the pilot would decide the combat, the machines are quite similar in possibilities, specialy if the MiG has the AA-11 and AA-10 missiles.


Russian BVR missile real world record is garbage, close enough to 0% pk to round down, even when illuminated by Su-27 radar at the hands of some of the most experienced Russian Su-27 pilots firing the R-27.

Whenever I see these claims about Russian BVR missile superiority, I know they're based on repetition of other people's statements without any technical analysis and performance.

The US/UK/NATO did one of the most exhaustive technical exploitation programs on the MiG-29 with R-27 and R-73. The R-27 live shots on target drones was absolute garbage both in the UK test area and down in Florida.

The R-73, on the other hand, performed as advertised with the HMS, with thrust vectoring. It was a large impetus in re-fielding of a HMS and Helmet-Cued AIM-9 variant.

As far as BVR missiles go, the US and NATO partners, as well as Israel in particular, have the most real-world BVR missile kill experience. The AIM-7E accounted for the majority of MiG kills in SEA, mostly MiG-21s.

The F-15C/AIM-7M had 24 of 32 F-15C A2A kills in Desert storm.

The AIM-120 has been used multiple times for BVR and WVR kills.

The Israeli missiles have been used well over a hundred times to yield A2A kills on Soviet-built fighters, many of those having been AIM-7s.

Russian-built BVR missiles.....crickets. Not saying they haven't magically fabricated them, but combat record and lessons-learned from actual missile performance, plus live testing in the West smokes the Russian and Eastern examples by factors in the hundreds to zero range if you do the math.

For every single one of those Israeli F-15A/F-15C/F-16A kills from 1979-1982, there is not only HUD footage for the HUD camera, but radar footage in the data tapes as well.

Israelis are very open about combat losses, as is the US, and have been so for decades.
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mk82

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Unread post01 Jul 2018, 10:20

lrrpf52 wrote:
pucara70 wrote:Well, the MiG-23 MLD or Flogger-G, is a superb fighter and interceptor, but the F-16 is more agile and can do more manouvers in the sky. The AA-8 Aphid (R-60) is similar to any sidewinder version, except the brand new AIM-9X, and the AA-11 Archer and AA-10 Alamo are better than all the Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles, only the AMRAAM is better. In a real engagement the pilot would decide the combat, the machines are quite similar in possibilities, specialy if the MiG has the AA-11 and AA-10 missiles.


Russian BVR missile real world record is garbage, close enough to 0% pk to round down, even when illuminated by Su-27 radar at the hands of some of the most experienced Russian Su-27 pilots firing the R-27.

Whenever I see these claims about Russian BVR missile superiority, I know they're based on repetition of other people's statements without any technical analysis and performance.

The US/UK/NATO did one of the most exhaustive technical exploitation programs on the MiG-29 with R-27 and R-73. The R-27 live shots on target drones was absolute garbage both in the UK test area and down in Florida.

The R-73, on the other hand, performed as advertised with the HMS, with thrust vectoring. It was a large impetus in re-fielding of a HMS and Helmet-Cued AIM-9 variant.

As far as BVR missiles go, the US and NATO partners, as well as Israel in particular, have the most real-world BVR missile kill experience. The AIM-7E accounted for the majority of MiG kills in SEA, mostly MiG-21s.

The F-15C/AIM-7M had 24 of 32 F-15C A2A kills in Desert storm.

The AIM-120 has been used multiple times for BVR and WVR kills.

The Israeli missiles have been used well over a hundred times to yield A2A kills on Soviet-built fighters, many of those having been AIM-7s.

Russian-built BVR missiles.....crickets. Not saying they haven't magically fabricated them, but combat record and lessons-learned from actual missile performance, plus live testing in the West smokes the Russian and Eastern examples by factors in the hundreds to zero range if you do the math.

For every single one of those Israeli F-15A/F-15C/F-16A kills from 1979-1982, there is not only HUD footage for the HUD camera, but radar footage in the data tapes as well.

Israelis are very open about combat losses, as is the US, and have been so for decades.


Absolutely spot on!
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