Single or double Sitter F-16: which is better?

Gladiatos · by **Gladiatos** » 14 Oct 2003, 08:06

I would like to hear the views of people in this forum...

I like the single seater better. It looks better, it's usually more agile and you won't have a WSO behind your back who might screw things up if he chickens out:)

Thats my view... what's yours?

**Guest** · by **Guest** » 14 Oct 2003, 08:39

There is no difference between the two, and in the double seater, the pilot in the back isn't a WSO like in F-14's or F-18's. The F-16 is a single seat fighter and there are some double seat version, but these are used mainly for training.

Bjorn · by **Bjorn** » 14 Oct 2003, 08:46

Sorry to disappoint you guest. In the early days of the F-16 your view was correct, where the two-seater was a fully missionized training variant. In the latest batches of block 50/52 and block 60 vipers, the rear cockpit can be either equipped as a training aircraft, but can also be configured as a WSO post.

Did you realy think the Israeli's would order 110 two-seat block 50 F-16's as training aircraft??...... I don't think so. These planes have a WSO post in the rear cockpit to execute a wide range of attack and strike missions where you need a second crew-member to take some workload off the shoulders of the driver.

Greets,

hawkeye · by **hawkeye** » 14 Oct 2003, 09:51

Bjorn wrote:Sorry to disappoint you guest. In the early days of the F-16 your view was correct, where the two-seater was a fully missionized training variant. In the latest batches of block 50/52 and block 60 vipers, the rear cockpit can be either equipped as a training aircraft, but can also be configured as a WSO post.

Did you realy think the Israeli's would order 110 two-seat block 50 F-16's as training aircraft??...... I don't think so. These planes have a WSO post in the rear cockpit to execute a wide range of attack and strike missions where you need a second crew-member to take some workload off the shoulders of the driver.

Greets,

I agree with Bjorn.

I've sat in the F-16D at the recent RSAF 35th aniversary open house and according to the pilot , the WSO can also fly the plane in case the pilot is injured and punch out at a safe location.

The WSO's primary mission is target acquisition and 'weapons management' . Have I got it right?? :wink:

Gladiatos · by **Gladiatos** » 14 Oct 2003, 10:15

yup...i was there but waited to long...so I only tried the F-5s....hawkeye....did you go to the BCDS?

hawkeye · by **hawkeye** » 14 Oct 2003, 10:54

Gladiatos wrote:yup...i was there but waited to long...so I only tried the F-5s....hawkeye....did you go to the BCDS?

What's BCDS?

I was there on the last day from 11am to 6pm and got sunburned!
Next time I'm bringing the sunblock!

I was in the cockpits of the F-16D, F-5T & A-4SU.

No time for the F-16C, F-5S and TA-4SU.

The Fokker F-50 and E2C Hawkeye were off limits as far as the cockpits were concerned. :wink:

Phoenix · by **Phoenix** » 14 Oct 2003, 10:54

Another thing you need to remember that while double seaters offer you an extra pair of eyes to watch for missiles and such, the plane will be haevier and generally it won't be as 'hot' in ACM as the single seat version. Furthermore the ejection sequence takes longer because the pilot and the WSO are ejected separately, so by the time the pilot ejects, the plane might very well be in pieces.
However, on strike missions when you need to take care of a lot of things, a WSO is worth his or her wieght in gold... well maybe not really, but you get my point.

DeepSpace · by **DeepSpace** » 14 Oct 2003, 12:11

Agree with Bjorn, Israel just don't have the money to spend on 110 "training aircrafts". The WSO also operates must of the A-G weapons (the guided weapons)

Gladiatos · by **Gladiatos** » 14 Oct 2003, 12:31

What's BCDS?

I was there on the last day from 11am to 6pm and got sunburned!
Next time I'm bringing the sunblock!

Well I cant remember the actual name of the place
Its where the pilots review their mission after training with ACMI pods...

Which day were you there hawk?
Btw I was there on SAT from opening to 3 plus...

hawkeye · by **hawkeye** » 14 Oct 2003, 12:38

Gladiatos wrote:
What's BCDS?

I was there on the last day from 11am to 6pm and got sunburned!
Next time I'm bringing the sunblock!

Well I cant remember the actual name of the place
Its where the pilots review their mission after training with ACMI pods...

Which day were you there hawk?
Btw I was there on SAT from opening to 3 plus...

I went on Sun.

Tried the mockup cockpit of the Typhoon!
I've a feeling the RSAF might pick the Typhoon as the next fighter.

No chance to try out the flight simulators. :wink:

Gladiatos · by **Gladiatos** » 14 Oct 2003, 16:25

i tried the typhoon simulater....not bad....all they let you do is land....i blew the plane up when I taxied on the grass....too used to my WWII simulater at home....they sun was very very packed...

hawkeye · by **hawkeye** » 14 Oct 2003, 16:48

Gladiatos,

I've found out the meaning of BCDS - Base Central Debriefing Station. :wink:

VprWzl · by **VprWzl** » 14 Oct 2003, 18:16

Quote - "Another thing you need to remember that while double seaters offer you an extra pair of eyes to watch for missiles and such, the plane will be haevier and generally it won't be as 'hot' in ACM as the single seat version. Furthermore the ejection sequence takes longer because the pilot and the WSO are ejected separately, so by the time the pilot ejects, the plane might very well be in pieces."

While the D-model may be heavier for an Israeli or a Singapore F-16 in the USAF F-16's (and all the others w/o spines) the D-model is actually several hindred pounds lighter. The reason is that the D replaces fuel to get an extra body into the trunk, but that makes the D - in similar configurations to a C- have less loiter time and/or range. A clean D is actually faster and more manueverable in a fight due to smoother airflow.

As for the delayed ejection time - it is minimal because of how fast the ejection system is. It shouldn't affect survival except in the most extreme situations.

As for WSO's - you can have them! In my experience, they seem to detract more than add to a fight. The exception would be in the very low level, high threat LGB environment - one which you don't see taught now.

SwedgeII · by **SwedgeII** » 10 Jun 2004, 20:14

Station wagon with little gas tank or sports car, your call!!

mark · by **mark** » 11 Jun 2004, 02:54

"As for the delayed ejection time - it is minimal "

Its approximately .4 second longer for a 2 seat ejecion.