F-16 versus anybody

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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mor10
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by mor10 » 10 Jun 2004, 20:24

So far most of the topics on Vipers versus other plain contains some facts, but mostly opinions and assumptions.

What we need is a matrix where the most essential facts that wins a dog fight are listed. This obviously excludes the pilot, as he/she may be one of the biggest variables in the first place.

I'm not an expert in any way on this topic, hence I like to see facts to be able to make my own judgements. Does anyone know of, or have the ability/inclination/time to build such a matrix (spreadsheet/table)? It would be a grat reference tool for many topics here.
Former Flight Control Technican - We keep'em flying
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IDCrewDawg
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by IDCrewDawg » 10 Jun 2004, 20:50

Does anyone know of, or have the ability/inclination/time to build such a matrix (spreadsheet/table)? It would be a grat reference tool for many topics here.


That sort of product has the potential to be a great intel tool as well and might get flaged for being such and get removed. Becarefull when you make it.
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Lisafer
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by Lisafer » 01 Apr 2005, 02:35

Good point. Chances are someones done one already. If you asked around, you'd probably be able to dig one up. Hell there are enough bored people out there with a big enough knowledge base to do so. lol.
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toan
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by toan » 05 Jun 2005, 09:50

F/A-22, F/B-22, F-35A, F-35B, F-35C, F-15E+, F-16E, F/A-18 E/F, EF-2000, Rafale B/C/M, and Su-35

A. Empty weight:
  • FA-22: 19,489 kg (IDR)
  • FB-22: 22,000 kg (IDR)
  • F-35A: 12,250 kg (http://www.defence.gov.au/jsf/factsheet_jsf.asp)
  • F-35B: 13,608 kg
  • F-35C: 13,888 kg
  • F-15E: 16,555 kg (with CFT and F-100-PW-229)
  • F-15E+: 16,790 kg(with CFT and F-110-GE-132)
  • F-16E: 9,980 kg
  • F-18E: 13,860 kg
  • EF-2K: 11,150 kg
  • Rafale B: 9,670 kg
  • Rafale C: 9,400 kg
  • Rafale M: 9,900 kg
  • Su-35: 18,400 kg
B. Internal Fuel:
  • FA-22: 8,323 kg
  • FB-22: 16,000 kg
  • F-35A: 8,165 kg+
  • F-35B: 6,300 kg
  • F-35C: 8,901 kg
  • F-15E/E+: 5,920 kg + CFT
  • F-16E: 3,160 kg + CFT
  • F-18E: 6,532 kg
  • EF-2K: 4,996 kg + CFT
  • Rafale B: 4,240 kg + CFT
  • Rafale C: 4,500 kg + CFT
  • Rafale M: 4,500 kg + CFT
  • Su-35: 10,250 kg
C. Wing Surface Area:
  • FA-22: 78.03 m2
  • FB-22: 110.00 m2
  • F-35A: 42.74 m2
  • F-35B: 42.74 m2
  • F-35C: 57.60 m2
  • F-15E/E+: 56.50 m2
  • F-16E: 27.87 m2
  • F-18E: 46.45 m2
  • EF-2K: 50.00 m2
  • Rafale B/C/M: 45.70 m2
  • Su-35: 62.00 m2
D. Comparison of air-combat weight, T/W ratio, and wing-load among these fighters at the "fair" condition (with the same kind and the amount of AAM weapons + roughly equal combat radius):
  • FA-22: 6,500 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
  • FB-22: 7,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
  • F-35A/B/C: 5,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
  • F-15E/E+: 7,000 kg (internal + CFT) fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
  • F-16E: 4,000 kg (internal + CFT) fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
  • F-18E: 6,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + AIM-9X*2
  • EF-2000: 4,996 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + ASRAAM*2
  • RAFALE B/C/M: 4,500 /4,240 kg internal fuel + MICA EM*4 + MICA IR*2
  • Su-35: 6,700 kg internal fuel + R-77*4 + R-73M2*2
E. Air-combat weight:
  • FA-22: 27,000 kg
  • FB-22: 30,000 kg
  • F-35A: 18,300 kg
  • F-35B: 19,650 kg
  • F-35C: 19,950 kg
  • F-15E: 24,750 kg
  • F-15E+: 25,000 kg
  • F-16E: 15,000 kg
  • F-18E: 20,950 kg
  • EF-2K: 17,150 kg
  • Rafale B: 14,900 kg
  • Rafale C: 14,800 kg
  • Rafale M: 15,300 kg
  • Su-35: 26,250 kg
F. Wing-load (E/C):
  • FA-22: 346.0 kg/m2 (Score: 1.000)
  • FB-22: 272.7 kg/m2 (Score: 1.269)
  • F-35A: 428.2 kg/m2 (Score: 0.808 )
  • F-35B: 459.8 kg/m2 (Score: 0.753)
  • F-35C: 346.4 kg/m2 (Score: 1.000)
  • F-15E: 438.8 kg/m2 (Score: 0.789)
  • F-15E+: 442.5 kg/m2 (Score: 0.782)
  • F-16E: 538.2 kg/m2 (Score: 0.643)
  • F-18E: 451.0 kg/m2 (Score: 0.767)
  • EF-2K: 343.0 kg/m2 (Score: 1.009)
  • Rafale B: 326.0 kg/m2 (Score: 1.061)
  • Rafale C: 323.9 kg/m2 (Score: 1.068 )
  • Rafale M: 334.8 kg/m2 (Score: 1.033)
  • Su-35: 423.4 kg/m2 (Score: 0.817)
G. T/W ratio, sea-level(AB thrust / Maximal military thrust):
  • FA-22: 1.270 / 0.857 (F-119, 37,800 Ib / 25,500 Ib *2), Score: 1.000 / 1.000
  • FB-22: 1.210 / 0.789 (F-135, 40,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *2), Score: 0.953 / 0.921
  • FB-22: 1.300 / 0.789 (F-135, 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *2), Score: 1.024 / 0.921
  • F-35A: 0.991~1.065 / 0.647 (F-135, 40,000 ~ 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *1): Score: 0.780~0.839 / 0.755
  • F-35B: 0.923~0.992 / 0.603 (F-135, 40,000 ~ 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *1): Score: 0.726~0.781 / 0.703
  • F-35C: 0.909~0.977 / 0.594 (F-135, 40,000 ~ 43,000 Ib / 26,100 Ib *1): Score: 0.715~0.769 / 0.692
  • F-15E: 1.067 / 0.652 (F-100-PW-229, nowadays, 29,100 Ib / 17,800 Ib *2): Score: 0.840 / 0.761
  • F-15E+: 1.161 / 0.689 (F-110-GE-132, peace time, 32,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.914 / 0.804
  • F-15E+: 1.234 / 0.689 (F-110-GE-132, war time, 34,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.972 / 0.804
  • F-16E: 0.968 / 0.575 (F-110-GE-132, peace time, 32,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *1): Score: 0.762 / 0.671
  • F-16E: 1.029 / 0.575 (F-110-GE-132, the war time, 34,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib *1): Score: 0.810 / 0.671
  • F-16E: 1.119 / ????? (F-110-GE-XXX, post-2010 ?, 37,000 Ib / ?????Ib *1): Score: 0.881 / ?????
  • F-18E: 0.953 / 0.606 (F-414-GE-400, nowadays, 22,000 Ib / 14,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.750 / 0.707
  • F-18E: 1.148 / 0.729 (F-414-GE-???, post-2015?, 26,500 Ib / 16,850 Ib *2): Score: 0.904 / 0.851
  • EF-2K: 1.071 / 0.714 (EJ200, peace time, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.843 / 0.833
  • EF-2K: 1.130 / 0.821 (EJ200, the war time, 21,370 Ib / 15,525 Ib *2): Score: 0.890 / 0.956
  • EF-2K: 1.178 / 0.821 (EJ200, small revision, 22,275 Ib / 15,525 Ib *2): Score: 0.927 / 0.956
  • EF-2K: 1.222 / 0.857 (EJ230, post-2010 ?, 23,100 Ib / 16,200 Ib *2): Score: 0.962 / 1.000
  • EF-2K: 1.400 ~ 1.428 / 0.926 (EJ270, post-2015 ?, 27,000 Ib / 17,500 Ib *2): Score: 1.102 ~ 1.124 / 1.081
  • RAFA B: 1.027 / 0.685 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2): Score: 0.809 / 0.799
  • RAFA B: 1.209 / 0.806 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.952 / 0.940
  • RAFA C: 1.038 / 0.692 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2): Score: 0.817 / 0.807
  • RAFA C: 1.222 / 0.815 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.962 / 0.951
  • RAFA M: 1.000 / 0.667 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2): Score: 0.787 / 0.778
  • RAFA M: 1.177 / 0.785 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2): Score: 0.927 / 0.916
  • Su-35: 1.104 / 0.648 (AL-37FU, nowadays, 31,970 Ib / 18,740 Ib *2): Score: 0.869 / 0.756
  • Su-35: 1.244 / 0.829 (AL-41F1, post-2015?, 36,000 Ib / 24,000 Ib *2): Score: 0.980 / 0.967
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Viperalltheway
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by Viperalltheway » 06 Jun 2005, 14:13

Your numbers are great toan.. However I wonder whether all of these performances comparison are relevant in the era of BVR.
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