F-16 Instructor Pilots, Vermont MTC

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tyrantf16

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Unread post10 Aug 2012, 13:02

Current or recently separated/retired IPs needed for SME positions in Burlington. Up to 3 positions available as early as Oct 12. Excellent pay and potential to fly part time with VTANG (separate app process). Send intro email to Kevin.Tarrant.ctr@ang.af.mil.
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ygbsm

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Unread post11 Aug 2012, 02:27

The title of the thread brings up an interesting point. Is the VTANG sim really an MTC? MTC (Mission Training Center) was a term used for the original F-16 sims fielded by Lockheed. These are currently being upgraded by L3.

Since copyright laws don't apply in the Air Force, it is interesting that the VTANG tried to label themselves as an "MTC". In reality, it doesn't compare. The VTANG is "thrown together" by some very capable engineers, but pales in comparison to MTCs in place. This is based on cockpit fidelity, visual, and threat generation. Does the VTANG sim even have a DMO capability? ARC?

I'm not sure it is worthy of a discussion. I just don't get the VTANG using the term "MTC" for their sims. In fairness, potential instructors should probably think of it more as a UTD than a MTC.
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viper69

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Unread post11 Aug 2012, 17:21

The Vermont "MTC" is 4 cockpits that are DMO capable with 360 visual that is higher fidelity than any "MTC" I've seen. The debrief capabilities also blow away the "MTCs" I've been to. Not to mention they employ current/qualified SME's rather than having guys who flew some other fighter 20 years ago on the console. The Vermont Mission Training Center is quite impressive. I think calling it an MTC is dead on, since it is a "center" where all ANG F-16 units send 8-10 pilots TDY for one week per quarter to "train" for "missions".

Why do people who don't know what they're talking about have to turn every topic into an argument?
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ygbsm

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Unread post12 Aug 2012, 13:05

I would "argue" the following points with you:

- The visual can't be better...not technologically feasible
- Debrief better? How?
- I would take Instructor's over SME's and MTC Instructor credentials are highly defined...F-16 "Instructor" experience required
- VTANG's cockpit fidelity?
- MTC's have a much much better threat generator
- DMO with who?

The VTANG sim is a typical Guard product. Make the best of what you have available. I'm just questioning why it was called an MTC when the USAF's MTCs are such superior sims.
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deadseal

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Unread post12 Aug 2012, 16:01

I don't think it's an MTC. in fact im quite sure they call it a DMO in other guard units. I have heard good things about it though. maybe its an NTC?
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viper69

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Unread post12 Aug 2012, 16:50

Guys, I'm not trying to split hairs with you. I'm just saying that the Vermont sims (if that's what you want to call them) are, in my opinion, as good if not better than the MTC's at Shaw. I can say this as I'm a current F-16 pilot and I've been to both on more than one occasion. I don't know the technical specs on the visual, but they're both about the same. As far as the debrief, they have 5 wide screen TV's in each briefing room for debrief. Each cockpit has it's own (maybe 50") screen with HUD, MFD's and RWR with the God's eye view on the fifth screen. This blows away the 1970's era 15" tube TV's that Shaw has. It's also better because it doesn't crash once or twice during the debrief like the one's at Shaw did when I was there. When I was at Vermont they had three current/qualified Viper instructors on the counsel who also fly with the local guard unit, two of which are viper patch wearers, and one guy who recently retired as an IP. Their "SME's" are all F-16 IP's (read the job advertisement post that started this thread). As far as the threat generator, again I don't know the details, but it was very similar to what I saw at Shaw. DMO - you name it, JTAC's for CAS sorties, Tac C2, etc...

In any case, to say that potential instructors should think of it more like a UTD than an MTC is flat out wrong... The guard "threw this together" for pennies on the dollar and it's an incredible training resource for the entire ANG viper community. It's just too bad it's not more centrally located.
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ygbsm

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Unread post12 Aug 2012, 22:02

Naw. It's not an MTC. That's why I asked: Why did they call it an MTC? Closer to a UTD...just to be fair to the IPs...err SMEs.
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viper69

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Unread post12 Aug 2012, 23:52

Whatever dude. Good talk...

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