F-16XL

Always wondered why the F-16 has a tailhook, or how big a bigmouth F-16's mouth really is ? Find it out here !
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geogen

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Unread post21 Dec 2010, 04:46

Thanks for reply and fascinating 'structure oriented' inputs as always, johnwill. And no, you're not getting senile in re-posting your thoughts on these repeating subject matters, you're just a nice, polite guy :) Just keep telling your wife that too, she'll eventually hear you..

Re: the airbrakes being affected by the rear AMRAAM placement, I'm curious if the Gripen style Airbrake concept could have applied for a production XL design instead (i.e., 2x brakes at upward 45 degree, one on each side, towards the rear of the engine fuselage just before the nozzle)?

Best regards,
The Super-Viper has not yet begun to concede.
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johnwill

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Unread post21 Dec 2010, 07:47

I suspect a better way would be to use ailerons and elevons simultaneously, as in F-22, F-35, possibly others I don't know about.

My wife and I (married 48 years) have a great time growing older together and are constantly kidding each other about how old, senile, forgetful, etc. the other is. I wish for everyone to be so blessed with a mate as I am.
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FlightDreamz

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Unread post21 Dec 2010, 12:10

johnwill
I can only give you an opinion, that of a mid-level engineer, not a manager type. It seemed to many people that the AF was dead set on the F-15E winning the competition, mainly to preserve the production line. The F-16 line was assured for many more years, but F-15 was nearing it's end. That was understood and accepted. We knew we had to be a lot better to win.

If you don't mind me throwing in my :2c: I also remember that at the time General Dynamics (who was still building the F-16 before they sold off the design and production line) got caught "with it's hand in the cookie jar" overbilling Uncle Sam for something or other and there was a big controversy over that. Might have skewered some viewpoints. I'm sure that's been covered on f-16.net and elsewere but I don't have links at present (too early in the morning - the caffeine from my coffee has only just started to hit the system)! :shrug:
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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johnwill

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Unread post21 Dec 2010, 17:25

Right you are. With so many thousands of employees at ALL defense contractors, there will always be some individual or small group of individuals willing to bend the rules. Name a contractor who has not been there. However, very rarely is the infraction a result of contractor policy, as no contractor is foolish enough to do that. Recall also, that for every $300 hammer charged to the government, some civil servant approved the payment.

That of course does not excuse the overcharge, but goes to show that mis-deeds abound everywhere. Remember what Pogo said, "we have met the enemy and he is us".
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FlightDreamz

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Unread post23 Dec 2010, 04:59

Point taken, it's true that pretty much every defense contractor has been charged with overbilling something, somewhere. I like you point about the civil servants approving it as well. Will try to dig up some concrete data on why the U.S. govt was upset with General Dynamics this weekend after the holiday rush and keeping the F-15 line open was almost certainly a factor as stated earlier in the post.
FlightDreamz
If I remember correctly, General Dynamics got caught in a big scandal overbilling the U.S. Government over some contract and that played a hand in the F-16XL losing to the F-15E.

Whoops! Looks like I'm repeating myself! I've already mentioned it way back in 2008, on the first page of this thread :doh: I must be getting senile!
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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johnwill

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Unread post23 Dec 2010, 15:49

Welcome to the club. :cheers:
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fiskerwad

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Unread post23 Dec 2010, 16:53

johnwill wrote: Recall also, that for every $300 hammer charged to the government, some civil servant approved the payment.



I remember the hammers as costing $750 but that probably included the civil servant's cut.

Some of the time, tools that were "local procurement" were ordered from GD instead so the customer wasn't liable for damage caused by using the wrong tool. Since GD was required to re-QA and then store and inventory those tools, $15 hammers quickly become $300 hammers.

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