The F-35 still needs to prove it self in combat?

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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jessmo112

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Unread post25 Sep 2020, 01:09

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... -in-combat

Please explain this to me?
The F-35 has participated in multiple strikes against Syrian, and Iranian targets defended by the best Russian gear. The Russians have had issues detecting let alone track the F-35. The Syrians already have S300.
Why are news outlets still writing about the F-35 as if its 2010? Bloomberg is smarter than this...
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quicksilver

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Unread post25 Sep 2020, 01:40

In simple terms, the OT’ers couldn’t create — in an open-air location, anywhere in the western world, within an assumed time period and resources — a full scale threat array of a density sufficient to stress the jet’s capabilities for the purpose of a capstone operational evaluation. Thus, they chose to do so in a high fidelity simulation environment — the JSE.

The JSE isn’t ready yet, and thus the evaluation will slide into the next calendar year.

Kind of a snoozer of a story and known by most anyway since government acquisition leadership suggested this some time ago (iirc).
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Sep 2020, 12:31

Certain parties will do anything to dump on it. Until the F-35 shoots down Migs en-route to a target, bombs it and then successfully returns home - don't expect anything to change.

Even then, they'll pick apart pieces of it... "It shot down Mig-29's, everybody shoots down Mig-29's. If that was the SU-35/57, things would have been different", etc.

Now that the program is hitting on all cylinders and its apparent it CAN climb, turn, run etc... they're looking for new material. I say when Israel/Japan are thinking of buying more than planned well, that tells you everything you need to know..
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squirrelshoes

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Unread post26 Sep 2020, 19:22

The Minuteman missile still needs to prove itself in combat...
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FlightDreamz

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Unread post27 Sep 2020, 06:54

We DID sell F-35i Lightning II's to Israel (forget what Israel calls' their F-35s - Baal maybe?) it's only a matter of time before the F-35 gets it's "baptism of fire". And has already been pointed out, it's done strike missions already. Haters gotta hate :shrug:
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.
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marauder2048

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Unread post28 Sep 2020, 18:24

jessmo112 wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-09-24/f-35s-lure-buyers-as-a-question-looms-how-will-it-do-in-combat

Please explain this to me?
The F-35 has participated in multiple strikes against Syrian, and Iranian targets defended by the best Russian gear. The Russians have had issues detecting let alone track the F-35. The Syrians already have S300.
Why are news outlets still writing about the F-35 as if its 2010? Bloomberg is smarter than this...


Two words: contract closeout.

At the end, this testing will determine what the USG pays Lockheed & Co. My guess is that the F-35
is so far ahead on its survivability metrics that it would crush the objective requirements across
the board on anything lower fidelity than JSE.

As far as DOT&E is concerned, since the Israeli operations were not conducted under repeatable, controlled
conditions they don't count. Ignoring the fact that against a competent enemy, conditions aren't likely to be repeatab...
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nutshell

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Unread post29 Sep 2020, 00:05

FlightDreamz wrote:We DID sell F-35i Lightning II's to Israel (forget what Israel calls' their F-35s - Baal maybe?) it's only a matter of time before the F-35 gets it's "baptism of fire". And has already been pointed out, it's done strike missions already. Haters gotta hate :shrug:

They are called Adir.

I dont think Judaism include Baal the likes.
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jessmo112

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Unread post29 Sep 2020, 00:08

The sad part about this whole thing is the insane waste of state funds to prove something to detractors.
The people in the know dont need to know if the F-35 works. They have to prove it to the liberal detractors that work for Aviation week and Bloomberg.
They have to prove it to the congressmen who dont have an F-35 in their district. I also blame lockheed because of hubris the ran the program sloppy in the early years.
Now we have to prove to congress that the plane works.
If the plane doesn't work over Syria it would never work.
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marauder2048

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Unread post29 Sep 2020, 00:32

jessmo112 wrote:The sad part about this whole thing is the insane waste of state funds to prove something to detractors.
The people in the know dont need to know if the F-35 works. They have to prove it to the liberal detractors that work for Aviation week and Bloomberg.
They have to prove it to the congressmen who dont have an F-35 in their district. I also blame lockheed because of hubris the ran the program sloppy in the early years.
Now we have to prove to congress that the plane works.
If the plane doesn't work over Syria it would never work.


Err..what? LRIP JSTARS got used extensively in GW1 and over Bosnia; that didn't prevent DOT&E from subjecting
it to a massive OT program a lot of which just duplicated GW1 and Yugoslav conditions.

DOT&E is hostile to certain programs and it shows in the dark; they can make testing essentially a finite
but unbounded obstacle since every single new test can be justified on the
basis that it "improves confidence in the system."

Now something like JSE is perfectly legitimate and useful because there are certain things you

a. don't want to expose on open air ranges
b. can't safely do in the real world short of a shooting war
c. can't do because the threat surrogates aren't
d. can't afford to do: this program is the bill payer for a lot of test asset neglect
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quicksilver

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Unread post29 Sep 2020, 14:34

“My guess is that the F-35 is so far ahead on its survivability metrics that it would crush the objective requirements across
the board on anything lower fidelity than JSE.“

M2048 is being gentle about it; F-35 is crushing everything. They needed to be able to turn the threat level up to something that might cause it to fail, cuz there’s nothing right now that can, save ‘intergalactic invaders.’

I jest, but only slightly. The other piece of this is that the boys and girls flying the machine are the best in the world at this stuff, which is a statement about selection and training as much as it is about the jet.
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outlaw162

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Unread post30 Sep 2020, 03:53

As far as survivability metrics and proving anything, from the news today, it seems like air-refueling is a bigger threat than the actual threats.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/military-jet ... -refueling

I like the part about the F-35's pilot....and co-pilot.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post30 Sep 2020, 04:38

Also posted here in a separate appropriate thread: viewtopic.php?f=61&p=445094#p445094

F-35B Crashes, Reportedly After Mid-Air w Tanker
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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mixelflick

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Unread post30 Sep 2020, 13:07

outlaw162 wrote:As far as survivability metrics and proving anything, from the news today, it seems like air-refueling is a bigger threat than the actual threats.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/military-jet ... -refueling

I like the part about the F-35's pilot....and co-pilot.


Pretty clear USMC is flying a super-secret, two man F-35 with special capabilities.

Glad both pilots are OK :mrgreen:

Srsly though, glad everyone got out of this one. I listened to the air traffic control tapes and the KC-130 pilot sounded pretty cool under pressure, and clearly did a great job bringing it down in that field. The F-35.... guessing the pilot aimed it as far out in the desert as possible, but no word yet on if that was really the case. At least everybody made it out, and will be going home to their wives/spouses..

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