What is the credibility of this piece of news?

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f-15c85-0114

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 04:01

What is the credibility of this piece of news? What do you think of it?
https://twitter.com/garethjennings3/sta ... 18086?s=21
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weasel1962

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 04:18

If all 4 German serviceable typhoons were at the exercise, then who's guarding the border?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 04:41

f-15c85-0114 wrote:What is the credibility of this piece of news? What do you think of it?
https://twitter.com/garethjennings3/sta ... 18086?s=21



Author doesn't provide the source nor the specific details. Honestly, many such exercises have ROE that favor the opponent.


In addition they make it sound like the Typhoon dispatched four F-35A's with ease. Including a former Top Gun Pilot. Sounds extremely far-fetched to me.....

If, this was the case the NEWS would be in bright lights all over the internet! Funny, that we haven't heard a peep about it....
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element1loop

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 06:55

weasel1962 wrote:If all 4 German serviceable typhoons were at the exercise, then who's guarding the border?


Ouch! ... er ... what's a border?
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 07:50

f-15c85-0114 wrote:What is the credibility of this piece of news? What do you think of it?
https://twitter.com/garethjennings3/sta ... 18086?s=21




I spoke to the author on Twitter. Yet, for some reason he hasn't been able to provide me with a source??? :?
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quicksilver

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 09:37

T-R-O-L-L
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krieger22

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 11:28

It's just pilot chest thumping. You know, the standard for fighter pilots?

Asking if we will see FCAS New Generation Fighter before CAPTOR-E becomes standard fit for whatever Eurofighters remain flying then seems like a fun way to get ejected from the press day.
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doge

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 11:49

Eurofighter has a previous sin records...! :doh: Are they still doing that!? :devil:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... troll-farm
Undercover reporter reveals life in a Polish troll farm
Katarzyna Pruszkiewicz spent six months running fake social media accounts at self-described ‘ePR firm’ in Wrocław
2019/nov/01
It is as common an occurrence on Polish Twitter as you are likely to get: a pair of conservative activists pouring scorn on the country’s divided liberal opposition.

“I burst out laughing!” writes Girl from Żoliborz, a self-described “traditionalist” commenting on a newspaper story about a former campaign adviser to Barack Obama and Emmanuel Macron coming to Warsaw to address a group of liberal activists.

“The opposition has nothing to offer. That’s why they use nonsense to pull the wool over people’s eyes,” replies Magda Rostocka, whose profile tells her almost 4,400 followers she is “left-handed with her heart on the right”.

In reality, neither woman existed. Both accounts were run by the paid employees of a small marketing company based in the city of Wrocław in southwest Poland.

EU disputes Facebook's claims of progress against fake accounts
Read more
But what the employee pretending to be Magda Rostocka did not know is that the colleague pretending to be Girl from Żoliborz was an undercover reporter who had infiltrated the company, giving rare insight into the means by which fake social media accounts are being used by private firms to influence unsuspecting voters and consumers.

Social media companies are coming under increasing pressure over fake accounts. Facebook has said it disabled 2.2bn fake accounts in the first three months of 2019, but the European Commission this week said there was a “disconnect” between such claims.

The undercover reporter, Katarzyna Pruszkiewicz, spent six months this year working at Cat@Net, which describes itself as an “ePR agency comprising specialists who build a positive image of companies, private individuals and public institutions – mostly in social media.”.

A member of the Reporters’ Foundation, a consortium of Polish investigative journalists, Pruszkiewicz’s first task when she joined the company was to set up a social media avatar for sharing “social and political content” with the aim of attracting 500 followers.

After a trial period, she was given access to the company’s internal communications channels, through which the company’s employees, each of whom ran a dozen or so social media accounts, would receive guidance and instructions from their managers – what issues to engage with, who to promote, and who to denigrate.

The accounts produced both leftwing and rightwing content, attracting attention, credibility and support from other social media users, who could then be rallied in support of the company’s clients.

“The aim is to build credibility with people from both sides of the political divide. Once you have won someone’s trust by reflecting their own views back at them, you are in a position to influence them,” said Wojciech Cieśla, who oversaw the investigation in collaboration with Investigate Europe, a consortium of European investigative reporters.

“Reading these communications, you can see how the leftwing and rightwing accounts would receive their daily instructions, how they would be marshalled and directed like two flanks of the same army on a battlefield.”

A majority of Cat@Net’s employees are understood to be disabled, allowing the company to derive substantial public subsidies from Poland’s National Disabled Rehabilitation Fund. According to the Reporters Foundation, the company has received about 1.5 million zloty (£300,000) from the fund since November 2015.

“Many of them are really good people – they are compassionate, they do charity work and engage in social activism in their spare time, but their disabilities mean that their employment opportunities are limited,” Pruszkiewicz told the Guardian. “For them it was just work and that’s it.”

One of Pruszkiewicz’s responsibilities was to operate anonymous accounts with instructions to promote content produced by TVP, Poland’s state broadcaster, which is widely reviled by critics for its extreme partisanship and hate speech directed against minority groups.

‘It would be great if you posted positive comments about the government’s subsidy for TVP and the television licence fee,’ read an email from her manager.

An internal report seen by the Guardian details how the fake accounts were used to denigrate legitimate criticism of the broadcaster. According to an analysis by ISD Global, a London-based thinktank that studies global trends in extremism and polarisation, Cat@Net accounts created up to 10,000 posts in defence of TVP, with a potential reach of 15 million views.

Another beneficiary of Cat@Net’s influence operations was a recently elected member of the Polish parliament for the leftwing Democratic Left Alliance party. Cat@Net’s leftwing accounts promoted the politician’s candidacy to the European Parliament in elections held in May this year, with at least 90 different accounts circulating and responding to his social media posts. The company’s rightwing accounts would then oppose the leftwing accounts, generating conflict and traffic, thereby drawing attention to the candidate.

“If [he] is followed only by our accounts, this is really suspicious,” wrote one employee during an internal discussion of the campaign.

Accounts were created that would concentrate on the aviation and defence industries, and target key decision-makers involved in the awarding of major government defence contracts.

The accounts were used to undermine public support for the Polish government’s decision to place a major order with the American contractor Lockheed Martin for the F-35 fighter jet, promoting instead the Eurofighter Typhoon produced by a consortium that includes Airbus, BAE Systems, and Leonardo – which has a Polish subsidiary, PZL Świdnik. Cat@Net employees were reminded by their managers that “the F-35 is our enemy number one” but “don’t be too pushy with the Eurofighter, otherwise they will know they are being trolled”.
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wrightwing

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 21:13

Assuming that this event actually occurred, what configuration were the Typhoons flying in? I know in previous exercises vs F-22s, they stripped off everything (no pylons, no EFTs, no pods, no missile simulators.) Additionally, what configuration were the F-35s (Luneberg lenses, etc...?), and what were the ROEs? I'd be far more interested in the results of an exercise where each aircraft took off in a combat configuration (i.e. Typhoons with 2 EFTs and 6 to 8 external dummy missiles vs an F-35 with full internal missile load.) Fly multiple engagements with separation starting at 100nm, 50nm, 25nm, 10nm. Allow each aircraft to use its best tricks. Of course the outcome would never be publicised, but that's far more telling, in terms of effectiveness.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 21:35

f-15c85-0114 wrote:What is the credibility of this piece of news? What do you think of it?
https://twitter.com/garethjennings3/sta ... 18086?s=21



hearsay? what do you think?
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irrelevant

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 22:27

Did a bit of digging on this, here is what I found.
This is all coming from Luftwaffe’s Lt Col Swen Jacob, Eurofighter JG74 CO at Airbus's Trade Media Briefing in Munich. The only place I can find any of his quotes is on twitter :roll: from a few different places.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1191734093345632257
“F-35s came here recently from Swindon, said let’s dogfight/visual. They did their 60 knots & AoA, and we still gunned them,” says Luftwaffe’s Lt Col Swen Jacob, @Eurofighter JG74 CO @ Neuberg, Germany. Admits the gig “wouldn’t be fun” in BVR. #AirbusTMB"
On the F-35-Typhoon dogfight at Neuberg, was a four-on-four engagement in 90 second neutral & offensive manoeuvres, says Lt Col Jacob, callsign X-Ray. “Involved a lot of painful G, and we didn’t gun them every time, but we were on top. They wanted to validate stuff.”

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1191737115974995968
Luftwaffe Eurofighters won/came out neutral in all 4 within visual range fights against USAF F-35As says CO of JG74. Mock battle pitted 4 EF pilots v 4 F-35 pilots with pilots of varying experience. Col Jacob says his MiG-29 background helped give him the edge.

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1191728664477601792
JG74 CO says would like aerodynamic strake kit to improve AoA limits on Eurofighter. But says that he recently fought 60deg capable AoA F-35s in visual dogfight "they did funky manoeuvres - but I still gunned them" (!)

Considering that the F-35 is the main competitor in many current and future contracts against Airbus, and this story comes out during an event hosted by Airbus, thats meant to hype up as much Airbus product as possible seems a little convenient.
This whole thing reminds me of the whole French Rafale Raptor salad bs.
Take it as you will.
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f-16adf

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Unread post06 Nov 2019, 23:02

I think JG74 trains 100% for the air to air mission (I could be wrong though). The F-35's were probably from Hill AFB (just guessing here). They, as they did with their F-16's before, probably train 2/3 for the air to ground mission, and the other 1/3 for air to air.
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weasel1962

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Unread post07 Nov 2019, 01:23

If hill, did they do it as part of rapid forge? Thought that was more for the Polish and Baltics.

Doesn't sound like this was recent, if it happened.
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Unread post07 Nov 2019, 01:50

irrelevant wrote:Did a bit of digging on this, here is what I found.
This is all coming from Luftwaffe’s Lt Col Swen Jacob, Eurofighter JG74 CO at Airbus's Trade Media Briefing in Munich. The only place I can find any of his quotes is on twitter :roll: from a few different places.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1191734093345632257
“F-35s came here recently from Swindon, said let’s dogfight/visual. They did their 60 knots & AoA, and we still gunned them,” says Luftwaffe’s Lt Col Swen Jacob, @Eurofighter JG74 CO @ Neuberg, Germany. Admits the gig “wouldn’t be fun” in BVR. #AirbusTMB"
On the F-35-Typhoon dogfight at Neuberg, was a four-on-four engagement in 90 second neutral & offensive manoeuvres, says Lt Col Jacob, callsign X-Ray. “Involved a lot of painful G, and we didn’t gun them every time, but we were on top. They wanted to validate stuff.”

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1191737115974995968
Luftwaffe Eurofighters won/came out neutral in all 4 within visual range fights against USAF F-35As says CO of JG74. Mock battle pitted 4 EF pilots v 4 F-35 pilots with pilots of varying experience. Col Jacob says his MiG-29 background helped give him the edge.

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1191728664477601792
JG74 CO says would like aerodynamic strake kit to improve AoA limits on Eurofighter. But says that he recently fought 60deg capable AoA F-35s in visual dogfight "they did funky manoeuvres - but I still gunned them" (!)

Considering that the F-35 is the main competitor in many current and future contracts against Airbus, and this story comes out during an event hosted by Airbus, thats meant to hype up as much Airbus product as possible seems a little convenient.
This whole thing reminds me of the whole French Rafale Raptor salad bs.
Take it as you will.


Very little in the way of details....Plus, nothing from the opposing F-35's! :?
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glennwhitten

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Unread post07 Nov 2019, 02:06

Were the EF guns only- ie no missiles? If so a clean EF has an advantage. They would not be running actual missions without being equipped with AA missiles! The F-35 has to carry its bomb bay even if there are no missiles in it!
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