Russian Air Defense Systems unable to detect F-35!

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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garrya

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 08:41

southerncross wrote:Coalition has bombed as close to the S-400 as Idlib very recently, should Russians have downed them or did they also not see the F-15Es tasked with the mission?
Again, Russia has nothing to win by interfering in such events:
- Syria and Israel have a long history of conflicts and there Russia has nothing to win by taking sides with Syria. They are friends with Israel and have all reasons for wanting things to continue like that.
- Russian forces in Syria are very limited and completely vulnerable to committed attacks from either CENTCOM or IAF.
- Stretching the scope of their involvement or being dragged into conflict by provocations are just self-defeating approaches that Russia is avoiding at all costs.
- The level of military effects of IAF raids is negligible

Do you have a map of Idlib attack and S-400 location? I can't find anything about the type of aircraft and weapons they used in Idlib attack https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=vn

If Russian doesn't want to side with Syria why do they bring many air defense system there and share information with Syria?
IMHO, the military effect of IAF raids isn't negligible when they start to destroy Syrian early warning radar.

southerncross wrote:Either if they were F-15s or F-35s it is perfectly possible that:
- They were not detected or classified as targets due to terrain masking / US IFF codes / EW
- They could have climbed fast to release altitude and make a fast turn back (we would really need to check very accurately the engagement) before the AD could have engaged them. Planes move fast as we know from our discussions.
- Russia may or may not have received a previous warning about the attack, sometimes IAF does it, sometimes they don't. They could have been misled, too.
- Syrian AD may have not been configured against such attack vector, given they vast majority of attacks from Israel are executed near Damascus and that their systems are very scarce. If you want to proof the F-35s can operate with impunity you don't take such a complex flight path but would attack from Lebanon or the Mediterranean, right above Hmeimim if possible

IMHO, because the weapon of choice is glider bombs, terrain masking isn't plausible because it will require F-35 to fly at very low altitude and more vulnerable to anti-air cannon which are more numerous in quantity. Moreover, I don't think F-35 or even Su-57 can climb from sea level altitude to 50k ft then come down before ADS can engage them if they are within the detection radius. Furthermore, if you need to know before hand the vector where your adversary will attack from to defend, then it isn't a good air defense system.
The route Israel took is rather simple IMHO, furthermore, stealth aircraft aren't supposed to be immune to radar, they only reduce radar detection range.
5476d07c847783b91d37ec706b1b5635.jpg

southerncross wrote:Yes, it was supposed that Russia was feeding targets to the Syrian AD before but then it was proven not to be the case.

How did they prove that it wasn't the case?
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ricnunes

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 10:43

n3sk wrote:
F78F9338-5BE8-404C-A801-EBECBC678164.jpeg

I was able to obtain this new intel on why the missile defenses did not work. The operator was distracted.

But seriously, was their any sort of Air Defense near?


Your drawing is incorrect:
- The woman should be with a Burqa! :devil:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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mixelflick

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 12:40

That diagram nicely explains 4th vs. 5th gen capabilities.

It really came from the Canadian fighter acquisition process? :)
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spazsinbad

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 13:28

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51578291/Pres ... blue-FINAL : "Deletion notice
The document Presentation Deck 15 Mar 11_blue_FINAL has been deleted." What a shame - two pages attached below....

FINALLY the real deal - 31 maple syrup flavoured PDF pages: Joint Strike Fighter Program Technical Briefing 17 Mar 2010
Attachments
Canuck F-35 attack 51578291-Presentation-Deck-15-Mar-11-blue-FINAL pp2.pdf
(211.95 KiB) Downloaded 73 times
Canuck F-35 attack 51578291-Presentation-Deck-15-Mar-11-blue-FINAL cropPRNpp2.pdf
(278.36 KiB) Downloaded 57 times
Canuck F-35 attack 51578291-Presentation-Deck-15-Mar-11-blue-FINAL cropPRN.pdf
(302.42 KiB) Downloaded 61 times
51578291-Presentation-Deck-15-Mar-11-blue-FINAL.pdf
(977.22 KiB) Downloaded 62 times
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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loke

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Unread post25 Sep 2019, 16:11

element1loop wrote:Yesterday it was reported that leaders of the Houthies told Saudi Arabia's govt that they were asked by Iran (in advance) to claim responsibility for an upcoming attack (and others), which they did. But said they didn't realize what the scale and nature of the attack would mean for them. So even the Houthies recanted and said Iran was responsible for this attack.

I was not able to find other sources confirming this.

I did find sources saying that Houthis are asking for a cease fire, and also warning against future attacks from Iran. But not an independent confirmation that the Houthis are saying Iran was behind the large-scale attack that happened already.

Saudi Arabia offered a cautious response on Saturday to an unexpected offer from Yemen's Houthi rebels to halt all of their attacks on the kingdom as part of an initiative to end their country's devastating war.

The Houthi announcement on Friday came on the eve of the fifth anniversary of the start of the conflict and a week after a wave of drone strikes on Saudi oil installations a week ago knocked out half of the kingdom's production.

The Iran-backed Houthis claimed responsibility for the attacks, but Riyadh's ally Washington has placed the blame on Tehran and announced new sanctions against the Islamic republic, AFP said.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saud ... lt-attacks

Nevertheless, most likely it was Iran; it seems both Germany and France are supporting this hypothesis (unlike the UK they normally don't support other more dubious hypotheses in the ME like WMD in Iraq, etc...)
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awsome

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Unread post28 Sep 2019, 20:01

Looks like the Houthis don't need peace.... https://www.debka.com/yemeni-houthis-cl ... jran-raid/ :shock:
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awsome

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Unread post30 Sep 2019, 01:38

RT has picked this story up as well with video footage... https://www.rt.com/news/469890-saudis-c ... ive-video/
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Unread post30 Sep 2019, 01:57

element1loop wrote:
southerncross wrote: ... Look, for you to understand how the world outside your bubble ticks:
1.the events in KSA are a phenomenal embarrassment, nothing short of a turning point in regards of how US (and allies) military power is seen around the world. It does not really matter whether the attack came from Iran or Yemen. ... The unthinkable event of low tech attacks knocking down assets critical to the world's economy that were protected by the best Western HW money can buy has become a reality and that will have implications. It does not really matter whether the attack came from Iran or Yemen. ...


This is beyond ridiculous. It sure matters to everyone else mate.

Yesterday it was reported that leaders of the Houthies told Saudi Arabia's govt that they were asked by Iran (in advance) to claim responsibility for an upcoming attack (and others), which they did. But said they didn't realize what the scale and nature of the attack would mean for them. So even the Houthies recanted and said Iran was responsible for this attack.

Which means the Quds1 missile revealed in Yemen back in mid June, is not a missile unique to Yemen and manufactured there, if it's coming from Iraqi territory as well in significant numbers (seven Quds1 were used in the attack, two crashed and wreckage recovered). So who's really producing these "Quds1"? Perhaps the answer is in the missile's chosen name? The IRGC Quds Force brigades (estimated to be ~2,000) routinely work with Iranian proxies. It's what they primarily do.

They have apparently, in recent months, fielded this Iranian cruise missile, and now operate it (little-green-men style) from within Iranian proxie groups throughout the ME region. They are either controlling it, and/or also proliferating the missile within the proxies, as Iran has chosen a path of systematic attack which they intend to blame on these groups, remaining one-step removed from Tehran - as they just did with the Houthies.

And apparently the Houthies realized they were about to be smashed and invaded by SA if they didn't clear this up, pronto. So they did.

And when you look at the construction of these Quds1 weapons it's mostly a composite airframe, not much metal. It has advanced navigation, advanced terrain-following capabilities, good manoeuvrability, it has highly effective precision-targeting. These are not simple, cheap or low-grade weapons. They are very capable and some effort was taken into reducing their weight and some basic reduction of RCS as well. The tactics and result were good enough for the attackers to sustain at least a 20 minute attack on two sites.

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive ... he-quds-1/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Absk3U3jaA

This was a blatant case of Iran's military attacking Saudi Arabia. They use their own military Quds force and the Quds1 weapon with true 'false-flag' methods, from locations of proxie forces to attempt to blame-shift it to the Houthie. Who then turned around and said, no, Iran did this actually.

It absolutely matters where the attack came from, and who did it.

Even the Houthies think it matters very much.

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/g ... port-.html

https://en.radiofarda.com/a/khamenei-s- ... 77955.html



I agree. Israel has been successful against Iran in Syria because Israel knows no one wants Iran there and Iran is known to use Syrians and Lebanese as cannon fodder proxies for its war on Israel. Israel made Iranian presence and exploitation clear, dividing the forces in Syria.

Iran tried to counter that by having Sauds bust the yemeni Houties instead of the specific Iranian agents there. Not falling in this trap is key in pointing the fingers at Iran and cooling the Houtie belief in Iranian propaganda that Iran is there to free them from oppression. It is quite further from the truth.
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Unread post30 Sep 2019, 03:48

So......Anyone got an idea when the F-35 will receive GaN jammers to receive VHF and UHF frequencies? I don't feel comfortable knowing that Damascus is 60kms away from Israel's border with S-300s placed over there while other waves get readings on the aircraft forget about the passive sensors monitoring emissions.
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milosh

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Unread post30 Sep 2019, 17:52

n3sk wrote:But seriously, was their any sort of Air Defense near?


Of course. They have couple of SAM systems Patriot, and two SHORADs AAA one and rocket one:
https://www.airforce-technology.com/pro ... -airforce/
https://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/ ... ahine.html

Did they down anything with SHORADs? I mean drones aren't fast and not stealthy so SHORADs would do job, so I think they sleep during attack.

As you see Arabs can be armed with best of best and still not use them as expected. So no wonder when Syrians leave Pantsyr exposed while rearming it.
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