Russian Air Defense Systems unable to detect F-35!

[mixelflick]

That diagram nicely explains 4th vs. 5th gen capabilities.

It really came from the Canadian fighter acquisition process?

[spazsinbad]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51578291/Pres ... blue-FINAL : "Deletion notice
The document Presentation Deck 15 Mar 11_blue_FINAL has been deleted." What a shame - two pages attached below....

FINALLY the real deal - 31 maple syrup flavoured PDF pages: Joint Strike Fighter Program Technical Briefing 17 Mar 2010

[loke]

Yesterday it was reported that leaders of the Houthies told Saudi Arabia's govt that they were asked by Iran (in advance) to claim responsibility for an upcoming attack (and others), which they did. But said they didn't realize what the scale and nature of the attack would mean for them. So even the Houthies recanted and said Iran was responsible for this attack.

I was not able to find other sources confirming this.

I did find sources saying that Houthis are asking for a cease fire, and also warning against future attacks from Iran. But not an independent confirmation that the Houthis are saying Iran was behind the large-scale attack that happened already.

Saudi Arabia offered a cautious response on Saturday to an unexpected offer from Yemen's Houthi rebels to halt all of their attacks on the kingdom as part of an initiative to end their country's devastating war.

The Houthi announcement on Friday came on the eve of the fifth anniversary of the start of the conflict and a week after a wave of drone strikes on Saudi oil installations a week ago knocked out half of the kingdom's production.

The Iran-backed Houthis claimed responsibility for the attacks, but Riyadh's ally Washington has placed the blame on Tehran and announced new sanctions against the Islamic republic, AFP said.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saud ... lt-attacks

Nevertheless, most likely it was Iran; it seems both Germany and France are supporting this hypothesis (unlike the UK they normally don't support other more dubious hypotheses in the ME like WMD in Iraq, etc...)

[awsome]

Looks like the Houthis don't need peace.... https://www.debka.com/yemeni-houthis-cl ... jran-raid/

[boilermaker]

... Look, for you to understand how the world outside your bubble ticks:
1.the events in KSA are a phenomenal embarrassment, nothing short of a turning point in regards of how US (and allies) military power is seen around the world. It does not really matter whether the attack came from Iran or Yemen. ... The unthinkable event of low tech attacks knocking down assets critical to the world's economy that were protected by the best Western HW money can buy has become a reality and that will have implications. It does not really matter whether the attack came from Iran or Yemen. ...

This is beyond ridiculous. It sure matters to everyone else mate.

Yesterday it was reported that leaders of the Houthies told Saudi Arabia's govt that they were asked by Iran (in advance) to claim responsibility for an upcoming attack (and others), which they did. But said they didn't realize what the scale and nature of the attack would mean for them. So even the Houthies recanted and said Iran was responsible for this attack.

Which means the Quds1 missile revealed in Yemen back in mid June, is not a missile unique to Yemen and manufactured there, if it's coming from Iraqi territory as well in significant numbers (seven Quds1 were used in the attack, two crashed and wreckage recovered). So who's really producing these "Quds1"? Perhaps the answer is in the missile's chosen name? The IRGC Quds Force brigades (estimated to be ~2,000) routinely work with Iranian proxies. It's what they primarily do.

They have apparently, in recent months, fielded this Iranian cruise missile, and now operate it (little-green-men style) from within Iranian proxie groups throughout the ME region. They are either controlling it, and/or also proliferating the missile within the proxies, as Iran has chosen a path of systematic attack which they intend to blame on these groups, remaining one-step removed from Tehran - as they just did with the Houthies.

And apparently the Houthies realized they were about to be smashed and invaded by SA if they didn't clear this up, pronto. So they did.

And when you look at the construction of these Quds1 weapons it's mostly a composite airframe, not much metal. It has advanced navigation, advanced terrain-following capabilities, good manoeuvrability, it has highly effective precision-targeting. These are not simple, cheap or low-grade weapons. They are very capable and some effort was taken into reducing their weight and some basic reduction of RCS as well. The tactics and result were good enough for the attackers to sustain at least a 20 minute attack on two sites.

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive ... he-quds-1/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Absk3U3jaA

This was a blatant case of Iran's military attacking Saudi Arabia. They use their own military Quds force and the Quds1 weapon with true 'false-flag' methods, from locations of proxie forces to attempt to blame-shift it to the Houthie. Who then turned around and said, no, Iran did this actually.

It absolutely matters where the attack came from, and who did it.

Even the Houthies think it matters very much.

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/g ... port-.html

https://en.radiofarda.com/a/khamenei-s- ... 77955.html

I agree. Israel has been successful against Iran in Syria because Israel knows no one wants Iran there and Iran is known to use Syrians and Lebanese as cannon fodder proxies for its war on Israel. Israel made Iranian presence and exploitation clear, dividing the forces in Syria.

Iran tried to counter that by having Sauds bust the yemeni Houties instead of the specific Iranian agents there. Not falling in this trap is key in pointing the fingers at Iran and cooling the Houtie belief in Iranian propaganda that Iran is there to free them from oppression. It is quite further from the truth.

[f-16.nutter]

So......Anyone got an idea when the F-35 will receive GaN jammers to receive VHF and UHF frequencies? I don't feel comfortable knowing that Damascus is 60kms away from Israel's border with S-300s placed over there while other waves get readings on the aircraft forget about the passive sensors monitoring emissions.

[milosh]

But seriously, was their any sort of Air Defense near?

Of course. They have couple of SAM systems Patriot, and two SHORADs AAA one and rocket one:
https://www.airforce-technology.com/pro ... -airforce/
https://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/ ... ahine.html

Did they down anything with SHORADs? I mean drones aren't fast and not stealthy so SHORADs would do job, so I think they sleep during attack.

As you see Arabs can be armed with best of best and still not use them as expected. So no wonder when Syrians leave Pantsyr exposed while rearming it.

[marsavian]

How do you explain the US/Saudi failure to stop Iranian drones?

They normally do when they come from the direction of Yemen. KSA did not expect the Iranians to be so audacious as to attack them from the North, a mistake they won't be repeating again. Patriots will now be positioned all around important sites.

You have Patriot and SkyGuard around refinery:

One Patriot battery and who knows in what direction the radar dish was pointing, the Saudis have already said it was not facing Iraq/Iran direction as they were not expecting an attack from that direction. Skyguard is just Oerlikon cannon.



Patriot will get 360 coverage with its new GaN AESA which also has two 1/4 size dishes to the sides and rear, Poland being the first customer.

https://armyrecognition.com/october_201 ... 10154.html
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... generation

Here is what the 360 degree setup looks like with Raytheon winning the initial contract.




https://defense-update.com/20191017_ltamds.html

The vulnerability of sectorial air defense systems was clearly demonstrated by the failure of Saudi Air Defenses to detect and warn of an air attack by Iranian cruise missiles and loitering weapons, that targeted oil refineries in Abqaiq and Khurais in Saudi-Arabia on the night of September 14, 2019. those weapons have flown bypassed the Saudi defenses by coming from the northwest, whereas the air defenses were pointed eastward, toward Iran. Deployment of sensors like LTAMDS is expected to close this gap, replacing the two sectorial covering types with full 360-degree coverage and higher sensitivity that improve the detection of small, agile and low signature targets.

[spazsinbad]

These are missing HOT LINK graphics. Please stop HOT LINKING. Please download & attach pics to this forum. Please....

https://defense-update.com/wp-content/u ... MDS360.png
&
https://defense-update.com/wp-content/u ... S_1021.jpg

[charlielima223]

https://breakingdefense.com/2019/10/lta ... e-defense/

An important caveat: while the Raytheon radar can see in all directions, it can’t see equally wellin all directions. That’s obvious from its design, with one large main array flanked by two smaller arrays, each of them fixed in place on a shared platform.

Raytheon’s Kelley confirmed it this morning in a call with reporters. “Against certain types of threats,” he said, the radar is equally capable in all directions, providing essentially a perfect circle of coverage. But the main frontal array is capable of detecting threats at higher altitudes than the side panels, he said.

Now, this is probably a smaller problem than it sounds. Why? Remember what we said about the difference between ballistic missiles, on the one hand, and “air-breathing” threats like cruise missiles and drones on the other. Ballistic missiles come in at staggering speeds – easily five times the speed of sound – from very high altitudes, because the ballistic courses which give them their name arc into the upper atmosphere and even through outer space. But the price of such speed is that ballistic missiles can’t turn: Except for very advanced models in their final stages of flight, they follow a course as predictable as a cannonball. So if you know roughly where your enemy’s launchers are, you can confidently point your radar in that direction.

By contrast, cruise missiles, drones, and manned aircraft can maneuver throughout their flight path, and they can come in low, but they can’t achieve the same extreme speed and altitude as ballistic missiles. That means the Raytheon LTAMDS’s side panels, with their limited high-altitude coverage, are probably still adequate to detect them far enough away for defenders to react.

Those side panels aren’t puny, either: Each one, though half the size of the current Patriot radar, is twice as powerful, Kelley said this morning. In other words, LTAMDS’ ability to detect sneak attacks from behind is twice as good as Patriot’s ability to detect a frontal attack.

How is this possible? Raytheon has spent decades investing in a next-generation material for radars, Gallium Nitride (GaN), that conducts electricity more efficiently than traditional Gallium Arsenide (GaAs). That means the same input in terms of electrical power produces a greater output in terms of radar range, precision, and search volume. Other companies have moved into GaN as well, but Raytheon actually has its own in-house foundry to build Gallium Nitride electronics on US soil, in Andover, Mass.

[marsavian]

https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-ne ... nse-radar/

In addition to being able to constantly cover 360 degrees, the radar can see farther than the currently fielded Patriot radar. That radar is unable to fully support the maximum kinematic range of the Patriot Advanced Capability-3 Missile Segment Enhancement that it fires. The Army claims that its effort to tie the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System with Patriot would help the MSE missile reach its full potential.

The LTAMDS will be able to fully support current missile systems including PAC-3 MSE range capability and future missiles ranges, Kelley said.