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Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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magitsu

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Unread post07 May 2020, 23:33

It leaves out that the The Center for the National Interest's CEO Dimitri Simes is a known as the Russian spy Maria Butina's handler. It might affect how one sees Axe's statement about Iran: "It is policy at @TheNatlInterest to write about the "threat" from Iran even if Iran isn't doing anything threatening."

boogieman wrote:Explains a lot doesn't it? Then again it doesn't excuse some of the drivel he trotted out at War Is Boring. His click bait anti-F35 crusade being a good example. Just goes to show that ascertaining the truth is of secondary (perhaps tertiary/ancillary) importance to these guys.

True, he seems to have been pretty much money not morals driven. Even the dad's death but no free time wasn't enough until he was out of 1800 bucks.
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boogieman

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Unread post07 May 2020, 23:45

magitsu wrote:It leaves out that the The Center for the National Interest's CEO Dimitri Simes is a known as the Russian spy Maria Butina's handler. It might affect how one sees Axe's statement about Iran: "It is policy at @TheNatlInterest to write about the "threat" from Iran even if Iran isn't doing anything threatening."

Amazing (and hardly surprising). You do have to wonder about Axe's own motives in this context.
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magitsu

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Unread post07 May 2020, 23:53

boogieman wrote:Amazing (and hardly surprising). You do have to wonder about Axe's own motives in this context.

Yeah, he's getting too much blind sympathy in the [twitter] thread. Bullshit peddler who finally got hurt enough by his own medium to act. Hope he actually changes course.
Last edited by magitsu on 08 May 2020, 12:43, edited 1 time in total.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post08 May 2020, 06:54

Can't say I have sympathy for him. I continued to print wrong information even though he knew it was wrong just trying to get money. It hurt his credibility and no major news source would hire him. Gee, a journalist with questionable credibility can't get hired anyone? He continued to destroy his credibility over the years, so why is it a surprise to anyone that he can't land a well paying job, have a large amount of subscribers, or a good interview for a story?
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Unread post11 May 2020, 22:42

This deserves an honorary mention for mainstream BUTTHURTeth MIGHTily quote from supposedly MainstimWhopperValve.
USAF abandons 80% mission capability rate goal after F-22, F-35 and F-16 fail to hit target
12 May 2020 Garrett Reim

"...F-35s and F-22s are notoriously difficult to maintain because of complex designs and stealth body coatings, [not F-35s <sarc on> they go to sea/salt environments just to corrode <sarc off> ] which must be periodically preserved by hand [how much hand labour is required to preserve ALL AIRCRAFT? Do machines do it for others? FUD]. In particular, the relatively new F-35 remains plagued with design and production problems resulting in some 873 deficiencies, according to the DoD’s most-recent Office of the Director of Operational Test & Evaluation report, released to the US Congress on 30 January."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 18.article
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XanderCrews

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Unread post12 May 2020, 14:57

spazsinbad wrote:What a wonderful TWITTER thread, many thanks for this 'eye-opener'. I like that headlines could contradict the story. :doh:
The National Interest Complaint
David Axe 06 May 2020

"As a journalist with nearly 20 years on the military news beat


So he's writing comedy now?

Journalism is tough racket these days. it turns out theres plenty of people who just write on the internet for free, and with more accurate information and knowledge as well

Axe and Rogoaway are both lying sensationalist clickbait types.


back in the old days of the chain smoking editor, the demands for proof were much higher, and they relied on sources.

There was a certain hitpiece on the F-35 and I just picked up the phone and called a buddy out in Yuma. in 5 seconds he said "we don't do that! LOL where did you hear that?" So an entire story could have been written truthfully if they had a source.

These guys aren't doing journalism. Theyre taking a series of things they read and twisting it to fit a narrative. at almost no point do they actually talk to anyone with knowledge beyond the regular PR people and flag ranks-- and thats often not direct but taken from someone else story.

not surprisingly copy paste journalism doesn't pay well

look at little old me without any training in journalism touching 2 buttons on my phone and having a more accurate picture than 2 "journalists" combined.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

they can screw themselves with a cactus. theres a reason Fake News is a very real phrase. Fred Reed has written extensively about how journalist have never been that great at covering the military, but the 21st century version is even worse, and thats absolutely terrible because accuracy has never been more important. Thats why I hate them so badly. They've tainted an entire generation with clickbait substituting for reality. misinformation travels and spreads at rates unprecedented in human history. Theyre contribution is "hot fuel trucks!" and "can't dogfight!"

and lastly Axe should know better than to call out an ex employer like that and over 1800? he must be hurting if they never pay him a dime, he's earned it.


Image

the reason Global Trumpism has taken hold is people figured out they were being lied to. Trump was smart enough to point this out and go to war with them. They blew the biggest story of 2016. Which subsequently meant they blew the biggest stories from 2008-2016. Several scandals that would have absolutely rocked the previous administration were set quietly by the wayside and not given any airtime or actively covered up. the irony is the press further gaslighting the public and calling Trump Divisive and cynical, for pointing out they were partisan and biased liars.

Rather cynical to point out how i lie to people
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optimist

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Unread post13 May 2020, 11:25

At last a man of honour. David Axe it seems was happy enough for years to write clickbait. As long as they paid him. It seems writing clickbait for free is what done him in. A step too far and brought on moral outrage. He wants what he thinks is due. $1,800 for writing shite. Thank god he has a new clickbait job. I was getting concerned half way through the rant. I wonder if he submitted it to his new boss? He might get paid for it, if he just changed the hed [sic].
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boogieman

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Unread post29 Jun 2020, 06:50

Was watching the following video on the state of EW in the DOD:

https://youtu.be/qR_PPGDnejo

Scrolled down to the comments section (first mistake) to find old mate Kurt Plummer at it again.
America is crippled across all defense sectors by divestments made since the Cold War. Innovation which has to include 'all agencies, allies and academia' is anti-thetical to the nature of EW which is always based on tricks, not TTP.

This is becoming ever more apparent as EA becomes chassis as much as processor specific across the front and back end of the system. 'TTP' level generalizations do NOT apply.

It used to be that we brought the broad spectrum table that others sat down to. Now it is the exact opposite.

If you are going to innovate EW and manage EMS, you have to BREAK cultures.

The Russians like artillery because it's cheap. You can buy 2-3 batteries for every fighter and improving performance in the weapons system is simply about a bigger tube in the MRL pack for a bigger motor pour rather than complex energetics improvements which only rarely pay out in the longer term (shorter shelf life, reduced safety and other issues).

What this means for us is acknowledging the utter waste of time that is airframe centric strike warfare and adopting a missile centric system.

The latter is important because it would immediately allow a shift in emphasis towards supersonic microturbine technologies as a cheaper-by-the-dozen alternative to complex LP, gel or solid rocket and HFDR while providing double the range and twice the service rate inherent to a one way ticket at Mach 2++.

With missiles, everything changes. From the bands you service to allow their passage through the defended WEZ to the time spent in that zone. Note that there was only ONE 'official' EW platform in the strikes on Syria and that was because there was EA aircraft have no wedge on highly advanced A2AD because they a sluggish and huge signatures in their own right.

This could change TOMORROW, if the concept of 'return on investment' meant a very high capability jammer, integrated on a very low observable airframe, unmanned, which could penetrate and use HPM levels of EA to burn out select radars, in combination with more traditional (MALD-J) mob jamming through the sidelobes. The little ravens deafen the radar, big crow pummels it to death.

These are furthermore conditions which MUST be emphasized because _Lasers Are Here_. And soon you will see optical surveillance systems integrated with them to destroy subsonic aircraft passing overhead (the deep defense rather than the 600km S-500) where acoustic and range tracking cameras are 1/3rd the cost of an EWR.

If we are very unlucky these systems will be matched by Russian hunting weapons (Turbo-SAM) which can kill targets within patrol zones measuring hundreds of MILES, before parachute recovery like the target drones they are based on.

If we do not stop throwing good money after bad on systems like the Panther, we will be viciously surprised when the threat thresholds across multiple, cheaper, counters and we can do NOTHING to leverage with EW because those systems are ALSO compromised by the new you IAMDS.

Let me add one other thing here: Freefall and glide munitions are terribly vulnerable as well. Not simply because of their dependence on height for standoff (exposing the launch airframe across an enormous, 'blue sky', horizon) but also because, at the terminal end, it is incredibly easy to kill them as they are seldom doing more than Mach 1.2 on impact.
The same technologies as are now implemented on tank APS systems, plus local hardening of structures, will allow intelligent fused 'Flak Rockets' to airburst these munitions even if the threat aircraft close to the ridiculously close 12-15nm ranges of a GBU-31/32 for release.

Buildings are harder than tanks because they are multi layer constructs. External blast damage does not bother them so even a 2,000lb, hammer class, PGM exploding 150ft overhead is not going to do more than scrub the antennas off the roof. Against bridges and more open structures like pipelines will likely not even scratch the paint.

This is NOT the case for a weapon which arrives over the target and 1,800 knots and is doing in excess of 3,000 in the terminal dive. Not only will you have a great deal more close aboard impacts from residual weapon frag and blast effects with a successful intercept, but you will also have a lot more saturation vulnerability as 2-3 weapons enter the laser WEZ within a ten second, pre-impact, interval. And within an SAPS (Structural Active Protection System) within 1-2 seconds.

Disenfranchising the massively over politicized Knights Of The Sky, Manned, Airpower syndicate from within our defense establishment is the number one 'culture change' which we have to effect. It is going to suck 1.65 TRILLION dollars from our outyear defense budgets to 2030 at least and will force us to tune EW towards an ultimately non-survivable, ineffective, warfighter methodology whose roots should be recognized as having had their light brigade warning shot in 1973 and whose heyday and swan song was 1991.

Because the enemy is not going to satisfy themselves with swatting at individual mosquitoes, they are going to attack the nest. And missile systems, whether TEL or VLS based, can disaggregatively disperse to make individual targeting far harder to achieve than 10,000ft of concrete, weapons shelters, tank farms and TAB-V. Or a 1,000ft long, 100,000 ton, ready made radiation mazcat that is the CVN.

If we were to go with a Hoplite + HSSW (300+900, Mach 3 and Mach 7) capability, we could easily rescale our EW towards the tactical, battlefield, level on the simple basis that a missile which is able to remove the bus vehicle cost can be inventoried in sufficient numbers to break apart BTG or Tank Armies on a reactive basis. Provided we can find them through their emissions and mess with their active protection systems reaction window.

These are the directions we need to be thinking of.

As usual there is a lot of drivel to sift through. That said I do think a return to peer-conflict oriented EW and the development of doctrine to direct/organise it is called for. The other side seem to be ahead of us in this domain and it is a gap I'd like to see closed.
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lbk000

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Unread post29 Jun 2020, 08:58

So how do you solve target generation with this missiles only doctrine? Missile knows where to hit because it knows where not to?
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Unread post29 Jun 2020, 09:37

Can't find sound file elsewhere on forum BuT i know it's there somewhere - meanwhile: USAF Training Missile Nonsense
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Unread post29 Jun 2020, 10:13

lbk000 wrote:So how do you solve target generation with this missiles only doctrine? Missile knows where to hit because it knows where not to?

Who knows. A while back his favourite concept was using hoards of super-cruising UAS as an air superiority solution, armed with barely-supersonic high endurance turbofan propelled AAMs.

As usual, the "analysis" is devoid of context, so it is anyone's guess how he would intend to field such a missile centric system in Europe or the Pacific, and how it would service all the needed targets while also providing sufficient weight of fire for things like DCA & BAI, not to mention ISR (as you mentioned) etc etc.
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Unread post29 Jun 2020, 16:41

spazsinbad wrote:Can't find sound file elsewhere on forum BuT i know it's there somewhere - meanwhile: USAF Training Missile Nonsense


I love that one! :D

One comment on what is changing in net centric concepts however. Algebraic linear and separate targeting formula are becoming obsolete. The concept is that "all sensors" feed the "blob" (cloud whatever) the "Blob knows all." Effectors then use the blob to find real time attack information, in many cases, not knowing where their weapons are going, what the targets are, or even what weapons they fired. They just toss weapons/effectors into the mess and the network sorts it out. Data Fusion is more than a buzzword. Addressing the complete kill chain is more important than ever. Keep thinking about how we use Siri. There's an App for that!

I don't google "Denver Broncos tickets" anymore ... that's so "2004." Now, I just tell Siri, "I'd really like to go to the game this week." She replies, "I found some tickets, reserved your parking and a place for drinks after the game, turn left at fork ahead, to pick up Joe, he said he would love to go too." There is a difference between phone books, Google and Siri.

MHO,
BP

PS If you really want to blow your mind, remember Siri is not some central AI Skynet machine. There are billions of Siri's all "being Siri" together ... or apart .. or sort of coordinating ... or not ... or ...

Killing Siri is like "whack a mole" ... not easy.
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Unread post29 Jun 2020, 19:12

Beware of alternate force structure proposals that contain no cost arguments while criticizing
the current forces structure on the basis of cost.

I don't think he understands how expensive miniature turbojets are for subsonic weapons
(compare JSOW-C-1 to JSOW-C-1-ER) let alone ones that have to work at supersonic speeds
greater than Mach 1.2 for an extended period of time.
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Unread post30 Jun 2020, 01:13

It's a pretty bizarre concept. Ideally you want an AAM that gets there faster to deny the target defensive options, not one that is slower and therefore provides the target with all the time in the world to break the kill chain before it arrives.
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Unread post30 Jun 2020, 01:48

boogieman wrote:It's a pretty bizarre concept. Ideally you want an AAM that gets there faster to deny the target defensive options, not one that is slower and therefore provides the target with all the time in the world to break the kill chain before it arrives.


A counter fixed-wing, turbojet-based AAM actually makes complete sense provided you have a sprint stage.

Something like this was actually proposed by RAND; basically a signature reduced
Miniature Air Launched Interceptor (MALI): Mach 1-ish cruise with an AMRAAM second stage.
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