F-35 Auto-GCAS Team to Receive 2018 Collier Trophy

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quicksilver

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Unread post31 May 2019, 04:14

“Is this too new to even ask about and TBD?”

I am unfamiliar with details of the sw implementation, but I don’t think it’s even installed in operational jets yet.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post31 May 2019, 06:08

outlaw162 wrote:It still amazes me that people think the primary purpose of this engineering miracle is to save lives.

It's a side bar compared to saving a $100,000,000 aircraft. Pilots are a dime a dozen....good ones maybe 20 cents/dozen. Pilots would fly the machines with or without auto-GCAS....consistently good pilots generally would not need saving.

Realistically, the crux of the matter here is that the folks in command positions want to avoid fatal class 'A's to keep their commands, and as well, the folks paying for the machines want something pilot-proof.



The pilot I talked to was the opposite. He said all the old school guys (command) want to fly the airplane, and the young pilots having grown up with technology are more of the "theres an 'app' for that right?"

YMMV
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outlaw162

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Unread post31 May 2019, 16:58

Yes, and nowhere is that attitude more prevalent than the airline business.

Maybe it's a good thing, maybe not. The 2 MAX crashes are pretty good examples of 'systems designed to make things safer by taking the pilot out of the loop' gone awry.

Had a young airline guy in the right seat as a test subject doing fairly complicated RNAV arrivals in an A-330 sim. We alternated PF on each run. On one run I clicked off the auto-pilot to hand fly. With all seriousness, he commented, "I get nervous when people do that." Sign of the times.

Except for the AOA limiter on the F-16, every mil aircraft I flew would have allowed me to get myself in as much trouble as I could dream up. The only thing between me and disaster was me.

So once again, maybe it's a good thing as far as preserving both assets....ejections generally only preserved the 7 mil asset, not the 100 mil one....but it could also be a step in the career path to commissary officer for some pilots. If I had to take control of the aircraft from the checkee on a checkride, trainers, fighters or heavies, it was a bust. This has parallels to that.

(Wasn't 'psychometrics' the movie with Janet Leigh in the shower? :shock: )
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Gums

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Unread post31 May 2019, 18:45

Salute!

Thanks, outlaw!

There's a situation for Hal to "suggest" something, and there might be a situation when Hal says, " Dave, I can't let you do that".

The problem with the GCAS and other "protections" is when the pilot atually knows better than Hal !!!!

E.G. I am dropping down to strafe in my Warthog, and I have done the same profile a thousand times when Hal decides I am gonna kill myself. And him! But his brain is in the cloud someplace and ready to take over in another system. I miss the bad guys and my grunt friends are toast.

The AF447 episode is more relevant than the current 737 fiasco. I have been a frequent poster on the latest, and my view from the fighter community has been accepted for the most part. AF447 was a different problem, and the 'bus "protections" had a fault that the accident clearly showed. As with the Viper, "you can't stall this plane", right? And as with the Viper, the pliot can figure out a way to beat the system with a little help from a programming fault. Hence, we could get into a deep stall and the 'bus crew that night could get "deeply stalled". They did not recognize a stall due to apparent good aero characteristics of the plane. Sat there for over three minutes watching the altimiter unwind while pulling back on the stick the whole way until impact.

Our cadre back in 1980 or 81 did not like the idea of GCAS unless we had override with the paddle switch coupled with an alert that Hal was about to take over. And then there's the mid-air version which I do not see in effect. We have good video of mid-airs that a collision avoidance and flashing "cross" in the HUD could have prevented. Oh well.

Any GCAS should use a lotta inputs other than strict velocity vector and calculated "pull" capability. Gee-loc comes to mind.

If you read the thousand posts about the 737 MCAS over on pPrune blog, you will be "educated".

Gums sends...
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post10 Jun 2019, 17:16

Here is a detailed PDF on the F-35 AGCAS testing that just came out on June 7th, 2019.

I put it over on the Program Docs page.
viewtopic.php?p=421517#p421517
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rheonomic

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Unread post14 Jun 2019, 02:15

Gums wrote:There's a situation for Hal to "suggest" something, and there might be a situation when Hal says, " Dave, I can't let you do that".

The problem with the GCAS and other "protections" is when the pilot atually knows better than Hal !!!!

Our cadre back in 1980 or 81 did not like the idea of GCAS unless we had override with the paddle switch coupled with an alert that Hal was about to take over.

Pilot can override GCAS with stick inputs and it can also be disabled with a HUD switch (I think for example you can watch the video of one of the saves where GCAS activates, pilot comes back to reality from GLOC, has an oh **** moment, and takes over with a much higher G pullout). It's pretty clear from the HUD when GCAS is about to take over also.
Gums wrote:And then there's the mid-air version which I do not see in effect. We have good video of mid-airs that a collision avoidance and flashing "cross" in the HUD could have prevented. Oh well.

That's still in the works (I think it's primarily for cooperative targets right now). Eventually ACAS and GCAS will be integrated together to become ICAS.
Gums wrote:If you read the thousand posts about the 737 MCAS over on pPrune blog, you will be "educated".

Part of the problem is that the team that designed MCAS were a bunch of ****** idiots; it's almost like they were deliberately trying to get everything wrong. MCAS is going to end up as one of those classic engineering "here's what not to do" cases in future textbooks...
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Unread post19 Jun 2019, 17:57

Auto-GCAS team integrates life-saving system on F-35, wins Collier trophy
19 Jun 2019 NAVair

"Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland--The F-35 Joint Program Office Auto Ground Collision Avoidance System team received the 2018 Robert J. Collier Trophy, June 13, for its rapid design, integration and flight test of critical, lifesaving technology for the global F-35 fleet during a ceremony at the National Air and Space Museum.

Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto-GCAS) is a technology designed to save a pilot from crashing into the ground in the event of a sudden loss of consciousness or target fixation by activating and taking control from the pilot to return the plane to safe altitude.

Initial testing of the Auto-GCAS began in 2018 on the F-35A at Edwards Air Force Base, California. As Edward’s F-35 Integrated Test Force (ITF) issued its technical report recommending the system for the A variant to the Joint Program Office, the F-35 Pax River ITF began flight tests on the B variant in early 2019, followed by the C variant.

“The Pax ITF test team is working hard to ensure the fleet is provided an Auto-GCAS system that runs silently in the background while never impeding the warfighter’s maneuverability,” said Lt. Cdr. William Bowen, F-35 test pilot at the Pax River ITF. “In addition to evaluating Auto-GCAS performance, one of our main goals is to ensure the operator has confidence in the system so as to keep it turned on. Thus far, we have not identified any nuisances with the system interface and are satisfied with its performance.”

With the system’s successful flight tests complete on the A and B variants, the fleet will receive Auto-GCAS starting later this year, seven years ahead of schedule….

...The Pax River ITF is on schedule to wrap up testing on the C variant in June.
"


Photo: "F-35 test pilot Dan Levin, Pax River Integrated Test Force, flies an Auto Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto-GCAS) test flight in an F-35C on a low level through West Virginia, June 17, 2019. Flying the low level helps stress the Auto-GCAS software to confirm there are no false collision warnings while flying as close to the ground as operationally representative. The F-35 Enterprise begins fielding Auto-GCAS on the F-35 fleet in 2019. US Navy photo" http://www.navair.navy.mil/comfrc/osbp/ ... 99-058.jpg (1 Mb)


ZOOM PIC: https://i.imgur.com/FX6YrEJ.jpg

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Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/comfrc/osbp/ ... 92019-1122


http://www.navair.navy.mil/comfrc/osbp/ ... 99-058.jpg

Image
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