JASDF F-35A crashed

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steve2267

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 23:00

Still... even if the gizmo was working, and he was able to keep the shiny side up... a (near) complete loss of all the other squirrels, in the soup like that, is nothing to sneeze at. Though he apparently still had comms... it sounded like his navaids were all tango uniform too. Successfully recovering from all that would have been hairy.

I lost all electrical once on base for Dayton Int'l at night. It was bad enough the family was all aboard. At least it wasn't in the soup.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 23:02

steve2267 wrote:
outlaw162 wrote:Is AutoGCAS not a player here? What is the pilot initiated automatic recovery system? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Assuming the pilot had the backup AI in the upper right corner of the cockpit, and it was battery powered... I think your earlier comments are spot on....

Steve, there was confusion because of the SD caused by two AIs giving conflicting information when the pilot was trying to cope. Please read the quotes from the accident report or the report itself. Pilot was close to the ground (seeing the trees twice) & disorientated trying to get re-orientated however the SD has an agenda of its own. We have referred earlier to 'recognised SD but no time/altitude to recover'. This is one of those situations with Backup AI Battery Powered or not.

I did not see this mentioned in my speed reading of the report however this illusion may have played a part to bolster SD.
[quote]"...Somatogravic illusions
There are three versions of the somatogravic illusion. Both involve the body’s inability to distinguish pitch changes from acceleration.
1. The leans
This common illusion is a false sensation of roll. It gets its name because pilots lean to one side in order to cancel out the false sensation. Leaning your body is the right way to counter the leans; rolling your aircraft is the wrong response. The leans often happen when a pilot looks down at a map, radio or instruments, and the aircraft goes into a gentle, banked turn that is too slow for the vestibular system to detect. Typically, the pilot looks up, and corrects the bank. But because this correction is fast enough to be felt by the inner ear, visual and vestibular information get out of sync and the leans occur. This illusion can occur in good visual flight conditions.…" viewtopic.php?f=22&t=55255&p=421784&hilit=condition#p421784
Last edited by spazsinbad on 11 Feb 2020, 23:08, edited 1 time in total.
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outlaw162

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 23:08

Spaz,

You're the kinda of guy I would want on my AIB. :D

Steve,

I don't think the super squirrel powered the standby AI (don't remember), but the aircraft battery was theoretically good for at least 30 minutes of battery bus power IIRC.

Dayton Intl :shock: the Ohio Triangle :D

edit: forgot to mention the obvious for the electrics, the hydrazine, but when I had a generator oil line come loose, the hydrazine fired up momentarily and then quit. Coming off the range in clear wx. Approach end arrestment at TUS.
Last edited by outlaw162 on 12 Feb 2020, 00:42, edited 5 times in total.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 23:14

I AM THAT GUY "IF IN DOUBT - PUNCH OUT" and consider this paleo-otholitico illusion0 - remember pilot just TO in cloud.
""...2.1.1 The somatogravic illusion
The somatogravic illusion is also known by various other descriptive terms, such as the dark night take-off illusion, the pitch-up illusion and the inversion illusion (Benson, 1988a; Buley & Spelina, 1970; Campbell & Bagshaw, 2002; Gillingham & Previc, 1996; Lane, 1958). At the heart of this illusion is a strong sensation of pitching up during aircraft acceleration, as would be experienced during take-off. The illusion generally occurs in conditions of poor visual cues, such as night operations or instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). During a take-off in such conditions, the vestibular system (in particular, the otolith organs) will accurately register the linear acceleration involved in the take-off process. However, in the absence of visual information that would confirm the actual flight path of the aircraft, the brain instead assumes that the linear acceleration is in fact a pitch up event. The unwitting pilot then pushes forward on the control column, in order to cancel out the sensation of too much pitch up, and to achieve a feeling of normal pitch. This manoeuvre then results in a pitching down of the aircraft, and since this illusion generally occurs during a low altitude setting with takeoff, the inherent risk is that the aircraft is flown into the ground...." https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29971/b20070063.pdf
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Unread post26 May 2020, 11:20

https://flyteam.jp/news/article/124987

2020/05/25

Aomori Prefecture, Misawa AB, JASDF has 17 F-35A.
From late 2019, Auto GCAS is gradually added to them as software upgrades.

During fiscal year 2020, Misawa AB will equip four more F-35A, with Auto GCAS already installed.
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Unread post26 May 2020, 13:37

AUTiO GCASio reportedio hereio firstio 23rdio Mayio 2020io: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=55257&p=440223&hilit=GCAS#p440223
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