F-35A at Red Flag 19-1

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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XanderCrews

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Unread post30 Jan 2019, 02:07

vilters wrote:Ok, here we go again…. What Airframe do you want to win this year? So we can re-write the ROE's.

There "games" are so predictable. What year did the A-10 have the most A2A kills?
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2019 now : What airframe do you want to sell this year?



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squirrelshoes

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 13:55

vilters wrote:What year did the A-10 have the most A2A kills?

That was 1990, when Red Team ditched the F-5s and switched to helicopters for a year.

The training proved invaluable the following year of course, when an A-10 racked up the first air-to-air gun kill in decades versus a helicopter. If not for the A-10 dominance in Red Flag that year and the iterations of dogfights against helicopters USAF might well have lost an A-10 that year to that Iraqi helicopter.
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marsavian

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 14:05

TBF, the A-10 is quite a tight turner even if its speed/acceleration/altitude are limited.
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vilters

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 14:32

More serious would be to give twenty F-22 to RED.
Give twenty F-35 to Blue.
And give live ammo and missiles to all. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
At least they"ll sh*t their pants and KNOW this is NOT a game anymore.
But? We would have TRUE results.
This concludes the end of dreamland…. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

ROE's are meant for safety of everybody involved.
Unfortunately, I know of NO enemy that "plays" by ROE's. They shoot to KILL, and are not scared to break a rule or 2,3,4,5....

But a RED Force with F-22 and F-16, against a BLUE Force of F-35 and F-15.

Then halfway in, you add """ Without warning or briefing""" a yellow force with some 30 Navy F-18 with a single ROE : Hard deck is 10.000 ft, all the rest is "game ON."
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optimist

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 15:40

So if flying planes are no good. What do you think about sims. Obviously the f-35 sims are no good, even though that's the only place they do their secret stuff. Do you think any of those expensive full battle space sims are worth it?
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sferrin

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 16:04

marsavian wrote:TBF, the A-10 is quite a tight turner even if its speed/acceleration/altitude are limited.


A helicopter even more so. AIM-9Xs on a Cobra or Apache could give somebody a bad day.
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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 16:05

optimist wrote:So if flying planes are no good. What do you think about sims. Obviously the f-35 sims are no good, even though that's the only place they do their secret stuff. Do you think any of those expensive full battle space sims are worth it?


The results would say, "are you joking"?
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wrightwing

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 16:29

vilters wrote:More serious would be to give twenty F-22 to RED.
Give twenty F-35 to Blue.
And give live ammo and missiles to all. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
At least they"ll sh*t their pants and KNOW this is NOT a game anymore.
But? We would have TRUE results.
This concludes the end of dreamland…. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

ROE's are meant for safety of everybody involved.
Unfortunately, I know of NO enemy that "plays" by ROE's. They shoot to KILL, and are not scared to break a rule or 2,3,4,5....

But a RED Force with F-22 and F-16, against a BLUE Force of F-35 and F-15.

Then halfway in, you add """ Without warning or briefing""" a yellow force with some 30 Navy F-18 with a single ROE : Hard deck is 10.000 ft, all the rest is "game ON."

You have some serious misconceptions on how exercises work. Their mission briefs are the same as they would be, in real combat. The pilots aren't told "today, you will face the following threats, coming from _____ direction/altitude. Secondly, the OPFOR doesn't go easy on the Blue Forces, in order to generate desired outcomes. The desired outcome is better trained pilots, not pilots with unrealistic expectations.
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steve2267

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 16:49

vilters wrote:More serious would be to give twenty F-22 to RED.
Give twenty F-35 to Blue.
And give live ammo and missiles to all. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
At least they"ll sh*t their pants and KNOW this is NOT a game anymore.
But? We would have TRUE results.
This concludes the end of dreamland…. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:


Ummmm... soooo.... the results of the 1st Iraqi War (aka Desert Storm circa 1991) were not TRUE or REAL?

The results of the 2nd Iraqi War were not TRUE or REAL?

All those American military pilots quoted as saying "Wow! Red Flag was harder than" the mission he just flew? Yeah, they obviously have no clue what they were talking about.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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hythelday

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 17:40

steve2267 wrote:
vilters wrote:More serious would be to give twenty F-22 to RED.
Give twenty F-35 to Blue.
And give live ammo and missiles to all. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
At least they"ll sh*t their pants and KNOW this is NOT a game anymore.
But? We would have TRUE results.
This concludes the end of dreamland…. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:


Ummmm... soooo.... the results of the 1st Iraqi War (aka Desert Storm circa 1991) were not TRUE or REAL?

The results of the 2nd Iraqi War were not TRUE or REAL?

All those American military pilots quoted as saying "Wow! Red Flag was harder than" the mission he just flew? Yeah, they obviously have no clue what they were talking about.


Yep, too busy selling all those A-10 and F-22 to foreign customers, as vilters said. Oh, wait...

sferrin wrote:
marsavian wrote:TBF, the A-10 is quite a tight turner even if its speed/acceleration/altitude are limited.


A helicopter even more so. AIM-9Xs on a Cobra or Apache could give somebody a bad day.


Israeli Apache shot down that Iranian drone with an AAM; don't think they released the weapon system, but I believe it was the AIM-92 Stinger.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post31 Jan 2019, 18:37

vilters wrote:More serious would be to give twenty F-22 to RED.
Give twenty F-35 to Blue.
And give live ammo and missiles to all. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
At least they"ll sh*t their pants and KNOW this is NOT a game anymore.
But? We would have TRUE results.
This concludes the end of dreamland…. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

ROE's are meant for safety of everybody involved.
Unfortunately, I know of NO enemy that "plays" by ROE's. They shoot to KILL, and are not scared to break a rule or 2,3,4,5....

But a RED Force with F-22 and F-16, against a BLUE Force of F-35 and F-15.

Then halfway in, you add """ Without warning or briefing""" a yellow force with some 30 Navy F-18 with a single ROE : Hard deck is 10.000 ft, all the rest is "game ON."
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XanderCrews

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Unread post01 Feb 2019, 04:27

vilters wrote:More serious would be to give twenty F-22 to RED.
Give twenty F-35 to Blue.
And give live ammo and missiles to all. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
At least they"ll sh*t their pants and KNOW this is NOT a game anymore.
But? We would have TRUE results.
This concludes the end of dreamland…. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

ROE's are meant for safety of everybody involved.
Unfortunately, I know of NO enemy that "plays" by ROE's. They shoot to KILL, and are not scared to break a rule or 2,3,4,5....

But a RED Force with F-22 and F-16, against a BLUE Force of F-35 and F-15.

Then halfway in, you add """ Without warning or briefing""" a yellow force with some 30 Navy F-18 with a single ROE : Hard deck is 10.000 ft, all the rest is "game ON."


Whew, this post just oozes credibility doesn't it? Look I know you love to try and be edgy like your some Red Team phenom but this has got to be the most absurd thing youve ever posted, (and thats really saying something given your history.) when you were in your air force did you actually suggest stuff like this? or just think it? Did Belgians train this way? How many billions of dollars of men and machines did you go through over the years? and to what end?

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Whats the Belgian obsession with doing really stupid stuff with live ammo?
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Unread post09 Feb 2019, 01:12

'SWP' pointed to this story on another thread however I reckon it is worth repeating here due topic etc....
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=25426&p=411073&hilit=flag#p411073
'Trial by Flag' for new F-35A pilots
08 Feb 2019 388th Fighter Wing Public Affairs

"...“I haven’t been flying that long. There are things that stand out in my career. My first solo flight, my first F-35 flight and my first Red Flag mission. I don’t think I’ll ever forget those things,” said 1st Lt. Landon Moores, a new F-35A Lightning II pilot with the 388th Fighter Wing’s 4th Fighter Squadron. Moores is one of a handful of young F-35A pilots who recently graduated their initial training and are currently deployed here as part of Red-Flag 19-1. Now they are being battle-tested. “Going from F-35 training a little over a month ago to a large force exercise with dozens of aircraft in the sky is pretty crazy,” Moores said. “For the initial part of the first mission, I was just kind of sitting there listening. I was nervous. I was excited. Then the training kicked in.”

Red Flag is the Air Force’s premier combat training exercise where units from across the Department of Defense join with allied nations in a “blue force” to combat a “red force” in a variety of challenging scenarios over three weeks. “For us, the biggest difference between this Red Flag and our first with the F-35A two years ago is that we have a lot of pilots on their first assignment,” said Lt. Col. Yosef Morris, 4th FS commander. “Putting them alongside more experienced wingmen is what Red Flag was designed for.” What combat training looks like has changed dramatically over the years, Morris said.

“When I was a young pilot in the F-16, I had a couple of responsibilities in the cockpit. One, don’t lose sight of my flight lead. Two, keep track of a bunch of green blips on a small screen in front of me, and correlate the blips to what someone is telling me on the radio,” Morris said. “Now, we’re flying miles apart and interpreting and sharing information the jets gather, building a threat and target picture. We’re asking way more of young wingmen, but we’re able to do that because of their training and the capabilities of the jet.”... [then a former A-10 pilot rattles on so go read it at the URL]

...The threat level is high at Red Flag. From the skill and size of the aggressor forces in the air to the complexity and diversity of the surface to air threats, there is a real sense of the ‘fog and friction’ of war. The adversary force also uses space and cyber warfare to take out or limit technology that modern warfighters rely on. Cutting through the clutter is a strength of the F-35A.

“One of the jet’s greatest assets is to see things that others can’t, take all the information it’s gathering from the sensors and present them to the pilot,” Moores said. “One of our biggest jobs is learning how to process and prioritize that. For the more experienced pilots it seems like it is second nature. … If we don’t, it’s not like we’re getting killed (in the F-35), but we could be doing more killing.”

The pilots say seeing the F-35A’s capabilities being put to use as part of a larger force has been invaluable. “When we mission plan with other units, it’s not always about kicking down the door,” said Rosenau “It may be about looking at what the enemy is presenting and ‘thinking skinny.’ With the F-35, we can think through a mission and choose how we want to attack it to make everyone more survivable.”

Source: https://www.388fw.acc.af.mil/News/Artic ... 5a-pilots/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Feb 2019, 12:26

Any news on the F-35’s performance at RF19-1? This silence is deafening! Very unusual of new fifth gen participating in RF. When the Raptor had their first few RF performance, lots of news of its crazy overmatch emerged rapidly.
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sferrin

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Unread post11 Feb 2019, 15:19

gc wrote:Any news on the F-35’s performance at RF19-1? This silence is deafening! Very unusual of new fifth gen participating in RF. When the Raptor had their first few RF performance, lots of news of its crazy overmatch emerged rapidly.


Obviously it's because it's getting it's a$$ kicked. :roll:
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