F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 14:52
by garrya
Does any one know what happened to this F-35 and why its coating is like that?
1326C0FD-B0DD-4647-A014-E80A45777066.jpeg

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 16:21
by jaws
Same problem plagues the Viper: RAM in certain areas cracks after years of application. Normally the splitter above the intake, intake lip, intake leading up to engine (ripples), and the vertical surface between the flaperons and horizontal stabilizers. Send the aircraft to corrosion control for some TLC.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 17:39
by aussiebloke
If you do a Google Images search on this image you find out that it shows Lt Cdr Ian Tidball RN taxing out at Edwards Air Force Base. This is therefore likely to be one of the three F-35Bs used by the British RAF and RN personnel for operational testing and evaluation at Edwards AFB.

My guess is that, in this role, maintaining the LO coating is not a high priority.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 18:55
by smsgtmac
That's a start on provenance. Thanks aussiebloke. My search on that info brings up just a Pinterest pic that is only 236 × 157. A blow up of a shrunk down pic raises more questions about what we're seeing than answered ones. The word 'artifacts' comes to mind.
If anyone is really interested in what they're seeing, I guess they could dredge the Royal Navy photo archives for the original.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 21:43
by spazsinbad
Six page PDF of 'BLACK KNIGHTS at Edwards AFB' story from AirForces Monthly Jan 2018 magazine with TIDBALL attached.

‘Black Knights’ in AFM Jan 2018: https://airforcesmonthly.keypublishing. ... ts-in-afm/

Jamie Hunter probably took the photo under question whilst searching 'pinterist' is an exercise in futility I reckon YMMV.

Back in Apr 2013 TIDBALL took first flight in an F-35B at Eglin AFB:
https://www.aetc.af.mil/News/Article-Di ... orce-base/

JPG: https://media.defense.gov/2013/May/17/2 ... 49-001.JPG (0.6Mb) [zoom below]

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 22:04
by spazsinbad
IF the UK Queen had an ANNUS HORRIBULLUS then this is similar to above photo poorly reproduced because... go here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_horribilis

https://issuu.com/navynews/docs/201507 RN Navy News July 2015 page 5 (JPG ZOOMED wot else)

JUST A THOT: Wouldn't it be NICE if the OP gave us the source of the photo? Instead we go down pintwist RABBIT HOLES.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 06 Jan 2019, 17:09
by garrya
spazsinbad wrote:JUST A THOT: Wouldn't it be NICE if the OP gave us the source of the photo? Instead we go down pintwist RABBIT HOLES.

It came up to me from a random chinese site so i have no idea where it originally came from

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 06 Jan 2019, 21:14
by spazsinbad
Is it beneath you to give a link/url to this picture/site?

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 00:43
by garrya

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 01:13
by spazsinbad
Cannot get any translation so here are photos again from: http://inews.gtimg.com/newsapp_bt/0/6920535904/641

Image

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 02:12
by zhangmdev
Basically that article says it discovered the blistering coating around the edge of canopy showing F-35 has fatal defects. US has deployed so many F-35s, they cannot keep up with the maintenance. US spent huge amount of money on the 3rd generation stealth coating, but it turns out to be not enough. Russia has the same problem. China has better materal, J-20 never has such problem. Finally it lamented J-20's engine is not good enough, and the evil Lockheed Martin makes too much money.

Usual material from Chinese internet, only good for entertainment. Anyway, the jet pictured likely is one of the first F-35s of UK, BK-2?

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/250th-f ... tion-line/

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 02:57
by spazsinbad
Thanks for translation. Meanwhile from the above URL: https://ukdj.imgix.net/2017/12/38GpPO-O ... cb47a98538

https://ukdj.imgix.net/2017/12/38GpPO-O ... 86-319.jpg ZOOMED to bubbles around canopy external seal.

Image

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 07:42
by element1loop
OK, I'll say it. garrya's first image looks so typical of a coating applied to a poorly cleaned surface where the cured coating did not come into contact with the surface to be covered at any point due to intervening grunge.

WAG = sealant

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 16:24
by smsgtmac
No, let me say it. Given the only place anyone has seen what looks like what is in this photo at a Chinese media site...is at that media site, and with no other evidence to the contrary, I see this as a photoshopped propaganda designed for internal consumption to keep the local yokels alert against the imperialist Yankee dogs. But that's just me.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 17:10
by sprstdlyscottsmn
And then I'll say, does it matter? When they did the RCS testing they met the RCS spec after using a knife to gouge 8 inch long cuts in the skin. IF, and I do mean IF, an F-35 has blistering about the cockpit then e1loops explanation is reasonable and that still doesn't mean an F-35 becomes a B-52 on radar. It might degrade it to an F-117, maybe.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 17:13
by quicksilver
Non-story. Jets (all...ALL) get minor dings and are repaired all the time — as in routinely. Not all dings require immediate resolution, and once resolved are not always perfect nor permanent. Thus they may require another round of repair(s).

Non-story.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 17:22
by lamoey
I saw this on a display bird at Ellington Field in fall of 2017 and asked the attending tech sergeant about it. He said it was a common result of the hot sun baking the aircraft while sitting on the ground in hot places like Arizona.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 17:24
by sprstdlyscottsmn
I can see that.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 17:25
by spazsinbad
Perhaps that 'bubbly infill stuff' is what is referred to in this 'DailyFail' artickle posted by 'marsavian' recently 10 Dec 2018:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=407067&hilit=coat%2A#p407067

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:07
by SpudmanWP
As it seems to only affect the canopy frame, the fix seems obvious fix: What about making a outer cover of silver-backed bubble-wrap like I use in my car?

It can fit on the outside and clip on the canopy lip. It will also keep the cockpit cooler.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:10
by spazsinbad
Heheh 'SWP' you have reminded me of that 'famous' F-35 pilot quote that he could fly it with a BAG OVER HIS HEAD! :devil:
:twisted: :roll: Also that TINFOIL could be a great poorman RADIATION SHIELD for B61 when not practice bombing? :drool: :mrgreen:

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:15
by quicksilver
So, now — from inter web sites and anecdotal observation — we’ve not only determined the failure modes, but also the root cause and the corrective action...

:whistle:

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:23
by lamoey
It also means that the aircraft is really only suited for cold places like Norway and Canada 8)

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:28
by spazsinbad
:doh: :devil: Turn Off the Bubble Machine :devil: :doh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XckUgehsyw


Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:37
by willhan
Photoshopped? Seriously?

http://213.122.161.212/fotoweb/Grid.fwx?archiveId=5003&search=(IPTC025%20contains(17%20Squadron))


001.png


002.jpg


This photo was taken at Edwards AFB on May 19, 2015, according to the EXIF.


Perhaps the 'deferral' theory can explain this:
Certain F-35 panels do have deferrals on them, which means we can wait a certain number of days before the LO is fully restored. Some have a five-day deferral. It means we might finish the bulk of the job on a Monday, which gives us a few days to fly the jet ‘green’, as we call it. Then we’ll have a crew come in on Friday or Saturday to fix the LO so it can cure over the weekend, and by Monday it’s fully ready to go.’

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=53691&p=383546

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 20:27
by lamoey
Here is a picture I took of the blistering cockpit.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 21:08
by SpudmanWP
It seems to me that a "whole canopy" solution would address the obvious heat issue inside the cockpit (evidenced by the existing shield) and any external frame issues. It also has the added benefit of keeping the cockpit cooler than the existing inside shield could do.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 21:36
by ChippyHo
If you look closely at some of the posted images L-M has on the Flickr site, it looks like the coating is actually a tape like material.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 760927062/
It certainly "bubbles" or distorts - BUT - if it is a taple like material it should be an easy and quick fix
(please note i said SHOULD be)

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2019, 21:51
by spazsinbad
lamoey wrote:Here is a picture I took of the blistering cockpit.

:mrgreen: I went looking for that contraption - thanks. Now a BLAST from the PAST! Click Pic to read text + ZOOM

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 00:23
by element1loop
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:And then I'll say, does it matter? ... It might degrade it to an F-117, maybe.


ADD IF,

If the RCS material molecules have not chemically altered into something else, they should keep absorbing radar wavelengths to spec regardless.

END IF

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 02:54
by johnwill
Here's another blast from the past, a B-58 escape capsule from 1962, good for Mach 2 ejections. The airplane could be flown from inside a closed capsule.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 03:13
by sferrin
Why not just do this? You wouldn't leave a Ferrari out in the blazing heat if you didn't need to. Why leave an $80 million jet?

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 03:31
by spazsinbad
B-58escapePodSupersonic A_H_2018_07.pdf attached from Aviation History Magazine July 2018

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 03:48
by spazsinbad
sferrin wrote:Why not just do this? You wouldn't leave a Ferrari out in the blazing heat if you didn't need to. Why leave an $80 million jet?

My question would be: "What is happening with these aircraft on deck?" Are they being readied for cocooning? (A long duration storage on deck, being completely "wrapped in white plastic"?). Or is this a short term day by day occurrence? I was just astonished as a child wandering about the flight deck of 'visiting Sydney Australia USS Coral Sea probably' in mid 1960s with some aircraft (F-4s probably) cocooned on deck. They had me baffled. CORAL SEA was on way back to the States from the war I guess with the damaged ones being ready to be craned off at wharf there. I dunno just my guess.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 08 Jan 2019, 04:22
by spazsinbad
B-58A Canopy & Crew Escape Capsules 22 page PDF from Flight Manual 28 Mar 1969 attached:

https://www.filefactory.com/file/8lrxsv ... Manual.pdf (82.5Mb)

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 20:38
by spazsinbad
Looks like the BRITS 'black tape' GAFFER tape FIX is in. Pic from recent QE test cycle. Prolly wiped it with an oily rag also.
:roll: :doh: Pic via e-mail so doan have no source. Youse could find it online I guess.... :shock: :drool:

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 15:22
by kippiis
Yeah, I've seen the pictures online.

Re: F-35 with damaged coating?

Unread postPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 01:10
by vilters
Paint and coatings will always deteriorate over time.

Remember the XB-70 that came back almost "naked" after a high speed flight.

First the structure, then some base - corrosion prevention coating, then some top layers, some RAM here and there, each expanding and contracting at different levels with pressure and temp changes.

Even your 65 mph car will require paint work sooner or later.