Marines connect F-35 jet to HIMARS

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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juretrn

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Unread post08 Oct 2018, 20:38

geforcerfx wrote:
knowan wrote:Tomahawk can't launch from land sites due to INF treaty.


I thought that was just the nuke tomahawks?

If they needed to reduce the range I'm sure that could be easily done with the tomahawk, it only flies as it has fuel to do so.

If they need mach 3 or 4 speed then yeah the tomahawk is a no go.

No, all long-range, land-based cruise missiles were banned.
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knowan

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Unread post09 Oct 2018, 08:41

juretrn wrote:
geforcerfx wrote:
knowan wrote:Tomahawk can't launch from land sites due to INF treaty.


I thought that was just the nuke tomahawks?

If they needed to reduce the range I'm sure that could be easily done with the tomahawk, it only flies as it has fuel to do so.

If they need mach 3 or 4 speed then yeah the tomahawk is a no go.

No, all long-range, land-based cruise missiles were banned.


Any land-launched missile with between 500 and 5500 km range was banned, cruise and ballistic, conventional and nuclear.

The Gryphon, Pershing Ia and Pershing II were all withdrawn as a result of the treaty.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 04:26

Having not kept up with all the weapon acronyms I'm hoping this post is not a repeat.
Raytheon has integrated the DeepStrike into M142 HIMARS and M270 MLRS
OR New Army weapon will deliver unparalleled precision, firepower
09 Oct 2018 Raytheon PR

"TUCSON, Ariz., Oct. 9, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) completed a significant milestone in the development of its long-range DeepStrike™ missile to meet the U.S. Army's Precision Strike Missile, or PrSM, requirement. The company has integrated its new launch pod missile container into the Army's M142 HIMARS and M270 MLRS launchers.

Raytheon’s DeepStrike® missile is the U.S. Army’s affordable solution that offers double the firepower, greater range and precision accuracy. The launch pod missile container integration took place at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, in July. During the integration, Raytheon technicians worked side-by-side with soldiers and Marines on operational launchers to ensure proper fit and functionality....

...Featuring an innovative, two-in-the-pod design and an advanced guidance system, Raytheon's new long-range precision strike missile will fly farther, faster and pack more punch than the current weapon, which is approaching the end of its service life.

As the next-generation surface-to-surface weapon for the Army, the DeepStrike missile will defeat fixed land targets 60-499 kilometers away, improve lethality and responsiveness compared to current systems, and restore the Army's capability to overmatch the threat."

Source: http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/2018-10-0 ... evelopment

Double the combat power with Raytheon’s DeepStrike® missile system https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-FQ2jz9xM

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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blindpilot

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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 05:14

knowan wrote: ...
Any land-launched missile with between 500 and 5500 km range was banned, cruise and ballistic, conventional and nuclear.

and
spazsinbad wrote:Having not kept up with all the weapon acronyms I'm hoping this post is not a repeat.
Raytheon has integrated the DeepStrike into M142 HIMARS and M270 MLRS...

"TUCSON, Ariz., Oct. 9, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) completed a significant milestone in the development of its long-range DeepStrike™ missile ... the U.S. Army’s affordable solution that offers double the firepower, greater range ...

As the next-generation surface-to-surface weapon for the Army, the DeepStrike missile will defeat fixed land targets 60-499 kilometers away, ..."



Replacement for ATACMS with an interesting "spec" for max range. Hmmm... 499 km ... less than 500 km banned ... right ....
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element1loop

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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 07:11

weasel1962 wrote:Who needs anti-ship missiles?


HIMARS on a ship is a temporary fix, unless they're putting them into dedicated compact naval launchers (with some dedicated reload storage nearby and a dedicated mechanism to reload them at sea. So where's the operational advantage, other than providing some ad-hoc temporary tactical capability? And in associated Joint land battle any bootstrapped launcher will not be staying on the ship for long. So the ship needs its own attack capabilities. Much more impressive VLO weapons like VLS LRASM or deck quad-pack JSM will still be required and not replaceable by HIMARS. As well as SM-6 type capabilities for rapid surface and ground strike from VLS.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 07:15

knowan wrote: ... (tbh, the USA should just bring back ground launched Tomahawks like the Gryphon), it is pretty clear the USA would happily give those weapons up again in the future if they can get Russia to do the same.


Tomahawk production ends this year by the look of things. 100 for 2018 with no more to come.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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knowan

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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 09:27

element1loop wrote:
knowan wrote: ... (tbh, the USA should just bring back ground launched Tomahawks like the Gryphon), it is pretty clear the USA would happily give those weapons up again in the future if they can get Russia to do the same.


Tomahawk production ends this year by the look of things. 100 for 2018 with no more to come.


I wonder if a surface launched JASSM-ER or the new -XR variant could be done easily.
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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 09:43

They will need to call it something else for starters.

Something like NGLAW.
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gc

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Unread post10 Oct 2018, 12:04

element1loop wrote:
knowan wrote: ... (tbh, the USA should just bring back ground launched Tomahawks like the Gryphon), it is pretty clear the USA would happily give those weapons up again in the future if they can get Russia to do the same.


Tomahawk production ends this year by the look of things. 100 for 2018 with no more to come.


The service life extension program is just beginning for the Tomahawks to give it a new datalink and terminal seeker with anti-ship and anti-radiation capabilities. Not sure how many missiles the USN has in its inventory now but i estimate it to be approximately 3000-4000. Thars why the Navy is not too warm to the idea of surface-launched JASSM although the JASSM is much more survivable.
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Unread post19 Oct 2018, 03:25

The misnamed 70km sniper will officially be the 150km sniper post 2021.

https://www.janes.com/article/83720/aus ... r-mid-2019

Lockheed Martin plans in mid-2019 to conduct the first engineering development flights of its extended-range Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (ER GMLRS), a company spokesperson told reporters on 10 October at the Association of the United States Army’s (AUSA's) annual conference.

ER GMLRS’ qualification flights are expected in 2020 and production could start in 2021, the spokesperson said.

The extended-range variant increased the motor size (with an increased diameter for more propellant volume), has a 15 m minimum range, 150 km max range, and a redesigned tail for manoeuvrability, the spokesperson said. The legacy GMLRS reaches out to 70 km.
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hythelday

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Unread post19 Oct 2018, 12:35

The extended-range variant increased the motor size (with an increased diameter for more propellant volume), has a 15 m minimum range, 150 km max range, and a redesigned tail for manoeuvrability, the spokesperson said. The legacy GMLRS reaches out to 70 km.


Thank god for that! :D
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Unread post20 Oct 2018, 21:09

knowan wrote:
.......

Any land-launched missile with between 500 and 5500 km range was banned, cruise and ballistic, conventional and nuclear.

The Gryphon, Pershing Ia and Pershing II were all withdrawn as a result of the treaty.


U.S. to Tell Russia It Is Leaving Landmark I.N.F. Treaty

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/us/p ... e=Homepage

The Trump administration is preparing to tell Russian leaders next week that it is planning to exit the landmark Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, in part to enable the United States to counter a Chinese arms buildup in the Pacific, according to American officials and foreign diplomats.

President Trump has been moving toward scrapping the three-decade-old treaty, which grew out of President Ronald Reagan’s historic meeting with Mikhail Gorbachev in 1986. While the treaty was seen as effective for years, Russia has been violating it at least since 2014 in an effort to menace other nations.

But the pact has also constrained the United States from deploying new weapons to respond to China’s efforts to cement a dominant position in the Western Pacific and to keep American naval forces at bay. Because China was not a signatory to the treaty, it has faced no limits on developing intermediate-range nuclear missiles, which can travel thousands of miles.

For the past four years, the United States has argued that Russia is in violation of the treaty because it has deployed prohibited tactical nuclear weapons to intimidate European nations and former Soviet states that have aligned with the West. But President Barack Obama chose not to leave the agreement because of objections from the Europeans — particularly Germany — and out of concern that it would rekindle an arms race.

Mr. Trump appears not to share such hesitation. His national security adviser, John R. Bolton, will warn the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, on a trip to Moscow early next week that the United States plans to leave the treaty, the American officials said.

Mr. Bolton declined to comment on his forthcoming trip. But a senior administration official issued a statement saying that “Russia continues to produce and field prohibited cruise missiles and has ignored calls for transparency.”

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has publicly brought the subject up several times in recent weeks, saying that Russia’s violations were “untenable” and signaling that the administration was reviewing its options. The preparations to leave the treaty were described by foreign diplomats who have been briefed on the matter and by American officials with knowledge of the plans.
In a lengthy nuclear strategy document published early this year, the administration detailed the Russian violations and concluded that the country’s “decision to violate the I.N.F. treaty and other commitments all clearly indicate that Russia has rebuffed repeated U.S. efforts to reduce the salience, role and number of nuclear weapons.”

The weapons ban — signed in Washington in December 1987 by both men — resulted in the destruction of 2,692 missiles. Washington demolished 846, and Moscow 1,846.

The American side destroyed missiles it had sent to Western Europe in response to the SS-20, including Pershing II ballistic missiles and ground-launched cruise missiles. The low-flying weapons hug the ground to avoid enemy radars and air defenses.

The Obama administration was the first to charge publicly that Moscow was violating the treaty. The offending weapon was identified as a land-based cruise missile, the SSC-8. Russia has consistently denied any violation.

The Pentagon has already been developing nuclear weapons to match, and counter, what the Chinese have deployed. But that effort would take years, so, in the interim, the United States is preparing to modify existing weapons, including its non-nuclear Tomahawk missiles, and is likely to deploy them first in Asia, according to officials who have been briefed on the issue. Those may be based in Japan, or perhaps in Guam, where the United States maintains a large base and would face little political opposition.

If the Trump administration leaves the treaty, it is likely to deploy a version of the Tomahawk cruise missile that is redesigned to be launched from land. Ships and submarines now carry Tomahawks armed with conventional warheads; experts say that eventually a nuclear warhead could be designed to fit the Tomahawk.
Last edited by marsavian on 20 Oct 2018, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
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sferrin

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Unread post20 Oct 2018, 21:22

marsavian wrote:
knowan wrote:
.......

Any land-launched missile with between 500 and 5500 km range was banned, cruise and ballistic, conventional and nuclear.

The Gryphon, Pershing Ia and Pershing II were all withdrawn as a result of the treaty.


U.S. to Tell Russia It Is Leaving Landmark I.N.F. Treaty

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/us/p ... e=Homepage

The Trump administration is preparing to tell Russian leaders next week that it is planning to exit the landmark Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, in part to enable the United States to counter a Chinese arms buildup in the Pacific, according to American officials and foreign diplomats.

President Trump has been moving toward scrapping the three-decade-old treaty, which grew out of President Ronald Reagan’s historic meeting with Mikhail Gorbachev in 1986. While the treaty was seen as effective for years, Russia has been violating it at least since 2014 in an effort to menace other nations.

But the pact has also constrained the United States from deploying new weapons to respond to China’s efforts to cement a dominant position in the Western Pacific and to keep American naval forces at bay. Because China was not a signatory to the treaty, it has faced no limits on developing intermediate-range nuclear missiles, which can travel thousands of miles.


Such as:

DF-15 Family
DF-15_M-9_CSS-6_8.jpg


DF-16 Family
DF-16s.png



DF-21 Family
DF-21.jpg



DF-26
DF-26.jpg


The DF-21 is Pershing II class with multiple types of terminally guided warheads, both conventional and nuclear. DF-26 is more capable than Pershing II.
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Oct 2018, 21:48

President Trump confirms

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... aty-russia

Donald Trump said on Saturday the US will “terminate” a nuclear arms treaty with Russia.

Speaking to reporters in Nevada after a campaign rally on Saturday, Trump said: “Russia has violated the agreement. They’ve been violating it for many years and I don’t know why President Obama didn’t negotiate or pull out.

“We’re not going to let them violate a nuclear agreement and do weapons and we’re not allowed to. We’re the ones that have stayed in the agreement and we’ve honoured the agreement but Russia has not unfortunately honoured the agreement so we’re going to terminate the agreement, we’re going to pull out.”

Such a move would be a sharp break from US arms control policy. Former US officials told the Guardian this week Bolton was blocking talks on extending another treaty with Russia, New Start, which was signed in 2010 and is due to expire in 2021.

Asked on Saturday to clarify, the president said the US will “have to develop those weapons”. He also drew in China.

“Unless Russia comes to us and China comes to us and they all come to us and they say, ‘Let’s all of us get smart and let’s none of us develop those weapons,’” he said, “but if Russia’s doing it and if China’s doing it and we’re adhering to the agreement, that’s unacceptable. So we have a tremendous amount of money to play with with our military.”

He added: “Russia has not adhered to the agreement, so we are going to terminate the agreement and we are going to develop the weapons. If we get smart and if others get smart, and say ‘Let’s not develop these horrible nuclear weapons,’ I would be extremely happy with that.

“But as long as somebody’s violating that agreement then we’re not going to be the only ones to adhere to it.”
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Unread post20 Oct 2018, 22:00

Pershing 3, here I come :wink:
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