F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 08:13
by Corsair1963
Does anybody have a source with a picture of a F-35A or C with six GBU-31's or another type 2,000 lbs class weapon??? (i.e. two internally and four externally)

:poke:


Any help would be much appreciated..... 8)

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 09:27
by bojack_horseman
I think what you are referring to is a screen capture from a presentation at a symposium

Dragon029's Youtube feed has the image.... shown at 1 min into the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSIzWFxznvM

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 09:43
by spazsinbad
This is a good start point: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=53438&p=380703&hilit=discussion#p380703

And rather than DRAGGOON pic which has not been corrected for width from squashed screenshot - try mine.

download/file.php?id=25878

Image

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 09:55
by Corsair1963
Thanks....what I was really looking for was a picture of an F-35A/C. Which, was carrying six GBU-31's. Either with a bays open so we could confirm the aircraft was in fact carrying six GBU-31's or a picture from a credible source stating the aircraft was. While, carrying four externally. Yet, there maybe no such picture????

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 10:17
by spazsinbad
Perhaps the thread about the F-35C carrier test ops with different lopsided ordnance may help? However at this moment I do not recall. You can look through LM FlickR F-35A/C photos also. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 318767009/

Prolly the MAX allowed weight for an arrested landing ashore - you can work out what might be there (internal also):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 318767009/

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1441/248 ... f5_o_d.jpg

Image

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 10:31
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:Perhaps the thread about the F-35C carrier test ops with different lopsided ordnance may help? However at this moment I do not recall. You can look through LM FlickR F-35A/C photos also.



Thanks the latter is a good idea.....(I'll try it)

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 12:19
by spazsinbad
CODE ONE did strange juggling fings so this photo originally was with the page mentioned below but now it is here:

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=136

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_5170.jpg

Image

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_5170.jpg
"13 January 2014: RAF Sdn. Ldr. Andy Edgell flew F-35C CF-1 for the first test mission of the F-35C with ten weapons and one gun pod. The flight, which originated from NAS Patuxent River, Maryland, was used to evaluate the handling qualities of the F-35C with a full weapon load. The load consisted of four 500-pound GBU-12 Paveway II bombs and two AIM-9X Sidewinder air-to-air missiles mounted under the wings and two GBU-32s and two AIM-120 AMRAAMs mounted in the internal weapon bays. A 25mm gun pod was mounted on the external centerline station as well. Photo by Andy Wolfe" http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article. ... f7045660=1

OR
"19 June 2014: Lockheed Martin test pilot Dan Levin was flying a stores performance test in F-35C CF-1 from NAS Patuxent River, Maryland, when the aircraft reached the 500-hour milestone on Flight 294. Photo by Michael D. Jackson" http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_1095.jpg


Image
"10 January 2014: Lt. Col. Brent Reinhardt was at the controls of F-35A AF-1 Flight 350 for the first test mission flown with ten weapons. The flight, which originated from Edwards AFB, California, was used to evaluate the handling qualities of the F-35A. The weapon load consisted of six 500-pound GBU-12 Paveway II bombs (two mounted in the internal weapon bays and four mounted under the wings), two AIM-120 AMRAAMs mounted in the internal weapon bays, and two AIM-9X Sidewinder air-to-air missiles mounted under the wings. [ramadamadingdong weapon bay doors open] http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/m ... 7_2218.jpg

Image

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 12:51
by spazsinbad
https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/2818807 [GOTTA BE LOGGED IN TO SEE THE FULL PIC - zoom below]

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2018, 23:07
by wrightwing
Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody have a source with a picture of a F-35A or C with six GBU-31's or another type 2,000 lbs class weapon??? (i.e. two internally and four externally)

:poke:


Any help would be much appreciated..... 8)

Out of curiosity, do you doubt the official pics. There aren't going to be any pics with the weapons bay doors open, and external weapons.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 16:14
by spazsinbad
:oops: Too 'embarrassment' (look up effie comedian australia): COVER of NAN (Naval Aviation News Spring 2018) :doh:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainm ... 9d36b05519
"CF-2, an F-35C Lightning II, is piloted by Lockheed Martin test pilot Billie Flynn April 4 during an external GBU-31 and AIM-9x buffet and flutter test flight from NAS Patuxent River, Md. (Lockheed Martin photo by Dane Wiedmann)" http://navalaviationnews.navylive.dodli ... ng2018.pdf (9.2Mb)

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 03:23
by spazsinbad
The PDF cover was always going to be low quality but 'I' thought it could be improved - but no. So now ARMED with details & searchin' old faithful there are many examples of this photo above: [FOO wuz here] PHOTO taken in 2018 FLT 592

https://www.strategypage.com/military_p ... 12156.aspx #foo [A .PNG file is a HIGH QUALITY FILE]

Then there is the much moar betta OVER THE SEA photo: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 7-0040.JPG

DVIDS has the above two plus: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/4282831

Then FlickR has the photos (don't know how I missed them but LATE NIGHT / Early morning....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnavy/40491967995/

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/876/4049 ... ce_o_d.jpg (over sea example 3000x2400 same as posted)

Had forgotten about NAVY.MIL (I think they were offline for a bit - and usual USN slow to post):

http://www.navy.mil/gallery_search_resu ... page=1&r=4

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 14:40
by mixelflick
Great graphic illustration of the F-35's capabilities. How many times have you seen ANY strike fighter flying with SIX 2,000lb JDAM's, two sidewinders and two AMRAAM's? I don't think even the F-15E can pull that off??

And to think, a single engine bird is doing it too...

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 15:32
by sprstdlyscottsmn
The Mudhen it's the only other plane that can, assuming it has a JDAM bus on the wing pylon.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 23:48
by elvis1
Corsair1963 wrote:Thanks....what I was really looking for was a picture of an F-35A/C. Which, was carrying six GBU-31's. Either with a bays open so we could confirm the aircraft was in fact carrying six GBU-31's or a picture from a credible source stating the aircraft was. While, carrying four externally. Yet, there maybe no such picture????


mixelflick wrote:Great graphic illustration of the F-35's capabilities. How many times have you seen ANY strike fighter flying with SIX 2,000lb JDAM's, two sidewinders and two AMRAAM's? I don't think even the F-15E can pull that off??


I think I am missing something (or the actual math is not as straight forward as things would look). I have been lurking this site for a few months (and don't know the ins and outs like y'all do). . . . but if the F-35 is to carry 22,000 lb of ordinance, doesn't this necessitate carrying 4 x 2,000 lb + 2 x 5,000 lb weapons, two sidewinders, two AMRAAM's (and something on the center point). Adding up the max weight that each mounting station can carry yields about 22,000 lb.

Does the need to have credible sources stating carriage (or to see weapons bays open) mean that the 22,000 pounds stated for Beast Mode is viewed as not credible. Why is 6 x 2,000 lb JDAM's, two sidewinders and two AMRAAM's so impressive if 22,000 pounds is possible. I also see other references to an 18,000 lb ordinance limit as well as the 22,000 lb ordinance limit . . . .and am confused.

Not trying to challenge any statements--I am just pretty sure I am missing something.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 00:23
by SpudmanWP
Its total load carry capability includes the now un-scheduled external fuel tank with weighs 4.5k to 5k lbs on the inner pylon.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 01:35
by spazsinbad

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 03:11
by elvis1
I had actually done the search. I have been reading here long enough to know that Spaz would call me on it if I didn't :wink: . I also thought that the explanation from USNVO is the best that I had found.

I am guessing the difference between the 22,000 figure and the 18,000 figure is the difference between the CV/CTOL and the STOVL. The 1,000 lb difference on points 2, 4, 8 and 10 is the difference between 22,000 and 18,000. It would really be cool to see 5,000 lb GBU-28's instead of the fuel tanks--that would be a picture.

Will it actually be able to take off with this much weight? Taking the Max take-off weight (70k) minus the max fuel wt (18.5k) minus the empty weight (29k), I still come up with just over 22,000 lb for the "A". The "B" and "C" would have to sacrifice fuel to carry 18,000 and 22,000 lb--wondering if they can make up for this by just re-fueling right after take-off?? Can the the "C" "fill up" to over 70,000 lbs after take off? Either way, one could still take off with reduced fuel load and get a cool picture I am guessing.

Some of my confusion is around the desire to document much smaller loads than these with pictures / credible sources. . . . or being impressed with something that is much less impressive than what I believe will show up eventually on this . . . "beast".

I was really concerned about the investment in the F-35 before reading on this site--now I think it is the coolest thing ever.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 04:25
by spazsinbad
Thanks for searching. Having been a pilot flying an aircraft of yore with a Maximum Take Off weight of 24,500 lbs I can sincerely state that ONLY ONCE did I personally approach that figure [you will have read my TA4G tanker story I guess]. Sure I was not in any war where this kind of WEAPON max load may have been carried in suitable circumstances ashore and even more suitable circumstances off our one and only steam catapult. BTW in nil wind on a tropical day (South China Sea) the A4G could be catapulted with longitudinal stress up to 9G. To my knowledge that was never asked of anyone but may have been tested by CHLOE (you can search on that). In my long winded way I'm suggesting that getting hung up on any MAXIMUM figure can be misleading. Over the life of the F-35 variants loads will vary while you and I will never know much more than that unless told with video/photo what the situation may be in the internal carriage. BELIEVE IT OR NOT. Aircraft will be kitted out with weapons required for the mission or alternate if there is a change mid-air. FUEL can always be guzzled from appropriate tankers when available. The numbers we see are the maximum allowed for the weapon stations, how weapon weight load adds up on these is a rubics cube of fantasmagorical complexity. I want the NATOPS manual. :mrgreen:

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 10 Jun 2018, 22:31
by Corsair1963
wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody have a source with a picture of a F-35A or C with six GBU-31's or another type 2,000 lbs class weapon??? (i.e. two internally and four externally)

:poke:


Any help would be much appreciated..... 8)

Out of curiosity, do you doubt the official pics. There aren't going to be any pics with the weapons bay doors open, and external weapons.


No, I don't doubt it for a second. As six JDAM's (2,000 lbs) plus the AMRAAMs and Sidewinders. Would be well within the Gross Weight even with a full internal fuel load. Yet, have come across some people that still doubt the F-35A/C could carry such a load????

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 20:58
by wrightwing
Corsair1963 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody have a source with a picture of a F-35A or C with six GBU-31's or another type 2,000 lbs class weapon??? (i.e. two internally and four externally)

:poke:


Any help would be much appreciated..... 8)

Out of curiosity, do you doubt the official pics. There aren't going to be any pics with the weapons bay doors open, and external weapons.


No, I don't doubt it for a second. As six JDAM's (2,000 lbs) plus the AMRAAMs and Sidewinders. Would be well within the Gross Weight even with a full internal fuel load. Yet, have come across some people that still doubt the F-35A/C could carry such a load????


It can carry an even bigger load. It could carry 2 GBU-31, 2 GBU-28, 2 AMRAAM, 2 AIM-9X, and if using TER ejectors 6 750lb bombs, plus a gun pod.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 11 Jun 2018, 22:33
by Corsair1963
Honestly, the F-35's Payload vs Range compared to 4th Generation Types is truly impressive..... 8)

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2018, 03:06
by weasel1962
elvis1 wrote:Will it actually be able to take off with this much weight? Taking the Max take-off weight (70k) minus the max fuel wt (18.5k) minus the empty weight (29k), I still come up with just over 22,000 lb for the "A". The "B" and "C" would have to sacrifice fuel to carry 18,000 and 22,000 lb--wondering if they can make up for this by just re-fueling right after take-off?? Can the the "C" "fill up" to over 70,000 lbs after take off? Either way, one could still take off with reduced fuel load and get a cool picture I am guessing.


The max take off weight is roughly 1.5-1.7x afterburner thrust. 70+k is what current F-35A/Cs can achieve.

The max take off weight is lower for the B in STO mode. If conventional take off, the F-35 should be able to max its 66k payload.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2018, 14:59
by spazsinbad
AY CARAMBA! This one has been in me face for a donkey age: https://www.f35.com/in-depth/detail/pre ... -at-a-time
"An F-35A flies the first external GBU-31, 2,000 pound Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) in a loads/flutter test flight at Edwards AFB, California." https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... __main.jpg (25Kb Low quality)

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 02:40
by Corsair1963

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 02:58
by spazsinbad
Wow - Good Find - WE HAVE A WINNA - COME ON DOWN! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DalwTOXWsAASVnl.jpg

https://twitter.com/billieflynn/status/ ... 3905393664
Q: "Is the F-35C above also carrying two GBU-31's (2,000 lbs) and two AIM-120 (AMRAAMs) internally???

A: Yep. Loaded for Bear! [LM TEST PILOT BILLIE FLYNN]

Q: Is it true the F-35A/C could still exceed Mach 1 with 6-GBU-31's???" [27 Jun 2018] [stay tooooned]

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 03:09
by wrightwing
The >M1.1 with 6 GBU-31, 2 AIM-120, 2 AIM-9, has already been answered. That was the F-35C, too. The A model will be faster.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 03:49
by spazsinbad
Yeah but - no but - Yeah BuTT - I want Billie The Flynn to answer - then that clears up another known known unknown.

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 04:10
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:Yeah but - no but - Yeah BuTT - I want Billie The Flynn to answer - then that clears up another known known unknown.




EXACTLY 8)

Re: F-35A/C with 6 GBU-31's

Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 04:50
by Corsair1963
lrrpf52 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, the F-35's Payload vs Range compared to 4th Generation Types is truly impressive..... 8)

The F-35's...

..RCS is smaller than an F-117A's and similar or smaller than an F-22A's.

..Internal fuel compared to 4th Gen Internal + External Fuel is truly impressive, especially since it has lower drag index.

..Energy-Maneuverability is truly impressive compared to 4th Gen carrying lesser loads even.

..Integrated avionics suite and central processing fusion smokes 4th Gen +, even the latest, most advanced F-16V and Blk III Super Hornets.

..Penetration capability and survivability in the most modern Integrated Air Defense Systems smokes 4th Gen types by a wide margin.

..Ability to perform AWACS, reconnaissance, Electronic Warfare, targeting and terminal guidance for over the horizon surface platforms, to include US Navy SM-6 is unparalleled with any 4th Gen type.

..F135 engine is a modern marvel that matches F100 and F110 Improved Performance Engines' max thrust in Afterburner, only the F135 does that in mil power, then can crank it up to 43,000lb of thrust in reheat.

..Digital Flight Control System is integrated with the FADEC for the engine, as well as other synthetic, programmable flight systems management, and its control surface actuators are independent of any central hydraulic system.

Pick any parameter or metric from any 4th Gen fighter or multirole combat aircraft, and the F-35 outclasses it in all of its strengths, while adding a whole slew of additional capabilities that are normally only present on multiple, single-mission aircraft.



By the numbers the F-35 crushes all comers..........truly impressive!