F-35 Women are Coming 2018

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post02 Feb 2018, 16:59

Don't see why you need to mock Health & Safety. You do not know what else they did with the seat up high. I have seen too many - years later - results of ignorance or willful neglect of health & safety. Just so people could look cool. NOPE.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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neptune

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Unread post02 Feb 2018, 19:33

SpudmanWP wrote:Hardhats... Really? :doh:


....I am surprised they aren't required to wear the "eye protection" as part of a general adherence to OSHA 1910.132 for their contractors. Not unlike the eyewear (sunglasses) most 11Bs wear in the field! Basic PPE; hardhat, steel toes, eye protection, long sleeves.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post02 Feb 2018, 21:52

Probably anyway the photos - or that photo in particular - has been posed for the camera - whatever.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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southernphantom

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Unread post02 Feb 2018, 21:57

SpudmanWP wrote:Hardhats... Really?

:doh:


I've had plenty of near misses that would have knocked me out or required stitches if I hadn't been wearing a hard hat. Any time you're working with suspended loads or low overhead clearance, they're good to have.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post02 Feb 2018, 22:08

OSHA has caused more harm than good.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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XanderCrews

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Unread post02 Feb 2018, 22:54

If it was navy/marines it would just be cranials
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Gums

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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 01:00

Salute!

I am glad USAF still has a few standards.

Over 50 percent of female pilots in the Air Force weigh below 136 pounds.


I would hope the percentage is higher, 'cause snuggling up to a 160 pounder ain't as nice as a 115 or 120 pounder.

Being only 135 since I was 17 years old until 70, I always went for the "lighter' ones. 'course, if the weight is a lotta protein as in muscles, it might make a difference, but then where is all the soft stuff we neanderthals like? Huh?
+++++++

All seriousness aside, the seat and chute combination is a biggie.

Does the seat kick you out? Does the chute begin to deploy while you are still riding the sucker? Does the chute deployment have a speed sensor as we had in the ACES 2?

Gums sends...
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 01:26

I'm not sure what your point is by the questions 'Gums'. The F-35 Martin-Baker seat was selected in 2000. I'll guess improvements have been made over time (there are threads about this). YES the MB seat is different. Gen.Pleus says it is the safest ejection seat he has flown in. I'll guess he has not flown many jets, especially old ones. Technology advances.

A detailed ejection sequence is seen in the PDF attached (I'll make a .GIF graphic for to encourage the others to view it). Of course the original URL does not work however there is a less detailed sequence here:
"US16E Ejection Seat for F-35 [CLICK 'FUNCTION' TAB at URL]
Seat firing handle pulled, centrale initiates Rigid Hermetic [I don't know what this means]
Transmission Chain (RHTC)
Command firing initiated
Harness power retraction unit retracts shoulder straps
Canopy fractured by canopy pyrotechnic cutting system
Primary cartridge fires, bottom latches engage, top latches disengage seat rises up rails
Aircraft services disconnected
Emergency oxygen supplied to aircrew
Legs and arms restrained
IFF tripped
Secondary cartridges fire as seat rises
Multi-purpose initiators fire
Mechanical Mode Selector (MMS), Barostatic Time-Release Unit (BTRU) and Drogue Deployment Unit Timer (DDUT) sears tripped
Underseat and lateral rocket motors fire
Leg restraint lines become taut and rivets shear, freeing lines from floor brackets
Aerodynamic surfaces deploy
Drogue deployment unit fires after delay
Time delays initiated for MMS and BTRU
Manual Override (MOR) lock disengaged

Low speed, low altitude mode
MMS senses mode, fires primary circuit
Drogue canister deployed, pulls bridle clear
Upper and lower bridle locks released

Intermediate mode
MMS inhibited above 7500ft (2286m)
Drogue stabilises and decelerates seat

High speed, low altitude mode
MMS inhibited above 260 KEAS or 4 G
Drogue stabilises and decelerates seat
BTRU runs out firing primary circuit

High altitude mode
Drogue stabilises and decelerates seat
Emergency oxygen supply continued
Drogue releases at barostate altitude of 16400ft (5000m)
Headbox deployment initiated
Upper harness locks release
Man portion PEC release
Arm and leg restraint lines cut
Lower harness locks release after delay
Parachute inflates
Auxiliary drogue pulls headbox clear
Personal locator beacon activated
Personal Survival Pack (PSP) retained
Aircrew descends on parachute
PSP automatically lowered after delay
Liferaft automatically inflates"

Source: http://martin-baker.com/products/mk16-e ... seat-f-35/
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MK16 US16E EJECTION SEAT for F-35 Function Sequence DETAILED.pdf
(491.2 KiB) Downloaded 124 times
MK16 US16E EJECTION SEAT for F-35 Function Sequence DETAILED.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 02:16

At the same SOURCE URL above - click on the SPECIFICATIONS tab for this: PDF (0.5Mb) is here:

http://martin-baker.com/wp-content/uplo ... 6_f-35.pdf
US16E Ejection Seat for F-35 [looks like this is a repeat somewhat of the RAFALE seat TEXT?]
⦁ Operating Ceiling: 65,000ft (19,812m)
⦁ Minimum height/Speed: Zero/zero in near level attitude
⦁ Crew boarding mass range: 63.5 to 106.0 kg
⦁ Crew size range: French Air Force specific crew size range, 3 – 98 percentile estimated French pilot range year 2015
⦁ Maximum Speed for ejection: 625 KEAS
⦁ Parachute type: GQ Type 5000
⦁ Parachute deployment: Cartridge initiated
⦁ Drogue parachute: Yes
⦁ Drogue deployment: Cartridge initiated
⦁ Aerosurface deployment system: Yes, gas operated
⦁ Harness type: Combined
⦁ Ejection seat operation type: Ejection guns and underseat rocket motor, Lateral thrust rocket motor (twin seat only)?
⦁ Ejection gun: Twin
⦁ Ejection initiation: Handle on seat bucket initiates gas operated seat firing systemAutomatic
⦁ Automatic back-up unit: No, manual override available
⦁ Manual sequencer: Mechanical mode selector, used in combination with barostatic time-release unit
⦁ Barostatic time-release unit: Yes + g-restrictor, cartridge initiated
⦁ Timers: Drogue deployment unit timer
⦁ Seat adjustment: Up/down actuator operated 28 Vdc
⦁ Arm restraints: Yes
⦁ Leg restraints: Passive leg restraint system
⦁ Oxygen supply: Connection to On Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS), Emergency oxygen cylinder
⦁ NBC equipment: Nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) ventilator
⦁ Personal survival pack (PSP): Yes + automatic deployment and liferaft inflation
⦁ Aircrew services: Aircrew services package, interface for breathing gas, NBC ventilation supply, mic/tel and helmet-mounted display system interface
⦁ Command ejection: Yes
⦁ Canopy jettison: No
⦁ Canopy fracturing system: Yes, Canopy pyrotechnic cutting system
⦁ Interseat Sequencing System (ISS): Yes, via mode selector"

Source: http://martin-baker.com/products/mk16-e ... seat-f-35/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Gums

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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 02:40

Salute!

My question had to do with lack of a graphic that illustrates the sequence of events. The text doesn't clear up things for me.

I have flown on more types of seats than mnost here, if not all. Some seats kept you pulled in until the chute sequence, and others kicked you out and the chute did its thing.

Seems to me that in the hover that the ejection could cause problems, although the "q" is low and if not for a cart fired canopy you could be in trouble. The forces on a hover ejection sequence don't seem the long pole in the tent.

So there's more to the problem than I can figure out. And I don't buy the "heavy helmet" theory. We have had too many low ejections with the Viper and Hawg seat that done good without folks breaking their necks. The T-bird ejection at Mntn Goat was captured on many videos. The guy walked outta the flames and waved.

For now, I am bowing to the folks that claim the chute opening sequence was a problem, but I still question the geometry, as I can't imagine a pilot leaning forward to tie a shoelace when the canopy pops.

Gums sends...
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"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 03:53

'Gums' I think your forgetting this F-35 MB seat caters for a weight range not allowed in aircraft before the F-35. One may puzzle things out however I would rely that it is possible to AUTO eject from the F-35B whether you (pilot) like it or not.

In 2000 MB won the contest; recently the other contender claimed to have a better seat. Bad Luck. JPO goes with MB still.

The MB seat has been tested with the lighter HMDS and the other two fixes so that is that. Only query now is 'off nominal'.

1st is the Slowest SLOmo Video of MB F-35 seat ejection tests I have - there are two others that are slightly faster slomo.





RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 04:19

2 page full article PDF attached below.
WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS
Mark Ayton

"...The F-35 requirement for crewmember accommodation has been expanded to include the widest nude population mass range (103 to 245lb/47 to 111kg) and the multivariate accommodation range (cases 1 through 8], as defined by the F-35 sub-set of the Civilian American and European Surface Anthropometry Resource (CAESAR) database. This requirement formally includes the female gender for the very first time.

Terrain clearance is defined as the height above ground that the ejectee first attains the safe descent rate of 24 feet per second (7.3 metres per second) while suspended under the parachute. The descent rate must be achieved across the wide accommodation range. These requirements are based on the ‘best-of-legacy’ approach in which all ejection seat terrain clearance charts have been amalgamated and distilled from the US Seat inventory (Stencel SIIIS), MBA Navy Aircrew Common Ejection Seat (NACES) and Advanced Concept Ejection Seat (Douglas ACES II) into a common set of terrain clearance tables.

F-35 is the first programme to introduce neck injury criteria (NIC) because it combines three criteria: accommodation range, gender and the need for the pilot to wear a helmet-mounted display (HMD). The US16E seat is the only ejection seat that meets the NIC across the speed and accommodation ranges, including small females....

...The STOVL aircraft propulsion configuration results in unique failure mode conditions, which the pilot is not able to react to quickly enough to eject manually. This resulted in the US16E seat interfacing with Lockheed Martin’s auto-eject system which caters for low-altitude, low-speed and adverse pitch attitude escape conditions...."
Attachments
EjectionSeatMB F-35LightningII 2012 LOTS of COMPONENT Descriptions FORUM.pdf
(386.41 KiB) Downloaded 107 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 04:36

requirement for crewmember accommodation has been expanded to include the widest nude population mass


Do they actually weigh them nude? .....sounds kinky.....
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 04:48

:drool: :doh: YEP and they ask you to turn your head to the left & COUGH! :devil: :shock: BEN DOVER said he? 8)
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post03 Feb 2018, 06:23

Attachments
MBejectionSeatPagesX2prnAGAIN.pdf
(646.96 KiB) Downloaded 99 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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