slow landing vs normal landing

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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aw2007

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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 12:58

Green Knights performing slow landing when arriving at Iwakuni last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i0sJMceClQ

Are there any real advantages in doing slow landing vs normal landing or was it just a trick to impress the press ?
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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 13:29

"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 16:07

First aw, why would a slow landing or an RVL constitute something other than 'normal' for an F-35B? Tell us.

Second, why would such a thing be a 'trick for the press' and what exactly would they expect to achieve by performing said 'trick?'

Third, the linked article got 'SRVL' wrong; it is not 'slow RVL', it is a 'shipboard RVL.' All RVLs are fundamentally slower than conventional landings. The 'S' merely differentiates that which occurs aboard ship.
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aw2007

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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 18:06

quicksilver wrote:First aw, why would a slow landing or an RVL constitute something other than 'normal' for an F-35B? Tell us.

Second, why would such a thing be a 'trick for the press' and what exactly would they expect to achieve by performing said 'trick?'

Third, the linked article got 'SRVL' wrong; it is not 'slow RVL', it is a 'shipboard RVL.' All RVLs are fundamentally slower than conventional landings. The 'S' merely differentiates that which occurs aboard ship.


Slow landing vs conventional landing ?
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blindpilot

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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 21:03

aw2007 wrote:
quicksilver wrote:First aw, why would a slow landing or an RVL constitute something other than 'normal' for an F-35B? Tell us.

Second, why would such a thing be a 'trick for the press' and what exactly would they expect to achieve by performing said 'trick?'

Third, the linked article got 'SRVL' wrong; it is not 'slow RVL', it is a 'shipboard RVL.' All RVLs are fundamentally slower than conventional landings. The 'S' merely differentiates that which occurs aboard ship.


Slow landing vs conventional landing ?


No. Rolling Vertical (RVL) vs conventional. S is "shipboard" as Quick told you.

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 21:06

RVL is good for Austere Basing where you may be limited to a short, straight section of road.
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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 21:32

Interesting use of F-35B landing terminology: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304&p=302945&hilit=creepy#p302945
&
'creepy' mentioned agin: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304&p=232531&hilit=creepy#p232531
2015 STRIKE TEST NEWS
2015 Maj M. Andrew “Tac” Tacquard VX-23

"...F-35 Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL) Mode...
...Flying qualities during asymmetric testing were nearly identical to symmetric testing from the pilot’s perspective. The team performed Rolling Vertical Landings (RVL), Creeping Vertical Landings (CVL), Vertical Landings (VL), Slow Landings (SL), and Short Take Offs (STO) tests with nominal winds at Patuxent River. They continued landing and takeoff testing during a detachment to Edwards AFB, Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale, California, and at NAWS China Lake. Testers focused on expanding the crosswind envelope with crosswinds of up to 25 knots. We also performed the first high altitude CVL and VL during the detachment...."

Source: http://issuu.com/nawcad_pao/docs/striketest2015_single (PDF 3.6Mb)
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aw2007

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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 22:08

SpudmanWP wrote:RVL is good for Austere Basing where you may be limited to a short, straight section of road.


The runways at Iwakuni are certainly not 'austere'. So why didn't they choose to do conventional landing ?
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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 22:13

Practice for when they need to use the feature.
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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 22:29

8) :mrgreen: :devil: Nope. They were showing off on arrival - it was a SLOW news day. :doh: :drool: :roll:
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Dragon029

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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 22:31

There's various reasons it could have been done:
1. To please the crowd and their hosts.
2. To reduce brake and tire wear (in the last DOT&E report, one of the components affecting aircraft availability across all 3 variants were the main landing gear tires).
3. For ease and safety - the pilots likely just finished an ~8 hour flight, so being able to land at <1/2 the airspeed would make the pilots' life easier (particularly if reason #1 mentioned above is in their mind). You can hit your desired point of the runway you want more easily, you can steer via the nosewheel pretty much immediately to help keep in the middle of the runway, you don't have to worry about flaring at the right time, etc.
Last edited by Dragon029 on 14 Jan 2018, 23:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post14 Jan 2018, 23:01

Agree mostly. Demonstrating some of the unique landing abilities of the F-35B were appropriate not only for any press but for the waiting personnel of MCAS Iwakuni who likely had not seen the F-35B in action (squadron members excluded). So big deal - flaunt it - if you got it.

Reminds me of (stop me if you have read this elsewhere earlier) the day I flew circuits at NAS Nowra at Optimum Angle of Attack all the way. 'All the way' had not been seen there before. The tower complained so my SP (Senior Pilot = XO) summoned me to his office to tell me NOT to do these circuits again because it was scaring the horses. :mrgreen: I'm glad I stayed 'dirty' during these 'full power during climb back to circuit height whilst turning downwind at a very high bank angle' circuits because pulling the gear and flaps up at the same time and staying at Opt AoA would have been a real handful. Onlookers told me it was spectacular but I never saw anyone else attempt these 'dirty' Optimum AoA circuits.

And YES I had to turn base immediately when downwind (1k feet AGL) because the turn to downwind was GUT wrenching.
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Unread post15 Jan 2018, 00:42

Salute!

I am not sure if there are modified control laws for the "slow landing" procedure. But I definitely saw one last spring here at Eglin.

The Bee had done two previous approaches with all the doors open, but I could not tell how much the nozzle was tilted. On the second approach he stopped halfway down the rwy, hovered and then up for a closed pattern and full stop. The full stop was definitely a slow and short landing. Looked to be less than a thousand foot rollout.

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Unread post15 Jan 2018, 00:47

IF those STOVL doors are open the F-35B is in MODE 4 (it can be in other modes with gear up etc but not in usual ops- only for test ops/test pilots). As explained in a few places the F-35B in STOVL mode can land at maximum tyre speed (theoretical only) and going backwards (up to 30 KIAS - useful when landing VL onboard with a wind in OTHER direction).
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Unread post15 Jan 2018, 01:03

The point I make is that there is nothing unusual about doing an RVL upon arrival. Mode 4 ops are routine in F-35B squadrons — not an airshow ‘trick.’ So, why not do an easier landing and save some wear on the tires and brakes in the process (B also has smaller brakes and if they were landing heavy and conventional, that could heat em up a bit).

WRT landing types, in addition to CLs, RVLs, CVLs, VLs and SRVLs, there are also ‘slow landings’ or SLs. SLs are Mode 4 landings with touchdown speeds above the RVL range (60ish) but less than that of CLs (145-50ish)
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