F-35A Participates in Checkered Flag 18-1 [as Aggressor]

[spazsinbad]

F-35A Participates in Checkered Flag 18-1
01 Dec 2017 Jeff Babione F-35 GM Weekly Update

"The 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin AFB, Florida, recently provided support for exercise Checkered Flag 18-1, a large scale air-to-air exercise that emphasizes the execution and production of tactics between fourth and fifth generation aircraft.

“Our role was that of one of the fifth-generation players in the exercise,” said Maj. Matthew Tucker, 58th Fighter Squadron F-35 pilot. “Most of what we are focusing on is the integration aspect; how we take fifth-gen aircraft and plug them into a four ship of fourth-gen aircraft, then understanding how we can operate together, communicate with one another and who brings what to the fight.”

Additionally, it is one of the few exercises where the F-35A and F-22 participate as aggressors, allowing for realistic
training against similar adversaries.

“We always want to train to the highest level we are able to, but we can’t participate as aggressors in all of the exercises
this aircraft is a part of,” Tucker said. “During this specific exercise we are using fifth-gen on both sides. It allows us to
exercise the tactics we have laid out while creating a standard across the force.”

The wing launched 44 sorties for the exercise in conjunction with the on-going F-35 pilot training mission at Eglin AFB.
Great work by the team on continuing to advance the capabilities of the F-35A in a wide variety of operational scenarios."

Source: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... 2_1_17.pdf (220Kb)

[Corsair1963]

F-35A Participates in Checkered Flag 18-1
01 Dec 2017 Jeff Babione F-35 GM Weekly Update

"The 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin AFB, Florida, recently provided support for exercise Checkered Flag 18-1, a large scale air-to-air exercise that emphasizes the execution and production of tactics between fourth and fifth generation aircraft.

“Our role was that of one of the fifth-generation players in the exercise,” said Maj. Matthew Tucker, 58th Fighter Squadron F-35 pilot. “Most of what we are focusing on is the integration aspect; how we take fifth-gen aircraft and plug them into a four ship of fourth-gen aircraft, then understanding how we can operate together, communicate with one another and who brings what to the fight.”

Additionally, it is one of the few exercises where the F-35A and F-22 participate as aggressors, allowing for realistic
training against similar adversaries.

“We always want to train to the highest level we are able to, but we can’t participate as aggressors in all of the exercises
this aircraft is a part of,” Tucker said. “During this specific exercise we are using fifth-gen on both sides. It allows us to
exercise the tactics we have laid out while creating a standard across the force.”

The wing launched 44 sorties for the exercise in conjunction with the on-going F-35 pilot training mission at Eglin AFB.
Great work by the team on continuing to advance the capabilities of the F-35A in a wide variety of operational scenarios."

Source: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... 2_1_17.pdf (220Kb)

Clearly, a work in progress.....

[spazsinbad]

More flags than youse can wave on any given day....

Orange Flag Evaluates Teamwork, Interoperability Across Services
28 Nov 2017 412th Operations Group, Edwards Air Force Base

"It takes a team to get things done. Last month, team Edwards, along with Navy and Marine teammates, came together for a coordinated, multi-service flight test event known as Orange Flag. Twenty-eight aircraft gathered in the skies above the Mojave Desert during the three-hour test event named after the symbolic color of flight test—orange. The test aircraft, outfitted with data-gathering gear, launched from Edwards Air Force Base, Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake, Naval Air Station Point Mugu, and Nellis AFB, Nevada.

According to Lt. Col. Richard Turner, F-35 pilot and 412 Operations Group deputy commander, Orange Flag tests the interoperability of the services’ fighters, bombers, and Command-and-Control aircraft. Cooperation between Developmental Test and Operational Test, or combined DT-OT, have proven successful in the past for both the Air Force and Navy but were primarily focused on testing a single aircraft type such as the F-18 or F-22.

Orange Flag represents a collaborative effort not only between DT and OT, but across the Air Force, Navy, and Marines.

“The ‘developmental’ objectives were developed by the 412th Test Wing here, the 96th Test Wing at Eglin AFB, Florida, and the Navy’s VX-31 Test Squadron at NAWS China Lake. The ‘operational’ objectives came from the 53rd Test Wing at Nellis, and the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Operational Test Team at Edwards,” said Turner.

Personnel tested eight different types of aircraft: F-35As and F-35Bs (Air Force and Marine variants), F-18E Super Hornets, F-18G Growlers, E-2C Hawkeyes, F-22 Raptors, F-15C Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-16 Fighting Falcons. Additionally, a ground station participated in support of B-1 developmental testing. Merging all of these objectives took the efforts of test pilots, engineers, and airspace operators. Turner led the innovative approach to testing the highly complex system(s).

“This was an important advance in how we vet our weapon systems in DT and OT,” Turner said. “Orange Flag required a huge team effort and I look forward to seeing it impact the warfighter in the future.”

Test engineer Kristofer Peterson noted that the value of the unique data set generated during the test brings to light issues that may have previously been unknown, which could potentially bring about innovation after the data is evaluated and leveraged. “The dataset will allow us to quickly identify issues across multiple platforms and even uncover issues we previously didn’t know about,” he said. “However, to do this we require new analysis methods and we plan on leveraging the lessons learned from a data analytics innovation project funded by the test wing this past year.”

Interoperability engineer Matt Smerk also commented on the unique value of the Orange Flag Events. "We must be able to integrate and interoperate our joint forces across a wide range of mission areas. OFEs enable the test community to capture data to assess the military utility of integrating and interoperating multiple platforms in an environment not done via traditional DT."...

...The planning included 10 organizations distributed across five different locations. This year’s Orange Flag served as an example of successful distributed test operations, with control rooms at Edwards and China Lake ensuring effective test setup and execution of operations originating from Edwards, China Lake, Nellis, Eglin and Pt. Mugu.

Future Orange Flag events are scheduled to occur each quarter starting in February 2018."

Source: http://www.edwards.af.mil/News/Article/ ... -services/

[Gums]

Salute!


Errrrr....... Corsair.....

Did I miss the post by Spaz just before your "quote" of the complete post by Spaz, and then a few words by you?

Gums whines...

P.S. Good to see the Stubbies flying about here last two weeks with a few mixed formations and such.

[optimist]

when are you getting broadband Gums? You're stovepiping.

[Gums]

Salute!

I don't unnerstan the "stovepiping" ref, but whatthehell. I'll continue to berate anyone that insists upon quoting an entire post without commenting upon a specific sentence or phrase.

The text quotes are not a problem with 56K telephone modem, they are just irritating as I just read the post above!!!

As far as broadband goes, I had to have a satellite rig installed last year at the mountain cabin, No cable, no cell, no landline DSL due to distance from substation, etc. If you are not high speed these days it sucks when sites cram unwanted videos down your throat. Worse, with the Hughes rig in the mountains I pay by the byte!!!!

In any case, I just wanted to remind our folks to observe a fair amount of etiquette and realize most of us have read the previous post and do not need to be reminded unless one excerpts a bit for discussion.

Gums sends...

[citanon]

In guilty of the quote the entire post thing some times

It turns out to be a complete pain to partial quote on a cellphone.

Modern mobile computing colliding with cabin in the mountains remote communications....

Re: spaz's post: the things those boys must be learning

[nutshell]

So f35 and 22 as blues and reds?

Those pilot gonna have so much fun /s.

[blindpilot]

So f35 and 22 as blues and reds?

Those pilot gonna have so much fun /s.

Actually it's more than just fun.

Much like you don't make an aircraft carrier by putting some planes on a ship with a flat top deck. Operating such systems over time creates deep ecosystems/institutional knowledge, that take time to mature. Nothing can replace that time ....

The headstart (literally decades now) in development of B-2/F-117/22/35 conops, and engaging fifth gen tech is more than just some magic paint on an airframe. If you gave an air force 4 F-35s, it would take time (years) to mature those ecosystems. That's why other allies are embedded with the US services.(training at Luke, at Beaufort, exchanges with US units like F-22 squadrons) They have been spending years, growing roots.

Every exercise widens that gap. And every exercise builds on the last one.

MHO,
BP

[nutshell]

The reasoning behind it is stupidly intuitive; just try to immagine how frustrating might be for a F35 pilot to stare at his own radar hoping to catch that F22 pilot...

[steve2267]

The reasoning behind it is stupidly intuitive; just try to immagine how frustrating might be for a F35 pilot to stare at his own radar hoping to catch that F22 pilot...

It was in a different thread, I think, wherein I mused that a F-35 fourship might be able to take down an F-22 fourship. F-16adf, with far more experience than I, and having spoke with F-22 pilots at Langley, put my musings to rest fairly quickly, declaring that no other fighter in the world was better at air-to-air than the F-22. And I have to take that statement at face value.

Where my musings had originated from, however, was not any suggestion that the F-35 was more maneuverable than the F-22, or had any better kinematic performance, though an old statement by fulcrumflyer on AboveTopSecret forum suggests the F-35 might out-accelerate the F-22 subsonically in certain altitude ranges... no my musings had arisen from F-35 having DAS and EOTS, whereas the F-22, as best I can tell, has nothing comparable? Thus I wondered if a fourship of F-35's might get a sniff of the F-22's via IR and/or electroptics, then they would all know where they were via MADL. Knowing where they were and their heading, perhaps strategies could be developed that allows one F-35 to then paint an F-22 from a less stealthy aspect (e.g. abeam a wing?) and get some additional information via APG-81 to refine tracks?

Of course, if the F-22 has something like DAS, it would work both ways.

[optimist]

Don't put money on the specs or even what the actual systems are on the f-22. deception is all part of the game.

[Gums]

Salute!

Good points Opt.

Some things you keep to yourself. And then there' basic, or not so basic, tactics using the equipment you have and the other guy knows you have it but isn't sure you are using it or using it as advertised.

You nailed it with "deception is all part of the game". So even with full knowledge I was behind your Bear or Bison, I could have my radar in the search mode but have a perfect lockon using my IRSTS and the "IR/RDR SLAVE" mode ( F-102, F-101B and F-106) way back in the 60's when I was a nugget. Close in, then upgrade to full system lock and fire within a few seconds in the heart of the envelope. So fast forward to a galaxy far away from the one I learned and fought in. I can use a host of sensors as Steve has postulated, and the other guy may not even know I am there due to the LO features of my jet.
There are plenty of ways to calculate the target path nowadays due to the cosmic computers. Close in for the kill shot where his sensors have a weakness and poof.

One cool thing we had back then was a hydraulicaly tuned magnetron. It had RF characteristics like today's spread spectrum. It could tune over a very wide band between pulses, so the other guy would only see static or white noise on his ECN display. We did not advertise the specifics, and the other guys prolly knew a lot about our capabilities. The problem was knowing if we were using it or not. And then we couldn't practice a lot with the best mode if a certain satellite was overhead. Nevertheless, my RIO and I saw it one day attacking a buff. Great EWO, and he would brak our lock within a few seconds or use a range gate stealer with an angle deception repeater process. So we're wasting gas sitting there and RIO says, "screw it, we're going "fast max"". Lockon follows, my steering dot settles, and "Fox 1". Because the buff was colocated with us, we had a good debrief. EWO said that suddenly it looked to him that we had turned our radar off.

So imagine the possibilities with the new radars and sensors.

Gums sends...

Our 4th gen folks have to see what it's like to face an adversary which employs just a few 5th gen dudes amongs many 3rd and 4th gen platforms.

[blindpilot]

Salute!

Good points Opt.

... So we're wasting gas sitting there and RIO says, "screw it, we're going "fast max"". Lockon follows, my steering dot settles, and "Fox 1". Because the buff was collocated with us, we had a good debrief. EWO said that suddenly it looked to him that we had turned our radar off.
So imagine the possibilities with the new radars and sensors.
Gums sends...

And this was followed by the buff crew going back for an ECM adaptation, followed by another similar F-101/102 ECCM response, followed by ....

This is why I say that the decades of fifth gen exercises/conops development are serious advantages for US services having been there done that at multiple levels.

And actually, unless the F-35 guy is someone who flew F-22s for a tour, the F-22s ... well let's just say they have been "fighting" fifth gen battles for a few more years than the F-35 guy... so I wouldn't understate the F-22s doing their job. They've been exercising fifth gen stuff since Exercise Northern Edge June 2006.

Of course work like the above Checkered Flag 18-1 is building on that experience foundation very fast for the F-35s.

MHO
BP

[Gums]

Salute!

The one I wanna see is Red 22's and Blue 35's.

The initial Viper Red Flag and Green Flag exercises were a surprise to the Reds. We weren't LO and were a little bit easier to see visually than the Red T-38 and F-5 guys. The thing that got them was we had longer legs than they expected and could hit the tgt first pass and fight our way in/out if we had to. With 6 x 1000 pounders and one jamming pod and two missiles it was easy to zip in at 540 KIAS burning about 9,000 lb/hr. We took two bags and used centerline for the pod, MERS for the eggs. So I sit there one day and note I had 10,000 friggin' pounds and a hundred miles out from tgt at 540 KIAS burning 9,000 lb/hour with lottsa throttle left over.

The second thing I mentioned was we could turn and fight if we picked up the other guy soon enuf. The aggressor guys didn't use radar, so it had to be visual pickup and good formation. The other guys showed up on RHAW early enuf to check six and engage or keep on trucking. See the RAF Bomb Comp history for first Viper dissimilar competition.

I think only way the other guy is gonna get a Subby is visually with sun behind him. Even then, the radar warning gear might get a sniff before it's too late.

Gums opines....