Another Fresh Take From the Tampa Bay Times

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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tincansailor

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Unread post30 Nov 2017, 12:18

It shows the dishonesty of Sprey that he doesn't correct the record himself. He's not an aviation engineer, or any kind of designer. His only contribution to the creation of the F-16 was to help write the requirements for the contract. How much credibility do you have when you lie about something so major, and so easily disproved? It shows the incompetence of his hosts that they don't bother to do any fact checking about their guest. Why do they give a liar a forum, and lend him their credibility?
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Unread post30 Nov 2017, 13:12

grab6303 wrote:"Google the designer of the F-16 and see what he said."


It's honestly a huge shame that Sprey gets credit for Harry Hillaker's work.
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Unread post30 Nov 2017, 15:36

kimjongnumbaun wrote:
grab6303 wrote:"Google the designer of the F-16 and see what he said."


It's honestly a huge shame that Sprey gets credit for Harry Hillaker's work.

Warning...RANT...

It really is a shame. Such a beautiful aircraft should not be credited to that man. I haven't touched a Viper in 10 years but still have an immense amount of respect for it and it's community. Also, damn I miss the smell of that jet starting, unique and glorious.

I can't figure out what troubled me more about that thread. The old news reported as relevant or the fact that a random dude felt that a lifelong F-16/F-35 maintainer would actually need to Google Pierre Sprey to gain some sort of insight on modern airpower.

In my field time with the F-35, I was asked to brief many DVs on issues and without fail I would have to spend 30 minutes disproving articles like this before actually getting into the issues we needed fixed. So much wasted time with Generals, Executives, the SASC (McCain's staff was always a hoot), and others. Hell, one time the SECAF asked me how we were dealing with an ALIS problem that was 4 years solved. This type of "news" is how those decision makers used to get their F-35 info. Hope it's better nowadays and they just go to the field to get the straight dirt.

Rant over. Grab
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Gums

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Unread post30 Nov 2017, 15:54

Salute!

Whoa, Steve!!!

Those paper bags could be very effective if you could get close enuf to employ them. Wet bags that could clog intakes, glue planes to the ramp, degrade the radar antennas, and the beat goes on.

Reminds me that Sprey never consulted with my old wingman and I that had developed a host of new, cheap, light weapons to employ versus those expensive Tomahawks, JDAMs and LGB's. The most interesting was the foam bomb.

Many boats manufacturers and such use a pair of chemicals that create massive amounts of foam for flotation/insulation when mixed together. So our concept was simple. We had all those empty napalm cans from Vietnam, soooooo..... recycle and save the planet! Besides, our weapon was non-lethal unless you got trapped inside the big foam doofer they created. So load one nape can with the activator and the other with the resin and drop in pairs. The resulting foam expansion deposit could be as large as a football field. The enema jets couldn't even start their engines much less taxi. Then the big one we put at each end of the runway, heh heh. How are you gonna clear those? Scrape them with a front loader or snow plow? Still laughing when I think about it.

Gums sends...
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grab6303

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Unread post30 Nov 2017, 16:00

Gums wrote:Salute!

Whoa, Steve!!!

Those paper bags could be very effective if you could get close enuf to employ them. Wet bags that could clog intakes, glue planes to the ramp, degrade the radar antennas, and the beat goes on.

Reminds me that Sprey never consulted with my old wingman and I that had developed a host of new, cheap, light weapons to employ versus those expensive Tomahawks, JDAMs and LGB's. The most interesting was the foam bomb.

Many boats manufacturers and such use a pair of chemicals that create massive amounts of foam for flotation/insulation when mixed together. So our concept was simple. We had all those empty napalm cans from Vietnam, soooooo..... recycle and save the planet! Besides, our weapon was non-lethal unless you got trapped inside the big foam doofer they created. So load one nape can with the activator and the other with the resin and drop in pairs. The resulting foam expansion deposit could be as large as a football field. The enema jets couldn't even start their engines much less taxi. Then the big one we put at each end of the runway, heh heh. How are you gonna clear those? Scrape them with a front loader or snow plow? Still laughing when I think about it.

Gums sends...


Some of the best out of the box thinking I've ever heard. I'd buy you a scotch if we were within a hundred yards of eachother. Imagine putting your magic sauce into a couple of penetrators and dropping them into one of 'Lil Kim's nuke facilities...HILARIOUS
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popcorn

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Unread post30 Nov 2017, 23:36

Someone took gums' magic foam idea and ran with it. :D
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pmi

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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 00:05

The sticky foam dispensers were tried out by 7th Marines when they went back into Somalia in '95.

The results weren't impressive. The length of the curing time was a major issue.
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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 01:16

Salute!

@pmi

Stuff we used way back in 70's for our custom fitted helmets expanded within seconds and cured in a few minutes.

Our alternate weapon was the super glue bomb!! Fill the nape cans with super glue and drop at the exit of the enema shelters! Collateral glue would also inhibit support vehicles and personnel from trying to open the shelter doors or move any jets that were stuck on the ramp. LOL.

God, but I still laugh at the neat things we thot up when sitting Sandy alert. And then there was the cheapo precision guided bombs that employed pigeons. WW2 folks didn't carry this idea forward, but we thot it was worth a shot/test. So we train the pigeons for destroyers, battleships, carriers, cruisers, adar sites and so forth. Little suckers lay on their belly and have super vision, so no expensive optics required. They peck on switches to steer the glide bomb and get a corn kernel every peck. They could not be jammed with RF, but maybe a bright searchlight if the enema knew the nature of the weapon. The best thing was the suckers were launch-and-leave from way far away.

Gums sends...
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pmi

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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 03:21

Gums wrote:Salute!

@pmi

Stuff we used way back in 70's for our custom fitted helmets expanded within seconds and cured in a few minutes.


The stuff they've experimented with as a non-lethal is basically the same. The issue with trying to use it on personnel was that they could move out of it before it set, or before you could get enough on them to weigh them down.
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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 14:21

Gums wrote:Salute!

@pmi

Stuff we used way back in 70's for our custom fitted helmets expanded within seconds and cured in a few minutes.

Our alternate weapon was the super glue bomb!! Fill the nape cans with super glue and drop at the exit of the enema shelters! Collateral glue would also inhibit support vehicles and personnel from trying to open the shelter doors or move any jets that were stuck on the ramp. LOL.

God, but I still laugh at the neat things we thot up when sitting Sandy alert. And then there was the cheapo precision guided bombs that employed pigeons. WW2 folks didn't carry this idea forward, but we thot it was worth a shot/test. So we train the pigeons for destroyers, battleships, carriers, cruisers, adar sites and so forth. Little suckers lay on their belly and have super vision, so no expensive optics required. They peck on switches to steer the glide bomb and get a corn kernel every peck. They could not be jammed with RF, but maybe a bright searchlight if the enema knew the nature of the weapon. The best thing was the suckers were launch-and-leave from way far away.

Gums sends...



What else can anyone say. Gums you are a genius.
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rheonomic

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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 18:27

Gums wrote:God, but I still laugh at the neat things we thot up when sitting Sandy alert. And then there was the cheapo precision guided bombs that employed pigeons. WW2 folks didn't carry this idea forward, but we thot it was worth a shot/test. So we train the pigeons for destroyers, battleships, carriers, cruisers, adar sites and so forth. Little suckers lay on their belly and have super vision, so no expensive optics required. They peck on switches to steer the glide bomb and get a corn kernel every peck. They could not be jammed with RF, but maybe a bright searchlight if the enema knew the nature of the weapon. The best thing was the suckers were launch-and-leave from way far away.


These days you could make precision munitions relatively cheaply. I've played around some concepts for DIY smart munitions for SUAS; with MEMS sensors, 3d printing, RC equipment you could make a "mini JDAM" rather easily.
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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 18:47

rheonomic wrote:
Gums wrote:God, but I still laugh at the neat things we thot up when sitting Sandy alert. And then there was the cheapo precision guided bombs that employed pigeons. WW2 folks didn't carry this idea forward, but we thot it was worth a shot/test. So we train the pigeons for destroyers, battleships, carriers, cruisers, adar sites and so forth. Little suckers lay on their belly and have super vision, so no expensive optics required. They peck on switches to steer the glide bomb and get a corn kernel every peck. They could not be jammed with RF, but maybe a bright searchlight if the enema knew the nature of the weapon. The best thing was the suckers were launch-and-leave from way far away.


These days you could make precision munitions relatively cheaply. I've played around some concepts for DIY smart munitions for SUAS; with MEMS sensors, 3d printing, RC equipment you could make a "mini JDAM" rather easily.



Combine that with high-powered rocketry or R/C turbine engines, image recognition and cell phone cameras. . .
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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 20:32

sferrin wrote:Combine that with high-powered rocketry or R/C turbine engines, image recognition and cell phone cameras. . .


You could definitely build a cruise missile on the cheap.
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Unread post04 Dec 2017, 22:39

Now if you can combine the properties of Glue + Foam.
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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 03:41

Corsair1963 wrote:I live in Tampa and talk about embarrassing...... :?



Yet, it's interesting that the author didn't mention the praise that the F-35 has received from a number of leading figures in the state. Including the states Governor (Rick Scott) and both Senators. (Marco Rubio and Bill Nelson) Nor, the fact that over the last couple of years. That same leadership of both political parties. Are trying to acquire F-35's for the Florida ANG in Jacksonville......


As I always say, it's not what they tell you, but what they don't?


I lived in Tampa for the first eighteen years of my life, and escaped to Missouri as soon as I was able! I still wind up down there sometimes to visit family.

Daniel Ruth is a name I haven't heard in a long time - I was better off for it! The guy is a left-wing hack with absolutely no grasp of technical subjects. Him shooting his mouth off on the F-35 is disappointing but not surprising. It's about representative of the competence or lack there of I've come to expect from mass-market news media :doh:
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