PODcast - Parts I & II: F-35 in the Crossfire [Sprey/Berke]

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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tincansailor

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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 07:39

archeman wrote:
talkitron wrote:Thanks Dragon for the video. Pierre Sprey claims that F-22s fighting over Iraq and Syria fly one sortie every five days or so. One sortie every five days is a small number. Does anyone have more data on F-22s sorties in Iraq and Syria or perspective on why the number of days per sortie might be so high?


The F-22 would be useless as a Red Flag participant with that kind of '1/5 days' reliability.
Yet the F-22 shows up and performs it's role in Red Flag over and over again.

Something doesn't 'smell' right about that 1/5 information.



Your point about Red Flag makes perfect sense. F-22 Squadrons are clearly capable of sustained high tempo operations. The cost per flying hour may be high, but they clearly can do it. As they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and Red Flag is the eating. Or is it that the F-22 is the pudding, and Red Flag is the proof?

Sprey is one of those so called experts who is never held accountable for ether lying, or just being consistently wrong. It's strange to me that he passes himself off as an aircraft designer when any basic bio check would reveal he's not. Once you find that a person is lying about his credentials the rest of what they says should be suspect. Authors have their careers ruined over plagiarism, Doctors can go to jail for having fake degrees, brokers and layer's lose their licenses for lying to their clients, or the courts. It seems there are no ethical standards for defense critics.
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garrya

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 03:52

I just had a discussion with neofightr in this topic https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=191547 .He said that he is a F-18 pilots. I don't know if he telling the truth or not but if he is It is the first time i talk to a combat pilot who pretty much agrees with all statements from Sprey so i thought it may worth sharing. :D What are your thoughts?
P/s: for anyone with little patient, i started to comment in page 6 that where our discussion started.
Last edited by garrya on 15 Aug 2017, 05:06, edited 1 time in total.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 04:32

I'm santa claws - talk to me or the reindeer - I forget all their names but DONNA und BLITZEN you talk on the INTERNET?
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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garrya

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 05:08

spazsinbad wrote:I'm santa claws - talk to me or the reindeer - I forget all their names but DONNA und BLITZEN you talk on the INTERNET?

Iam sorry but i don't understand, what do you mean? :(
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spazsinbad

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 05:18

People typing on a keyboard on the internet can be anyone they claim to be & YOU have no idea of the truth, deal with it.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 05:34

garrya wrote:I just had a discussion with neofightr in this topic https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=191547 .He said that he is a F-18 pilots. I don't know if he telling the truth or not but if he is It is the first time i talk to a combat pilot who pretty much agrees with all statements from Sprey so i thought it may worth sharing. :D What are your thoughts?
P/s: for anyone with little patient, i started to comment in page 6 that where our discussion started.


NF knows his sh*t.
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lbk000

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 05:35

I don't think he's lying about being in the service, but being in the service doesn't make him a saint.

The people on EDF are just too cucked to call him out for ego farming.
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 05:41

Hello 'maus92' - how are you today?
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 05:49

You keep trying to compare the F16 as a bomber when Sprey would be the first to tell you it's a terrible bomber. The team he was a part of originally designed the F16 as a day-only air superiority fighter so of course it's a terrible bomber and to compare it to the F35 just makes the F35 look just as bad.
A great bomber is the B52, a great bomber is the B2 and a great in-close ground support aircraft is the A10, and an adequate maritime bomber is the F/A18. The F35 is none of these

What am i reading here? F-35 is a lousy bomber because it isn't as good as B-52 and B-2? :roll:

And we all know about the F15 and it's reputation don't we.

He and the people that worked alongside him have a lot to be proud of.

:roll: the heck?

s Although I don't think the E was ever a true replacement for the Tomcat, my gut feeling is it would fair better overall since it's better rounded as a fighter than the F35

An educated guess that he is a Boeing shill :mrgreen:
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blindpilot

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 06:09

lbk000 wrote:I don't think he's lying about being in the service, but being in the service doesn't make him a saint.

The people on EDF are just too cucked to call him out for ego farming.


Actually, there is no reason to doubt his stated background or opinion. What Berke knows that he doesn't know is the experience of dealing with the fifth gen paradigm. He did not fly training in F-22's with wet eared, low time lieutenants kicking his butt, because he was trapped in the "old way of thinking." Berke did. He doesn't understand the "iPhone" yet, and there's no reason he should. He still thinks its an "iPod, and a telephone, and an internet terminal."

The F-35 is not a "fighter jet," not a "telephone." It is a whole new way of thinking, that no one gets,.... until they do.

Berke's witness is spot on and very right.

Two things remain,
One, those that are closest to the Program, are impressed beyond just the F-35 being better. They are blown away by the new paradigm.
Two, even the pilots and units flying it are just learning what it all means. They have just started using "Their iPhone." More is yet to come.

It's just like any other paradigm shift. You don't get it, until you do.
"But Aircraft carriers only have 5 inch guns, and less armor than a battleship ... Yeah BUT!!!! It can operate a high tempo air base in the middle of the ocean... BUT it doesn't have the big guns ... Yeah BUT It can operate an air base in the middle of the ocean ... etc. etc. > WW II etc.

But those rapid fire rifles, and new artillery guns will not be able to be moved as fast as the cavalry can on horses... yeah but they fire a sheet of lead across the entire front ... But horses can run around their flanks ... yeah but they fire a sheet of lead across the entire front ... > WW I."

You don't get it, until you do.
MHO
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Dragon029

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 07:26

garrya wrote:I just had a discussion with neofightr in this topic https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=191547 .He said that he is a F-18 pilots. I don't know if he telling the truth or not but if he is It is the first time i talk to a combat pilot who pretty much agrees with all statements from Sprey so i thought it may worth sharing. :D What are your thoughts?
P/s: for anyone with little patient, i started to comment in page 6 that where our discussion started.


Here's a Super Hornet pilot that has the opposite views:

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/commen ... s/dbixlo6/
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garrya

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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 12:05

Dragon029 wrote:
Here's a Super Hornet pilot that has the opposite views:

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/commen ... s/dbixlo6/


I have seen that actually. It just that it is the first time i talk to a pilot who agreed with Sprey so I thought i should share
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 13:58

eloise wrote:
s Although I don't think the E was ever a true replacement for the Tomcat, my gut feeling is it would fair better overall since it's better rounded as a fighter than the F35

An educated guess that he is a Boeing shill :mrgreen:

Maybe this F-18 guy might be Ricardo Traven?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing- ... -1.1320636
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 14:21

maus92 wrote:
garrya wrote:I just had a discussion with neofightr in this topic https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=191547 .He said that he is a F-18 pilots. I don't know if he telling the truth or not but if he is It is the first time i talk to a combat pilot who pretty much agrees with all statements from Sprey so i thought it may worth sharing. :D What are your thoughts?
P/s: for anyone with little patient, i started to comment in page 6 that where our discussion started.


NF knows his sh*t.


Not from what I can see. Most of those critiques are the same day 1 whining we hear before people actually get to know more on day 2. I literally loled when I heard "little compromise on the hornet" are you joking?

The Vietnam guns argument is so oversimplified and cliched and now 60 years old, that any professional who sites it raises red flags for me...

Hes white washing based on the current mood. The hornet (original and super) were both slayed as compromise designs. Hell the original notion was a freaking yf-17 an air force reject. It was bashed left right and center. Christ man. Slower than an F-4 and couldn't carry the bombs of an a-7, and the super hornet with its toed out pylons and slow a$$ everything was also crushed further as a compromise.

This guy might be a fine pilot, but he doesn't seem to understand sprey or history or most importantly, spreys history. (Why is he still carrying on the fabricated story that sprey "designed"the F-16?)

But maus says he knows his sh*t? Who was harry hilaker?


It reminds me of the marine (oh god an officer) on another forum who was determined the Us marines should operate only a-1 skyraiders. Nevermind the OV-10s that got wasted in 1991...

So probably a nice guy and great pilot, but one of the first things I learned In the military, putting on the military uniform doesn't make one an expert on military history.
it's compromised! So is everything. And sprey predicted a complicated military program would have issues, Damn knock me over with a feather! Even the super hornet has and continues to have issues, the Boeing tanker has issues. Is it compromised? What happened?

The F-14 was loaded with compromise if you read the history and was considered the king, only to be replaced by the too much compromise hornet. It's important to note, that just because the F-35 was not built exactly how the USN wanted it, does not make it hopelessly compromised. The second people bring up the "no two engine!" F-8, a-7, a-4... Just to name a few. The navy was operating a-7s into the early 1990s including combat.
It's not an alien concept to have a single engine jet on the boat, it's just new to the newbies

Sprey lost a lot of his credibility after 1991 and it's good to see "nf" acknowledge that at least. Ever since he's bashed every aircraft that is not the F-16 or A-10. It's hardly selective or intelligent. He's still got a hard on for the F-15. And it was NOT a bold prediction that the JSF program was going to run into trouble. I predicted 4 crashes and 2 dead on the STOVL in 2001. Happy to be wrong, but it was going to be a long climb. People knew that. Just like how the F-22 was a long climb and it was single mission, single service.

I wouldn't mind sprey and his apologists if the guy just admitted he was wrong every once in a while. Instead it's this ideology. Nothing will defeat the god of simplicity, and the devil of technology will be defeated. Ideology is a terrible thing because everything has to "fit" to make it work. The F-15 Is a bright shining example that the " too big, too complicated, too expensive" stuff does work. Contradciting the sprey narrative, their entire theory was toasted. He just doubled down. And if NF has actually had to meet and work with some of these guys he'd be far less impressed with them. Every military man I know that ran into the "reformers" was unimpressed with them, and they frequently took credit for things they did not do.

Try again maus
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Unread post15 Aug 2017, 15:53

I think I found a picture of that Hornet pilot in his fighter. It would explain the fascination with guns.

Image
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