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Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 16:29
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Okay, got it. I don't do Reddit so I don;t know those details.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 13 Jul 2018, 01:38
by spazsinbad
Just bekoz today & Oz: https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/strik ... e-concerns
"...the F-35, which Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Leo Davies is quoted as saying will "replace nothing, because they change everything"...."

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 20:43
by playloud
lrrpf52 wrote:
...scoring as many as 27 “kills” in a single sortie

:wtf:

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 21:51
by playloud
Unless my definition is wrong, each plane is its own sortie. A four-ship would be 4 sorties. But the part you highlighted shows they did indeed include the wingmen. They shouldn't have said a single sortie though.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 22:20
by spazsinbad
Just to add another equation changer... somewhere I've seen reference to a FIVE aircraft formation (perhaps Oz?)….

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 23:24
by spazsinbad
It is just bad communication, nothing new in that at all. Always operational details are obscure and they will get obscurer.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2018, 23:55
by vilters
If I was going to fly the F-35 it would sound something like this : "Skinny is gonna fly fatty". LOL.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 11 Aug 2018, 00:11
by quicksilver
lrrpf52 wrote:
playloud wrote:Unless my definition is wrong, each plane is its own sortie. A four-ship would be 4 sorties. But the part you highlighted shows they did indeed include the wingmen. They shouldn't have said a single sortie though.

You're right about the definition of a sortie in military aviation.

It would have been accurate for them to say "within the duration of his sortie", but that wouldn't print well for that particular release.


"It would have been accurate for them to say..." [my emphasis added]. It wasn't 'them' who said it; it was the author of the article.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 11 Aug 2018, 02:39
by spazsinbad
spazsinbad wrote:Just to add another equation changer... somewhere I've seen reference to a FIVE aircraft formation (perhaps Oz?)….

Have not found the 'five F-35 formation' so far however have found many references to the four aircraft variety. What I recall for the FIVE is that the leader was in the centre of the form with four others at points of the compass heading N.
"...The F-35 is designed to fly in groups of four and they are all supposed to share their data with each other. The military doesn’t like to talk about it, but the planes do not fly in a tight formation. It’s more like a diamond spread out over dozens or hundreds of miles. [Gen. Bogdan] … viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26629&p=287971&hilit=diamond+formation#p287971

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 11:48
by spazsinbad
No one has commented on why FIVE F-35s in a Diamond with fifth in middle is useful - using MADL at 10nm for example looks thusly:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- N

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 Nm

------------------------------------------------ W ----- 10 Nm -------- M ------- 10 Nm ------------ E

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 Nm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- S

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 11:54
by spazsinbad
"...Norwegian Air Force Major Morten Hanche, who piloted one of the Norwegian F-35s, said the mock fight with the F-22s was great practice, especially since the F-35s generally surprise and overpower other non-stealthy aircraft...." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1L01YX

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 15:39
by steve2267
Spaz, are you referring to the concept that the middleman avoids a visual deadspot in the middle of the diamond?

That 5-ship diamond results in a better "mesh" topology. But if 10nm spacing is "optimal" for visual detection and mutual aid, then why not fly a 4-ship (if 5 are not available) line abreast spaced at 10nm intervals? If any one ship detects the enema, they can blow through (or engage), but all your buddies could "collapse" on the bandit from the sides. So a line-abreast would be like a 1-D mesh, though the mesh would not be as robust as a 2-D (e.g. diamond) mesh.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 15:59
by popcorn
Don't know how important visual detection is when employing multiple 5gens. Obviously sensors and data links coverage extend BVR. There is an account of a F-22 pilot taking off and never catching sight of the other planes in his flight until they RTB.

I could imagine a benefit of the middle ship as a relay, allowing for a more widely dispersed.flight?

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 16:19
by steve2267
My comment was made with an eye towards the recently reported exercise between Norwegian F-35's and USAF F-22's.

I do not know the reason behind a middleman in a diamond, if that is even a thing, but was positing some possible reasons why you might put someone there.

Here's a different thought. Lest we get caught up in planar thought... Could the middleman be flying 5-10,000 feet lower or higher than the other aircraft? More of a tetrahedron shape? Of course, now you would have different fuel burn rates between elements of your formation.

Re: Favorite F-35 Quotes

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2018, 20:32
by castlebravo
If the flight leader out front is going to attract the enemy's attention, and the guy in the back is going to be blasting away with his APG-81 tracking all the targets, maybe the guy in the middle needs to be lined up behind the flight lead to jam anything attacking him. Meanwhile, the other two approach off-angle and slide the knife in without ever emitting anything.