DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 31 Oct 2016, 19:48
by zerion
F-35 Lightning II Testing Begins on USS America

Story Number: NNS161031-16Release Date: 10/31/2016 12:09:00 PM
From USS America (LHA 6) Public Affairs

PACIFIC OCEAN (NNS) -- Five Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II aircraft landed on the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) on Friday, October 28.

America will embark seven F-35Bs -- two are scheduled to begin the third shipboard phase of developmental test (DT-III) and five are scheduled to conduct operational testing.

America, the first ship of its class, is an aviation-centric platform that incorporates key design elements to accommodate the fifth-generation fighter.

The ship's design features several aviation capabilities enhanced beyond previous amphibious assault ships which include an enlarged hangar deck, realignment and expansion of the aviation maintenance facilities, a significant increase in available stowage of parts and equipment, as well as increased aviation fuel capacity.

America is capable of accommodating F-35Bs, MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, and a complement of Navy and Marine Corps helicopters.

The third test phase will evaluate F-35B Short Take-off Vertical Landing (STOVL) operations in a high-sea state, shipboard landings, and night operations. The cadre of flight test pilots, engineers, maintainers, and support personnel from the F-35 Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF) are assigned to Air Test & Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland.

"It's exciting to start the execution phase of our detachment with VMX-1 (Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 1) on USS America," said Lt. Col. Tom "Sally" Fields, F-35 Patuxent River ITF Government Flight Test director assigned to VX-23. "During the next three weeks, we will be completing critical flight test for both Developmental Test (DT) and Operational Test (OT). The F-35 Pax River ITF and VX-23 will be conducting DT work that will establish the boundaries of safe operation for the F-35B in the 3F configuration. VMX-1 will be conducting OT operations focused on preparing maintenance crews and pilots for the first deployment of the F-35B aboard USS Wasp (LHD 1), scheduled to start in just over a year."

The operational testing will also include simulating extensive maintenance aboard a ship, said Col. George Rowell, commanding officer of VMX-1, based at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona.

Rowell stated one of the VMX jets on board will be placed in the hangar bay, taken apart, and put together again, just to make sure everything goes well.

The maintenance work will include the replacement of a lift fan, the specialized equipment made by Rolls Royce and Pratt and Whitney that gives the F-35B variant its short take-off, "jump jet" capability, Rowell said.

The Marine Corps variant of the F-35 Lightning II reached the fleet first, with the service declaring initial operational capability July 2015.

"The F-35 Lightning II is the most versatile, agile, and technologically-advanced aircraft in the skies today, enabling our Corps to be the nation's force in readiness -- regardless of the threat, and regardless of the location of the battle," said Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, deputy commandant for aviation, Marine Corps. "As we modernize our fixed-wing aviation assets for the future, the continued development and fielding of the short take-off and vertical landing, the F-35B remains the centerpiece of this effort."

"The America class of amphibious assault ship design enables it to carry a larger and more diverse complement of aircraft, including the tiltrotor MV-22 Osprey, the new F-35 Lightning II, and a mix of cargo and assault helicopters," added Davis. "America is able to support a wide spectrum of military operations and missions, including putting Marines ashore for combat operations, launching air strikes, keeping sea lanes free and open for the movement of global commerce, and delivering humanitarian aid following a natural disaster."

http://www.cpf.navy.mil/news.aspx/110153

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 31 Oct 2016, 22:53
by spazsinbad
Very Boring Short Early Video.... & URL for story above: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=97428


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2016, 05:58
by neptune
zerion wrote:[..PACIFIC OCEAN (NNS) -- Five Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II aircraft landed on the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) on Friday, October 28...]


...finally it begins!
:)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2016, 09:57
by gergf-14

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2016, 20:41
by SpudmanWP


In this video, shot from the back of an MV-22B Osprey on the flight deck, an F-35 approaches the ship in seconds, then hovers in mid-air, churning up clouds of sea spray with its powerful lift fans before descending for a precise vertical landing on the ship.

You can see the deck swaying with the elevated swells as the aircraft makes its approach.

The F-35 will be completing testing aboard the America for the next three weeks. In addition to operating in swells of up to eight feet, the aircraft will test its full weapons load-out, aircraft software, and a full range of vertical takeoff and landing capabilities.


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2016/11/01/watch ... ding-ship/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Nov 2016, 21:25
by spazsinbad
:applause: Magic - BZ - Well Done that cameraperson. Good idea to be so close in back of the V-22. I CAN'T HEAR YOU......! :mrgreen: & thanks 'SWP' for putting the vid on Ubend.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 02 Nov 2016, 04:34
by spazsinbad
:devil: Looks like an Xwind from LEFT is causing some cringeing on deck :roll: : https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... __main.jpg

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 02 Nov 2016, 04:34
by yeswepromise
looks like we got vx-23, vfma-211, and vmx-1 jets onboard.
BF-01 and -05 have the DT3 logo on the inside of the LH vertical. Looks cool withe the flag background.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 02 Nov 2016, 21:11
by zerion

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 02 Nov 2016, 21:50
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 03 Nov 2016, 03:11
by Jon
Spotted aircraft on this deployment:

BF-01 of VX-23
BF-05 of VX-23
169024 CF-06 of VMFA-211
169028 CF-11 of VMFA-211
168312 MV-52 of VMX-1
168XXX MV-55 of VMX-1 (need full serial)
168718 MV-56 of VMX-1

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 03 Nov 2016, 18:19
by zerion
F-35s Practice Vertical Landings on a Marine Corps Assault Ship

The U.S. Marine Corps has been landing F-35B Joint Strike Fighters on the amphibious assault ship USS America. The jets are undertaking a series of tests to prove their ability to operate in real-world deployment conditions, just months before their first real deployment abroad.

According to the Navy, seven F-35Bs from the VMX-1, the Marine Corps' testing and evaluation squadron, have been sent to the America. Five will be used to evaluate the plane's performance in "high-sea state, shipboard landings, and night operations." The Marines also plan to take one of the planes into the ship's hangar, take it apart, and then put it back together again.



http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... rd%20Brief

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 03 Nov 2016, 18:30
by SpudmanWP
Look at the canopy shake in the wind... yikes.

Is it just me or do the hold-down chains seem a bit.... tiny?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 03 Nov 2016, 18:37
by sferrin
SpudmanWP wrote:Look at the canopy shake in the wind... yikes.

Is it just me or do the hold-down chains seem a bit.... tiny?



Saw the canopy thing the other day. Hadn't ever noticed it on an aircraft before, but then again it could have been windy.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 03 Nov 2016, 19:56
by spazsinbad
Yes it was windy - see clothes ripple (with the wind perhaps across the canopy sideways) when canopy was shaking. The tie down chains are as required for the job. Remember the deck crew have to carry/drag them around. Much noise they make when chains dragged on dark nights. Probably many more chains can be affixed to more tie down points (often one tiedown point may have more than one chain on it - and on the aircraft also - but those F-35 details not known to me).

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2016, 02:51
by neptune
zerion wrote:F-35s Practice Vertical Landings on a Marine Corps Assault Ship

The U.S. Marine Corps has been landing F-35B Joint Strike Fighters on the amphibious assault ship USS America. The jets are undertaking a series of tests to prove their ability to operate in real-world deployment conditions, just months before their first real deployment abroad...


...not to digress but...the Brits are "developing" the roll on landing, as such "will" the Corp revise their approach and land from astern on the amphibs LHA/D to mitigate the "seaspray"???... :?: :)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 04 Nov 2016, 04:33
by spazsinbad
'neptune' come on - we have had this discussion a few times now. A few years ago when the SRVL contract for development was let the USMC indicated interest - in case they needed it for CVN use - and that idea was quickly squashed (but still early days). Eventually the USMC conceded to buy F-35Cs (instead of an ALL B fleet) for CVNs - end of story for them; with perhaps EMERGENCY SRVL use on a CVN by a B in some exotic unique circumstances yet to be dreamt.

26 forum pages of goodness: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20304 F-35B UK SRVL info - Updated when new/old info available

Already the pushback about SRVL on the ultra wide deck of CVF (perhaps constricted by parking aircraft pointing aft at 45 degrees or so) is here without any details being known except the basic approach parameters & stopping distance when compared to a SHOL diagram for such an approach - see the SRVL titled thread. What is the WIDTH of an LHA (never mind the quality [length] - feel the width)? What is the length? And so we have even less space for an SRVL - even IF the USMC required one & they don't - another end of story. What saves any SRVL is a VL with weapons dumped - Another story end.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 03:11
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 03:57
by tincansailor
This may be a silly question but what the heck. I've wondered for some time now what effect if any would salt spray have on the stealth characteristics of the F-35C? Anyone who has been at sea knows everything gets coated with salt sooner or later. Keeping salt off non-stealth aircraft was primarily for corrosion, is this an issue?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 04:29
by spazsinbad
Cannot say with 100% certainty because the F-35B/Cs have not been at sea too long - yet. However threads from ages past have made it clear that both were designed (and the A has benefitted) with the salt corrosion problem in mind. Many many materials/designs/testing have proven the robust worth of these aircraft to resist corrsosion and to make stealth maintenance relatively easier compared to prior stealth aircraft. Yes the C (& probably B) will have stealth maintenance sailors in the same way there are engine/airframe/avionics maintainers. Stealth is regarded as part of the weapon system and the stealth characteristics will be treated with respect. The stealth is robust and it has been said will improve with age (much like my goodself :mrgreen: ). Some links: the original quality of the graphic is poor and cannot be improved: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... ce-360.jpg & http://www.sldinfo.com/the-f-35-low-obs ... -aviation/

A thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=16457&p=288306&hilit=Grant+Stealth#p288306
OR
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20560&p=234684&hilit=Grant+Stealth#p234684
OR
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=19035&p=222225&hilit=Grant+Stealth#p222225
F-35C STEALTH ON THE CARRIER DECK MEANS HIGH PERFORMANCE, LOW MAINTENANCE

"...The package is designed to remain stealthy in severe combat conditions, and tests have validated that capability. After obtaining baseline radar cross section (RCS) measurements from a highly detailed, full-scale Signature Measurement Aircraft (SigMA), a team of Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman engineers intentionally inflicted extensive damage – more than three dozen significant defects – on the model. The damage represented the cumulative effect of more than 600 flight hours of military aircraft operations. RCS measurements taken after the damage showed that the stealthy signature remained intact.

“Even operating in harsh carrier-deck conditions, the F-35C will require no special care or feeding. In fact, its stealth adds very little to the day-today maintenance equation,” O’Bryan said. “We’ve come a long way from the early stealth airplanes, which needed hours or even days of attention and repair after every flight. The F-35 not only avoids that intensive level of upkeep, it will require significantly less maintenance than the nonstealth fighters it is designed to replace.”

Source: http://www.jsf.mil/news/documents/20080 ... ARRIER.rtf [this RFT attaced as a PDF now]


LM FAST FACTS have the A & C engine the same. So if the C engine is corrosion proofed then so is the A engine (some here disagree though from old early info perhaps).

Good SLDinfo article: http://www.sldinfo.com/?p=6065

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 20:17
by quicksilver
"At-sea" requirements drove the maintainability of the LO system. Aiui, they've even kept materials continuously on a beach someplace for years now, testing it periodically to see how the stuff is doing.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 21:18
by spazsinbad
From links above this is to what 'QS' refers...
The F-35 Low Observability’s Lifelong Sustainability: A Revolutionary Asset for 21st Century Combat Aviation
22 May 2010 SLDinfo

"...SLD: How would you describe the stealth LO capability of the F-35 compared to legacy systems?
Bill Grant:  Performance-wise, it is a very aggressive capability.  From a design standpoint, it is a radical change from legacy systems.  In legacy stealth, the stealth in effect is a parasitic application of a multiple stack-up of material systems done in final finish after the actual airframe is built and completed.  In the case of the F-35, we’ve incorporated much of the LO system directly into the air frame itself.  The materials have been manufactured right into the structure, so they have the durability and lifetime qualities.  It makes them much more impervious to damage.  It is a much simpler system with fewer materials to contend with.

SLD: In terms of the way you’re describing it, stealth goes from being a surface appliqué to becoming an integral part of the actual product being manufactured, is this correct?
Bill Grant:  Exactly.

SLD: So this must have a significant impact on maritime operations.  For example, the future of the F-35Bs and Cs should be a significant improvement over legacy aircraft, shoulden’t it be?
Bill Grant:  Absolutely.  The Navy and Marine Corps have set the benchmark for the LO repair facility program and approach.  They work in the worst maintenance environments.  It was the challenge we had to meet.  So our material development effort and material qualification program was predicated and populated by requirements that were specifically suited for the Navy and Marine Corps.

We have the most extensive and aggressive material qualification in our history, probably in industry history.  We have as many as ten times more coupons per materials being tested.  We have engaged in a very aggressive approach to testing which has been developed with the military labs and the program office.  We have worked with them to shape the most aggressive and most challenging test regimen from all of their different programs and their experience, and thereby compiled those experiences into our test matrix.

And the testing process has led to changes in the repair approach as well as the manufacturing approach for the program.  Obviously, when we found deficiencies, we suggested changes to the manufacturing processes, which in turn were adopted.  Indeed, the interaction between maintainers and designers has been followed throughout the F-35 program in shaping the manufacturing approach.

SLD: You’ve mentioned “ten times the coupons being tested.”  What exactly does that mean?
Bill Grant: Well, we use little mechanical coupons.  They are then used to do mechanical testing in corrosion and twisting and pulling, and those are representatives of all of the structural integrations of panels and substructure, and the material systems that spanned gaps in the panels and substructure.  We test those coupons in those mechanical situations in both hot and cold extremes and we’ve yet to see any of those gaps open up.  Naturally, if you can keep the gaps from opening up and introducing contaminants, the potential for corrosion is much lower.

We also have a large selection of similar types of coupons representative of various elements of the structure that are in exposure environments. These environments are either in the laboratory, in our salt bog, exposed to acid rains, or stack gas type of environment – a very, very aggressive environment that they’re out on exposure racks or at Battelle’s corrosion test facilities out in Daytona Beach, which is considered by the Air Force to be the most corrosion-prone area in the Continental-48.

Those coupons being tested, by the way, are in both pristine and in deliberately damaged conditions so that we’ve introduced damage that either the maintenance environment or manufacturing anomalies could represent so that we have a good test of what all the materials do in that environment...."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/the-f-35-low-obs ... -aviation/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 21:26
by count_to_10
Salt is a dialectic, so it shouldn't be particularly reflective, and I think you have to have a solid chunk of it the size of a wavelength for it's index of refraction to matter. So I'd say it was down to chemical reactions with the RAM and possibly some delamination issues if salt crystals are growing inside of the weave.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 22:56
by popcorn
quicksilver wrote:"At-sea" requirements drove the maintainability of the LO system. Aiui, they've even kept materials continuously on a beach someplace for years now, testing it periodically to see how the stuff is doing.

I recall that they actually used an LO panel as a doormat in one of their facilities. After a year of foot traffic it emerged none the worse for wear.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2016, 23:15
by spazsinbad
Yep that door mat quote would be on this forum in several places now but meanwhile....

...The 'doormat' quote is at the end of the main reference article above - to wit:
The F-35 Low Observability’s Lifelong Sustainability: A Revolutionary Asset for 21st Century Combat Aviation
22 May 2010 SLDinfo

"...SLD: In entering the facility, I noticed you have a “door mat” of stealth that’s been there for some time. Can you comment on this “door mat?”
Bill Grant:
Oh, the slab of stealth? That’s our welcome mat. Yes, we actually have one of the test panels that we use for assessing the stealth of the various materials. It represents a stack-up that’s consistent with the upper surface or the outer surface of the jet. It has the exact same structure and the primer and the topcoat system that you’ll find on the operational jets. And that gets walked upon every time somebody comes in or out of our lab area out there, the repair development center.

Occasionally, we take it up to test to see if there’s any electrical or mechanical degradation to the system and with around 25,000 steps across that system we have not seen any degradation whatsoever. So we have a great deal of confidence, however anecdotal that may be, that we have a very robust system."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/the-f-35-low-obs ... -aviation/

Building an 8,000-Hour Tactical Aircraft: 21st Century Materials Technology
27 Jul 2015 Ed Timperlake & Robbin Laird

"...Question: LO is obviously important but so is the durability of the air frame with regard to legacy aircraft. What is your sense of progress on this dimension?
Answer:
There are a whole series of validation exercises that are being gone through to show that that design is in fact valid and durable throughout the entire 8,000 hour life of the air frame.

From a corrosion standpoint, we have used a series of lessons learned from all of the legacy programs that the team has: F/A-18, F16, and F22.

We’ve made decisions on material choices to minimize galvanic interactions and maximize protection of dissimilar materials, paying very close attention to the coatings, which have been an issue on some prior airframes.

Then on top of making good design decisions based on lessons learned, we have done a very aggressive corrosion test program looking at not just what we do for the typical Air Force programs, but also the Navy standard.

We’ve been validating through these intensive chamber testing, and now we’re on our seventh year of Seacoast Testing down at the Battelle Institute in Daytona Beach, FL where we’ve had airframe, representative airframe and coating coupons out on one of their beach facilities being subjected to daily salt and seacoast environment and looking for interactions that maybe we didn’t see, didn’t plan for, and being able – because we started so early in the program to do this, we’ve been able to make a couple of design changes based on that testing that have yielded a more durable, corrosion-resistant system....

...It is amazing how little maintenance the jet requires regarding LO.

Question: Certainly, for the Marines from the outset LO has been important, but having a highly durable aircraft equally so. In fact when General Heinz, was the head of the Joint Program Office, he often highlighted how important durability is the operational environment for Marines. What LO means is that the range of environments into which the Marine can inject combat airpower simply goes up. What about a refocus on durability as a key element of the contribution of 21st century materials technologies to the F-35 airframe.
Answer:
Marines have a reputation for flying damaged and unrepaired airplanes because they’re very mission oriented.

We were concerned about their ability to maintain a VLO airplane given that mission focus. They have really impressed us.
They stepped right up and adapted to the requirements. They are aggressively changing their maintenance culture to accommodate LO. And that benefits, across the board, their care and feeding for the whole airplane.

The F-35 doesn’t really need kid glove handling, per se, but they are more attentive to it, and they are more responsive to maintenance requirements when they do come up so there’s a universal improvement of their maintenance culture....

...For those services that operate airplanes in more benign environments than an aircraft carrier, they’re getting the benefit of a coating system that’s designed for an aircraft carrier. Everybody gets the same thing...."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/building-an-8000 ... echnology/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Nov 2016, 19:50
by spazsinbad
Marines Refining F-35B Operations, Maintenance At Sea During Final Developmental Test
07 Nov 2016 Megan Eckstein

"...“We’re building up an experience level across the fleet, taking a lot of Marines that have never been on ships before, taking a lot of Navy personnel that have never interacted with the F-35 and putting out a representative number of aircraft for what a deployment would look like in the future,” Lt. Col. Richard Rusnok, Marine Operational Test & Evaluation Squadron 1 (VMX-1) detachment officer in charge, told reporters on Oct. 31 aboard amphibious assault ship America....

...Rusnok said the F-35 personnel were also working with the ship’s crew to improve flight deck operations. He said the operational testers and the ship’s Landing Signal Officers, who talk to pilots during their approach to the ship and help them land safely, met earlier that day to discuss new procedures, which will be incorporated into Navy and Marine Corps publications and spread through the fleet to inform future operations.

The operational tester added that the entire test event will be more productive due to the collaboration with the developmental testers, who usually have separate test dates and keep their test data and lessons learned separate.

“I would think the biggest thing we’re getting out of this right now is our first opportunity to do integrated test amongst [Patuxent] River [Integrated Test Force] and VMX,” Rusnok said.

“In the past, operational test and developmental test had this gigantic wall between them; developmental test got done, it got tossed over the wall and then this widget showed up and we had to test it. That is a stupid way to do business and I think we all realize it. So the synergistic effects of sharing resources, number one, because there’s obviously a limited amount of resources, and the ability for us to look at what those guys are looking at. So for example, one of our aircraft we brought out here, which we own from VMX-1, has now got the same software version that one of their aircraft had, and we were able to get an early version of that so we could take a look at it and then also provide that asset for them to conduct developmental test on. So it makes everybody more efficient when you have a very limited window of three weeks at sea to get stuff done.”

The developmental testers are using the 3F software that brings the plane to full warfighting capability, with full weapons and data link imagery capability. VMX-1 upgraded one of its planes to that 3F software version; two of its planes have the 3I software variant that included an upgraded integrated core processor, and two have the 2B software that the Marines declared IOC with, with initial warfighting capability and a more limited set of weapons.

Whereas the operational testers are working to ensure tactics, techniques and procedures actually work while operating F-35B aboard a ship, the developmental testers are pushing the airframe in extreme ways to make sure it can handle whatever the fleet may need it to do.

Andrew Maack, the chief test engineer at Patuxent River ITF, said aboard the ship that developmental testers would look at some ship-integration issues, such as how the shape and location of the island on America – which has a different design than Wasp, which hosted previous tests – would affect the plane’s ability to land. The primary focus, though, was finding rough seas to make sure the plane could land with increased deck motion in up to sea state 5, and launching the plane with a heavy weapons load-out and returning to land with a much lighter gross weight.

The DT III test event built upon DT I in October 2011 and DT II in August 2013. In this final event, Maack said the developmental testers would push the operating envelop in terms of wind and deck motion, evaluate landing systems and mission systems, ensure shipboard maintenance and logistics work as planned, evaluate the Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS), conduct the first complete at-sea evaluation of the Joint Precision Approach and Landing System (JPALS) and more.

Maj. Rob Guyette, a developmental tester with Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 (VX-23), who has more than 200 hours of flight time in the F-35 but made his first night landing on a ship the night before speaking with reporters, said the F-35 was “easier to fly than a Cessna 172” and that Marines should be excited about the future of MEU aviation operations.

“Last night was dark, it was real dark – it was one-percent illumination, overcast, no moon, rainy, in and out of rain. And it was my first time ever landing vertically on a ship at night, and it was fun,” he said.

“I mean, to be honest with you, it was fun. And we’re sitting there and we were like, that is amazing that the airplane – okay, there’s things that as testers where like, this could be better, this could be better, this could be better – that’s our job, we’re hyper-critical of everything – our wives love it, by the way – but we’re always trying to make it better. But the thing is, the bottom line, Marines love to fight. We want to practice fighting – if we can’t fight, we want to practice fighting. What we don’t want to practice, what we don’t want to spend time and money or maintenance hours on is practicing how to land. … This airplane allows us to do that, completely focus on the mission, completely take the whole landing and administrative difficulty out of it.”"

Source: https://news.usni.org/2016/11/07/marine ... operations


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 12:17
by spazsinbad
F-35B On Board USS America
03 Nov 2016 LM FlickR

"Seven F-35Bs are on board the USS America beginning Oct. 28 until mid-November. Two of the jets are scheduled to begin the third shipboard phase of developmental test (DT-III) and five are scheduled to conduct operational testing."

PHOTO: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5476/307 ... 42_o_d.jpg (2.2Mb)

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 041850865/

F-35B On Board USS America
31 Oct 2016 LM FlickR

"Five Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II aircraft landed on the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) on Friday, October 28. America will embark a total of seven F-35Bs during this testing period -- two are scheduled to begin the third shipboard phase of developmental test (DT-III) and five are scheduled to conduct operational testing."

PHOTO: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5732/306 ... 66_o_d.jpg (3.6Mb)

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 041850865/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 20:54
by spazsinbad
America's Familiarization Training Pays Off during F-35B DT-III
07 Nov 2016 F-35 PR

"PACIFIC OCEAN (NNS) -- Amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) successfully completed its fifth day of F-35B Lightning II developmental test (DT-III) with the support of flight deck personnel who received specialized training in Yuma, Arizona, earlier in the month....

..."It was the first time we were able to have eyes on launch, recovery, and taxiing the aircraft," said Chief Petty Officer
Phillip Posada, V-1 Division's crash and salvage leading chief petty officer. "We were able to get familiarized with the
aircraft's tie down points, as well as ordnance and cockpit familiarization to ensure that we are able to take care of it
safely and without causing unnecessary damage to the aircraft."...

..."There is a slight difference in handling the AV-8B [Harrier] and the F-35B," said Posada. "The Lightning II packs more
of a punch when it takes off. Because of that, our handlers know to plant themselves firmly and grab a pad eye if
necessary to steady themselves. Another attribute is that it has a sharper turning radius, so we are able to taxi the
aircraft easier."

The crash and salvage team also learned how to implement their firefighting expertise with regard to approaching the
aircraft and shutdown procedures.

"For all the other aircraft the America embarks, we are taught to approach the aircraft from the starboard side," said
Petty Officer 2nd Class Anthony Montoya, Crash & Salvage Division's leading petty officer. "When it comes to the F-35B, we are taught to approach on the port side so we can initiate shutdown procedures more efficiently."

After completing the familiarization training, America embarked eight Sailors from USS Essex (LHD 2) to pass on their
knowledge and provide them an opportunity to work with the F-35B for the first time....

...America began flight operations with the F-35B Lightning II for the first time Oct. 28, and will continue testing until the end of November...."

Source: http://www.jsf.mil/news/docs/20161107_A ... aining.pdf (113Kb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 21:15
by archeman
16 Tie Downs per?
Can someone confirm if that is abnormal or perhaps they are just confirming the maximum?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 21:34
by SpudmanWP
archeman wrote:16 Tie Downs per?
Can someone confirm if that is abnormal or perhaps they are just confirming the maximum?


16???

I can count at least 30

Image

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 08 Nov 2016, 21:48
by spazsinbad
USS America is deliberately sailing into heavy weather for F-35B test purposes. The tie down chain arrangements will be appropriate as they have calculated / have tested both ashore first (story long ago now) and today. As one would imagine the aircraft are monitored closely by many people in regard to tie downs/movement; and of course for test monitoring.

UhOh - one can see why it is best to attach JPG/graphics to a post rather than hot link:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=15492&p=195940&hilit=chain%2A+down+deck#p195940

Google Found Foto here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TLy3B90q9hU/T ... _033_1.jpg

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 10 Nov 2016, 04:13
by zerion
First F-35B Power Module, Engine Swap Take Place on USS America

PACIFIC OCEAN (NNS) -- The F-35B Lightning II completed a new milestone during its third and final Developmental Test Phase (DT-III) by successfully completing the first power module and engine swap at sea in the hangar bay of amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6).

Mark Schroeder, the maintenance and logistics department head for the F-35 Pax (Patuxent) River Integrated Test Force (ITF), said the initial at-sea power module and engine swap went well and he attributes this success to embarked Marines assigned to Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron (VMX) 1, who developed the new engine removal and replacement (R&R) process. VMX-1 teamed with the Pax River ITF for DT-III to conduct integrated test across the spectrum of flight and maintenance events.

"Any time [the Navy or Marine Corps] acquire new aircraft, they are concurrently going to acquire the training resources that it takes to operate and maintain the jet," he said. "Marine maintainers who come to work on the F-35B have typically transferred out of an AV-8B Harrier or F/A-18 Hornet squadron as those aircraft wind down and migrate out of the fleet. The people here now will be the ones to bring the new generation of aircraft to the Marine Corps."

The Marines who comprise the VMX-1 maintenance team have been learning and testing F-35B maintenance procedures for approximately two years. During the engine swap on America, the team spent a week on the initial swap, making sure to account and track for each step of the process by entering each maintenance step into the Autonomic Logistic Information System (ALIS) -- a system which gives the F-35 team the ability to plan ahead, maintain, and sustain aircraft subsystems over the life of the aircraft.

The maintainers performing the engine swap had little difficulty throughout the process, but he explained although the meticulous process of performing a maintenance step, stopping to catalog the process, and stopping again to train takes time -- it's what they do.

"We are a test squadron; that's what we are and what we do," said Marine Staff Sgt. Mark Veliz, a F-35B power line mechanic. "Taking a week to test an engine swap is how we find obstacles and how we fix them."

Tests such as an engine swap are important, as those involved with the F-35B learn more about the aircraft and its capabilities. Results from early tests allow those assessing the aircraft to make adjustments to improve the efficiency of such actions for fleet maintainers.

"Testing the ability to swap entire engines or engine components at sea is vital, as this is the last opportunity for the Marine Corps to perform these shipboard maintenance actions in a sterile test environment before they deploy with the F-35B in 2018," said Lt. Col. Richard Rusnok, VMX-1 F-35B det. officer-in-charge (OIC). "During this short-term deployment, the team not only proved the engine maintenance construct, but also gained critical hands-on experience dealing with the confined space and deck motion aboard ship -- something that cannot be replicated ashore. Ultimately, the success of this evolution was a team effort between Sailors, Marines, government civilians, and contractor personnel. Together we demonstrated the synergy of the entire team as we supported the F-35B at sea."

"My guys handled it well," Veliz agreed. "It's an engine we know we can handle no matter where we are."

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=97593

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2016, 06:53
by spazsinbad
USS America (LHA 6)
13 Nov 2016 NAVAiR

"America was illuminated by a supermoon as Air Department continued conducting flight operations into the night with the F-35B Joint Strike Fighters. It's the biggest, brightest supermoon in almost 70 years...."

Source: https://www.facebook.com/USSAmerica/pho ... =3&theater

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 01:48
by spazsinbad
LM F-35 GM Weekly Update
03 Nov 2016 Jeff Babione

"BF-1 and BF-5 landed aboard USS America (LHA-6) for the final SDD ship trials on Friday, beginning Developmental Test (DT) III. The team and aircraft went straight to work, swiftly completing all of the pilot carrier qualifications over the weekend as well as welcoming five other F-35Bs that joined the party. Three F-35Bs from the Operational Test (OT) squadron, VMX-1, and two F-35Bs from VMFA-211 were added to the flight deck to accomplish a variety of operational test and simulation objectives. With seven F-35Bs operating aboard USS America, this deployment represents the most to ever operate from an amphibious assault ship, topping the Marine Corps deployment of six during OT-1 in May of 2015.

"During the next three weeks, we will be completing critical flight test for both Developmental Test and Operational Test,” said Lt. Col. Tom "Sally" Fields, F-35 Pax River ITF Government Flight Test director assigned to VX-23. “The ITF and VX-23 will be conducting DT work that will establish the boundaries of safe operation for the F-35B in the 3F configuration. VMX-1 will be conducting OT operations focused on preparing maintenance crews and pilots for the first deployment of the F-35B aboard USS Wasp, scheduled to start in just over a year...."

Source: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... 1_3_16.pdf (0.8Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 02:15
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:
LM F-35 GM Weekly Update
03 Nov 2016 Jeff Babione

... snip ...

"During the next three weeks, we will be completing critical flight test for both Developmental Test and Operational Test,” said Lt. Col. Tom "Sally" Fields, F-35 Pax River ITF Government Flight Test director assigned to VX-23. “The ITF and VX-23 will be conducting DT work that will establish the boundaries of safe operation for the F-35B in the 3F configuration. VMX-1 will be conducting OT operations focused on preparing maintenance crews and pilots for the first deployment of the F-35B aboard USS Wasp, scheduled to start in just over a year...."

Source: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... 1_3_16.pdf (0.8Mb)


Does this mean at least some of these aircraft are flying with a 3F software load?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 02:48
by spazsinbad
The ITF & VX-23 test aircraft BF-01 & BF-05 have the test 3F software/hardware as required for testing on USS AMERICA. AND... long article by Megan Eckstein on previous page of this thread says this:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52450&p=355662&hilit=Eckstein#p355662
"...The developmental testers [ITF & VX-23] are using the 3F software that brings the plane to full warfighting capability, with full weapons and data link imagery capability. VMX-1 upgraded one of its planes to that 3F software version; two of its planes have the 3I software variant that included an upgraded integrated core processor, and two have the 2B software that the Marines declared IOC with, with initial warfighting capability and a more limited set of weapons...." https://news.usni.org/2016/11/07/marine ... operations

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 08:40
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:The ITF & VX-23 test aircraft BF-01 & BF-05 have the test 3F software/hardware as required for testing on USS AMERICA. AND... long article by Megan Eckstein on previous page of this thread says this:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52450&p=355662&hilit=Eckstein#p355662
"...The developmental testers [ITF & VX-23] are using the 3F software that brings the plane to full warfighting capability, with full weapons and data link imagery capability. VMX-1 upgraded one of its planes to that 3F software version; two of its planes have the 3I software variant that included an upgraded integrated core processor, and two have the 2B software that the Marines declared IOC with, with initial warfighting capability and a more limited set of weapons...." https://news.usni.org/2016/11/07/marine ... operations


....sadly the whiners are again slipping with the Bee flying 3-F, well before the end of SDD.....boo hoo! : :)

...where ever the Bee goes the Aay is close behind... :)

....have any of the 3-F external weapons been loaded in these photos of DT-III??.....
:wink:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 19:02
by zerion

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 19:36
by sferrin
bruh.jpg

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 21:10
by spazsinbad
ROCK & ROLL! Chain Chain Chain https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5781/306 ... eb_o_d.jpg (3.2Mb) & PLAYing AIR Guitar Again & LOPsided HOVER!: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/310 ... b8_o_d.jpg (0.63Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 21:19
by sferrin
Look at the nose gear in the high res version. Lot of flex there. (Not a bad thing necessarily, but I could see the basement dweller crowd flipping out.) Also see here at 2:53


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 21:28
by spazsinbad
That video is from Nov 2011. I believe the nosewheel flex has been remarked upon at that time. I do recall it being a topic on pPrune with a good answer from the knowledgeable 'ENGINES' then. (steel is strong - design good - gear OK!)

LOOK at the FLEX on nose gear - 7 degree roll at photo time - pilot engine running & MG & NG minimal chains brakes ON.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/310 ... 5f_o_d.jpg (3.5Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 22:04
by spazsinbad
Screenshot/time at second bounce from the 2011 video is below another new 2016 DT-III USN video aboard USS America.


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 22:17
by spazsinbad
:devil: Someone at least did not spell LIGHTENING but TRAILS? - PUHLEEZ LM stop employing PR DYSLEXIC NON SPELLERS! :doh:

https://www.f35.com/media/videos-detail ... ty-testing

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2016, 23:15
by spazsinbad
I've quickly searched pPRUNE for the 'ENGINES' (I think) post about the wobble but have run out of time for the moment.

MEANWHILE: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=274868&hilit=%27ENGINES%27+nose+gear#p274868
FOR: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... ost8455995
‘Engines’ 29 Apr 2014
"The landing gear layouts on the Harrier and the F-35 are fundamentally different, especially in the nose leg area. The Harrier has a 1950s style 'bicycle' or 'tandem' layout, & the weight of the aircraft is split almost 50/50 between the aft leg (we called the 'main') & the forward leg (which we called the 'nose leg').

What this meant for Harrier ski jump ops was that the front leg was fairly heavily loaded. We increased the liquid spring pressure for ski jump ops, and the limiting condition was to avoid total closure of the nose leg spring as it reached the end of the ski jump. (The leg started closing as it entered the ramp, & closed steadily as it approached the exit lip).

The F-35 has a more conventional 'tricycle' layout, with the two main gears taking around 90% of the load, the nose leg taking around 10%. The early checks on ski jump profiles & predicted launch speeds showed that the nose leg loads during ski jump launches were well within the highest design load, which was driven (I think) by vertical landings, with an arrival on the nose leg as the worst case, or with high lateral drift. The forthcoming tests at Pax will provide the real data."

Meanwhile a 'relaxed' nosewheel chained: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5758/310 ... cb_o_d.jpg (3Mb) & HOOK.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 02:23
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Can we talk about this picture for a moment?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5632/3075 ... cee8_k.jpg

STO with external weapons, first time I've seen it.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 02:48
by optimist
I would guess the side wobble is desirable to absorb the energy before it's transferred to the frame. It would be good to see a side shot, to see how much fore/aft wobble it has

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 02:49
by spazsinbad
First time you have seen that particular foto OR blah blah any external store STO foto? but anyway previously on DT-III for F-35Bs FOTO: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52450&p=355704&hilit=shipboard#p355704 WHAT IS INSIDE?

Image

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 03:46
by steve2267
Are those 500 lbers or 1000?

Do we know what, if any, internal load is?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 05:11
by zerion
steve2267 wrote:Are those 500 lbers or 1000?

Do we know what, if any, internal load is?


500s

Image

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 15:53
by steve2267
Thanks for the pointer on the external bombs being 500 lbers.

I was curious if anyone knew what the aircraft in that picture was carrying internally? Two AIM120s and two 1000 lbers? Or empty? I am guessing it is the former and kind of along the lines of a max STOVL takeoff from ship.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 17:20
by gabriele
What does the "guitar" in the photo of the hovering do?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 17:46
by steve2267
gabriele wrote:What does the "guitar" in the photo of the hovering do?


Haha. I had to go look back on page 3 to see to what you were referring. I'd like to know too. I thought it was a Kentucky long rifle in a soft case... :mrgreen:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 21:01
by spazsinbad
:devil: You will see many 'air guitars' - especially around the F-35C catapulting. These are noise measuring bits of equipment.


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 19 Nov 2016, 21:19
by gabriele
I suspected it might have to do with noise measurations, but since i couldn't quite recognize the thing, better to ask!
Thanks for the answer.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 19:48
by spazsinbad
Slideshow of appropriate photos: http://www.sldinfo.com/the-uss-america- ... way-ahead/
Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Testing
20 Nov 2016 SLDinfo

"2016-11-20 Currently, onboard the USS America, the USN-USMC team is validating the proof of concept of the Lightning Carrier, i.e., a large deck amphibious ship with combined F-35B and Osprey assault capabilities. The capability to insert ground forces and to support them with a 360 degree combat system overhead will prove to be significant in a wide range of contingencies.

A pressing one is to change the attack calculus against ISIS to provide for a very flexible, and unpredictable strike capability against ISIS without operating from ground or land-based air bases. It is a capability which can allow a national decision maker to strike with unpredictability from the sea, to insert force, strike, and return to the sea base.

And you can mix and match the force structure you want with regard to ground or air power. It does not require forward operating bases or airbases placed in the area of interest providing ISIS with targets on the ground....

...Twelve F-35B Lightning II’s [I think they mean AIRCRAFT but I COULD BE WRONG!] embarked on USS America (LHA 6) November 19, 2016. The demonstration is the first shipboard Marine Corps F-35B integration demonstration alongside other Marine Corps Air Combat Element assets...."

PHOTO: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 60x640.jpg (117Kb)

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/lightning-carrie ... t-testing/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 20:10
by quicksilver

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 20:24
by steve2267
Once the kinks have been worked out of EMALS, would there be any advantage for a Lightning Carrier along the lines of the America-class, to be able to EMALS launch a future version of the Bee but recover them with VL?

I'm thinking reduced deck space requirements for launch, heavier launch weights (i.e. more gas / bombs for the Bee), possibly higher launch tempo (if you could have a pair of EMALS catapults forward).

I thought the Brits had looked at EMALS for the Elizabeth-class, but don't know why they backed off.

While I don't think the Bee can be catapulted in it's present form, esp. off a steam catapult, I was thinking this might be doable with minimal modifications to a Bee given the 30% lower loads on an aircraft compared to steam catapults.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 20:28
by spazsinbad
Thank 'QS' I keep forgetting to look there. Attached is low qual video from URL (2nd Video reminds me of the song from THE TROGGS 'Wild Thing').

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 21:39
by spazsinbad
steve2267 wrote:Once the kinks have been worked out of EMALS, would there be any advantage for a Lightning Carrier along the lines of the America-class, to be able to EMALS launch a future version of the Bee but recover them with VL?

I'm thinking reduced deck space requirements for launch, heavier launch weights (i.e. more gas / bombs for the Bee), possibly higher launch tempo (if you could have a pair of EMALS catapults forward).

I thought the Brits had looked at EMALS for the Elizabeth-class, but don't know why they backed off.

While I don't think the Bee can be catapulted in it's present form, esp. off a steam catapult, I was thinking this might be doable with minimal modifications to a Bee given the 30% lower loads on an aircraft compared to steam catapults.

'steve2267' I would have to search back to approx. my first posts on this forum to find the discussion about this non-starting "catapult the F-35B" idea. We do not know under what circumstances - temp. & WOD at what all up weight a USMC F-35B can STO from a flat deck at what distance. However it does comply with the KPP Key Performance Parameter set by the program which is now 'full internal load at 600 feet' (used to be 550 feet but now more rounded out to 600).

Elsewhere we know from several quotes that the RN/RAF F-35B will be able to STO from approx. 850-900 feet give or take with what they call a full combat load which is described with external weapons - using the ski jump of course.

A very long thread about WHY the UK first required F-35Bs then did a sudden flop to the F-35C then quickly realised their error (a new UK guvmnt fckup) and flipped back to the F-35B for their CVFs is here: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969 UK MOD IN A MUDDLE

Methinks you misunderestimate the airframe strengthening and modifications required for an F-35B to be EMALSed or STEAMflung. And it is not necessary. You have forgotten that when the F-35B returns for a VL that is another KPP which requires full internal weapon load plus adequate fuel for a missed approach (in bad weather). Then an SRVL looms which cannot be done on an LHA & may never be carried out on a CVF - still early days on that but prospects look good for now.

:devil: May I suggest another PDF or 3? :doh: You will find them on previous mentioned websites under 'ski jump' etc. :shock: 8)

NEEDless to say there have been many discussions about WHY the USMC should have ski jumped also but THEY WON'T. :(

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 21:48
by spazsinbad
Another sound man screen grab recording 'wild thing' with his air guitar....

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 22:22
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:Methinks you misunderestimate the airframe strengthening and modifications required for an F-35B to be EMALSed or STEAMflung. And it is not necessary. You have forgotten that when the F-35B returns for a VL that is another KPP which requires full internal weapon load plus adequate fuel for a missed approach (in bad weather).


In my hypothetical musing, I was specifically ruling out STEAMflung. I was thinking that since EMAL is supposed to impose significantly less stress on the airframe, that the necessary modifications might be tolerable / minimal.

I saw two possible advantages:
  1. Increased payload
  2. Less deck space required for launch

I understand that it [EDIT: "it" meaning EMALS] is not necessary to meet established KPPs / requirements. Regarding the KPP of VL with max internal load only... well, if you EMALs with a full combat load then have to immediately return, it would be understood you have to dump stuff into the water prior to VL. Oh well.

I was more curious if the deck space regained by EMALS launch would support increased # aircraft aboard ship or increased launch tempo. That is, if EMALs only requires 300' rather than 600' for STO, could that extra 300' support additional aircraft, other operations, or increased launch tempo.

When USS America was being designed, was EMALS even a glimmer in the eyes of ship designers?

[ Edited: 20161120 @ 16:03 MST]

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 22:56
by spazsinbad
'steve2237' did you really mean to say this? "...I understand that it is not necessary to meet established KPPs / requirements..." You betcha it is required. However the KPP can be modified by a process that all agree upon. There is info on this forum and in my PDFs about how this particular F-35B STO for USMC was made so.

You can tell I'm reluctant to go over old ground when you need to read old material. The SKI JUMP is truly something for nothing with minimal deck space taken up forward. This has been explained by an OLD bold USMC Hairier Pilote named Art NALLS (search word). Helicopters can use the first part of the rising ski jump and a ski jump reduces STO distance, leaving deck space behind for Vertical landing ops if need be.

You seem to have ignored the fact that on CVF the F-35B can STO with the maximum load possible - no EMALS required.

And again: any extra added weight to make the F-35B EMALSable means that extra weight has to be subtracted from the VL bring back KPP. Why not keep the B as is and add a ski jump? The USMC state that a ski jump takes away helo spots from their main mission - so be it.

Do I need to do searchs? All these 'thought experiments' have been covered. An upgraded engine is in the works but how it may be applied to the B with minimal impact otherwise is has not been made known so far. Remember the B has not only the LiftFan but ducting for roll posts & rotating exhaust - how will they be impacted by an upgraded engine?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 23:04
by spazsinbad
The two DVID videos above concatenated here with WILD THING (Jimi Hendrix then original):


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 23:08
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:'steve2237' did you really mean to say this? "...I understand that it is not necessary to meet established KPPs / requirements..." You betcha it is required. However the KPP can be modified by a process that all agree upon. There is info on this forum and in my PDFs about how this particular F-35B STO for USMC was made so.

Yes and no. It depends on what "it" is. :mrgreen: What I meant was "I understand that EMALS is not required to meet requirements" for an F-35 to launch off of an LHA / CVN carrier. In my hypothetical, I was musing that EMALS would free up an additional 300' of deck space which could be used for other things, or to increase launch operations/tempo.
spazsinbad wrote:And again: any extra added weight to make the F-35B EMALSable means that extra weight has to be subtracted from the VL bring back KPP.

Good point.
spazsinbad wrote:Do I need to do searchs? All these 'thought experiments' have been covered. An upgraded engine is in the works but how it may be applied to the B with minimal impact otherwise is has not been made known so far. Remember the B has not only the LiftFan but ducting for roll posts & rotating exhaust - how will they be impacted by an upgraded engine?

Sorry for the musings. Thanks for the pointers to the old threads. More reading.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 00:48
by spazsinbad
OH NO NOT ANOTHER 152 PAGE PDF - this time about SKI JUMPs and BENEfits thereof with bits missing from 4.4Gb PDF.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 06:37
by spazsinbad
Marines Pound USS America’s Deck With F-35Bs: VIDEOS!
20 Nov 2016 Colin Clark

"ABOARD THE USS AMERICA: Somewhere near San Diego on the Pacific Ocean, the Marines have been putting F-35Bs and their pilots through a series of qualifications and tests with an eye to better understanding just how the small-deck carriers, the F-35s, V-22s and combat-ready Marines can best function together.

With a careful eye on both China and Russia, the Marines spent today (Sunday) executing what they are calling the Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demo....

...In an email to reporters, Capt. Sarah Burns said 12 F-35Bs from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 and Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron One (VMX-1), two MV-22B Ospreys, one UH-1Y Venom and one AH-1Z Viper took part. The Marines had never flown more than six F-35Bs from a ship before.

On top of that, 19 Marine pilots carrier qualified in the past three weeks. For perspective, eight Marine F-35B pilots carrier qualified over the last four years, Burns says. Before today’s proof of concept, seven F-35Bs from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 (VX-23) and VMX-1 and personnel from 12 agencies did this:
◾ First integration of ALIS SOU version 2 aboard a ship
◾ Removed and replaced the entire engine, drive shaft and lift fan of an F-35B over 12 days, including during heavy seas. The plane flew while we were there.
◾ First live ordnance operations aboard a ship
◾ First F-35B integration with AEGIS
◾ First integration with MV-22B Ospreys (2), a UH-1Y Venom and an AH-1Z Viper aboard a ship
◾ Block 3F software was flown aboard ship for the first time at sea.
◾ The first Royal Navy pilot was carrier qualified"

PHOTO: http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... 113128.jpg (0.5Mb)

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2016/11/mari ... bs-videos/


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 16:54
by SpudmanWP
In case you were wondering what SOU is.. here is an ALIS overview

Image


http://www.sae.org/events/dod/2015/atte ... _scott.pdf

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 17:25
by sferrin

[/quote]

Didn't realize they took 10 of them out there. Thought they were only sending 7. :drool:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 17:39
by SpudmanWP
They actually took 12. This was a follow-on "proof-of-concept" demo after DT-3.

This time they did a complete engine, lift fan, and driveshaft swap.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 18:42
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'SWP' - great explanatory PDF.
Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) Overview
09 Dec 2015 Scott LaChance, ALIS Chief Architect

"ALIS Integrated Services ALIS Is the Key Operations and Maintenance Management System

• Warfighter –Mission Planning, Scheduling, Qualifications

• Operations Management –Aircraft and Personnel Records, Maintenance Vehicle Interface, Tech Data, Support and Test Equipment, Low Observable Health, Work Orders

• Sustainment Support –24/7 Customer Support, Sustaining Engineering, Performance Based Logistics Management

ALIS Is an Integral Part of the Air System –Is NOT on the Air Vehicle"

Source: http://www.sae.org/events/dod/2015/atte ... _scott.pdf (0.45Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 19:38
by jessmo111


Didn't realize they took 10 of them out there. Thought they were only sending 7. :drool:[/quote]

The most ever on a ship.



https://youtu.be/AlS-wGunHzA

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 20:25
by spazsinbad
'jessmo111' was highlighting a video above from this URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlS-wGunHzA

To make video URL visual these [ ] things are added to text - the last ] will be left off so that the text string can be seen.

[youtube]AlS-wGunHzA[/youtube


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 21:47
by ngroot0
The 12 aircraft (F-35B) for the Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demo:
Code: Select all
BF-01            VX-23
BF-05    SD-65   VX-23
168312   MV-52   VMX-1
168717   MV-55   VMX-1
168718   MV-56   VMX-1
168732   CF-01   VMFA-211
168838   CF-02   VMFA-211
168839   CF-03   VMFA-211
168840   CF-04   VMFA-211 (BuNo from database)
169024   CF-06   VMFA-211
16....   CF-10   VMFA-211 (probably 169027 or 169026)
169028   CF-11   VMFA-211

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 04:52
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 04:57
by spazsinbad
F-35B Weapons Load Testing Wraps Up on USS America
21 Nov 2016 SEAPOWER

"PACIFIC OCEAN — The F-35B Lightning II third developmental test phase (DT-III) aboard amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) reached a new milestone as the program completed weapons load testing Nov. 16.

The Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF) assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 embarked America Oct. 28 with an aggressive test plan featuring a broad array of milestones, which included shipboard launch and recovery expansion test points focused on the evaluation of flying qualities at various aircraft weights, in particular in regard to crosswinds, sink rates, and high sea states. Additionally, the DT-III weapons team evaluated ordnance separation tests and live-fire tests.

“We’re here to augment the existing weight center of gravity effects of the aircraft to expand the fleet envelope wind over deck, and different lateral symmetry and asymmetry configurations,” said Gabriella Spehn, a F-35 weapons engineer from the Patuxent River Integrated Test Team (ITF).

The DT-III weapons team conducted the load tests on land prior to embarking on America. The team tested all of the takeoff and landing worst-case scenarios and endpoints.

“The only way to increase the endpoints is to test on board a ship for sink rates and high sea states, which is the next phase of testing after land-based testing is complete,” Spehn said. “There is no way to recreate the conditions that come with being out to sea.”

Although the tests are conducted to assess the limits of the aircraft, Spehn explained all tests are evaluated and conducted safely.

“We don’t just keep testing until something goes catastrophically wrong,” she said. “Each engineering discipline has to look back at the data we’ve collected after the most recent flight and completion of each test point, and then figure out if we feel comfortable proceeding to the next point.”

The F-35B DT-III pilots purposely conducted test flights under various unfavorable environmental conditions to test the aircraft’s limitations and capabilities.

“As we all know, we can’t choose the battle and the location of the battle, so sometimes we have to go into rough seas with heavy swells, heave, roll, pitch, and crosswinds,” said Royal Air Force Squadron Leader Andy Edgell, an F-35 test pilot embedded at the Patuxent River ITF. “The last couple of days we went and purposely found those nasty conditions and put the jets through those places, and the jet handled fantastically well. So now the external weapons testing should be able to give the fleet a clearance to carry weapons with the rough seas and rough conditions. We know the jet can handle it. A fleet clearance will come — then they can go forth and conduct battle in whatever environment.”

In preparation of DT-III load testing, America’s Weapons Department assembled two types of smart bombs. The team assembled 72 laser-guided GBU-12 and 40 satellite-guided GBU-32s for the first time in the ship’s short history....

[THEN DESCRIPTION ABOUT BOMB BUILDING ONBOARD FOR FIRST TIME]

...With the bombs built by America, the test pilots from Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron One from Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., conducted successful live-weapons tests for two consecutive days by dropping six GBU-12s on a live-weapons range in Yuma, Ariz."

Source: http://seapowermagazine.org/stories/20161121-f35b.html

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 19:00
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:


That is a cool video. At 0:40 in, during a STO you can see the F135 nozzle actively changing thrust vector angle. I was under the (obviously incorrect) assumption that the engine nozzle angle was "set" for either vertical, STO, or cruise. I know the engine nozzle swivels to make small corrections during VL operation, but thought incorrectly that it was "fixed" for STO operation. At that 0:40 mark, it appears to be swiveling a LOT more than anything I've seen in VL operations.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 19:08
by spazsinbad
Somewhere on the forum there are descriptions of what the nozzle is doing during an F-35B flat deck - and particularly a ski jump - STO. There are three modes of STO on a flat deck as I recall - I will have to find that info....

SKI JUMPY: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20138&p=347365&hilit=Rusnok#p347365

BEST Flat Deck Descripto: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=24438&p=274982&hilit=automated#p274982

SEARCH F-35 forum using this text string: International + Special + Edition + July

2 page PDF description of Flat Deck & Ski Jump STO attached now. + now COMPLETE article of 7 pages attached below also JUMPING JACK FLASH [is a gas]

from PDF mentioned here STO flat deck description:
Jumping Jack Flash
July 2014 unknown author AIR International F-35 Special Edition

"...There are three ways to conduct a short take off (STO) in the F-35B: stick STO, button STO – and auto STO. “That’s a completely automated way to STO the aircraft off the flight deck. You punch in a distance and the aircraft will auto rotate to its optimal fly-out condition. It’s all based on distance: we know where the aircraft is spotted [before it starts its take-off run] and where it should start its actual rotation,” explained Rusnok. “Unlike a Harrier, which launches off the end of the ship flat, the F-35 rotates at about 225 feet from the bow, sits on two wheels until it gets to the end of the ship and actually takes off, a much different process to a Harrier. From a pilot perspective, you lose some sight of the front of the ship; in a Harrier you can see all the deck. But that’s all part of optimising a 35,000lb aeroplane to get off the ship compared to the Harrier, which is only 16,000 to 25,000lb.”

With stick STO the pilot controls the take-off by pulling back on the stick, holding it there and then rotating to the optimal pitch angle to fly off. In button STO, the pilot uses a trim switch which rotates the aircraft when pushed in, activating it when the aircraft passes the yellow STO rotation line positioned 225 feet from the bow of the ship.

“That was a temporary marking applied on the flight deck for this trial and is now being permanently installed on the ship with lighting,” explained Rusnok. “It’s based on optimising the performance of the aircraft and its flying qualities, so we can get the aeroplane off with the maximum amount of nozzle clearance and performance. The STO line is our visual cue to either pull the stick aft or hit the button; or if you’re on automated STO you should start seeing the aeroplane’s flight controls moving by the line, otherwise the pilot can intervene and pull back on the stick. We’ve never had to intervene.” [joker]

The pilot also has command of the throttle. Two power setting options are available for take-off: Mil STO and Max STO [have not read about this before], as Maj Rusnok explained: “When you taxi to the tram line you stay in mode one, the conventional flight mode. You convert the aircraft into mode four, the STOVL flight mode, and it takes about 15 seconds or so for the doors to open up and the lift fan to engage.

“Then you push the throttle about halfway up the throttle slide into a detent position at about 34% engine thrust request. It sits there and you check the engine gauges: if the readings are okay you slam the throttle to either Mil or Max position and then release the brakes simultaneously. Pushing through to max is like an afterburner detent. But it’s not an afterburner – you can’t go to afterburner in mode four.

“It’s a very fast acceleration. The closest we would spot from the bow is 400 feet, so about 175 feet before we would actually start rotating the aeroplane [at the STO rotation line]; so very, very quick.”

One of the big test points for DT I was to ensure adequate nozzle clearance in all the different test conditions. The engine nozzle swings down and back up during the take-off in accordance with inputs from the aircraft control laws.

“It’s all automated,” said Rusnok. “The pilot is not in the loop whatsoever – either they’re pushing the button and letting the aeroplane do its own thing or pulling back on the stick to help it. Monitoring systems cue when something is wrong, so you have to rely on them to keep you safe because the flight controls are being moved unbelievably quickly.”

Maj Rusnok said the take-off was very much like that ashore, with very little sink off the end of the deck. “The aeroplane is ridiculously powerful in STOVL mode. Just raw, unadulterated power.”..."

Source: AIR International F-35 Special Edition July 2014

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 19:22
by krorvik
I noticed that rather noticable movement on the nozzle.... and as a systems consultant I have to say: Modern technology is cool!

(Edit: Or, in this case.... HOT!)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 20:04
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:
Jumping Jack Flash
July 2014 unknown author AIR International F-35 Special Edition
<snip>

The pilot also has command of the throttle. Two power setting options are available for take-off: Mil STO and Max STO
...

“Then you push the throttle about halfway up the throttle slide into a detent position at about 34% engine thrust request. It sits there and you check the engine gauges: if the readings are okay you slam the throttle to either Mil or Max position and then release the brakes simultaneously. Pushing through to max is like an afterburner detent. But it’s not an afterburner – you can’t go to afterburner in mode four.

<snip>

Source: AIR International F-35 Special Edition July 2014


I read an article in a PDF (found somewhere here on F-16.net) recently where a P&W Product Development Engineer remarked or explained that they run the turbine temperature up while in the dual-cycle STOVL mode. I would not be surprised if Mil STO power is just a max thrust option for the engine, but going to Max STO mode may trigger some engine control doofer to boost the turbine temp(s) to get that little bit of extra thrust. This also makes sense because in the same article (or another one I read at about the same time), P&W engineer or manager remarked that the F135 has been run out to 51,000 lbs of thrust while still meeting all engine requirements, but that they are running at 43,000 lbs to improve durability / engine life cycle costs. So it sounds like they have plenty of margin to temporarily boost power for a STO takeoff without adversely affecting durability / life of engine.

Here is the bit about the F-135 being capable of 51,000lbs in full reheat:
Powering the Lightning II
Chris Kjelgaard, date unknown
(p. 12)

P&W also won’t confirm the dry weight of the F135, but a source commenting on an aviation blog cites Warren Boley, president of Pratt & Whitney Military Engines, as saying the F135 weighs 1,500lb (680kg) more than the F119. This would put the F135’s dry weight at around 5,400lb (2,450kg). However, the F135 may have a higher thrust-to-weight ratio than
the F119 (the F119’s overall pressure ratio is 26:1 compared with the F135’s 28:1) and so the 5,400lb figure might be high. Boley has also suggested the F135 has an uninstalled wet thrust capability of approximately 51,000lb (226.86kN). If this reads across to an installed basis – in which bleed air and shaft horsepower would be extracted to power aircraft systems – it should provide a comfortable operating margin over the 43,000lb (119.27kN) of wet thrust required by the spec.

Source:http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=28256

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 20:07
by neptune
krorvik wrote:I noticed that rather noticable movement on the nozzle.... and as a systems consultant I have to say: Modern technology is cool!

(Edit: Or, in this case.... HOT!)


....having become rather "numb" to the many technological advances in this program an occasional "Slap in the Face" is still rather startling! The dynamics of that control system on the nozzle is "Shocking", pushing to get the airspeed for flight and then pushing and lifting to maintain the climb rate vs. load is indicating at least a half dozen control algorithms working together to "point" the nozzle for it's many requirements. That hydraulic system has a "huge amount" of work to perform in that short duration, way beyond the more static roles that I had failed to watch (OMG)! Once again I am over whelmed from where my cables and pulleys with electro-hydraulic assist (no computers) from the "olden dayz!" has now evolved.

Thanks for the video and the notice, better late than never! :oops:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2016, 21:00
by steve2267
For the technically inclined, an excellent description of the turbine cycle is described by Dr. Paul Bevilaqua, father of the F-35 LiftSystem:
The power produced by the turbine section of a turbojet engine is given by the equation

turbine power = (Mdot) (Cp) (T04) [ 1 - (P5/P4)^((g-1)/g) ] (1)

where Mdot is the mass flow through the turbine, Cp is the specific heat at constant pressure per unit mass of air, g is the gas constant, T04 is the stagnation temperature of the gas entering the turbine section, and P5/P4 is the pressure ratio across the turbine section. The usual method of increasing turbine power is by increasing the fuel flow, which increases T04. The additional power of the turbine accelerates the engine until the power absorbed by the compressor matches the power produced by the turbine and the engine speed stabilizes. Because the rotational speed of the engine has increased, the engine pumps more air and produces more thrust.

The performance map of the turbine section in a typical modern fighter engine is shown in Fig. 5. The locus of steady-state matching conditions defines the engine operating line, which is the diagonal running from the bottom left to the top right in the figure. The engine and compressor are designed so that the turbine power and compressor power match near the point of maximum efficiency at every speed. However, at maximum thrust, the turbine inlet temperature T04 is already at the material limit of the turbine section. As a result, the gas temperature cannot be increased to provide the power to drive the lift fan. Instead, during VTOL operation, the additional power to drive the lift fan is obtained by increasing the pressure drop across the turbine section, P4–P5. The additional power is shown by the two points in Fig. 5.

The lower point is on the conventional operating line, and the upper point is obtained when the pressure drop across the turbine is increased. In this case, nearly 30,000 hp can be extracted before the turbine section reaches its stall limit. There is enough residual power in the exhaust flow to generate significant thrust from the cruise nozzle during hover. Engaging the clutch while increasing the nozzle area transfers the additional power to the lift fan, so that the speed of the engine does not increase.

p.1828 of
Bevilaqua, Paul M. "Genesis of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter." AIAA Journal of Aicraft, Vol. 46, No.6, November-December 2009. pp. 1825-1836.

Source:
https://www.scribd.com/document/284662003/PaulB-F35
or
http://pdf.aiaa.org/getfile.cfm?urlX=-% ... 0%20%20%0A

Bevilaqua_Figure_5.JPG


If I am understanding what the P&W Engineering Manager stated (whose quote I cannot quite yet find), it sounds like P&W boosts turbine temperature (T04 in above equation), probably by increasing fuel flow, during STOVL operation to get that extra power for the Max STO throttle setting.

Also, I strongly suspect that the reason the exhaust temperature of the F-135 is only 4-500°F, rather than the misquoted 1700°F, in STOVL mode, is that when the LiftFan extracts that 30,000 SHP from the low pressure turbine, the extraction of all that energy reduces the F-135 exhaust temperature to the 4-500°F level. I say "suspect" because my thermodynamics sucks. I would love to hear a propulsion or thermo guy pipe in here and confirm my suspicion.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 00:28
by spazsinbad
Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants but why they would do this near ordinary concrete (which quotes that number) instead of for an engine run pad is beyond me. When I took the video lecture up with BillyBobBoySweetiePie on pPrune he said that Bevilaqua was using old figures in the video. AS IF! Here is the designer giving a lecture to his peers and 'fooling' them with 'old' figures. PULL THE OTHER ONE! Anyway it is obvious from countless VL videos now onboard that the deck crew remain about the same distance from the B model as the Hairier.

And yes there is a quote that the LiftFan sucking energy makes the exhaust cooler by about 300 degrees. Would anyone be surprised this stuff is scattered all over the F-35 forum and a lot of it is in the PDFs attached in this thread & elsewhere.
JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER Boeing X-32 - Lockheed Martin X-35
23 April 2001 Geoffrey Buescher

“...Lockheed Martin STOVL Lift Fan System
...Lift fan has two stages, pressure ratio of 2. Uses 27,000 – 28,000 hp from 70,000 – 80,000 produced by turbine.

• Using lift fan instead of hot flow reduces flow velocity by 30%, lowers [hot exhaust] temperature by 250 deg F; lift fan produces about 18,000 lb thrust. [approx. 600 - 250 = 350 deg F exhaust LiftFan as has been quoted about 300]

• Lift fan adds 4,000 lb to airframe, but lifting capacity of STOVL is increased by much more — claims of 60% above direct thrust approach. For CTOL and CV versions, extra space otherwise used for lift fan is used for fuel & avionics.

• Cold [350 deg F approx.] flow from lift fan protects inlet from hot gas ingestion...”

Source: http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason ... escher.pdf (0.7Mb)

Shipshape Amphibious ship upgrades vital to JSF and MV-22 deployments
13 OCT 2014 Michael Fahey; AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY; DEFENSE TECHNOLOGY INTERNATIONAL

"...The F-35B creates 10-20 sec. of thermal input - 400-500F exhaust - during landings, Navy documents show..."

Source: OCTOBER 13, 2014 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY








Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 01:06
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants.


Unless that's °C I'd be surprised if it was that low. The F110-129 is around 2000°F with the F100-229 being 3200°F. Seems unlikely that the F135 would have cooler exhaust than the -229. (See attached doc. pages 49 & 51).

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 01:28
by spazsinbad
As I said I'm only guessing - perhaps that 1,700 is for full power no afterburner? I really don't care because I'm only concerned with the STOVL functions and there are quotes about temperatures as noted above.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 02:11
by count_to_10
sferrin wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants.


Unless that's °C I'd be surprised if it was that low. The F110-129 is around 2000°F with the F100-229 being 3200°F. Seems unlikely that the F135 would have cooler exhaust than the -229. (See attached doc. pages 49 & 51).

Not that I have any info on this, but those temperatures seem more appropriate for the combustion chamber. 3200 F in particular is enough to melt steel and nickle.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 05:47
by sferrin
count_to_10 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants.


Unless that's °C I'd be surprised if it was that low. The F110-129 is around 2000°F with the F100-229 being 3200°F. Seems unlikely that the F135 would have cooler exhaust than the -229. (See attached doc. pages 49 & 51).

Not that I have any info on this, but those temperatures seem more appropriate for the combustion chamber. 3200 F in particular is enough to melt steel and nickle.


Go read the attachment. (Just for reference, the Shuttle SSME exhaust temp is over 6,000 degrees. That should give you enough of a hint.)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 07:20
by steve2267
sferrin wrote:Go read the attachment.

So I skimmed through the attachment, not quite sure for what I was looking... when on the 27th page I found depicted temperatures in the jet plume behind an F-15. Of particular interest is that at full military power the temperature of the jet exhaust (F-100-PW-229 ?) is 800°F.

Since we know that the F-135 is NOT in reheat in STOVL mode, and several references note a 250-350°F reduction in temperature from the extraction of power by the low pressure turbine to run the liftfan, and if we assume the exhaust temperature of the F-135 is on the order of the F-15's F-100 engine, then

800° - 300° = 500°F.

And 500°F +/- is exactly what is depicted in the first video to which spaz linked above:



To me, this first order analysis confirms that the exhaust temperature of the F-135 during STOVL operations is on the order of 500-600°F and not anywhere near 1700°F.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 11:54
by sferrin
steve2267 wrote:
sferrin wrote:Go read the attachment.

So I skimmed through the attachment, not quite sure for what I was looking...


Well in the case I was commenting on you'd be looking for exhaust temps. on the pages I mentioned. They'd show the figures I gave. And since it was in response to a comment regarding full afterburner temps were talking apples and oranges.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 12:19
by spazsinbad
Becuz we do not have an F-35B/C NATOPS weez will have to made do with an A4G tiedown graphic from NATOPS instead.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 19:26
by steve2267
sferrin wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants.


Unless that's °C I'd be surprised if it was that low. The F110-129 is around 2000°F with the F100-229 being 3200°F. Seems unlikely that the F135 would have cooler exhaust than the -229. (See attached doc. pages 49 & 51).


sferrin wrote:Well in the case I was commenting on you'd be looking for exhaust temps. on the pages I mentioned. They'd show the figures I gave. And since it was in response to a comment regarding full afterburner temps were talking apples and oranges.


Here is the attachment (again): R11 Segment 11.pdf

I found pp.49-51 of the attachment and created the following JPG of Military thrust exhaust temperatues below for comparison.

Exhaust temperatures immediately behind the engine:
  • F110-GE-100/129 - 900°F Mil (2000°F A/B)
  • F100-PW-200/220 - 800°FMil (3000°F A/B)
  • F100-PW-229 - 1000°FMil (3200°F A/B)

Again, with a stated reduction in exhaust temperature of around 300°F due to low-pressure turbine power extraction for liftfan operation, and with a bypass ratio stated as 0.57, it seems reasonable that the exhaust temperature of the F-135 in full military thrust is on the order of 800°F, so in STOVL mode, the main engine exhaust is around 500°F which is consistent with the video spaz posted and which I re-referenced.

I included the exhaust temperatures of the F-16 engines in full reheat above because that seems to be what "sferrin" is referring, but I don't understand the relevance of discussing A/B temperatures since the F-135 does not operate with reheat in STOVL (mode four) operation.

F-16_engine_exhaust_comparison.jpg

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 19:37
by spazsinbad
I'll look for a better example: F-35B Finger Four Formation: http://cdn.defenseone.com/media/img/upl ... -large.jpg

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2016, 20:16
by spazsinbad
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5504/308 ... f5_o_d.jpg (3.8Mb) 13 Nov 2016 INTERESTING COMMs setup?

With some 'assymetry' at DUSK: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5469/308 ... 34_o_d.jpg (4.7Mb) 13 Nov 2016

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 00:27
by sferrin
steve2267 wrote:I included the exhaust temperatures of the F-16 engines in full reheat above because that seems to be what "sferrin" is referring, but I don't understand the relevance of discussing A/B temperatures since the F-135 does not operate with reheat in STOVL (mode four) operation.


Jesus, this isn't rocket science. Somebody posited that the 1700 degree figure might be the F135 in afterburner. I was simply giving evidence that that was likely not the case. :bang:

"
spazsinbad wrote:Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants. . .

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 01:29
by steve2267
sferrin wrote:
steve2267 wrote:I included the exhaust temperatures of the F-16 engines in full reheat above because that seems to be what "sferrin" is referring, but I don't understand the relevance of discussing A/B temperatures since the F-135 does not operate with reheat in STOVL (mode four) operation.


Jesus, this isn't rocket science. Somebody posited that the 1700 degree figure might be the F135 in afterburner. I was simply giving evidence that that was likely not the case. :bang:

Actually, it is! :mrgreen:

What the engineers on the F-35 program are accomplishing is very much (very closely related to) rocket science.
spazsinbad wrote:Sadly the F-35B has been bashed with that 1,700 degree undefined 'wotisit' quote since 2010. I suspect but cannot prove it is the afterburner exhaust temperature for the A/C variants. . .


Actually, I strongly suspect that 1700°F may very well be the F-135 exhaust temperature in full reheat. Why? Several reasons:
  1. The F-100 afterburner exhaust is on the order of 3000°F with a bypass ratio of 0.36. The GE F-110, approximately a generation newer than the F-100, was on the order of 2000°F with a bypass ratio of 0.76. The F-135 is a generation or two newer than the F-110 with a bypass ratio of 0.57. Afterburner temperatures have been trending lower, and bypass ratio generally up from the F-100.
  2. People unfamiliar with the dual-cycle property of the F-135 engine seem to think that since the F-135 is producting nearly as much thrust in STOVL mode as it is in full reheat mode during conventional operation, it must be using the afterburner during STOVL operation. I strongly suspect somewhere along the way, someone found the F-135 afterburner listed at 1700°F and equated that with STOVL operation. I have no proof, just a strong hunch.
  3. In The F-35's Race Against Time by John A. Tirpak, pp.52-55, Air Force Magazine, Dec 2012, Lockheed Martin Vice President Stephen O’Bryan states (p. 54),
    ...while other secret techniques have been employed to combat and minimize the engine heat signature.

    “We had to deal with that, and we dealt with that,” O’Bryan said, declining to offer details.

    The F-35 meets or exceeds the services’ infrared signature specifications...

    Courtesy spaz: The F-35’s Race Against Time Nov2012pp7.pdf
    Found a PDF with pretty pictures:
  4. Recent threads regarding ADVENT / AEDT / AEDP engine programs discuss possible uses for a third stream of air, a "second bypass stream," including additional thrust by diverting that flow into the afterburner, or additional cooling. I posit that P&W has used at least a portion of the bypass stream of the "high bypass" F-135 for cooling in the engine nozzle, and that a 300°F reduction from the F-110 afterburner temperature is entirely possible, and probably probable given O'Bryan's statements about dealing with heat signature minimization.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 02:19
by spazsinbad
One of the Engyn Threads: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25691 :mrgreen: GOOD OLE BOY 'popcorn' :mrgreen: found a great LiftFan exhaust temperature quote on page 2 of this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25691&p=277314&hilit=Boeing#p277314
Winner Take All
"All the nail biting, second guessing, & sheer engineering brilliance in the battle to build the better Joint Strike Fighter."
Jan 2003 Evan Hadingham; Air & Space Magazine [OMG and all the great aviation journalists NEVER KNEW!] :devil:

"...As with the Harrier, the 1,350-degree heat of the Boeing airplane’s exhaust gases would pose a threat to the surface of carrier decks, if not to the life and limb of Navy crews (the downdraft from Lockheed’s lift fan was some 1,000 degrees cooler). Since Lockheed’s fan boosted engine thrust, its powerplant could run at lower temperature and with less strain, and these differences would translate into longer life. Most significant, assuming its reliability could be ensured, the lift fan would offer an extra margin of power and safety in a hover. In the end, that ensured Lockheed’s victory...."

Source: http://www.airspacemag.com/military-avi ... 86459/?all

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 03:05
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 03:31
by sferrin
steve2267 wrote:Actually, I strongly suspect that 1700°F may very well be the F-135 exhaust temperature in full reheat. Why? Several reasons:
[list=1]
[*] The F-100 afterburner exhaust is on the order of 3000°F with a bypass ratio of 0.36. The GE F-110, approximately a generation newer than the F-100, was on the order of 2000°F with a bypass ratio of 0.76. The F-135 is a generation or two newer than the F-110 with a bypass ratio of 0.57. Afterburner temperatures have been trending lower, and bypass ratio generally up from the F-100.


Uh, no. Compare the -220 and the -229. Night and day (with the much hotter -229 being the more advanced of the two). And engines don't burn cooler the more advanced they are, quite the opposite. The disparity between the -129 and -229 is because GE chose to move more air slower while the -229 moves less air faster. One isn't necessarily "more advanced" than the other.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 03:39
by sferrin
A couple of my favorites:

sdd_f35testa_001.jpg


sdd_f35testb_003.jpg

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 03:56
by steve2267
sferrin wrote:
steve2267 wrote:Actually, I strongly suspect that 1700°F may very well be the F-135 exhaust temperature in full reheat. Why? Several reasons:
[list=1]
[*] The F-100 afterburner exhaust is on the order of 3000°F with a bypass ratio of 0.36. The GE F-110, approximately a generation newer than the F-100, was on the order of 2000°F with a bypass ratio of 0.76. The F-135 is a generation or two newer than the F-110 with a bypass ratio of 0.57. Afterburner temperatures have been trending lower, and bypass ratio generally up from the F-100.


Uh, no. Compare the -220 and the -229. Night and day (with the much hotter -229 being the more advanced of the two). And engines don't burn cooler the more advanced they are, quite the opposite. The disparity between the -129 and -229 is because GE chose to move more air slower while the -229 moves less air faster. One isn't necessarily "more advanced" than the other.


You are correct. Perhaps I did not articulate my thoughts very well. Yes, the hotter you can make the combustors / turbine inlet temperature, the more power you can extract, the more efficient you can make the thermal cycle.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 09:05
by spazsinbad
F-35B Completes Weapons Load Testing at Sea
28 Nov 2016 Air Force Magazine

"​The vertical takeoff [WUT!? USAF HUH] version of the F-35 hit a major milestone in November, finishing weapons load testing at sea. An F-35B aboard the USS America went through “an aggressive test plan,” including shipboard launch and recovery expansion test points focused on different aircraft weights in flight, according to a Navy release. A weapons team conducted load tests on the F-35B on land, and then tested all takeoff and landing worst-case scenarios, the release states. Pilots conducted test flights in “unfavorable environmental conditions” to put the strike fighter through its paces. “We can't choose the battle and the location of the battle, so sometimes we have to go into rough seas with heavy swells, heave, roll, pitch, and crosswinds,” test pilot RAF Squadron Leader Andy Edgell, an F-35 test pilot embedded at the Pax River Integrated Test Force, said in the release. The test is a step toward F-35 crews getting clearance to carry weapons with rough seas and rough conditions. “We know the jet can handle it,” Edgell said."

PHOTO: "​Sailors prepare to equip an F-35B with inert 500-pound GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided test bombs during flight operations aboard the USS America. Navy photo by Petty Officer 3rd Class Kyle Goldberg." http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pu ... 8-0208.JPG (1.2Mb)


Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pa ... t-Sea.aspx

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 09:58
by mrigdon
It goes straight up in the air, then flies away and kills stuff. The Air Force TOOOOHLD ME!!!!

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 16:05
by spazsinbad
Over on previous page 'steve2267' posted an LM Utube video - it is available here also (and can be downloaded with YTD)

https://www.facebook.com/NAVAIR/videos/ ... 751521016/ (6Mb .MP4 Video from LM)

I like the air guitar guys. They work hard for the money....

https://www.facebook.com/USSAmerica/pho ... =3&theater

AND... As Of 21 Nov 2016 the claim is that USS America is F-35B CERTIFIED along with this photo below:

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t3 ... 2704_o.jpg (0.5Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 17:48
by old_rn
Sobering to think that USS America in this config out ranges USS Nimitz! :devil:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 19:15
by SpudmanWP
Since we are talking Block 3F (ie external stores), it would have been nice to see the gun pod at sea. :(

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Nov 2016, 21:43
by gabriele
Gun pod and AMRAAM are two rather eye-catching absences. If i'm not mistaken, the AMRAAM is never visible in any of the photos with the weapon bays open.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 04:27
by spazsinbad
I don't know about AMRAAMs for this test DT-III - they were in DT-II were they not?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 04:56
by count_to_10
sferrin wrote:
count_to_10 wrote:Not that I have any info on this, but those temperatures seem more appropriate for the combustion chamber. 3200 F in particular is enough to melt steel and nickle.


Go read the attachment. (Just for reference, the Shuttle SSME exhaust temp is over 6,000 degrees. That should give you enough of a hint.)

:doh:
My mistake -- I thought we were talking about non-afterburner temperature.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 05:12
by spazsinbad
Good Lad (whoever it is) looking at the Vertical Landing Aid whilst VLing ZOOMzoom: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 5/sizes/o/ (2.1Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 14:52
by spazsinbad
Better qual example of photo on previous page of this thread: http://www.combataircraft.net/wp-conten ... 24x663.jpg
Marine Corps' Proof of Concept Sea Trials [for dyslexics 'trails']
23 Nov 2016 Combat Aircraft

"Photo: Four F-35B Lightning II aircraft perform a flyover above the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) during the Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demonstration. LMCO/Andy Wolfe"

Source: http://www.combataircraft.net/2016/11/2 ... ea-trials/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 25 Nov 2016, 15:28
by spazsinbad
More on 'TIE [me kangaroo] DOWN [sport]' with relevant 12 PDF pages attached:
CVN FLIGHT/HANGAR DECK NATOPS MANUAL
15 Dec 2010 USN

"...2.8 HEAVY WEATHER AIRCRAFT SPOTTING
When a heavy weather spot requirement has been determined by the Commanding Officer, the ACHO [Aircraft Handling Officer] shall ensure the following:
1. A maximum number of aircraft shall be spotted on the hangar deck in such a manner to permit access to fire
stations at all times.
2. Remaining aircraft on the flight deck shall be spotted fore-and-aft as far from deck edge and the fantail as
possible and no farther forward than the bow JBDs.
3. The bow catapult JBDs shall be raised to assist in decreasing wind over deck.
4. Chocks shall be secured to wheels with 21-thread (or greater) manila line to prevent them from working free.
5. Maximum tiedowns shall be applied and parking brakes shall be set.
6. Deflating of struts and/or tires shall be accomplished as directed.
7. Fuel load adjustments shall be made as directed.
8. Aircraft integrity watches shall be doubled to function as two-man teams (buddy system).
/////////////////////Note
During heavy weather, aircraft integrity watches shall not venture onto
the flight deck without permission from the ACHO or his representative."

Source: http://info.publicintelligence.net/USNa ... htDeck.pdf (2.1Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 04:50
by spazsinbad
Screenshot of an Italian Observer BigWig on the Goofers - they'll be up with the Bs soon I guess....


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 26 Nov 2016, 20:32
by spazsinbad
SEGUE... talking about concrete on previous page brings to light how important it is to US Military overall.
Concrete may just be the most important weapon in modern warfare
24 Nov 2016 Leo Shane III

"Forget MRAPs, Predator drones or even the M16. Concrete has become the most effective weapon of the modern battlefield, according to one scholar at West Point’s Modern War Institute....

ORIGIN: http://mwi.usma.edu/effective-weapon-mo ... -concrete/

...No other weapon or technology has done more to contribute to achieving strategic goals of providing security, protecting populations, establishing stability, and eliminating terrorist threats.”...

...But the heavy use of concrete also come with questions about how seriously the military has looked at supplies and costs of the product...."

Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/w ... te-weapons

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 02:21
by spazsinbad
Regardng missile testing....
FY 15 DOD PROGRAMS F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)
Dec 2015 DOT&E

"...Air-Ship Integration and Ship Suitability Testing page 74
F-35B
"... ▪ The [F-35B test] aircraft did not have the appropriate flight clearances to carry or employ any ordnance. Ordnance
evolutions were limited to maintainers uploading and downloading inert bombs and missiles on the flight deck...."

page 76
"... - Ordnance evolutions included uploading and downloading of inert AIM-120 missiles, and GBU-12 500-pound laser
guided and GBU-32 1,000-pound Global Positioning System-guided bombs...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... Report.pdf (0.35Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 07:36
by spazsinbad
UhOh More Chains....
AIRMAN NAVEDTRA 14014
Jul 2000 USN

“...When the ship is not at flight quarters or during heavy weather conditions, the Air Department is required to maintain a security/integrity watch on the flight deck and hangar deck to ensure that each aircraft remains properly secured. The watch must be especially alert for loose or broken jury struts, tie-downs, battens, chocks, engine intake/exhaust and canopy covers, any leakage, or hazardous conditions. Extreme caution is necessary when you handle aircraft in heavy weather....”

Source: https://www.usna.edu/Training/_files/do ... Airman.pdf (10.5Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 12:35
by count_to_10
There is something I don't get about the way the F-35B takes off from one of these ships -- why do they rotate on the deck instead of rolling off and then pulling up? It seems like they are wasting deck space, so there must be some reason I'm just not seeing.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 14:37
by quicksilver
In simple terms, by the time the jet reaches the end of the deck, it has to achieve an expected end-speed while generating the necessary combination of lift from traditional aerodynamic surfaces and the propulsion system that allow it to fly without exceeding the limits for maximum sink rate off the bow. You'll notice there is time necessary to pitch the jet to the required/desired AoA, and during that time there is still substantial weight on the MLG (although in the CQ periods, it looks like they are working with some excess end-speed because you can see a little daylight under the MLG at bow exit).

For STOVL aircraft, there are also significant differences in the pitching moments generated over a hard surface in comparison to what occurs in free air (off the front of the deck). Managing stability and control within the bandwidth they have available in those circumstances are also prime considerations.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 16:12
by spazsinbad
On Page 6 this thread how Rusnok describes STO onboard: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52450&p=356752&hilit=Rusnok#p356752
"...There are three ways to conduct a short take off (STO) in the F-35B: stick STO, button STO – and auto STO. “That’s a completely automated way to STO the aircraft off the flight deck. You punch in a distance and the aircraft will auto rotate to its optimal fly-out condition. It’s all based on distance: we know where the aircraft is spotted [before it starts its take-off run] and where it should start its actual rotation,” explained Rusnok. “Unlike a Harrier, which launches off the end of the ship flat, the F-35 rotates at about 225 feet from the bow, sits on two wheels until it gets to the end of the ship and actually takes off, a much different process to a Harrier. From a pilot perspective, you lose some sight of the front of the ship; in a Harrier you can see all the deck. But that’s all part of optimising a 35,000lb aeroplane to get off the ship compared to the Harrier, which is only 16,000 to 25,000lb.”

With stick STO the pilot controls the take-off by pulling back on the stick, holding it there and then rotating to the optimal pitch angle to fly off. In button STO, the pilot uses a trim switch which rotates the aircraft when pushed in, activating it when the aircraft passes the yellow STO rotation line positioned 225 feet from the bow of the ship.

“That was a temporary marking applied on the flight deck for this trial and is now being permanently installed on the ship with lighting,” explained Rusnok. “It’s based on optimising the performance of the aircraft and its flying qualities, so we can get the aeroplane off with the maximum amount of nozzle clearance and performance. The STO line is our visual cue to either pull the stick aft or hit the button; or if you’re on automated STO you should start seeing the aeroplane’s flight controls moving by the line, otherwise the pilot can intervene and pull back on the stick. We’ve never had to intervene.”...

...The closest we would spot from the bow is 400 feet, so about 175 feet before we would actually start rotating the aeroplane [at the STO rotation line]; so very, very quick.”

One of the big test points for DT I was to ensure adequate nozzle clearance in all the different test conditions. The engine nozzle swings down and back up during the take-off in accordance with inputs from the aircraft control laws.

“It’s all automated,” said Rusnok. “The pilot is not in the loop whatsoever – either they’re pushing the button and letting the aeroplane do its own thing or pulling back on the stick to help it. Monitoring systems cue when something is wrong, so you have to rely on them to keep you safe because the flight controls are being moved unbelievably quickly.”

Maj Rusnok said the take-off was very much like that ashore, with very little sink off the end of the deck...."

Also a new feature may be noticed during F-35B STOs:
VX-23 Strike Test News 2014
02 Sep 2014 VX-23

"...Centerline tracking during short takeoffs (STOs) was drastically improved with the combination of an improved NWS schedule and the use of the Three-Bearing Swivel Nozzle (3BSN) for yaw control...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... oad&id=820

NOT only But ALso.... These quotes would be on the forum in places various - search on human names for efficient search.
Navy Sees Few Anomalies in F-35B Ship Trials
31 Oct 2011 Amy Butler

"...Though vertical landings are quite similar to those of the Harrier, the STO operations do vary for the F-35 owing to the
different lift qualities of the F-35s’ stealthy, supersonic-capable design. For testing on the Wasp, the nozzles and control surfaces actuate with 225 ft. of runway remaining on deck, creating an angle of attack and allowing for the wings to produce enough lift for takeoff from the deck, [Marine Corps Col. Roger] Cordell says. The Harrier’s rotation line is at the bow, owing to its wing design creating the required lift without the corresponding angle-of-attack change. Cordell says that the testing equipment at the ship’s bow has also not detected any problems with the F-35’s nozzle clearance as it takes off...."

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... avy&next=0

And again from our resident STOVL expert 'quicksilver':
"The nozzle is angled down to ensure directional control (via NWS) is maintained during the takeoff roll until rotation. You should also note that the nozzle rotates upward momentarily at the point where the takeoff rotation occurs. Such movement instantaneously alters the vertical component of lift between the lift fan and the main engine exhaust thereby contributing to the pitch rotation."

Source: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=25401&p=269833&hilit=rotation#p269833

AND...
[3] F-35 IN DEVELOPMENT
01 May 2010 Greg Goebel

"...The "smarts" of the F-35 will be particularly appreciated by pilots flying the F-35B STOVL version. Short takeoffs in the Harrier are a troublesome affair that require the pilot to have "three hands": one for the throttle, one for the stick, and the third for the lever that controls the direction of the Harrier's swiveling exhaust nozzles. An F-35B pilot, in contrast, flies the plane with stick and throttle, with the software handling the fine details of short takeoff: the pilot will simply press a "button" on the PCD to con-vert from vertical to forward flight or the reverse.

While the Harrier has reaction control thrusters driven by engine bleed to provide low-speed maneuverability, the F-35B simply modulates the four points of its vertical-lift system -- the pivoting exhaust, the two wing exhaust ducts, and the lift fan -- to provide control. This trick would be difficult or impossible to do manually....”

Source: http://www.vectorsite.net/avf35.html

An OLDie but Goldie X-35Bie...
THE JSF STOVL [X-35B] PERFORMANCE PROCESS FROM SMALL-SCALE DATABASE TO FLIGHT TEST DEMONSTRATION
Nov 2002 Kevin M. McCarthy, JSF Program Office/Naval Air Systems Command

“...The STO deck run starts at brake release, which typically occurs at the maximum thrust that the brakes can hold. This is an input. The engine spool-up characteristics from this throttle setting to maximum power are considered during the acceleration portion of the deck run. Weight on main and nose gear is calculated, and must be monitored to maintain adequate deck handling characteristics....

...STO demonstrations were a critical aspect of the flight test program as well. The X-35B performed two different technique STOs; 1) fixed nozzle and 2) auto-STOs. The fixed nozzle STOs are self-explanatory, and were used for the initial flight test STO maneuvers. For these maneuvers, the demonstrated performance was very consistent with predicted levels. The flight test auto-STOs featured a deck run nozzle angle (34/28 fan/main) and flyaway nozzle angle between 40/40 and 60/60, depending on aircraft weight. The auto-rotation was pilot actuated at the desired rotation speed....”

Source: http://pdf.aiaa.org/downloads/2002/CDRe ... 274d1857TR (1.7Mb PDF)

UhOh Agin...
VX-23 2015 STRIKE TEST NEWS
07 Sep 2015 Maj M. Andrew “Tac” Tacquard

",,,F-35[B] Short Takeoff & Vertical Landing (STOVL) Mode-
The F-35B team continued to expand the STOVL envelope last year in the clean wing configuration and with symmetric and asymmetric external stores. The process began with flying qualities testing in semi-jet, short takeoff, and jet borne modes to clear the aircraft for takeoff and landings. The team completed testing at airspeeds as low as 70 knots with 24,000 lb of asymmetry and jet borne with 10,000 lb of asymmetry. Next year, the team will feature jet borne testing to 19,000 lb of asymmetry.

Flying qualities during asymmetric testing were nearly identical to symmetric testing from the pilot’s perspective...."

Source: http://issuu.com/nawcad_pao/docs/striketest2015_single

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 17:51
by spazsinbad
AhHah - found the 'Engines' nosewheel tyre wobble quote....
F-35B STOVL
02 Jun 2012 ‘Engines’(name supplied on request)

“The UK F-35B is required, and is perfectly able to, use a 'STO' technique to get airborne. The pilot will select 'powered lift' mode before it starts its take off run, & the aircraft will be partially jet borne & partially wing borne when it leaves the ramp. At the appropriate point as it flies away, the pilot selects back into 'conventional flight' mode.

The landing gear is fine. What you see on the video is the tyre flexing. The Harrier nose leg was massive because it was a 'bicycle' gear layout with the nose wheel taking around 50% of the weight of the aircraft. The F-35 has a conventional gear, with the front leg taking around 10% of the load. Oh, and I can testify that Harrier landing gears (outriggers & nose legs both) flexed plenty during deck ops. Stopped them breaking."

Source: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... 5b-51.html

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2016, 23:05
by spazsinbad
Many bomb photos in this article.... CHAINS & Bombs & Planes wot more could youse ask for?! :devil:
F-35B Completes DT-III on USS America
27 Nov 2016 Todd Miller

"...Pilots, engineers, maintainers and personnel from VX-23 (Air Test and Evaluation Squadron) of NAS Patuxent River, MD flew across the country with their two heavily instrumented F-35Bs for the shipboard DT-III late October through November 17, 2016.

They were joined by aircraft and personnel from VMX-1 (Marine Operational Test and Evaluation squadron) to support the maintenance phase of DT-III.

VMX-1 also participated in operational activity in preparation for the F-35Bs first shipborne deployment in about a year.

DT-III evaluated and validated the Short Take-off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) performance of the F-35B in high sea states, with full weapons loads (external & internal), with asymmetric loading (including taking off with a full load of externals, jettisoning one side and landing), live weapons and night operations.

Onboard maintenance activities involved the entire replacement of an engine, driveshaft and lift fan on one of the VMX-1 aircraft. After replacement, the VMX-1 aircraft was flown off the deck.

USMC VMX-1 Commanding Officer, Col. George “Sack” Rowell, noted that the F-35B will equal or exceed the shipborne operational capabilities of the AV-8B Harrier in high sea states. Flight operations took place in winds of up to 47 knots from various angles, a deck roll of 5° and deck pitch of 3°. Maintenance work was accomplished (albeit with challenges) while the ship was rolling 9°!

DT-III was a great success achieving primary DT-III flight test points as well as numerous additional milestones for the F-35B
• Shipborne integration of Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) V.2
• Engine, driveshaft and lift fan removal and replacement aboard a L-Class ship
• Live ordnance operations with the F-35B aboard a ship (from ship to MCAS Yuma Range)
• F-35B integration with USN AEGIS validated
• Operational Test aircraft flew Block 3F software at-sea
• 1st Royal Navy pilot F-35B carrier qualified
• Joint Precision Approach and Landing System (JPALS) utilized for shipborne landing
• Use of night vision goggles (NVG) for landing [WUT?! I think HMDS III is meant but who can know - I wasn't there]

[ADDITION] GEEBUS Journalists are dangerous and incompetent - this is the text from 'bring_it_on' PDF from next page of this thread: "...DT-3 Accomplishments Developmental Test Points • Night Vision Camera (NVC)"

Source: https://www.scribd.com/presentation/332 ... 232016-jsf (PDF 0.4Mb)


• Link-16 Integration with a variety of aircraft..."

PHOTO: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 60x640.jpg
& http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 60x640.jpg

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/f-35b-completes- ... s-america/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 00:40
by spazsinbad
Video on VIMEO: https://vimeo.com/193148172 LOWest Quality Video attached below.... same same Utube now. LOOK! how close the chaps are during the VL! with deck moving during the first STO and when chained later.


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 19:42
by bring_it_on

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 20:14
by spazsinbad
Many thanks 'bring_it_on' for the PDF which clears up the 'night vision goggle' testing SNAFU text on previous page which was actually NIGHT VISION CAMERA testing for the HMDS III which is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT concept. FFsake! SLDinfo.
"...Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept
• 3 days
• 12 F-35, 2 MV-22, 1 UH-1Y, 1 AH-1Z"

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 22:01
by botsing
spazsinbad wrote:Video on VIMEO: https://vimeo.com/193148172 LOWest Quality Video attached below.... same same Utube now. LOOK! how close the chaps are during the VL! with deck moving during the first STO and when chained later.


Nice video!

0:44 Interesting: do the outer pylons point more upwards?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 22:58
by spazsinbad
Camera Lens play tricks & I have no idea about question. There are a few head on shots with minimal distortion of the various variations with pylons - you would have to look at them OR have a precise plan view drawing with pylons shown.

You can look for photos yourself and it should be obvious how perspective is distorted by cameras. Under an F-35C 'in close/at the ramp' shows some distortion front to back & sideways. A plan view drawing of situation is best bet I reckon.

THIS F-35C Album has a bunch of weapon / pylon / perspective photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 032078180/
__________________________________________

EXAMPLE BELOW (cropped)
818807.jpg (0.6Mb) [NOW 1st PHOTO BELOW]

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/2818807/ ... washington

https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/2818807 (JPG 0.6Mb)
_____________________________________________________

OR

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 446446264/

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8631/290 ... ff_o_d.jpg (1.4Mb) [NOW 2nd PHOTO BELOW]

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 18:24
by botsing
Thank you for your reply and the pictures spazsinbad, it is pretty hard to see from the bottom.

I took a screenshot from that video:
F35.jpg

Maybe it is indeed a lens trick, though if not it might have something to do with air streams when the weapon are released and/or in-flight aerodynamics?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 18:47
by spazsinbad
'botsing' perhaps you do not understand what I wrote. Lens distortion is real. In the screenshot you provide above you see that perspective distortion. The under shots of the F-35C are MUCH LESS distorted but comparatively slightly distorted; because, for one, they are not truly underneath as a PLAN (with no lens/perspective distortion) drawing would show. There is also slight distortion from front to back. Perspective distortion cannot be helped - unless special cameras are used while the aircraft is suspended directly above the special camera lens.

The weapon pylons are fixed as shown. I believe they align with something but cannot prove it just by a photo. Try proving your case. There are plenty of those front on 'distorted' photos - usually with an array of weapons, some carried on pylons.

Various lens have different names for good reason - their properties vary quite a lot - with often dramatic effect on the subject matter. Look at the 'under' original photos before they were ZOOMed as seen above for better 'perspective'.

Have lost the URL for moment of the UNDER F-35C photos however the compilation below shows the two originals and how the perspective is distorted. I zoomed in and rotated slightly both photos but did not otherwise correct distortion.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 20:10
by sferrin
They're not pointed out, they're pointed in :P :

toe.jpg


(Actually, I think they're pretty close to parallel with the centerline.)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 20:16
by spazsinbad
Good illustration of opposite effect from rear/under perspective (lens unknown). Yes how exactly are the pylons aligned - only the SHADOW knows - aligned with fuselage (what part?) or aligned with airflow? The beat goes on.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 20:53
by KamenRiderBlade
Aren't the pylons straight on, parallel to the centerline body of the aircraft?

Isn't there lens distortion on the photographer's camera?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 21:03
by mrigdon
KamenRiderBlade wrote:Aren't the pylons straight on, parallel to the centerline body of the aircraft?

Isn't there lens distortion on the photographer's camera?


Most lenses introduce some sort of distortion, but when it comes to the final image it depends to some degree on the processing done. Programs like Lightroom and Capture One include automatic corrections for lenses to compensate for these distortions. One way to tell would be to check the EXIF data and if that's been stripped out, you'd have to actually reach out to the photographer, assuming he did the final processing.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 21:06
by sprstdlyscottsmn
The question wasn't about toe-in vs toe-out, it was toe-up vs toe-down in the vertical axis.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 21:21
by neptune
botsing wrote:Thank you for your reply and the pictures spazsinbad, it is pretty hard to see from the bottom.

I took a screenshot from that video:
F35.jpg

Maybe it is indeed a lens trick, though if not it might have something to do with air streams when the weapon are released and/or in-flight aerodynamics?


....and where are the AIM-9 rails?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 00:02
by botsing
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:The question wasn't about toe-in vs toe-out, it was toe-up vs toe-down in the vertical axis.

This indeed, I could already not place why there were picture shown from the bottom where this would be the least visible.

F35_loaded.jpg

I have drawn some lines to see where the angles meet. If there was an uniform lens distortion they would all meet in the same place on the horizon, which they don't. So either it is a non uniform distortion or there is a toe-up/down (caster) difference in the vertical axis between the pylons.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 00:46
by count_to_10
The Sidewinders on the outer pylons always seemed toed noticeably downward to me.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 01:13
by SpudmanWP
Lens distortion makes it look like the pylons are canted outwards like the Superhornet, but they are not.

You are correct that the three pylons are angled up/down at different angles. The inner pylon is relatively parallel to the deck, the outer pylon is angled up a little bit and the far outer A2A pylon is angled down.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 01:32
by Dragon029
Image

Image

Image

Naturally they'd be angled differently for safe separation, the outer pylons being pointed down so much due to the expectation that they'll be getting launched at higher angles of attack, the inner / mid pylons being angled just to account for the different air pressure / direction of flow around the fuselage / wing.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 02:21
by gc
Frontal shots have to be made at a decent distance with zoom lens to give an accurate view of the pylons.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 02:23
by gc
Check this deck roll angle out.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 03:08
by spazsinbad
At Last! PEEPs talking sense! :mrgreen: COOL.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 14:14
by botsing
Dragon029 wrote:Naturally they'd be angled differently for safe separation, the outer pylons being pointed down so much due to the expectation that they'll be getting launched at higher angles of attack, the inner / mid pylons being angled just to account for the different air pressure / direction of flow around the fuselage / wing.

Thank you for this explanation Dragon029!


spazsinbad wrote:At Last! PEEPs talking sense! :mrgreen: COOL.

Sorry for the confusion spazsinbad. :mrgreen:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 14:34
by spazsinbad
'botsing' my apologies. "0:44 Interesting: do the outer pylons point more upwards?" I completely misread your question.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 16:36
by bring_it_on
Marines complete third and final F-35B development test at sea

ABOARD THE USS AMERICA (LHA-6) -- The Marine Corps recently completed the third and final developmental test of the F-35B at sea that included the first integration of the logistics system, integration with the Aegis Combat System, live ordnance and night vision camera operations.

Col. George "Sack" Rowell, Marine Operational Test and Evaluation One (VMX-1) commander, told reporters here Nov. 19 there were seven F-35B short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing jets on the ship for DT-3.

The focus of the test was on envelope expansion in a heavy sea state, asymmetric loading of an aircraft, live ordnance loading, Link 16 integration and testing the Joint Precision and Landing System, he continued.

The November test period was the first time the service used the Autonomic Logistics Information System Squadron Operating Unit Version 2 (SOUv2) at sea. During the first F-35B operations test the Marines used SOUv1, which is a more permanent version of the system.

"SOUv2 is essentially a repackaged modular version of the SOUv1 that comes in ruggedized cases and allows us to not only install it on [a] ship's preconfigured racks for seaworthiness but also to move the system ashore into an expeditionary environment if required," Lt. Col. Richard "BC" Rusnok, a VMX-1 pilot told Inside the Navy in August. Rusnok will be the commander of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron-121, which is the first unit to deploy with the F-35B.

The Marine Corps demonstrated the use of SOUv2 on land during exercise Steel Knight in December 2015. Having tested the system on land and at-sea allows the service to identify any issues before the first scheduled fleet deployment in 2018.

DT-3 was also the first time the F-35B was integrated with Aegis. In September, the jet successfully detected and engaged a target link with Aegis on the Desert Ship (LLS-1) at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. This is part of the Navy's existing Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air architecture and will extend the service's range.

"What I can tell you is we were able to talk electronically to the Aegis Combat System, pump that data from the end-to-end sensor into their system, engage and therefore target successfully," Rowell said. "When I say engage successfully, it was metal-on-metal engagement from a significant range . . . it was a very, very impressive shot to see."

At sea the F-35B was able to take advantage of other exercises occurring off the coast of California and plugged into Aegis systems that were afloat, he continued.

"A lot of that was to verify that the message tracking passed through the Link 16 system [and the jet] is reading properly through our aircraft and their systems," Rowell said.

Lt. Col. Chad "Mo" Vaughn, VMFA-211 commander, told reporters at the end of January and in early February an exercise called Agile Lightning will leverage testing the F-35B has conducted with Aegis.

The exercise will take place along the West Coast and the Marine Corps will use the Bunker Hill (CG-52), which is an Aegis-capable ship.


"We're going to use some additional assets from VMX-1, we're going to use V-22s from there as well as F-18s from [Marine Aircraft Group]-11in Miramar," Vaughn said.

Rowell said this is part of the process of marking what will become standard when operating the F-35B.

For two days in a row during DT-3 the Marine Corps launched a jet with live ordnance off the ship. The F-35B then flew to the ranges at Yuma, AZ, dropped ordnance, and then returned to the ship, according to Rowell.

Another first for the F-35B during DT-3 was pulling an engine, lift fan and drive shaft out of the same aircraft and reinstalling the parts. Rowell said it took the Marines about 12 days to complete the task but anticipates his team can perform the same fix in four days.


http://insidedefense.com/daily-news/mar ... t-test-sea

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 18:08
by KamenRiderBlade

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 19:53
by spazsinbad
'bring_it_on' thanks for the 'InsideDefence' article. What bugs me is that for such an expensive subscription that website often provides poor information. For example there is no mention of "Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demonstration". However I will concede perhaps that demo is highlighted in another article from 'InsideDefence'?

AND... a good video above from LM about it all (no mention of LCPofCD - but hey that is USMC). :mrgreen:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 02:54
by spazsinbad
On page 2 of this thread - amongst the chains - is a dramatic photo of the up/down nature of external weapon pointings.

download/file.php?id=23727&mode=view

Image

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 03:57
by spazsinbad
Below are two bomb screenshots from the F-35C DT-III Aug 2016 'wrap' video. The gunpod is seen in the video also.


Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 08:31
by spazsinbad
More happy trails... LONG ARTICLE best read at source if'n youse are interested.
For the First Time Ever, the F-35B Takes-Off at Sea With Full Weapons Load and Drops Live-Bombs
30 Nov 2016 Kris Osborn

"The Marine Corps F-35B Short-Take-Off-and-Vertical-Landing Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter took off from a Navy amphibious assault ship for the first time with a full load of weapons — in preparation for its planned deployment in 2018.

The aircraft flew from the Navy’s first America-Class Amphibious Assault Ship, the USS America, to Yuma Proving Grounds, Ariz., where it dropped live precision guided weapons on mock targets in the desert.

The F-35B dropped laser-guided GBU 12s and satellite-guided GBU 32s as part of the exercise; the ordance team aboard the USS America assembled 72-GBU 12s and 40-GBU 32s aboar the ship, Marine Corps officials said.

“Laser-guided bomb (LGB) kits consist of a computer control group and air foil group normally attached to a general-purpose bomb to form an LGB. The dual mode, laser-guided kit enhances existing LGB kits by adding GPS/inertial navigation system capabilities,” a Navy statement from Chief Petty Officer John Scorza said....

...DT-III was also the first time an operational F-35B took off with the latest Block 3F software at sea, and involved the first qualification of a British Royal Navy F-35B.

F-35B Will Change Tactics and Procedures on Amphibs:
Part of the challenge to F-35B integration is recognizing how its technologies will change concepts of operations, tactics and procedures; the F-35B is a very different aircraft than the Harrier jets it is replacing, Navy officials said.

Harrier jets, which also have the ability to conduct vertical take-off-and-landings, are multi-role jets primarily designed for light attack missions – such as quickly flying over land locations where Marines are forward deployed and providing close air support.

While the F-35B can perform these missions as well, the new Joint Strike Fighter brings a wide range of new sensors, weaponry and aviation technology to the Corps....

...Thus far, the Navy and Marine Corps have made progress with a series of extensive preparations on board amphibious assault ships in order to ensure that their flight decks, sensors and weapons systems can accommodate the first ever deployment of the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter slated for 2018.

The Marine Corps short-take-off-and-landing variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, the F-35B, could be the first ever fifth-generation aircraft in the world to deploy when they serve on board several amphibs in 2018, Marine Corps and Navy leaders told Scout Warrior.

The technological modifications are already complete on the USS Wasp, an operational Navy amphib; they are also operational aboard the USS America while also being built into the USS Tripoli, Navy officials said....

...Thus far, the Navy and Marine Corps have made progress with a series of extensive preparations on board amphibious assault ships in order to ensure that their flight decks, sensors and weapons systems can accommodate the first ever deployment of the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter slated for 2018.

The Marine Corps short-take-off-and-landing variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, the F-35B, could be the first ever fifth-generation aircraft in the world to deploy when they serve on board several amphibs in 2018, Marine Corps and Navy leaders told Scout Warrior.

The technological modifications are already complete on the USS Wasp, an operational Navy amphib; they are also operational aboard the USS America while also being built into the USS Tripoli, Navy officials said.

Navy engineers and shipbuilders have recently done extensive work on board the USS America, the lead ship in a series of 11 planned America-class big-deck amphibs. The USS America, or LHA 6, was commissioned by the Navy October of 2014 and has completed a trail period known as “post-shakedown availability” and gone on missions to South America to connect with key allies. The ship is slated for full operational deployment with the F-35B in the future.


The USS America underwent a series of intense modifications in order to ensure that the weapons and sensors and synchronized with the Joint Strike Fighter and that flight deck can withstand the heat of the F-35B vertical take-offs-and-landings.

Navy engineers are installing a new heat-resistant thermally sprayed non-skid, which is designed to prevent long-term heat damage to the flight deck and underlying structure, adding intercostal structural members below landing spots seven and nine. This reduces stress on flight deck, and integrating the flight deck with support equipment, sensors and weapons.

“With the added structure, these two landing spots will provide the capability to perform closely timed cyclic flight operations with the F-35B without overstressing the flight deck,” a Navy official said.

Also, some of the modifications may involve re-adjusting some of the ship’s antennas in order to allow for a clear flight path for the JSF....

...America-Class Amphibious Assault Ships:
Much of the effort with the USS America is going inside the ship and dropping lighting and ventilation and piping wiring and everything down far enough so new material can be installed and welded in place, senior Navy officials said.

“The America class is intended to operate for sustained periods in transit and operations in an Amphibious Objective Area to include embarking, transporting, controlling, inserting, sustaining and extracting elements of a Marine Air-Ground Task Force and supporting forces by helicopters and tilt rotors supported by Joint Strike Fighters F-35B,” a Navy official added.

Overall, the USS Tripoli will be 844-feet long and 106-feet wide and have a weight of more than 44,000 tons. A fuel-efficient gas turbine propulsion system will bring the ship’s speed up to more than 20 knots, a Huntington Ingalls statement said.

The ship will be able to carry a crew of 1,204 and 1,871 troops, meaning the ship is being engineered to carry a Marine Expeditionary Unit, the statement added...."

Source: http://hrana.org/news/2016/11/for-the-f ... ive-bombs/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 08:43
by spazsinbad
This tidbit will be repeated on the more appropriate F-35C DT-III thread but relevant here due above screenshots etc....
Navy F-35C Now Armed With Max Weapons Load
25 Aug 2016 Kris Osborn

"During recent developmental testing on the USS George Washington in the Atlantic Ocean, the F-35C took off with one GBU-31, two AIM-120s and four GBU-12s along with its 25mm gun mounted in a pod beneath the aircraft...."

Source: http://hrana.org/news/2016/08/navy-f-35 ... pons-load/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2016, 09:15
by spazsinbad
LM F-35 GM Weekly Update
01 Dec 2016 Jeff Babione

"F-35B DT-III Complete
After three weeks on board, and just in time for Thanksgiving, our PAX River test team completed DT-III for the F-35B. Overall, they accomplished 60 flights, 128 vertical landings, 126 short takeoffs, two vertical takeoffs, and expanded the F-35B’s shipboard operating envelope to full operational capability for the U.S. Marine Corps...."

Source: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... 2_1_16.pdf (0.9Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:22
by zerion
Long article best read at source

THE MOMENT PILOTS FIRST REALIZED THE F-35 WAS SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY

To understand the significance and value of the F-35, and whether “it works” or not, cut through the complexity and noise. Simplify. Put aside the politicians, the ideologues, the self-proclaimed experts and listen to the voice of the pilots.

The pilots will take the aircraft into combat, their own lives in the balance as they penetrate contested space and are likely to be outnumbered by adversary aircraft.

Second Line of Defense and a handful of journalists recently had the opportunity to visit with four such pilots during a “Proof of Concept” demonstration on the USS America, November 19, 2016...

On a personal level as pilots, coming from other platforms and stepping into the F-35, do you have an “aha” moment that you can share?

Guts: My first “aha” moment was a seemingly simple thing.

I was executing a familiarization flight near MCAS Yuma. I was coming back to the airfield and I basically just turned the jet and pointed its nose at Yuma.

Immediately the jet is providing me the information of all the traffic that is out there in the airspace.

When I talk to approach for the first time they are telling me about the traffic that is out there that I already know about and I see it.

I can tell who everybody is that he is talking about and the jet also saw traffic that ATC hadn’t seen yet and I asked about it. And I thought, “holy cow,” here I am coming back to the field from a simple familiarity mission and my jet is telling me everything about the operational environment I am about to go into.

In this case, something very simple, the traffic pattern coming back there, but I didn’t have to do anything to have that level of SA.

I can start making decisions about what altitude I wanted to go to, if I wanted to turn left or right, speed up or slow down.

There’s somebody coming up next to me, I want to get in front of them – or whatever.

It is a very simple example, but I thought WOW this is amazing that I see everything and can do that.

The other was the first time I vertically recovered the airplane. The flight control law that the airplane has is unbelievable and I always tell the anecdote. Flying AV-8B Harrier IIs, I only had one specific aircraft I felt like I could kind of go easy on the controls and it would sit there and hover.

I love the Harrier, love flying that aircraft, but there was work involved to bring it back for a vertical landing. The very first time I hovered an F-35B I thought, I am the problem here, and I am just going to let the jet do what it wants to do.

The F-35 was hovering better than I could ever hover a Harrier without doing a thing. That’s back to that workload comment I said earlier. I am performing a vertical landing, and I have the time to look around and see what is taking place on the pad and around me. It is a testament to the jet.

BC: I was conducting a strike mission and Red Air was coming at me. In a 4th Gen fighter you must do a whole lot of interpretation. You see things in azimuth, and you see things in elevation. In the F-35 you just see the Gods eye view of the whole world. It’s very much like you are watching the briefing in real time.

I am coming in to perform the simulated weapons release, and Red Air is coming the other direction.

I have enough situational awareness to assess whether Red Air is going to be a factor to me by the time I release the weapon. I can make the decision, I’m going to go to the target, I’m going to release this weapon.

At the same time I pre-target the threat, and as soon as I release the A2G weapon, I can flip a switch with my thumb and shoot the Red Air.

This is difficult to do in a 4th Gen fighter, because there is so much manipulation of systems in the cockpit.

All while paying attention to the basic mechanics of flying the airplane and interpreting threat warnings that are often very vague, or only directional.

In the F-35 I know where the threats are, what they are and I can thread the needle. I can tell that the adversary is out in front of me and I can make a very, very smart decision about whether to continue or get out of there. All that, and I can very easily switch between mission sets.

Mo: I was leading a four ship of F-35s on a strike against 4th Gen adversaries, F-16s and F/A-18s.

We fought our way in, we mapped the target, found the target, dropped JDAMs on the target and turned around and fought our way out.

All the targets got hit, nobody got detected, and all the adversaries died. I thought, yes, this works, very, very, very well.

Never detected, nobody had any idea we were out there.

A second moment was just this past Thursday. I spent a fair amount of my life as a tail hook guy – [landing F/A-18s on US Navy Supercarriers] on long carrier deployments.

The last 18 seconds of a Carrier landing are intense. The last 18 seconds of making a vertical landing on this much smaller USMC Assault Carrier – is a lot more relaxed.

The F-35C is doing some great stuff. Making a vertical landing [my first this week] on the moving ship, that is much smaller than anything I’ve landed on at sea – with less stress, was pretty awesome.

Sack: It was my first flight at Edwards AFB Jan ’16. I got in the airplane and started it up. I was still on the deck and there were apparently other F-35s airborne – I believe USAF, I was not aware. I was a single ship, just supposed to go out and get familiar flying the aircraft.

As the displays came alive there were track files and the SA as to what everyone else was doing in the airspace, and I was still on the ground. I mean, I hadn’t even gotten my take-off clearance yet.

I didn’t even know where it was coming from. It was coming from another F-35. The jet had started all the systems for me and the SA was there. That was a very eye opening moment for me.

The second one, took place when I came back from that flight. In a Hornet you would pull into the line and had a very methodical way in which you have to shut off the airplane and the systems otherwise you could damage something.

So you have to follow a sequence, it is very methodical about which electronic system you shut off. In the F-35 you come back, you do a couple things then you just shut the engine off, and it does everything else for you. Sounds simple, even silly – but it is a quantum shift

http://www.sldinfo.com/the-moment-pilot ... aordinary/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:32
by SpudmanWP
spazsinbad wrote:the F-35C took off with one GBU-31, two AIM-120s and four GBU-12s along with its 25mm gun mounted in a pod beneath the aircraft...."


A pic would have been nice :(

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 04:51
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 05:01
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 05:35
by spazsinbad
DT-III USS America Nov 2016 "Does my turn look tight in this"? or if on USS Eisenhower 'Ike & Tight Turner' show.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 041850865/

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5575/304 ... 03_o_d.jpg (3.8Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 05:41
by SpudmanWP
Is this a 1st public view of the radar blockers up the tailpipe???

Image

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 05:43
by spazsinbad
12 F-35Bs on Sovereign AMERICAN SOIL 18 Nov 2016 https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 041850865/

JPG: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5686/312 ... 8d_o_d.jpg (6.7Mb)

Then another view of same deck: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5772/304 ... 14_o_d.jpg (4.6Mb)

ZOOM pics show 8 at one end & 4 at the other end with one shown twice just to show same deck pic as original complete.

& a rear view: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5446/309 ... b1_o_d.jpg (4.7Mb)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockheedm ... 041850865/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 05:58
by spazsinbad
Chain Me Up & that Rear End View (BLOCKED by Censors) fillum attached

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 06:27
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 19:32
by steve2267
SpudmanWP wrote:Is this a 1st public view of the radar blockers up the tailpipe???

Image


spazsinbad wrote:Chain Me Up & that Rear End View (BLOCKED by Censors) fillum attached


I saw this a week or two ago in a (possibly different) video, but didn't take the time to try to screenshot the frame and post.

This is the first view up the tailpipe I've seen of the F135 engine. IMO we are seeing the aft end of the low pressure turbine. I think the term "radar blockers" is misleading. I can't think of sticking some fixed thing in the back end of a turbojet or turbofan engine that would "block radar" without also wreaking havoc on the flow qualities of the engine exhaust and hence the thermodynamics and the efficiency of the engine.

The objects extending radially from the conical hub at the center of the engine appear consistent with vanes such as you see on an old fashioned wind mill on a farm. That is, they sure look like low pressure turbine vanes. I suppose you could put something in the back designed to "deflect radar" -- bounce the radar into the sides of the engine and shape the engine to try to trap the radar inside the engine similar to how the air intakes are shaped to also trap radar -- but let it spin around like a wind mill. Still, if you don't extract any energy from the "spinning", you are just creating blockage / drag inside the engine.

So IMO this is the rear of the low pressure turbine. And I expect shaping has been applied to the rear of the turbine, possibly to the consternation of the engine fluid dynamicists, to deflect radar into the engine sidewall, which itself has been shaped to "trap" radar reflections in the engine itself. I would also guess that some sort of ceramic coating(s), probably high in iron ferrites, have been applied to the rear of the low pressure turbine blades along with the interior of the back of the engine, to absorb the radar. The conical-shaped hub at the center of the engine is probably also shaped to reflect radar into the engine sidewall to prevent it from reflecting back out the end of the engine. Shaping the aft end of the engine to "trap" radar would be consistent with some statements from pilots and others that the F-35 possesses true all-aspect stealth.

I would not be surprised to learn that the Skunk Works guys "coached up" or otherwise assisted the P&W engineers in stealthifying their motors, as their relationship dates back to at least 1995 when LM entered into an exclusive arrangement with P&W whereby P&W would only work with LM on a shaft-driven lift fan engine.

Lastly, notably absent is a lack of afterburner flame holder structure in the aft end of the motor. I seem to recall videos of multi-stage afterburners lighting off. (I may be recalling a video sequence of an F-14 catapult launch in Topgun where you see multiple stages of the afterburner lighting. Now I cannot recall what I saw looking in the back of an F-16 at an airshow... Do F-100 / F-110 / modern 4th gen afterburning jet engines have some sort of flameholder structure in the back of the engine related to afterburner usage? If so, I would think that would be a radar reflector par excellence.

Several posts / papers have noted that the F135 implemented the afterburner in a new manner to avoid radar signature problems.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 19:52
by SpudmanWP
steve2267 wrote:So IMO this is the rear of the low pressure turbine.


That's what I fist thought but .... where are the AB holders??

The only decent pic of a F135 cutaway is this one which shows the burners coming after the last LP turbine. Has anyone ever made them come before the turbines before? Looking at other engine cutaways I have yet to fine ones with such large blades as the last stage as in the F135 pic above.

Image

For a comparison, here is the F100

Image

One last question... In the above pic that I posted, is the F35 engine on since there are no hold-down chains and it's not under tow?

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2016, 20:03
by steve2267
To try to avoid splintering this thread into an engine stealth thread, I created the following thread to discuss the low observable nature of the F-135:

Low Observeability of the F-135 engine

Spudman... would you be amenable to move your post over to that thread?

Edited to add: Thanks Spuds!

Everyone reading this... please consider the using the above thread to continue discussion of the F-135 engine and its stealth characteristics.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2016, 00:48
by spazsinbad
Attached 7 page PDF from 2011 details how a CFD analysis for F-35Bs on LHAs (specifically WASP) was carried out:

Computational Analysis for Air/Ship Integration: 2nd Year Report Susan A. Polsky
US Naval Air Warfare Center, Aircraft Division (NAWCAD), Patuxent River, MD
https://www.hpc.mil/images/hpcdocs/news ... _small.pdf (24.2Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2016, 03:05
by steve2267
Nice find, Spaz!

If you find any additional papers by the author, please post them. (I don't have time at present to run off performing exhaustive technical report searches.)

The paper was written in 2010. It described performing CFD analyses of the interactions between ship flowfield (air, not water) wakes and aircraft: an L-class ship + F-35, and a DDG-class ship + H-60. The paper stated they were successful in various modeling endeavors, but no results were presented. The CFD analyses were being performed to develop the capability to incorporate real-time interaction between a ship and aircraft within a running flight simulation. The paper also described using CFD results to inform WOD limits.

I saw lots of pretty pictures, and descriptions of neato analyses, but did not see any results (e.g pretty graphcs of results let alone hard numbers.)

Nothing related to the thermal environment of F-35 exhaust as it may have interacted with the deck and/or other shipboard equipment.

It's been 5-6 years since this paper... so I suspect there are other papers out there. Would be interesting to see what has been published. Maybe I'll search for them later this week if I have the time.

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2016, 03:45
by spazsinbad
Yes I like pretty pictures and I could have posted more text (abstract) to inform potential readers of content. One will always be disappointed by the amount of public info available online about the F-35 for good reason one would imagine. Chinese / Russian hackers eat sh*t and die! However that article does show some effort (as you say there will be more effort to find probably) into modelling and preparing for F-35 ops generally. The person who said prepare for 1,700 degree exhaust from the F-35 should also es&d but they were probably just ignorantly incompetent & I hope hackers flustered.

The very next article was/is perhaps more interesting however I ran out of puff arranging the pretty picture - it is titled and it does not mention temperature so do not be disappointed by content with 11 page PDF attached:

Computational Modeling of Geometrically Complex Modern Weapons Bays and Weapons Dispense at High Supersonic Speeds
Rudy Johnson; US Air Force Research Laboratory, Air Vehicles Directorate (AFRL/RB), Wright-Patterson AFB, OH

"ABSTRACT
Computational modeling of the air flow in a geometrically-complex weapons bay, as well as the separation of weapons from a generic cavity model into a high-Mach (3.5–5.0) -, are summarized. Computational work on the geometrically-complex bay is focused on flow control strategies for the reduction of dynamic pressure loads. Results indicate significantly different acoustic characteristics for the bay when one versus two doors is open. When both bay doors are open, leading-edge mass blowing combined with aft-wall treatment is an effective approach to reduction of dynamic pressure loads. However, the effectiveness of this control strategy is reduced when only one bay door is open, due to the generation of strong resonant tones. Computational fluid dynamics (CFD) analysis has led to the development of novel, easily integratable “passive” control strategies involving “baffles” that have shown significant reduction in the tonal amplitude. The CFD simulations have enabled a good understanding of the complex flow field, led to the development of control strategies, and have guided the sub-scale wind-tunnel test program. Significance to the Department of Defense (DoD) is the integration of successful acoustic reduction concepts into realistic aircraft weapons bays.

CFD simulations of weapons separation from a generic bay at high-speed are being used to develop data acquisition techniques for sub-scale wind-tunnel testing in the high supersonic regime. The bays at these high-Mach numbers involve spatial and temporal flow field scales that are an order-of-magnitude smaller than those at Mach 1.5–2.0 regime, making the numerical simulations of such bays computationally more expensive. The availability of the high performance computing resources towards this end is gratefully acknowledged, while the significance to DoD is the improved understanding of the associated flow physics that will help in the better design of data acquisition techniques for store dispense at these high supersonic Mach numbers."

Source: https://www.hpc.mil/images/hpcdocs/news ... _small.pdf (24Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2016, 03:58
by spazsinbad
This is the abstract & introduction from F-35B LHA Modelling PDF above/on previous page now.
Computational Analysis for Air/Ship Integration: 2nd Year Report
Susan A. Polsky US Naval Air Warfare Center, Aircraft Division (NAWCAD), Patuxent River, MD

"Abstract
This paper documents the accomplishments from the second year of a three-year Grand Challenge Project focusing on the application of computational fluid dynamics to predict coupled ship and aircraft aerodynamics. Unstructured chimera techniques were used to simulate the coupled ship and aircraft systems. Dynamic aircraft maneuvers were prescribed with the intention of building simulations with an auto-pilot-in-the-loop. All simulations were computed in a time-accurate fashion due to the unsteady nature of the flowfield, and used the commercial flow-solver Cobalt. Analyses for both vertical shipboard landings of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) and rotary-wing aircraft are discussed. Internal components of the JSF lift-fan were added to the model to increase the solution fidelity.

1. Introduction
While many aspects must be taken into consideration to ensure safe shipboard flight operations, a primary factor is evaluation of turbulent air-wake effects on aircraft performance and pilot workload. The air-wake is a product of wind passing over ship structures creating non-uniform, turbulent air flow. The US Navy conducts shipboard dynamic interface (DI) testing to evaluate ship air-wake effects on aircraft operations. These tests result in wind-over-deck (WOD) flight envelopes that prescribe in what wind conditions an aircraft can or cannot fly. The WOD flight envelopes are part of the operating procedures for all ship-based aircraft. Testing is required to generate WOD envelopes for each model of air vehicle operating from a given ship. The DI tests are performed at-sea, typically over the course of several weeks.

Application of computational fluid dynamics (CFD) methods to predict the turbulent ship air-wake has been studied in the past with considerable success[1–4]. This has resulted in the use of CFD as an analysis tool to “diagnose” air-wake structures that may impact air operations for both current and future ship designs. These diagnoses are accomplished by linking stored CFD-generated air-wake data with offline aircraft models, controlled by either a pilot model or some other autonomous controller. For this “one-way coupled” approach, the air-wake data is imposed on the aircraft model; however, the presence of the aircraft does not feed back into the air-wake data. While this approach has proven very useful, there are limitations to its applicability. When employing CFD data generated from a ship in isolation, the underlying assumption is that the presence of the aircraft will not affect the air-wake from the ship structures. In the case of a small uninhabited air vehicle (UAV), this is likely a valid assumption; however, for an aircraft that produces a large wake of its own (such as a helicopter), this assumption becomes less-and-less valid as the aircraft comes in closer proximity to ship structures. The interaction of the ship air-wake and the aircraft wake is generally referred to as ship/aircraft coupling. Aerodynamic coupling is a concern for both fixed-wing and rotary-wing shipboard operations.

As mentioned above, past research developed methods to accurately predict ship air-wake and laid the groundwork for prediction of coupled ship & aircraft predictions. Research executed in the 2006–2008 time-frame demonstrated the feasibility of modeling both stationary aircraft and aircraft with prescribed-motion immersed in ship air-wake. The aircraft types examined included fixed-wing (F-18) and rotary-wing (V-22, H-60). The present work builds upon past research in coupled ship/aircraft modeling through support from the Office of Naval Research “Coupled Aircraft Ship Simulation for Improved Acquisition” (CASSIA) program and the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program.

The goal of the CASSIA program is to understand the physical and numerical modeling deficiencies that prevent the application of current dynamic interface simulations for flight-envelope prediction. Analysis of an H-60 helicopter with a DDG (destroyer)-class ship was continued in the 2nd year (Figure 1). The motivation for the DDG/H-60 analysis is to understand where (in regards to proximity to a ship) aerodynamic coupling becomes important for rotary-wing vehicles. This knowledge, along with the coupled DDG/H-60 CFD data will be used to develop methods to account for aerodynamic coupling suitable for man-in-the-loop simulations (i.e., methods that run in real-time).

Analyses of the short takeoff vertical landing (STOVL) JSF on L-class US Navy ships (Figure 2) were also conducted. The JSF CFD analysis was required to prepare the ship for JSF testing. In particular, analyses were required to examine whether JSF outwash during vertical landings (VL) would damage critical (and costly) ship systems, either due to exposure to hot jet exhaust or due to the force of the jet exhaust. During an approach to a landing spot, the aircraft core nozzle passes near many large hull-mounted systems, such as radars and weaponry, and passes directly over the catwalk and flight deck. Although sub-scale experimental studies of the STOVL outwash field were conducted, these experiments were for zero ambient wind-speed with exhaust impingement on flat plates. It was recognized that the air-flow patterns would likely be affected by surrounding ship structures and prevailing wind-speed and direction. Therefore, the CFD analyses included the ship hull, island superstructure, and many of the larger ship systems in the area of concern (Figure 2). The CFD analyses were used to help determine whether steps should be taken to move or shield deck-edge equipment and replace it with instrumentation to gather data during flight-test at-sea. In the 2nd year of this project, short takeoff (STO) scenarios were also examined. In addition, the fidelity of the JSF model was significantly increased to include most of the internal lift-fan structure...."

Source: https://www.hpc.mil/images/hpcdocs/news ... _small.pdf (24.2Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 03:02
by spazsinbad

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 23 Dec 2016, 02:14
by spazsinbad
Oh NO! More words about Navy stuff - cor blimey guv! The good lads at AIR International have dun it agin. BZ! 6 page PDF attached of the entire article (which is not just about Navy stuff - but youse know me by now).
Another Year Done
Jan 2017 David C Isby & Mark Ayton

"At the close of another year of test and front line ops for the F-35 Lightning II programme, David C Isby and Mark Ayton cover some recent events...

...F-35B DT III On October 28, seven F-35Bs landed on the flight deck of USS America (LHA-6) at the start of what was called Developmental Test Phase III at sea or DT III. This was the final evolution for the F-35B in its current configuration during 21 days at sea that concluded on November 17.

DT III involved seven F-35B Lightning IIs: two from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 (VX-23) ‘Salty Dogs’ based at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland; two from Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 1 (VMX-1); and three from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 (VMFA-211) ‘Wake Island Avengers’.

DT III Objectives
• Day carrier qualification (CQ)
• Initial pilot CQ
• Flight deck crew familiarisation
Night operations with Gen III helmet-mounted display

Shipboard Launch and Recovery Expansion
• Short take-off flying qualities an envelope expansion
• Vertical landing flying qualities and envelope expansion
• Vertical landings to spots 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9
• Vertical landing and short take-offs with symmetric and asymmetric external stores carriage
Vertical take-off
• Increased deck motion operations in solid sea state four conditions up to +/-5.5° roll and +/-2° pitch
• Joint precision approach and landing systems testing

Logistical Test and Evaluation
• Engine
• Lift fan
• Maintenance support
• Footprint support
• Weapons loading

Flight Deck Ops
DT III was technically known as an operational test (OT) assist development test (DT) event, in which qualified OT test pilots conducted some of the DT test points.

The primary objectives of the 21-day period were shipboard launch and recovery expansion test points focused on the evaluation of flying qualities at various aircraft weights, crosswinds, sink rates and high sea states, and clearing the F-35B for maximum gross weight take-offs involving a lot of missions loaded with externally carried stores, a load configuration not done on previous F-35B detachments DT I and DT II. A high sea state was key to meeting test objectives on DT III, a step-change from fairly calm sea states and the resultant steady deck present during DT I and DT II. F-35 Chief Test Engineer Andrew Maack said the team wanted to be able to test up to +/-5° roll and +/-2° pitch movement of the flight deck: “We easily found those conditions that were new for the F-35B, but it performed very well: 60 flights; 53.5 flight hours; 128 vertical landings; 126 short take-offs; and two vertical take-offs.” Weapon loads comprised various combinations of 1,000lb GBU-32 Joint Direct Attack Munitions carried internally; 500lb GBU-12 laser-guided bombs carried externally on the wing stations; and AIM- 9X Sidewinders carried on the wing tip stations.

Gabriella Spehn, an F-35 weapons engineer from the F-35 Integrated Test Force based at Patuxent River, said: “We’re augmenting the existing weight centre of gravity effects of the aircraft to expand the envelope with wind over deck, and different lateral symmetry and asymmetry configurations.”

The DT III weapons team tested all of the take-off and landing worst-case scenarios and endpoints. Spehn said the only way to increase the endpoints is to test on board a ship for sink rates and high sea states. Explaining the test effort, Andrew Maack said: “We conducted max load-out launches, looking for the short take-off spotting position on the deck to enable us to determine the absolute minimum performance acceptable for the aircraft. We produce the performance bulletins to be used by the fleet.”

The other critical stage of flight that asymmetric loading can affect is the vertical landing. In the fleet, external asymmetrically loaded stores are brought back to the ship either because the pilot did not have cause to expend the stores or because reasons dictated an inadvertent bring-back. Andrew Maack explained that the most critical variable for the build-up of asymmetric loads and the associated handling qualities are the environmental conditions in which the test is conducted: the wind direction relevant to the aircraft, either down the deck or a crosswind. Consequently, the critical build-up was in the environmental conditions, rather than a regimented set of different asymmetries. However, the primary driver for max load-out take-off conditions tend to be performance oriented, as Maack explained: “We’re looking for the minimum short takeoff performance and those tests require a steady deck. A moving deck makes it difficult to sort the data and map to models, which is ultimately what we are trying to do.”

Maintenance
There were multiple maintenance test events conducted. One involved a dedicated spare engine placed on board for the purpose of evaluating an engine module replacement; an intermediate level maintenance procedure on the engine that would be done in a maintenance back shop evolution. Other big maintenance procedures were an engine removal and installation on one of the jets, and a lift-fan removal and installation on another jet. Andrew Maack said there was also a considerable amount of publications verification conducted, much of which involved evaluating the publications used by fleet maintainers to ensure processes are being done in the most effective manner and the documentation is adequate for a fleet maintainer to be able to conduct the procedure at sea.

Operational testers VMX-1 had a deployable ALIS unit on-board, which was evaluated by a team led by the ALIS testers from the Pax-based ITF. ALIS is the acronym for the F-35’s Autonomic Logistics Information System. ALIS SOU Version 2 was delivered to Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 (VMFA-121) ‘Green Knights’ in June 2015. The system is not fully mature, but in the configuration now fielded proved its capability during DT III aboard the USS America.

The ALIS servers have been reconfigured to disassemble into man-portable sections, and are now the primary system used by operational F-35B squadrons; this type of server was used on board USS America.

Maack gave some perspective: “The amount of logistics test and evaluation conducted on DT III was more than we had done on all the previous detachments combined. This was a function of the OT team being on board and dedicating an aircraft to support the effort.”

Summing up DT III, Maack said the big thing was testing in high sea states with stores: “Once all of the data is analysed, it will determine operating envelopes for the F-35B that will be used by the fleet for decades. The F-35 is a tremendous capability. Just the touch-down dispersion and accuracy when the pilots put the aircraft down during all of the demanding conditions was remarkable.”

Proof of Concept Demo
Once the 21-day DT effort was complete, VMX-1 started a three-day Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demonstration on November 18–20 with an F-35-heavy Aviation Combat Element. Twelve F-35Bs were involved from three units: the Salty Dogs of VX-23; Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 (VMFA-211) ‘Wake Island Avengers’, based at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona; and the F-35 detachment of Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron One (VMX-1), based at Edwards Air Force Base, California. However, for the first time during a period spent at sea by the F-35B, the Carrier Proof of Concept Demonstration also involved other types from a Marine Expeditionary Unit. VMX-1 deployed two MV-22B Ospreys, one UH- 1Y Huey and one AH-1Z Cobra.

The Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept Demonstration was designed to evaluate the F-35B’s suitability and effectiveness at sea alongside other Marine Air to Ground Task Force assets to the maximum extent possible. Specifically, assessment was made of the F-35B while operating across a wide array of flight and deck operations, including mission systems, support equipment and procedures, maintenance operations and logistical supply chain support in an at-sea environment.

Operational testers also conducted risk reduction demonstrations in the shipboard environment, in preparation for upcoming operational missions.

Demo Objectives
• Execute numerous day and night take-offs from and landings on USS America
Operate in the Block 2B, Block 3i, and Block 3F software configuration aboard USS America with applicable sustainment support and infrastructure
• Execute and assess standard day and night extended range operations
• Assess aircraft-to-ship network communications interoperability
• Assess the efficacy of the F-35B landing signals officer’s launch and recovery software
• Assess the crew’s ability to conduct scheduled and unscheduled maintenance activities
• Assess the suitability of F-35B maintenance support equipment for shipboard operations
• Assess the integration of the F-35B alongside other MAGTF assets
Execute and assess day and night weapons loading including live ordnance releases
• Assess all aspects of the logistics and sustainment support of the F-35B while deployed at sea

Flight Ops
Flight operations focused on routine mission sets from sea, such as strike missions, close air support, armed reconnaissance, assault support escort and maritime strike.

For the final event, VMX-1 conducted a combined mission to San Clemente Island, a multi-platform mission off the ship into an objective area. In addition to mission sets, other operationally relevant tests were performed to evaluate interoperability of the aircraft-to-ship network communications: F-35B landing signal officer’s launch and recovery software; the crew’s ability to conduct scheduled and unscheduled maintenance activities; the suitability of F-35B maintenance support equipment for shipboard operations; day and night weapons loading, including the first live ordnance drops from sea-based F-35s; and all aspects of the logistics and sustainment support of the F-35B while deployed at sea.

For the weapons loading, USS America’s weapons department assembled 72 GBU-12s and 40 GBU-32 JDAMs. Armament Marines assigned to VMX-1 then used the assembled munitions to undertake day-time and night-time weapons loading. From the arsenal of assembled weapons on board, some were live and were dropped by VMX-1 test pilots for the live fire events. Over two consecutive days VMX-1 dropped six GBU-12s on a live weapons range in Yuma, Arizona.

VMX-1’s Commanding Officer, Colonel Rowell, said: “We learnt a lot of valuable lessons about ALIS: the configuration of the brief and debrief facility; which landing spots are convenient for the F-35; how we move F-35s around the deck and the hangar bays; and a lot of maintenance knowledge.”

Data and lessons learned from the demonstration are now being used for developing the concept of operations for F-35B deployments aboard US Navy amphibious assault ships beginning in 2018.

Demo Facts
• Dubbed the next phase of the F-35B Lightning II’s advancement in naval integration
• November 18–20
• Explored the best way to integrate a larger package of F-35Bs into the current Navy-Marine Corps structure to bring the most power projection from the sea
• Ratified procedures between the US Navy and US Marine Corps in preparation for upcoming deployments in 2018
Carrier-qualified 19 Marine Corps pilots in a three-week at sea period. Prior to the demo, only eight Marine Corps F-35B pilots had carrier qualified in the last four years

Accomplishments
At the conclusion of the DT III, the longest at sea period undertaken by the F-35B, the combined DT and OT teams accomplished: the first integration of ALIS SOU version 2 aboard a ship; the first engine and lift fan removal and installation aboard an amphibious assault ship; the first live ordnance operations aboard a ship; the first F-35B integration with AEGIS; the first F-35B integration with MV- 22B Ospreys, a UH-1Y Venom and an AH- 1Z Viper aboard a ship; the most F-35s ever embarked aboard a ship (the previous record was six); the first time Block 3F OT at sea; and the first Royal Navy F-35B pilot became carrier qualified. At the end of 2016, F-35s had been handed over to Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, the United Kingdom and three of the US armed services. In 2017, the F-35 System Design and Development phase is expected to finish, the initial operational test and evaluation will begin and the US Marine Corps will deploy the first F-35 squadron to an overseas location. Much work still has to be completed on the jet, but based on comments given to AIR International by DT, OT and front-line pilots at this early stage of its service career indicate the F-35 to be a world-beater.

Source: AIR International Magazine January 2017 Vol.92 No.1

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 24 Dec 2016, 04:56
by spazsinbad
Chains but this time a Super Hornet. Chains can make maintenance difficult. See the external AoA Indexer Lights for LSO.

http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/D ... 61_No2.pdf (3Mb)

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2016, 14:43
by popcorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwoGkDGDtS8

around the 25-sec mark...to paraphrase.." 6, 8 12 F-35s on this ship represent the most powerful concentration of combat power ever put to sea in the history of the world". Them's fighting words/ :D

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2016, 15:11
by spazsinbad
:applause: :shock: 8) :devil: "...in the history of the world...." :doh: FOOKIN' A! :mrgreen: :roll: 8) :applause:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2016, 15:36
by popcorn
The RN will claim bragging rights soon enough!

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2016, 17:32
by sferrin
popcorn wrote:The RN will claim bragging rights soon enough!


Will the RN get the rights if they're USMC planes though? :wink:

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2016, 20:21
by XanderCrews
The Brits will take plenty of credit.

As far as most of them are concerned they have brought dignity to what would otherwise be a dull dreary affair lol

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2016, 22:40
by popcorn
and, somehwere, a tear rolls slowly down a CAG's cheek... :D

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 20:43
by spazsinbad
I'll plonk this one here becuz it does have some dirtyBritDT-III innit.
Shaping a 21st Century Assault Force From the Sea: The Perspective from VMX- 1
29 Dec 2016 Robbin Laird and Ed Timperlake

"Col. Rowell is the first Commanding Officer of VMX-1: Marine Corps Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 1. VMX-1 includes the operational test & evaluation (OT&E) and science & technology (S&T) activities that have supported Marine Aviation from HMX-1, VX-9, MACCS-X and MAWTS-1....

...VMX-1’s F-35Bs are at Edwards AFB as part of the Joint Operational Test Team which is working with their developmental test counterparts to evaluate and integrate the ongoing upgrades of the aircraft. The VMX-1 F-35Bs will come to Yuma in 2018 and will be the center of excellence for global F-35Bs as well after the Block 3F software is complete. VMX-1 will continue to shape the demand side for the F-35B community with regard to upgrades as well.

We asked about how integrated the British have been with Rowell and his Marines. He [Col. Rowell] noted that there is very close integration.
“It is crucial. We carrier qualified a Royal Navy pilot onboard the USS America in USMC airplanes. We are exchangeable. There is no light between the Brits and the Marines. On the America, you had UK maintainers, and you had observers from HMS Queen Elizabeth on board the USS America as well.” “It is very important for the community to remain focused on commonality. There is widespread recognition of this requirement. The Marines are a key stakeholder in this process with the services and the allies. We are well tied into the community to shape commonality for upgrades and shaping the way ahead.”

This applies in strategic terms to shape integrated airpower from the UK to Norway to Denmark to the Netherlands and operating off of US and UK seabases. “The interoperability between the USMC and the UK is a key thread in that effort with our ability to operate off of each other’s ships. It is like flying with someone else nationally but part of your own squadron.”

How did the maintainability go aboard the USS America during your recent tests?
“We took an aircraft and pulled the engine, drive shaft and lift fan – then reinstalled and flew it off of the ship in sea state three. We validated many of the toughest maintenance tasks at sea with that maintenance evolution, and that jet was one of the first planes off of the boat during the Lightning Carrier demonstration. The two Yuma squadrons plus VMX-1 were working the maintenance and almost all of the maintainers had never been to sea as well. Availability and maintainability was good. We did not lose any flying time due to maintainability. Very unusual for an aircraft at this stage of the game.”

The test community is shifting its focus on airframe testing to the software upgradeability dynamic. “We are internalizing that. The biggest item I saw was the growing realization of what a software defined and upgradeable plane is all about. Many of your hardware dynamics are also about software. For example, with regard to the fuel pump, what it does and how it performs is software driven. You have to tweak the software a bit and you can get the fuel pump do what you want to do with it.”..."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/shaping-a-21st-c ... rom-vmx-1/

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 06 Jan 2017, 10:36
by spazsinbad
Six + 2 PDF pages of NavAv LHA goodness re DT-III etc. And an auto VL coming to a flat deck near you SOONish whenever.
COMING TO AMERICA
Feb 2017 Jamie Hunter

"US Marine Corps F-35Bs headed back to sea in October and November 2016, this time aboard the USS America, for the third phase of developmental test (DT-III) and a proof-of-concept demonstration....

...The first DT-I and II sea trials for the F-35B were conducted aboard the USS Wasp in 2011 and 2013 respectively. DT-III marked the first stint aboard USS America, and there were some specific test points that the ITF team was going after. ‘There was really good weather for DT-I and DT-II’, says Lt Col Richard Rusnok of VMX-1. ‘So, the big thing was about going after higher deck motion events. Being on the West Coast and out on the Pacific tends to be [rougher] than the Atlantic, and actually we were able to find some pretty significant deck motion. They were really good test points.

‘I was LSO [landing signals officer] for some of those deck motion points and we were doing the exact opposite of what you would normally do as an LSO. We were intentionally trying to launch the test jets into the absolutely worst deck motion. So, we’re holding them on the deck, getting the launch signal, then we’re watching the wave cycles come at us waiting for the best time to launch [the best time being the most challenging time].’

As well as the pitching deck, external loads were carried in relation to the Block 3F software load. The loads enabled the ITF to drive the aircraft’s center of gravity to extremes, while the jets also flew with asymmetric loads to analyze the impact of this on operations. ‘You’ll see that we had pylons and weapons on one side only specifically to drive the asymmetric conditions’, Rusnok added....

...With a background in the program, Rusnok was able to participate in combined DT/OT of the Joint Precision Approach and Landing System (JPALS). ‘We pushed hard to get our jet BF-19 into upgrade. It came to us from the factory with TR-1 hardware, which means it couldn’t accept the new Block 3i or 3F software. We managed to put the jet into a four-week modification in August to add both TR-2 hardware and simultaneously upgrade it to Block 3F software standard. We were able to get a special flight clearance and that meant we had a second jet at the same standard as BF-05, both of which were capable with JPALS.’

This meant VMX-1 could augment the test team for the JPALS work on DT-III. ‘Essentially, the JPALS system aboard the USS America and the Block 3F software in the aircraft allows them to talk to each other’, Rusnok explains. JPALS is a differential GPS-based precision landing system from Raytheon that guides aircraft to carriers in all weather conditions and in surface conditions up to sea state five, using an encrypted, jam-proof datalink. In 2018, the Marine Corps plans to declare early operational capability on two amphibious assault ships to support F-35Bs. All three F-35 models will have JPALS capability embedded in their Block 3F software, although the US Air Force pulled out of the project.

The system should enable the F-35B to auto-land on the amphibious assault ship, although that ambition is still some way off. ‘BF-05 did fly auto-decelerations to the ship this time around and they started to refine that process’, says Rusnok. ‘The fleet pilots are manually flying the jet at the moment but we can still plug the ship’s speed into the autopilot. So, we are essentially flying formation with the ship at 10 to 15kt. The jet will ultimately communicate via JPALS with the ship to get that speed and set a GPS offset to the location we need to hover abeam the spot. Eventually the aircraft will do a completely automated landing.

...Preparing for the real world...
...The ‘Green Knights’ of ‘121’ are expected to embark the USS Wasp in February 2018 as part of the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU). VMFA-211 ‘Avengers’ at MCAS Yuma is set to deploy with a ‘southern California’ MEU in June 2018.

‘With the Block 3F software we will have full ordnance clearance — that means [the F-35B will be able to carry] 4,000lb more than a Marine Corps F/A-18’, enthuses Davis....

...The time spent on the America enabled the Marine Corps to carrier-qualify (CQ) 19 pilots, plus the first Royal Navy pilot, Lt Cdr Ian Tidball. ‘We worked up our FCLPs [field carrier landing practice] from late September; then the VMFA-211 guys did their work-ups while we were at sea in the first part of DT-III’, says Rusnok. ‘Of those 19 pilots, only four of us had flown on the ship before in the F-35. Eight of them had never flown to a LHA/LHD class carrier before. We qualified five LSOs as well, which was one of our main objectives — four of those were training LSOs, which allows us to build fleet pilots in that role.’..."

Source: Combat Aircraft Monthly February 2017 Vol.18 No.2

Re: DT-III aboard USS America

Unread postPosted: 17 Mar 2017, 20:43
by spazsinbad
4 page PDF of this article attached below.
F-35B Completes At Sea Developmental Testing
Winter 2017 NAN Naval Aviation News

"Seven F-35Bs assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23, Marine Operations Test and Evaluation Squadron (VMX) 1 and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 211 took part in three weeks of testing, which began Oct. 28.

The third developmental test phase, known as DT-III, evaluated the fighter’s short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) performance during high sea states. Operations included vertical takeoffs and landings, short takeoffs, night operations, symmetric and asymmetric internal and external weapons loads, and the first engine and lift-fan removal and replacement at sea.

A cadre of test pilots, engineers, maintainers and support personnel with the Patuxent River Integrated Test Force (ITF), assigned to VX-23 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, conducted the developmental testing and established the boundaries of safe and effective operations for F-35Bs outfitted with new Block 3F software, which provides 100 percent of the software needed for full war-fighting capability....

...During the three-week detachment, the test team logged 53.55 flight hours across 60 flights, conducting 126 short takeoffs, 128 vertical landings and two vertical takeoffs—an operational volume equivalent to at least four months of operations during a routine deployment at sea. Testing featured solid Sea State 4 conditions with high sea states featuring plus/minus 5.5 degrees of roll, plus/minus 2 degrees of pitch, up to 40 knots of headwind, and up to 18 knots of starboard crosswinds.

During the three weeks, 19 Marine Corps pilots qualified with the F-35B. Eight had qualified in the previous four years....

...“There is a slight difference in handling the AV-8B Harrier and the F-35B,” Posada said [Chief Petty Officer Phillip Posada, V-1 Division’s crash and salvage leading chief petty officer]. “The Lightning II packs more of a punch when it takes off. Because of that, our handlers know to plant themselves firmly and grab a pad eye, if necessary, to steady themselves. Another attribute is that it has a sharper turning radius, so we are able to taxi the aircraft easier.”

The plane also handles much differently while landing vertically. “I think the best adjective to describe it is that it’s awesome,” Dirk said. “You could parallel park this thing, it is so accurate. You’ve got a 40,000-pound aircraft that you have control over within a foot.”...

...The Patuxent River ITF and VMX-1 embarked on America with an aggressive test plan featuring a broad array of milestones, including shipboard launch and recovery expansion test points focused on evaluating flying qualities at various aircraft weights, particularly with regard to crosswinds, sink rates and high sea states.

Pilots intentionally conducted test flights under unfavorable environmental conditions to test the aircraft’s limitations and capabilities.

“As we all know, we can’t choose the location of the battle, so sometimes we have to go into rough seas with heavy swells, heave, roll, pitch and crosswinds,” Edgell said. “The last couple of days, we went and purposely found those nasty conditions and put the jets through those places, and the jet handled fantastically well. So now the external weapons testing should be able to give the fleet a clearance to carry weapons with the rough seas and rough conditions. We know the jet can handle it. A fleet clearance will come—then they can go forth and conduct battle in whatever environment.”

...The squadrons followed DT-III with a three-day proof-of-concept demonstration Nov. 18-20. The 12 F-35s aboard America during the demo were the most on a single ship—the previous high had been six.

The Lightning IIs flew alongside two MV-22B Ospreys, a UH-1Y Venom and an AH-1Z Viper, solidifying procedures between the Navy and Marine Corps...."

Graphic: https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=59279E1D

Source: http://navalaviationnews.navylive.dodli ... 17_web.pdf (7.7Mb)