F-35 tank killing capablity against T-14 Armata

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armedupdate

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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 06:36

How does the F-35's tank killing capabilities far with the T-14 Armata and its armor and countermeasures?

What is the HEAT RHA penetration of the SDB like? Can the T-14's hard kill and soft kill countermeasures defeat the F-35's PGM's? Are the bombs like bunker buster heavily armed to defend against CIWs as well as hardkill rounds? Also tanks like T-14 and T-90 have DIRCM correct?
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Dragon029

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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 07:17

A Small Diameter Bomb moving at about Mach 0.85 has roughly the same kinetic energy as a 120mm kinetic energy penetrator round (~5.5 megajoules), but exerts that energy over a wider area due to it's size. On the other hand though, it does also have a 93kg warhead, which will obviously do some damage. Would a SDB kill a T-14's crew? Hard to say, but I'd lean towards no due to the unmanned turret. Would it disable a T-14 and render it combat ineffective? I'd say it would.

As for hard-kill countermeasures; I'm not entirely up to speed on the T-14's active protection system, but if it has protection designed to detect and defeat top-attacks, then it's definitely possible that it could significantly decrease the effects of a SDB against it by causing premature detonation. Again though, you're still likely looking at ruined sensors, set-off ERA and possibly a damaged barrel.

Against larger munitions (1000lb or 2000lb JDAMs) or bunker-busters though, the tank is screwed; having one of these go off a few meters early isn't going to help you much. Of course, using a 2000lb bomb on just a tank isn't exactly ideal, but it's an option in a worst-case scenario.

As for DIRCM; the T-90 has dazzlers, but they're pointed towards the horizon and aren't directed (they're the red-looking lamps / 'eyes' on the T-90, either side of the barrel). The T-14 has no visible dazzlers or DIRCM, likely due to faith in it's hard-kill protection.

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Last edited by Dragon029 on 06 Oct 2015, 09:17, edited 1 time in total.
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oldiaf

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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 07:50

What about the effect of AGM-65 Maverick on T-14 ?
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kukemaim

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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 08:06

What do we really know about T-14 capabilities? Other than "very stronk, better than american"? Oh and, invisible to radar.
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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 09:16

A correction to my last post; I don't know why, but my mind swapped ERA and RHA.

oldiaf wrote:What about the effect of AGM-65 Maverick on T-14 ?


It's mostly the same as the SDB, except that it's slightly faster and one optional warhead is nearly 50% larger.

kukemaim wrote:What do we really know about T-14 capabilities? Other than "very stronk, better than american"? Oh and, invisible to radar.


We know it's size, we know that it has ERA, we know that other than a relatively small loader / breach mechanism, that the turret is mostly just accessories, we know it has hard-kill launchers at the base of the turret, as well as potential hard or soft kill launchers on top of the turret (they could be smoke / chaff launchers, or they could be small hard-kill projectile launchers or they could be a mix of both). It also does have RCS & IR reduction measures, but I wouldn't call it 'stealthy'.

We don't know much about it's actual armour, but you can only put so much on a tank before it''s harmful.
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stobiewan

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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 09:35

Brimstone might make a mess of a T14 - the UK is integrating it and I believe the US is looking at buying the thing.

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oldiaf

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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 09:48

The AGM-65 has higher speed and larger warhead than SDB so definitly it will have more strong effect on any armored target ....From where ever I look into it .. The AGM-65 was a game changer weapon the US stopped producing !
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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 10:33

A concrete bomb would possibly mess up a lot of sensitive stuff..
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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 12:36

oldiaf wrote:The AGM-65 has higher speed and larger warhead than SDB so definitly it will have more strong effect on any armored target ....From where ever I look into it .. The AGM-65 was a game changer weapon the US stopped producing !

AGM-65 have much shorter range than SDB and it is also a LOBL missile which make multiple target attack impossible
also most if not all hard kill active protection on tank are not designed to defeat top attack, so any weapons that can do top attack will be fine again them, in the worst case scenario you can drop 2 bombs instead of 1 again each tank, the first bombs may be defeated by APS but the second will go through.
penetration value of AGM and bombs are actually not that important because they mostly attack tank from the top where the armor is only few centimetres thick, and they have much more explosive than RPG, thus even if they fail to penetrate, the tank still get messed up
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Unread post06 Oct 2015, 12:55

Tank self protection systems generally don't work well with weapons coming in at high dive angles as it gets very hard to detect and track objects all around the tank. So they concentrate on most threatening elevations and that's from ground to say +10 to 15 degrees upwards. This is enough against ground launched top attack weapons as they usually fly attack with no to low dive angles. SDB (and Brimstone, JAGM or Spear) would be very different as it can dive in with rather steep angles.
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armedupdate

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Unread post07 Oct 2015, 03:40

Judging by this picture, the T-14's Afganit hard kill system shoots sideways to stop frontal atttacks not top attacks. It won't stop a Javelin or PGM.
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Can the T-90's dazzlers point upwards?
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Unread post07 Oct 2015, 04:55

If the Afghanit system works like the Arena APS, then it is useless against elevated threats (bombs). However, the big question is what the launchers on top do. If they just fire smoke / chaff grenades, then they're going to be limited in usefulness. If they're an active protection system however (and that may be likely due to the swivelling launchers) then they could help.

In particular, there's some fixed pods that point directly upwards (#5 in this diagram), which would be ideal for protecting against top-attack weapons (bombs, Javelins, etc).

Also, while it's unlikely; if the Afghanit can work like this (AFAIK it's called the IAAPS, developed for the FCS), then it could provide protection against bombs as well.

Also, I stand corrected; the T-90 can swivel it's dazzlers upwards. However, I'm not sure how high it can twist, as it looks like it might even be directly linked to the elevation of the cannon.
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Unread post07 Oct 2015, 05:27

The top cartridges are the soft kill system I believe.
http://defense-update.com/20150509_t14- ... hSeZyqwaA0
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Unread post07 Oct 2015, 07:46

oldiaf wrote:The AGM-65 has higher speed and larger warhead than SDB so definitly it will have more strong effect on any armored target ....From where ever I look into it .. The AGM-65 was a game changer weapon the US stopped producing !


oldiaf who told you the Maverick Missile was out of production? A direct hit from a Maverick will destroy any tank in the world. No tank or any other vehicle can survive a direct hit from a 126 lb shape charge warhead. The biggest advantage the A-10C has over the F-35 is it can carry Maverick Missiles.
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Unread post07 Oct 2015, 08:55

oldiaf wrote:What about the effect of AGM-65 Maverick on T-14 ?


Most estimates of the T-14 suggest it's not much better armored then the T-90. Remember the T-90 is better armored then the Russian T-72, which is better armored then the export versions we've faced in the Middle East. However a direct hit from a Maverick will open it up like a can. Western anti-tank weapons are so deadly Russia has felt it necessary to develop these hard and soft kill systems, along with jammers & dazzlers to throw off guidance systems.

SDB's will go right through roof of any tank. It will take out the engine deck destroying the engine, and setting the fuel on fire. If it hits the roof of a T-14 turret it will most likely set off the ammo. Russian Tanks are notorious for poor ammo storage. Most turret penetrations of Russian Tanks result in spectacular flair ups. Not very good for the crew even if their in the hull section of the T-14. None of the few turret penetrations of M-1A2's have resulted in ammo detonations, which is why crew casualties have been so low.

With Russian Tanks, manned by Russian crews now fighting in Syria we'll see how well they'll do. American TOW Missiles have been having good results in Syria verses T-55s and Export T-72s. The Sunni States will be upping the game with more and better anti-tank weapons so we'll soon be seeing a lot of burned out Russian T-90s. We have reports of at least one T-90 Battalion in Syria, guarding their Base at Latakia, with more units coming.

I expect lots of AT-4's, Javelins, and other Western AT Weapons will be showing up in Syria in the next few weeks. I've also seen Chinese AT Weapons in the hands of Syrian Rebels. If Turkey enters the conflict by moving troops into Syria West of the Euphrates River to create safe zones for Syrian Civilians what will Russia do? Attack the Turks? Will they fly into Turkish Airspace again? Will they clash with the Israeli Air Force over Lebanon, or over the Sea like almost happened over the Weekend? Putin may be taking on more then he can handle. He's playing with fire.
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