F-35 flies against A-4s: F-35 pilots lyrical about F-35

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spazsinbad

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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 02:13

A ShalalLookieLooLeeLOOK at that exercise....
Tests show F-35s can share data with older aircraft
28 Aug 2015 Andrea Shalal

"Aug 28 Two weeks of joint testing of the Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jet at a California air base by the Royal Netherlands Air Force showed that the new stealthy jets are able to share a significant amount of data with older warplanes, the pilot in charge of Dutch F-35 testing told Reuters.

Colonel Albert De Smit, commander of the Netherlands operational test detachment, said the testing sought to validate that the new fifth-generation F-35s could share useable data with older F-16s and aerial refueling aircraft via the Link 16 system.

He said the results showed that during combat, the F-35 could help relay key targeting, surveillance and other data to less capable F-16s and other planes, in much the same way that the U.S. Air Force's F-22 fighter jets work with older aircraft.

"The amount of information that we can share is very promising," De Smit said in a telephone interview this week. "It provides fourth generation aircraft with information that they normally would not have ... It looks like they're going to be able to execute a better mission" if used together with F-35 jets.

He added that it could take months to fully evaluate the results of the tests, which involved two to three Dutch and British F-35s, as well as Dutch F-16s, refueling planes and a small fleet of A-4 Skyhawks posing as enemy aircraft....

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/ ... 0720150828
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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m

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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 02:43

spazsinbad wrote:A ShalalLookieLooLeeLOOK at that exercise....
Tests show F-35s can share data with older aircraft
28 Aug 2015 Andrea Shalal

"Aug 28 Two weeks of joint testing of the Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jet at a California air base by the Royal Netherlands Air Force showed that the new stealthy jets are able to share a significant amount of data with older warplanes, the pilot in charge of Dutch F-35 testing told Reuters.

Colonel Albert De Smit, commander of the Netherlands operational test detachment, said the testing sought to validate that the new fifth-generation F-35s could share useable data with older F-16s and aerial refueling aircraft via the Link 16 system.

He said the results showed that during combat, the F-35 could help relay key targeting, surveillance and other data to less capable F-16s and other planes, in much the same way that the U.S. Air Force's F-22 fighter jets work with older aircraft.

"The amount of information that we can share is very promising," De Smit said in a telephone interview this week. "It provides fourth generation aircraft with information that they normally would not have ... It looks like they're going to be able to execute a better mission" if used together with F-35 jets.

He added that it could take months to fully evaluate the results of the tests, which involved two to three Dutch and British F-35s, as well as Dutch F-16s, refueling planes and a small fleet of A-4 Skyhawks posing as enemy aircraft....

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/ ... 0720150828

According the RNLAF:
o 2 Dutch F-35's A's (test equipment)
o 6 US/UK F-35 A/B
o 6 Dutch F-16s
o 1 Dutch KDC-10 tanker aircraft
o 1 American DC-10-transport
o 5 American A-4 Skyhawk fighter jets
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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 15:28

New blog from Maj. Pascal Smaal, for Dutch and Pics click on the link

https://www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/f-3 ... htsvlieger

Saturday August 29
Star Wars in the cockpit
My aviator helmet comes straight out of Star Wars. Super Cool. The plane has no head-up display anymore. All the information you need as a pilot, is simply projected on the inside of my visor. I see all kinds of tactical information on it. Consider data from my radar and various other sensors, but also the information my wingman sees with its sensors.

When it gets dark, I can project images from the infrared camera of the F-35 on my visor. These cameras give me a continuous 360 degree view around the aircraft. Everywhere I move my head, I see shades of an infrared image of the world. Also underneath the aircraft is a camera. So when I look down, I do not see my legs, but I look right through the plane. You look straight into the world beneath you.

Apart from the infrared image, I can also select a night vision filter. The same as my F-16 colleagues and other aircrews have when they fly with so-called night vision goggles. That gives me the night 360 degree view of my environment. That not only sounds very cool, but also provides optimal situational awareness at night.

The helmet is very comfortable. The inner shell is poured on my head, so it fits perfectly. In addition, the helmet is also relatively light. That is extremely important with all the G-forces generated during a flight.

There's also a built-in active noise reduction system in my helmet. This produces a sort of counter sound. This allows for example that the noise of the engines is muted. Finally, there is also the option to work with voice commands. Change radio channels or set navigation points, everything is voice-controlled. In short, the F-35 aircraft is of the 5th generation, but also the F-35 aviator helmet is ahead of its time.

Smiley
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spazsinbad

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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 16:07

Draken Supports Multinational F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Exercise
31 Aug 2015 PRNewswire

"LAKELAND, Fla., -- Draken International, the leading global provider of contract air services, recently supported operational testing of the F-35 at Edwards Air Force Base by flying the company's A-4K fighter jets as simulated adversaries. The large force training exercise was initiated by the 323rd Test and Evaluation Squadron and supported by the Joint Strike Fighter Operational Test Team from Aug. 17-28. This was the first time any commercial air services company had provided adversary support for the F-35.

Draken flew as many as five of their A-4K aircraft at a time as adversaries in support of F-35 operational testing against both Royal Netherlands Air Force and Royal Air Force F-35A and F-35B aircraft as well as Royal Netherlands F-16 Vipers.

Draken's A-4K aircraft are equipped with 4th generation technology such as Pulse Doppler radar, electronic attack pods, and ground controllers to provide realistic threat presentations for integrated F-35 operational testing. The test exercise will enable an initial assessment of 4th and 5th generation fighter integration, including Link-16 interoperability aspects. The lessons learned will lay the groundwork for future cooperation between 4th and 5th generation fighters and will help shape F-35A tactics.

Draken Pilot Jeff Scott comments, "As a former Marine F-35 squadron commander and now Draken A-4 aggressor, I feel fortunate to be able to support the next generation premier fighter aircraft in this capacity. Our goal was to present a realistic adversary with our radar-equipped aircraft and challenge their systems. As you would expect, we were impressed by the F-35 and its pilots. They performed with state-of-the-art precision and we look forward to being their sparring partner again very soon."

Draken's support of the F-35 was historic, but it will assuredly not be the last time the company supports such an exercise. Draken maintains the world's largest privately owned fleet of fighter aircraft and is the only commercial air services provider with 4th generation fighter capabilities. This uniquely positions the company to meet the tremendous demand for realistic training adversaries at a fraction of the cost of military jets.

Draken CEO Jared Isaacman states, "It is such a privilege for us to be able to provide such critical and realistic training to the global F-35 community while at the same time realizing enormous cost savings for the Department of Defense and American taxpayers."

Draken VP of Business Development Sean Gustafson adds, "We're excited to be supporting such an important global defense initiative as the F-35 and also very proud of the entire organization for a number of recent achievements. In addition to the F-35 training exercise, Draken has also recently supported the USAF's large force exercise 'Northern Lightning', USMC live-fire close air support for JTAC training, and aggressor support for the French Navy. In fact, this past week Draken conducted flight operations nearly simultaneously in France, Cherry Point NC, Yuma, AZ, Lakeland, FL and of course Edwards AFB in CA."

Commercial air services have been around for decades, providing dramatic cost savings to the defense industry over the use of military aircraft. The difference with Draken is the vast size of the company's fleet and its unique 4th generation capabilities. This makes Draken the most credible and capable provider of adversary training, ship defense services, JTAC training and other unique mission sets."

Source: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 35142.html
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 17:20

joost wrote:New blog from Maj. Pascal Smaal, for Dutch and Pics click on the link

https://www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/f-3 ... htsvlieger

Saturday August 29
Star Wars in the cockpit
My aviator helmet comes straight out of Star Wars. Super Cool. The plane has no head-up display anymore. All the information you need as a pilot, is simply projected on the inside of my visor. I see all kinds of tactical information on it. Consider data from my radar and various other sensors, but also the information my wingman sees with its sensors.

When it gets dark, I can project images from the infrared camera of the F-35 on my visor. These cameras give me a continuous 360 degree view around the aircraft. Everywhere I move my head, I see shades of an infrared image of the world. Also underneath the aircraft is a camera. So when I look down, I do not see my legs, but I look right through the plane. You look straight into the world beneath you.

Apart from the infrared image, I can also select a night vision filter. The same as my F-16 colleagues and other aircrews have when they fly with so-called night vision goggles. That gives me the night 360 degree view of my environment. That not only sounds very cool, but also provides optimal situational awareness at night.

The helmet is very comfortable. The inner shell is poured on my head, so it fits perfectly. In addition, the helmet is also relatively light. That is extremely important with all the G-forces generated during a flight.

There's also a built-in active noise reduction system in my helmet. This produces a sort of counter sound. This allows for example that the noise of the engines is muted. Finally, there is also the option to work with voice commands. Change radio channels or set navigation points, everything is voice-controlled. In short, the F-35 aircraft is of the 5th generation, but also the F-35 aviator helmet is ahead of its time.

Smiley


Version 3 Helmet?
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 18:12

Not likely as they (Gen 3) just entered production.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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zenith

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Unread post01 Sep 2015, 22:35

Image

A-4M E-M Chart
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Unread post02 Sep 2015, 00:08

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Unread post02 Sep 2015, 00:45

Early A-4M 1971 Performance Data 96 NATOPS pages in 48 PDF pages attached - text searchable.
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Unread post02 Sep 2015, 06:08

In this photo we can see the two A-4Ns are not manned for the otherwise four ship sortie of ex-RNZAF Skyhawks:

http://www.edwards.af.mil/shared/media/ ... 59-004.jpg
_________________

Second photo shows the N147EM ex-USN last A-4F, ex-A4G, Ex-RNZAF A-4K Kahu now DRAKEN mentioned in the history on page one of this thread: http://www.edwards.af.mil/shared/media/ ... 59-005.jpg

HISTORY: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27850&p=300213&hilit=N147EM#p300213
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Unread post02 Sep 2015, 14:25

Here is a video from the exercise

https://youtu.be/9rlVjCBquU0
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Unread post02 Sep 2015, 16:25

zenith wrote:Image

A-4M E-M Chart

F-16 EM diagram at similar altitude
Image
i have to be honest, in my opinion the F-16 is just so so much better than A-4, it have something like 2 times the turn rate
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Unread post07 Sep 2015, 16:22

I do not believe this quote has been quoted before but apologies if so... YES IT HAS - in a slightly different format of translation which to me makes a lot of difference - you be the judge. Anyway go here for the other translation of same info: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=27856&p=300286&hilit=Smaal+formidable#p300286
Dutch air force testing F-35/F-16 integration
25 Aug 2015 Elmer van Hest, AIRheads/EH

"...The Dutch F-35s are part of 323 squadron and are currently based at Edwards Air Force Base in California, home of advanced military aviation testing in the US. The F-35s are used in tests alongside Arizona-based RNLAF F-16s, involving air-to-ground scenarios as well as air-to-air scenarios. “We want to experience the difference the F-35 makes in such scenarios. And I can tell you, that’s a lot”, writes Smaal in his blog. He is one of four Dutch pilots now trained to fly the new fighter.

Situational awareness in the F-35 is considerably more impressive thanks to the aircraft’s sensitive sensors. Smaal: “Even while I was still preparing for take off, I could already share this information with my formation. On another occasion, four F-16s had a hard time beating a flight of four A-4 Skyhawks. We added just one F-35 to the flight and suddenly became a hundred times more effective.”..."

Source: http://airheadsfly.com/2015/08/25/dutch ... tegration/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Unread post08 Sep 2015, 05:14

zero-one wrote:
eloise wrote:Anyone here have EM graph of A-4? how agile it is compare to F-16?
why did they used F-16 + F-35 vs A-4 though ? why not opposite ( F-35+ A-4 vs F-16) ? A-4 seem to have worse kinematic characteristics compared to F-16



I'd have to agree, using an A-4 is no longer tactically representative of future or even current threats.

I understand that the purpose was simply to see how the F-35 would integrate with 4th gen platforms on an operation
but the use of substandard threat equipment may give false impressions of effectiveness.

I'm happy that the Norwegians partially addressed the maneuverability issue with the F-35A but I don't understand what
they mean by "the F-35 is slightly more robust".

He was talking about weight, so maybe what he meant was that the F-35 was less likely to be affected by turbulence or such


A-4 no longer tactically representative of future or current threats? Substandard threat equipment?

What are you talking about? If you didn't notice, the most numerous adversary aircraft in the United States is a T-38 that does not have a radar, EA/EW or even a CATM missile. The T-38 also runs out of gas in about 30 minutes and can't turn. The Draken A-4K's have the same radar that is in the F-16A, RWR, countermeasures, 1553 databus for EA/EW pods and CATM missiles. The endurance is nearly 3 hours and very maneuverable. There is a reason that the Navy kept them as an adversary aircraft for so long.

As far as tactically relevant is concerned, look at all the hot spot regions of the world and the aircraft they are flying. Mig-21's, Mig-23's and Mig-29A's, most of which have equal or less sensor capability to the A-4K.

Sorry to be defensive, I just thought that commentary was way off base.
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Unread post08 Sep 2015, 05:17

MD wrote:
zero-one wrote:
I'd have to agree, using an A-4 is no longer tactically representative of future or even current threats.


Meh. I can see the A-4 for WVR representation of L-39 style threats or possibly the few remaining MiG-17 variants around. Doesn't hurt for some good dissimilar work.



Then you don't know the performance of an A-4 relative to an L-39 or Mig-17. We actually have operated all of those types series you listed. The L-39 and Mig-17 are good for airshows. The A-4 is very capable. Look up the thrust-to-weight ratios, endurance, sensor capabilities, armament, etc of an A-4K vs the other aircraft mentioned.
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