Page 3 of 9

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 02 Aug 2015, 15:43
by spazsinbad
Over on previous page 'bring_it_on' asked:
"Any idea about when VMFA-211 gets its F-35B's (schedule) and whether they'll get 3I or not? As I understand all aircraft coming out of production are now standardized around block 3I. Is that correct?"

I was shocked to read earlier that some readers do not read all the posts or sub sections of this forum - 'reading is boring so I read so you don't have to' to parody/paraphrase WiB itself (easy to do huh) and I'm not casting aspersions but....

Go here for some more beer: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=26871&p=297279&hilit=attack#p297279

& from the USMC Aviation Plan 2015: https://marinecorpsconceptsandprograms. ... 20Plan.pdf (16.5Mb)

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 02 Aug 2015, 16:02
by bring_it_on
Thanks Spaz, any idea whether the Marines have any 3I aircraft? I seem to vaguely remember something written about the time of OT-1 that some of the jets on the Wasp were Block 3i, while -121's jets were block 2b.

I do know about the info released by the Marines about squadrons transitioning, I just wanted some more specific dates on when they begin getting their jets and what block they are.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 02 Aug 2015, 20:42
by SpudmanWP
All but 1 one of LRIP 2-8 Bs are planed to be Block 3F but the end of 2018. All Post-LRIP8 are produced at Block 3i until 3F is released

This is the flow:
2017/2019 - 32 Bs become 3i starting in Q1 2017 (Quarterly plan = 2-4-7-7-3-3-3-2-1)
2018 - 50 (32 from above + 18 produced at 3i) Bs becomes 3F starting in Q2 2018 (Quarterly plan = 16-16-17-0-1)
2019 - The last B Block 3F upgrade is in Q2 2019

(Note: There are 6 Bs that were also planned for conversion to 3F in FY16/17 as part of the SDD & OTE fleets)

http://www.dtic.mil/procurement/Y2016/Navy/P40_0592_BSA-1_BA-5_APP-1506N_PB_2016.pdf

This doc also has the complete Concurrency list.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 02 Aug 2015, 21:39
by bring_it_on
Thanks Spud..

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 02 Aug 2015, 21:51
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'SWP' - my reading does not usually get to that 'eye-glazing' stuff (not my part of ship) but what a list of concurrency fixes - very interestin'.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 00:46
by quicksilver
Notably, one does not hear anything from the operators about how 2B sucks. Of course, the tin-hatters and others will claim conspiracy and duress, etc etc. They would be, once again, wrong -- and clearly in denial.

Wake up folks. This is an awesome machine, and it's only getting better.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 02:39
by weasel1962
I think doubters do not realise that part of the lower LRIP readiness is probably due to the concurrency retrofits. I would expect readiness to be significantly increased once that is reduced to just software updates like the F-16s.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 06:16
by Corsair1963
VMFA-121 has reached IOC. Yet, are they still flight restrictions on it's F-35B's???

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 06:29
by charlielima223
As the F-35 goes through IOC on to FOC, there will be some minor issues that come up that no engineer or technician could have foreseen. Not saying that the F-35 is a terrible aircraft but I found this picture that brings a smile to my face.

Image

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 06:43
by spazsinbad
Not sure what 'Corsair1963' is asking - are these 'engine not modified' flight restrictions or Block 2B flight restrictions? In any event this is what 2B has in store:
Marine Joint Strike Fighter on Track to Meet 2015 Goal
02 Jun 2014 Dave Majumdar

"...However, with the delivery of Block 2B, the aircraft will be cleared to operate at 550 knot KCAS, Mach 1.2, 50 degrees angle of attack and 5.5G, Van Camp said. However, the F-35B will not be cleared to its full 630 knots KCAS, Mach 1.6, and 7Gs envelope until Block 3F is delivered. Further, with Block 2B, the aircraft’s maximum ceiling will be limited to 40,000ft rather than the full 50,000ft ceiling required for the full Block 3F operational capability...."

Source: http://news.usni.org/2014/06/02/marine- ... -2015-goal

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 07:19
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:Not sure what 'Corsair1963' is asking - are these 'engine not modified' flight restrictions or Block 2B flight restrictions? In any event this is what 2B has in store:
Marine Joint Strike Fighter on Track to Meet 2015 Goal
02 Jun 2014 Dave Majumdar

"...However, with the delivery of Block 2B, the aircraft will be cleared to operate at 550 knot KCAS, Mach 1.2, 50 degrees angle of attack and 5.5G, Van Camp said. However, the F-35B will not be cleared to its full 630 knots KCAS, Mach 1.6, and 7Gs envelope until Block 3F is delivered. Further, with Block 2B, the aircraft’s maximum ceiling will be limited to 40,000ft rather than the full 50,000ft ceiling required for the full Block 3F operational capability...."

Source: http://news.usni.org/2014/06/02/marine- ... -2015-goal



Pretty big restrictions and isn't Block3F not going to be available until the end of 2017???

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 07:31
by spazsinbad
These BLOCK parameters have been known for some time - why complain about it now? The USMC have known about it along with everyone else including whatever else is missing from BLOCK 3F in BLOCK 3B bearing in mind USAF go IOC with BLOCK 3i (which is the same as 2B just with some different hardware to enable it). Shocka.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 07:39
by geogen
Corsair1963 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Not sure what 'Corsair1963' is asking - are these 'engine not modified' flight restrictions or Block 2B flight restrictions? In any event this is what 2B has in store:
Marine Joint Strike Fighter on Track to Meet 2015 Goal
02 Jun 2014 Dave Majumdar

"...However, with the delivery of Block 2B, the aircraft will be cleared to operate at 550 knot KCAS, Mach 1.2, 50 degrees angle of attack and 5.5G, Van Camp said. However, the F-35B will not be cleared to its full 630 knots KCAS, Mach 1.6, and 7Gs envelope until Block 3F is delivered. Further, with Block 2B, the aircraft’s maximum ceiling will be limited to 40,000ft rather than the full 50,000ft ceiling required for the full Block 3F operational capability...."

Source: http://news.usni.org/2014/06/02/marine- ... -2015-goal



Pretty big restrictions and isn't Block3F not going to be available until the end of 2017???


3F Fully operational capability probably won't be achieved until 2020 at the earliest, and perhaps not even until 2021 or 2022.

And more than the performance related issues, it is arguably more the restricted combat capability in not being able to match all the systems and munitions -- which the existing AV-8B II has combat capacity to employ -- which is a bigger issue. e.g., CBU munitions are a considerable deterrence and capability which the Harrier II can employ, as are stand-off Maverick missiles vs high-speed moving targets. Those and other weapons most likely won't be cleared for operational capability on F-35B jets until at least achieving full operational 3F and possibly even block 4.

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 07:48
by Corsair1963
geogen wrote:

Pretty big restrictions and isn't Block3F not going to be available until the end of 2017???


3F Fully operational capability probably won't be achieved until 2020 at the earliest, and perhaps not even until 2021 or 2022.

And more than the performance related issues, it is arguably more the restricted combat capability in not being able to match all the systems and munitions -- which the existing AV-8B II has combat capacity to employ -- which is a bigger issue. e.g., CBU munitions are a considerable deterrence and capability which the Harrier II can employ, as are stand-off Maverick missiles vs high-speed moving targets. Those and other weapons most likely won't be cleared for operational capability on F-35B jets until at least achieving full operational 3F and possibly even block 4.
[/quote]

Do you have an official source to support that claim? As 3F is suppose to be ready by fall of 2017!

Re: Marine's declare IOC

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2015, 08:11
by SpudmanWP
Corsair1963 wrote:VMFA-121 has reached IOC. Yet, are they still flight restrictions on it's B's???


Only restrictions as they relate to Block 2B, nothing else like previous "stay the hell away from storms" restrictions.


geogen wrote:3F Fully operational capability probably won't be achieved until 2020 at the earliest, and perhaps not even until 2021 or 2022.



Put the crack pipe down and step away from the keyboard :)