6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 00:48
by zerion
Six Lockheed F-35B jets land on ship for Marine Corps testing

May 18 Six U.S. F-35B fighter jets built by Lockheed Martin Corp landed on the USS Wasp amphibious warship on Monday for two weeks of operational testing required before the Marine Corps can declare a first squadron of F-35s ready for combat use in July, according to a U.S. defense official.

The testing, taking place off the coast of Virginia, will involve the six F-35 B-model jets, the highest number of F-35s ever used on a Navy warship to date, as well as Marine Corps pilots, maintenance personnel, and logistics experts, said the source, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

The tests will check the ability of the stealthy jets to integrate into flight and deck operations on board the ship. They will include operations and weapons loading at day and night, the jets' ability to coordinate digitally with an on-board logistics system call ALIS, and how well the crew can deal with scheduled and unexpected repairs at sea...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/ ... ompanyNews

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 02:24
by Jon
From what I've heard is it's four jets from VMFA-121 and two from VMFAT-501.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 03:12
by spazsinbad
It is all over before it started.
6 F-35's head to sea for testing...
18 May 2015 via Reuters SNAFU solomon

"I wonder what lies we'll hear from this testing?" [That is it - great post - marvellous insight - oughtta be congratulated]

Source: http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com.au/20 ... sting.html

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 03:26
by KamenRiderBlade
spazsinbad wrote:It is all over before it started.
6 F-35's head to sea for testing...
18 May 2015 via Reuters SNAFU solomon

"I wonder what lies we'll hear from this testing?" [That is it - great post - marvellous insight - oughtta be congratulated]

Source: http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com.au/20 ... sting.html


His seething hatred for the F-35 is snarling out like a rabid dog.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 03:36
by sferrin
Videos, videos, where are the videos. . .. :drool: :drool:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 03:36
by sferrin
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:It is all over before it started.
6 F-35's head to sea for testing...
18 May 2015 via Reuters SNAFU solomon

"I wonder what lies we'll hear from this testing?" [That is it - great post - marvellous insight - oughtta be congratulated]

Source: http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com.au/20 ... sting.html


His seething hatred for the F-35 is snarling out like a rabid dog.



You just know he and the rest of that crowd are praying for a crash.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 05:32
by thomonkey
can't wait for video.

Will they be using external loadouts in this testing?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 07:21
by KamenRiderBlade
sferrin wrote:You just know he and the rest of that crowd are praying for a crash.


You know I want to strap him to the EMALs test unit and launch him off the deck and into the water.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 08:47
by spazsinbad
Older BIG KNOB version of ALIS will be onboard WASP for the testing time as per:
Hitches with F-35 logistics won't delay summer launch: Lockheed executive
19 May 2015 Andrea Shalal

"...Six U.S. Marine F-35 B-model jets, which can take off from shorter runways and land like a helicopter, are slated to begin operational testing on the USS Wasp on Monday.

The larger, earlier version of ALIS was installed on the ship ahead of the test and used to maintain the jets participating in the tests, Streznetcky said. He forecast a "seamless transition" once the jets arrived on board from Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort in South Carolina...."

Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hitches-f ... 23050.html

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 16:07
by cantaz
thomonkey wrote:Will they be using external loadouts in this testing?


Almost certainly not, since this test is limited to getting the Marines ready for IOC with 2B and there are no external stuff included in 2B.

Can't wait until Sol gets really old and crazy, maybe in another 10 years he'll start claiming that all F-35 combat footages and photos are fakes.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 17:18
by bring_it_on
Six U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lightning II jet aircraft arrived Monday evening aboard the USS WASP off the coast of the United States’ Eastern Seaboard to mark the beginning of the first shipboard phase of the F-35B Operational Test (OT-1).

The at-sea period will continue aboard USS WASP for the next two weeks, with fleet representative aircraft and maintenance personnel from Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22, Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, and Marine Aviation Logistics Squadrons 13 and 31.

OT-1 will assess the integration of the F-35B while operating across a wide array of flight and deck operations. Specific OT-1 objectives include demonstrating and assessing day and night flight operations in varying aircraft configurations; digital interoperability of aircraft and ship systems; F-35B landing signal officer's launch and recovery software; day and night weapons loading; and all aspects of maintenance, logistics, and sustainment support of the F-35B while deployed at sea. Additionally, the U.S. Navy-Marine Corps team is working closely with Naval Sea Systems Command to assess specific modifications made to USS WASP to support future deployments.

“The F-35 Lightning II is the most versatile, agile and technologically-advanced aircraft in the skies today, enabling our Corps to be the nation’s force in readiness, regardless of the threat, and regardless of the location of the battle,” said Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, the Deputy Commandant for Marine Corps Aviation. “As we modernize our fixed-wing aviation assets for the future, the continued development and fielding of the short take-off and vertical landing, the F-35B remains the centerpiece of this effort.”

Data collected and lessons learned during OT-1 will lay the groundwork for F-35B deployments aboard U.S. Navy amphibious carriers following the Marine Corps’ F-35B initial operating capability declaration planned for this coming July.


https://www.f35.com/news/detail/u.s.-ma ... f9351327=1

Image

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 18:57
by mrigdon
cantaz wrote:
thomonkey wrote:

Can't wait until Sol gets really old and crazy, maybe in another 10 years he'll start claiming that all F-35 combat footages and photos are fakes.


It seems to be more a case of "These Marines aren't my Marines. Go back to doing things the old way."

Frankly, I don't think the Marines have been the same since they closed the Springfield Armory. We need to go back to what works :roll:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 19:05
by bring_it_on
Has anyone ever asked him to provide any sort of credentials? or are all the sheep following him around the blog and on twitter too in awe to think of it?

As to what he will do 10 years from now? If his track record is any indication, he will most likely be advocating a higher procurement of the F-35C and the chopping up of the FA-XX ;)


U.S. Marine Corps Begins F-35B Operational Trials


ARLINGTON, Va. — Six U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lightning II jet aircraft arrived the evening on May 18 aboard USS Wasp off the Eastern Seaboard to mark the beginning of the first shipboard phase of the F-35B Operational Test (OT-1), Headquarters Marine Corps announced in a May 19 release.

The at-sea period will continue aboard USS Wasp for the next two weeks, with fleet representative aircraft and maintenance personnel from Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22, Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, and Marine Aviation Logistics Squadrons 13 and 31.

OT-1 will assess the integration of the F-35B while operating across a wide array of flight and deck operations. Specific OT-1 objectives include demonstrating and assessing day and night flight operations in varying aircraft configurations; digital interoperability of aircraft and ship systems; F-35B landing signal officer's launch and recovery software; day and night weapons loading; and all aspects of maintenance, logistics and sustainment support of the F-35B while deployed at sea. Additionally, the U.S. Navy-Marine Corps team is working closely with Naval Sea Systems Command to assess specific modifications made to USS Wasp to support future deployments.

“The F-35 Lightning II is the most versatile, agile and technologically advanced aircraft in the skies today, enabling our Corps to be the nation’s force in readiness, regardless of the threat and regardless of the location of the battle,” said LtGen Jon Davis, the deputy commandant for Marine Corps Aviation. “As we modernize our fixed-wing aviation assets for the future, the continued development and fielding of the short takeoff and vertical landing, the F-35B remains the centerpiece of this effort.”

Data collected and lessons learned during OT-1 will lay the groundwork for F-35B deployments aboard U.S. Navy amphibious carriers following the Marine Corps’ F-35B initial operating capability declaration planned for July.


http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories ... 35-ot.html

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 19:52
by sferrin
bring_it_on wrote:Has anyone ever asked him to provide any sort of credentials? or are all the sheep following him around the blog and on twitter too in awe to think of it?


Solomon? I doubt he has any. :lmao:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 20:31
by newmanfrigan
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
sferrin wrote:You just know he and the rest of that crowd are praying for a crash.


You know I want to strap him to the EMALs test unit and launch him off the deck and into the water.



That would be as close to being a Marine as he ever got. Hitting the water, off of a boat.

DO IT!

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 20:45
by spazsinbad
USMC OT-1 kicks off with Lightning II aircraft landing aboard USS Wasp :mrgreen: LIES LIES LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil: + Photos
19 May 2015 Lance Cpl. Remington Hall, Headquarters Marine Corps

"... “It’s an interim half-step between fully deployed operations and development tests,” said Maj. Richard Rusnok, the Marine Operational and Test Evaluation Squadron 22 F-35B Detachment officer in charge, and one of the primary pilots for the exercise.

OT-1 is the connecting block between the testing team, engineers and fleet operations, according to Rusnok. The equipment, personnel and support will all represent what will be used in the fleet field of operations for this aircraft, he added.

The six aircraft are from Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, Marine Aircraft Group 31, 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing, Beaufort, South Carolina, and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Aircraft Group 13, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, based in Yuma, Arizona....

...“With the six F-35Bs onboard, the Wasp is ready to support this first phase of operational testing with everything she’s got,” said U.S. Navy Capt. Kurt Kastner, the commanding officer of the USS Wasp (LHD-1). “It’s not every day you have the Lightning II land on your deck, so we have taken great care so that everything goes smoothly.”

After arriving, the aircraft displayed short take off, vertical landing capabilities. This was the first of many flight operations scheduled take place during OT-1.

“The performance of the Marines out here has been exceptional; they’re eager to learn and excited to transition from their legacy aircraft and come over to the F-35B,” said Rauenhorst.

Many modifications had to be made to the Wasp in order for it to accommodate the F-35B, including the installation of the Autonomic Logistics Information System known as ALIS.

“The Wasp is the only ship in the fleet that has all of the integrated F-35B modifications,” said Rusnok. “One of the most important things is they’ve installed ALIS on the ship.”

Rusnok explained that ALIS is the aircraft’s informational and technological backbone. Maintaining the aircraft is done through this program.

In addition to the technical aspects, Rusnok also said there are many new physical attributes to the ship, such as a special coating on the flight deck and flight deck equipment, and a lithium ion battery storage capability aboard ship. The U.S. Navy-Marine Corps team is working closely with Naval Sea Systems Command to assess specific modifications made to USS WASP to support future deployments.

The Marine Corps’ other objectives during the next two weeks of testing include demonstrating and assessing day and night flight operations in varying aircraft configurations, as well as day and night weapons loading. Additionally, teams will assess digital interoperability of aircraft and ship systems, F-35B landing signal officer's launch and recovery software, and all aspects of maintenance, logistics, and sustainment support of the F-35B while deployed at sea."

Two HiRez Photos: http://media.dma.mil/2015/May/19/200104 ... 99-005.JPG
&
"U.S. Marine Corps Begins F-35B Operational Trials
Marines and sailors aboard the Uss Wasp (LHD-1) secure and refuel an F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter after its arrival for the first session of operational testing, May 18, 2015. Data and information gathered from OT-1 will lay the groundwork for F-35B deployments aboard Navy amphibious ships and the announcement of the Marine Corps' initial operating capacity of the F-35B in July. The aircraft are stationed with Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, Marine Aircraft Group 31, 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing, Beaufort, South Carolina and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Aircraft Group 13, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, Yuma, Arizona. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Remington Hall/Released)" http://media.dma.mil/2015/May/19/200104 ... 99-004.JPG


http://media.dma.mil/2015/May/19/200104 ... 99-003.JPG

Source: http://www.marines.mil/News/NewsDisplay ... -wasp.aspx

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 21:18
by sferrin
Only four F-35Bs? The other two must have crashed. /Sol mode


(Nice pics!)

Looks like Solomon has disabled comments on his latest F-35 whine. :lmao: Apparently testing is bogus because they haven't filled the flight deck with other helicopters getting in the way. What an idiot.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 21:49
by bring_it_on
A design fault prohibits the F-35 from taking off when other aircraft are watching. This is something that they have kept under wraps for some time. Only a handful of folks know it, but they are busy committing their time to blogging when they could actually do something meaningful for the nation ;)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 22:03
by neptune
bring_it_on wrote:A design fault prohibits the F-35 from taking off when other aircraft are watching. This is something that they have kept under wraps for some time. Only a handful of folks know it, but they are busy committing their time to blogging when they could actually do something meaningful for the nation ;)



YES,....like "NOT" blogging! :)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 May 2015, 22:58
by Jon
So far identified is:
F-35B 168719 VK-01 of VMFA-121
F-35B 168721 VK-03 of VMFA-121
F-35B 168722 VK-04 of VMFA-121
F-35B 169023 VM-10 of VMFAT-501

Edit: new to this list:
F-35B 169024 VM-11 of VMFAT-501

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 02:17
by gc
Coming from the Asia-Pacific region, i can't wait for the IOC of USMC F-35B and see them forward deployed VMFA-121 to Iwakuni. The presence of a LHA with half a dozen of stealth fighters on-board cruising through the South China Seas will send a strong signal of presence to China. I firmly believe in this great-looking aircraft. Just like the MV-22, it is unfairly maligned now but will prove to be indispensable a decade down the road.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 03:17
by spazsinbad
NOT THE CURRENT WASP TEST VIDEO but a good edit of the last one with bits I have not seen before:
USS Wasp F-35 Operations
Published on Sep 20, 2014 okrajoe

"USS Wasp Operations. Courtesy Video | Navy Media Content Services | Date: 11.12.2013. Multimedia package of operations on the USS Wasp. Also available in high definition. No audio "


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 03:36
by XanderCrews
bring_it_on wrote:Has anyone ever asked him to provide any sort of credentials?


Does pretending to be a Marine on the internet count as credentials?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 03:42
by KamenRiderBlade
XanderCrews wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:Has anyone ever asked him to provide any sort of credentials?


Does pretending to be a Marine on the internet count as credentials?


Has anybody bothered to find out his real identity / personal info so we can go to him in person and bitch slap him for every stupid post he has put up?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 03:52
by XanderCrews
sferrin wrote: Apparently testing is bogus because they haven't filled the flight deck with other helicopters getting in the way. What an idiot.


LOL and guess how we know Sol has never been on a MEU??

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 18:51
by bring_it_on
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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 21:52
by johnwill
Regarding the video, I noticed at 1:24 the airplane is landing while facing aft on the boat. That is the first time I had seen that. Anyone know why it would do that? If the boat has forward speed, wouldn't that possibly cause hot air to be ingested into the engine inlet? And at 1:32 there is smoke coming from underneath the airplane just forward of the engine exhaust nozzle. Is that normal? Anyone seen it before?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 22:45
by sferrin
johnwill wrote:Regarding the video, I noticed at 1:24 the airplane is landing while facing aft on the boat. That is the first time I had seen that. Anyone know why it would do that? If the boat has forward speed, wouldn't that possibly cause hot air to be ingested into the engine inlet? And at 1:32 there is smoke coming from underneath the airplane just forward of the engine exhaust nozzle. Is that normal? Anyone seen it before?


I've seen the smoke in a number of videos.

You can see it pretty good here around 2:58, and a more a bit earlier in the video.



Frankly I'm surprised the Bill Sweetmans of the world haven't glommed onto it and gone full retard and told the world about the "airplane that catches on fire every time it performs a vertical landing" or some such nonsense.

P.S. They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 22:52
by cantaz
sferrin wrote:P.S. They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.


Better yet, uncut video of all 6 landing in quick succession.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 23:17
by sferrin
cantaz wrote:
sferrin wrote:P.S. They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.


Better yet, uncut video of all 6 landing in quick succession.



I would love that. Get on it LM. :mrgreen:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 23:18
by spazsinbad
The video shows 2013 DT II testing when different wind envelopes were tested that were prior tested ashore - for example: (whilst we cannot see the wind in the flags it can be difficult to gauge WOD in video). A SHOL diagram will be produced eventually (perhaps not released to public) that will show the WOD strength and direction limits for VLs aboard every type of LHA (and eventually CVFs with more diagrams for SRVLs IF these are pursued). I'll hunt down DT II reports on this forum - the first quote will be here somewhere.

INTENTION for DT I TEST SHOL diagram here: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=24438&p=283226&hilit=SHOL#p283226

ON same thread scroll down to find the 'forward' in the VL testing on WASP DT II: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=24438&p=274982&hilit=forward#p274982
"We opened out to 10 knots of crosswind from the right and 15 knots from the left, which is a super envelope. It was a great success.”...

...During the 18-day sea trial the two jets completed 95 take-offs and vertical landings, both forward and aft-facing, and 17 night take-offs and landings in 10 days of testing...."

VX-23 Strike Test News 2014 [02 Sep]

“...SHORT TAKEOFF AND VERTICAL LANDING (STOVL)
The F-35B continued sea trials last summer aboard the USS Wasp (LHD 1). Lessons learned from the previous ship trials in 2011 were incorporated and evaluated....

...The VL wind envelope was further expanded, with up to 10 knots of tail wind and 15 knots of crosswind...."

Source: http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/index ... oad&id=820 (PDF)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 23:24
by bring_it_on
More videos and pictures will come. Reporters are going to be given a chance to come aboard as well on the weekend iirc.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 23:27
by sferrin
bring_it_on wrote:More videos and pictures will come. Reporters are going to be given a chance to come aboard as well on the weekend iirc.


I'll bet Bill Sweetman's invite gets lost in the mail again. :lmao:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 May 2015, 23:55
by quicksilver
johnwill wrote:Regarding the video, I noticed at 1:24 the airplane is landing while facing aft on the boat. That is the first time I had seen that. Anyone know why it would do that? If the boat has forward speed, wouldn't that possibly cause hot air to be ingested into the engine inlet? And at 1:32 there is smoke coming from underneath the airplane just forward of the engine exhaust nozzle. Is that normal? Anyone seen it before?


In addtion to what Spaz posted...

"Facing aft" is also more formally called a bow-to-stern approach. Allows the jets to recover without the ship having to turn into the wind. Ship drivers like that flexibility. Other non-standard approach is the cross-axial (i.e. 90 degrees to the longitudinal axis of the ship).

Jet doesn't "know" the natural wind, it only reacts to the relative wind.

Link below to Harrier doing similar thing during Libya ops.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 8143393210

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 00:30
by bring_it_on
sferrin wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:More videos and pictures will come. Reporters are going to be given a chance to come aboard as well on the weekend iirc.


I'll bet Bill Sweetman's invite gets lost in the mail again. :lmao:


LOL, given that he is an international editor I doubt he would be representing AvWeek. Most likely Ms. Butler. :mrgreen:

NOT A VIDEO OF TESTING -


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 01:40
by quicksilver
"They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.?

No, "they" don't.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 02:02
by mrigdon
quicksilver wrote:"They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.?

No, "they" don't.


Hear, hear. The proper way to deal with unhinged critics is to not acknowledge their existence. It will only give credibility to their irrational rantings.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 03:04
by spazsinbad
Another reference to DT II 'out of wind over deck straight down axial deck - PERHAPS (we don't know)' testing WASP.
ARES - F-35B DT 2 Update: A few hours on the USS Wasp
05 Sep 2013 Amiable Butler

"...Peter Wilson, a BAE test pilot, was able to test the F-35B landing at four headings, each 90-deg. apart. He says the testing validates the aircraft can conduct VLs at any heading on the ship...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/blog/f-35b-dt-2 ... s-uss-wasp

EARLIER...
Navy Sees Few Anomalies in F-35B Ship Trials
31 Oct 2011 The Butler Did It | Onboard the USS Wasp

"...Pilots were qualified using the heart of the Harrier wind envelope. During testing they have expanded that up to a 30-kt. headwind, 10-kt. crosswind and 5-kt. tailwind. Pilots report good handling qualities, Cordell says...."

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... avy&next=0

AND back to the future.
Jumping Jack Flash
July 2014 unknown author AIR International F-35 Special Ed.

"...As part of the test programme, VX-23 undertook crosswind and tailwind envelope expansion. This included what Peter Wilson described as “some very interesting test points” with the aircraft positioned with a tailwind – which involved tracking the centreline with various bank angles moving backwards at 25 knots or so, “really testing close to the limits of the propulsion system’s capability. So we’ve hit the corners of the envelope going backwards and sideways”.

VX-23 also conducted vertical landings with a 15-knot crosswind and with expected hot gas ingestion from the ship’s funnels. “We’ve completed extreme descent rates touching down at 12ft/sec and not exceeded the load limits of the landing gear,” said Wilson.

Crosswind testing is an interesting scenario.

There are two ways to achieve the required objective. The pilot can generate crosswind in the hover by turning 90-degrees away from a headwind to generate crosswind from the natural wind and then move sideways over the ground to achieve the required test condition. The wind can be forced to come at any angle to the aircraft. The alternate way is to test when the desired wind speed is available naturally, pedal turning the aircraft until the direction required by the test point is achieved.

“DT II was about crosswind envelope expansion; getting out to 40 knots of headwind; tailwind envelope expansion; and the internal carriage of inert weapons during take-offs and landings for the first time,” said Wilson....

...Another aspect of STOVL ops tested during DT II determined the effect of wind coming around the ship’s island. When an aircraft is in the hover, the island is on the right. If the wind comes from the right it makes its way around the island and catches the aircraft from various angles. “That makes the hot gas coming out of the ship’s stack come at you, which is bad news. Aeroplanes don’t like ingesting hot gas: it reduces performance,” said Wilson. “We had mixed results, some good, some bad. With the wind coming from ‘round the back of the island, the aeroplane starts to feel like it’s jostling around. And the effects of the hot gas coming from around the front eroded our performance margin, but not to a point we were concerned because the aircraft has the capability to withstand the effects. We opened out to 10 knots of crosswind from the right and 15 knots from the left, which is a super envelope. It was a great success.”…

Source: AIR International F-35 Special Edition July 2014

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 03:17
by sferrin
quicksilver wrote:"They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.?

No, "they" don't.



I'll bet you're a blast at parties. :roll: :doh:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 03:44
by bring_it_on
U.S. Marines sending engine module to ship as part of F-35 testing
WASHINGTON | BY ANDREA SHALAL


May 19 The U.S. Marine Corps is "tracking very well" toward declaring a squadron of 10 F-35 jets built by Lockheed Martin Corp ready for initial combat use by July 15, Lieutenant General Jon Davis, the top general in charge of Marine Corps aviation, said on Tuesday.

In a step toward that goal, the Marine Corps will use an MV-22 tilt-rotor aircraft to transport part of the engine of the F-35 fighter jet to the USS Wasp amphibious ship during two weeks of testing that began Monday, Davis said.

"Unless something really weird happens, I think we'll be fine," he told reporters. He said he would not recommend the move until after a two-week operational readiness inspection showed the squadron was ready.


Six U.S. F-35B fighter jets landed on the USS Wasp on Monday, a milestone for the $391 billion F-35 fighter jet program as it nears the July declaration of "initial operational capability," or IOC. [ID:nL1N0Y92BV}

Davis said he would observe the testing during a trip to the USS Wasp, operating off the coast of Virginia, on Wednesday.

He will determine how easily the jets can be maneuvered around the flight deck and how well they can be repaired at sea, including possible work on the jet's F135 engine, built by Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp.

The jet engine can be broken down into five parts for transport in protective cases that can be flown on an MV-22 Osprey and swapped out in case they were needed for repairs.

Davis said one of the modules would be flown to the ship to assess the difficulty of completing engine repair at sea. He said no actual swapout was planned unless necessary.

The testing will also assess the automated logistics system called ALIS. Davis said the system was performing "pretty well" and allowed jets to be serviced and returned to the flight line in about two hours, generally in line with other aircraft.

A new portable version of the ALIS system was also making progress, he said, but it would not include the engine until December after more software changes. For now, he said, technicians needed separate laptops to service the engines.

Lockheed on Monday said it was working to resolve "relatively minor" issues with the portable version of ALIS, but the problems should not impede the Marine Corps' ability to declare the jets ready for combat this summer.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/ ... 3520150520


BTW, The Marines had some company today ;)

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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 04:20
by sferrin
Cue up the howler monkeys, "OMG engine broke on piece of crap F-35!!!!! Navy sneaking replacement onto ship."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 04:21
by KamenRiderBlade
sferrin wrote:Cue up the howler monkeys, "OMG engine broke on piece of crap F-35!!!!! Navy sneaking replacement onto ship."


Stop insulting Howler Monkeys, we all know they are smarter than the Anti-JSF crew

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 14:06
by bring_it_on
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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 20:12
by quicksilver
sferrin wrote:
quicksilver wrote:"They need to get a photo out showing all six aircraft onboard stat lest the basement crowd start up about what a bunch of liars the USMC is about having six airplanes out there. 'cuz they hidin' stuff ya know.?

No, "they" don't.



I'll bet you're a blast at parties. :roll: :doh:


Sorry, I missed the set up... :bang:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 22:18
by quicksilver

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 May 2015, 22:45
by spazsinbad
Thanks. Lowest Quality Video attached from: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/popup/405541

Highest quality of same video is 135Mb .MP4: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/videofile/2649554
"150518-N-BQ308-16 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 18, 2015) F-35 Bravo Lighting II stand ready on the deck of amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1) for day two of first phase operational testing (OT-1). Wasp, embarked with VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 is underway conducting the OT-1, which will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness to the maximum extent possible. Specifically, the ship trial will assess the integration of the F-35B while operating across a wide array of flight and deck operations, maintenance operations and logistical supply chain support in an at-sea environment. Data and lessons learned will lay the groundwork for F-35B deployments aboard U.S. Navy amphibious carriers following the Marine Corps’ F-35B initial operating capability (IOC) declaration in July 2015. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist Willam Tonacchio/Released)"

PHOTO: https://static.dvidshub.net/media/thumb ... 99_q95.jpg

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 00:39
by Dragon029
Here's a YouTube version of the video:


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 01:12
by bring_it_on
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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 01:24
by sferrin
where did you find those?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 01:29
by bring_it_on

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 01:36
by sferrin
Well searching for "F-35" didn't net me some of those beauties. :shrug:

edit: Interesting. "OT-1" gets them but not "F-35".

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 01:40
by bring_it_on
sferrin wrote:Well searching for "F-35" didn't net me some of those beauties. :shrug:


Ahhh..Best way to search on that site is to either search for OT-1, or the name of the Pfc that is doing the pictures. Look up OT-1 results and then search individual photographers.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 01:57
by quicksilver
Did you not try the two links I provided in the last post on page 3 of this thread?

They're all right there...

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 04:45
by spazsinbad
Your F-35B OT-1 Questions, Answered
21 May 2015 LM PR

"Art “Turbo” Tomassetti is no stranger to Marine aviation – or the F-35. A former Marine Colonel, Turbo has served in various roles from flight instructor to test pilot. Later in his career, he was chosen to be the lead government pilot for the X-35 program, and in that role flew the first ever short takeoff, level supersonic dash and vertical landing on a single flight.

In his current position, he serves as the F-35B U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) program manager on the F-35 team at Lockheed Martin. We sat down with Turbo to ask a few questions about the USMC’s Operational Test-1 and the future of Marine aviation with the F-35B.

How will the F-35 support the Marine Corps once it reaches operational capability?
Today legacy aircraft go out to an LHA or LHD (a U.S. Navy assault ship) as part of a Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU). They operate a variety of rotor, tilt rotor, and Harrier aircraft. The typical deployment for a current aircraft community is six airplanes – so a squadron that has 14 airplanes detaches a piece of itself to deploy, which usually takes about six months.

That’s what we do today, and F-35 will support the MEUs of tomorrow for the Marine Corps.

What’s the difference between previous tests, Development Test-1 and 2 (DT-1 and DT-2) and Operational Test-1 (OT-1)?
So, we’ve been out to the ship before on DT-1 and DT-2 with the F-35B. The focus of that was to make sure the airplane can operate from a ship, and to determine if there’s anything on the airplane or the ship that needs to be changed in order to facilitate operations. Basically, we want to determine if the aircraft has met the requirements outlined in the customer specifications for shipboard operations.

But there are several differences between DT tests and OT- 1. First, it’s an Operational Test event, not a Developmental Test. Second, this time we’re sending six airplanes, not two. Instead of seeing if the airplane operates at the ship, the job is to figure out how best to operate the airplane on the ship. We already know it can operate – now they figure out what’s the best way to operate it? It’s an important step because it would be easy to say, “OK, just do with the F-35 what has been done with the Harrier for the last 30 years. Operate it the same way— use the same mindset for moving the airplanes around and recovery.” I think, and I hope most people would agree, that would be unfair to the F-35 because the F-35 is a different airplane. So you need to figure out what the best way to operate the F-35 is, just like they did with the Harrier decades ago.

What goes into preparing for OT-1?
This event is supported by Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 based at Marine Corps Air Station (MCAS) Yuma, Arizona, and Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron-501, based at MCAS Beaufort, South Carolina, as well as the Operational Test team. So what’s great about that is that any time you mix people up you get new ideas and points of view. They all have the same plane, but they can learn from each other by working together on the ship.

A tremendous amount of planning and preparation for OT-1 has taken place during the past several months. Some of that prep for OT-1 is fairly standard – before going to a ship, the pilots will practice on a mock-up of a ship, essentially just a copy of the deck of a ship located in the desert near MCAS Yuma. This is called Field Carrier Landing Practice (FCLP) and they’ll have the Landing Signal Officer (LSO) there in a tower, which represents the island on the ship, so they can judge the aircraft as it comes in for landing from the same vantage point they have on the ship.

What are some of the key capabilities that will distinguish the F-35 from legacy aircraft when it comes to operating at sea?
What we’ve already seen from the DT events that have taken place and what I expect we’ll continue to hear is that the airplane is much easier to handle and fly – legacy aircraft are not fly-by-wire, where the F-35 is all digital and has lots of computers to help the pilot control the airplane where and how they want to maneuver it. We will learn a lot about integrating the aircraft with the ship as well as conducting multi-aircraft evolutions. The piece that we may or may not see on OT-1 because the rest of the MEU assets are not part of the event, is how the F-35’s ability to see and perceive the battlespace and what’s going on contributes to the warfighting capability of the MEU. That information can be shared with not only the Marines that are flying F-35s but can be pushed back to the ship, to the Marines on the ground and to the helicopters and tilt-rotors that are flying.

Why is it important for the warfighter to have the F-35?
The threat is constantly changing – and there’s only so much you can upgrade on a legacy aircraft. So as good as a job we do on upgrading and evolving what we have, you eventually hit a limit where you need a new aircraft.

Additionally, the F-35 is 5th Generation. The Marine Corps hasn’t had a low-observable aircraft in the past, so that’s something that can also change the way they operate. The F-35’s sensors and ability to collect and disseminate information all adds to the lethality and survivability of the plane. We also know a lot about this airplane – it knows a lot about itself. So when it comes back and tells you that something needs maintenance, that’s time saved and a big advantage. And it can help shorten maintenance times in an environment where sometimes just flying more than your opponent provides an advantage.

You want the warfighter to have a more capable airplane, an airplane that is going to enable them to be ready for the mission, more effective for the mission, and that’s going to bring them home safely at the end of the day."

Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/your-f- ... s-answered

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 15:42
by bring_it_on
ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 21, 2015) Sailors and Marines remove a generator for the F-35B Lightning II aircraft from an MV-22 Osprey assault support aircraft aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1). Wasp, with VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 embarked, is underway conducting the first phase of operational testing (OT-1), which will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness in an at-sea environment. Data and lessons learned will lay the groundwork for F-35B deployments aboard U.S. Navy amphibious ships following the Marine Corps' F-35B initial operating capability (IOC) declaration in July 2015. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Elizabeth Vlahos/Released)

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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 16:12
by quicksilver
Appears to be sans LPC section. Correct?

...without 3BSN also.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 16:44
by bring_it_on
quicksilver wrote:Appears to be sans LPC section. Correct?

...without 3BSN also.


The Power module is the largest of the blocks. There are total 5 blocks for the entire F135 system.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 17:03
by sferrin
quicksilver wrote:Did you not try the two links I provided in the last post on page 3 of this thread?

They're all right there...


Didn't see them. :oops:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 17:07
by quicksilver
The best thing about those links is that you can go back periodically to see what they added. Just sort by date.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 19:12
by spazsinbad
'sferrin' DVIDS is a problematic website to find images - go there often enough and it probably gets easier but they can have a zillion photos of one event meaning sorting/going backwards by date can be tiresome. I guess there are many ways to skin the cat there but meanwhile having the URL for the photos really helps those willing to register to get the best resolution pics / videos available and of course YMMV & site can be SLOW. So here is the URL for the engine photos:

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1949783/ ... V9uTukw8kI
HI REZ: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1949783 (JPG 2.7Mb) 2100x1500 puxels

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1949777/ ... V9v-ukw8kI
HI REZ: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1949777 (JPG 2.5Mb) 2100x1500 puxybits

Zipped Gallery JPG examples may be downloaded also: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/gallery/setid/533606
ZIP file 8.8 Mbs All the four available images in HIREZ (sometimes they are NOT hirez). It is an odd website indeedy.

Five Parted Engine F135 modules from: http://www.dodig.mil/pubs/documents/DODIG-2015-111.pdf (2.2Mb)

http://www.navyrecognition.com/images/s ... very_3.jpg
&
http://www.amdo.org/JSF_Program_and_33_FW_Updates.pdf (3.5Mb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 21:30
by bring_it_on
Royal Navy aircraft technicians working within the US Marine Corps maintenance team keep the F-35B Lightning flying. Watch the aircraft launch from the USS WASP during the first operational testing of air/ship integration at sea off the Eastern Seaboard of the USA.



Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2015, 23:22
by mrigdon
bring_it_on wrote:[b]Royal Navy aircraft technicians working within the US Marine Corps maintenance team keep the F-35B Lightning flying.


I'll write the headline for FoxTrotAlpha: "F-35B is such a maintenance hog, the Marines have to impress Royal Navy into service to keep it flying" :?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 15:01
by bring_it_on
Oh yeah, just above his claims that he has been pretty "fair" to the program :), and right after his 15 point suggestions to the Pentagon on how to salvage the F-35 :)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 17:39
by XanderCrews
bring_it_on wrote:Oh yeah, just above his claims that he has been pretty "fair" to the program :), and right after his 15 point suggestions to the Pentagon on how to salvage the F-35 :)



I'm sure they are implementing it point for point, utilizing his zero years experience in the military in any capacity let alone aviation as a model of expert opinion in action

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 17:55
by cantaz
XanderCrews wrote:I'm sure they are implementing it point for point, utilizing his zero years experience in the military in any capacity let alone aviation as a model of expert opinion in action


He's being recognized for the hundreds of blog articles he expertly wrote.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:12
by bring_it_on
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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:29
by sferrin
bring_it_on wrote:
Image


"Exclusive picture, smuggled off the USS Wasp, of the flight deck bursting into flame as the Just So Farcical attempts to use it's flawed engine to take off." - Average Basement Dweller.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:34
by bring_it_on
The F-35B is known to set runways on fire ;) Of course it can't be Foxtrotalpha without a GIF

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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:42
by spazsinbad
22 May 2015 WASP F-35B images start here (look at the thumbnails for more - beware dates):

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1952153/ ... WC7tukw8kI

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1947430/f-35b-lightning-ii-ot-1-flight-test#.VWDAPOkw8kI “Marines aboard the USS Wasp (LHD-1) perform engine tests on the F-35B Lightning II during F-35B operational testing, May 20, 2015. Data and lessons learned from OT-1 will be the groundwork for future F-35B operations and deployments aboard Navy amphibious ships. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Remington Hall/Released)” https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1947430

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2015, 18:46
by sferrin
Still can't wait for the helicopter shots showing the entire ship with the six F-35s parked there. :drool:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2015, 21:22
by spazsinbad
Paucity of info so far is surprising so I'll guess the media day has not been held whilst AvWeak have not mentioned it at all - unlike most others. Anyways this is all that can be gleaned from a recent SLDinfo.
Operational Testing of the F-35B Aboard the USS Wasp
24 May 2015 SLDinfo

"...There are six F-35Bs aboard the ship, 4 from Yuma (Green Knights) and two from Beaufort (the Warlords)...."

Photo: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 60x640.jpg

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/operational-test ... -uss-wasp/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2015, 22:18
by bring_it_on
Paucity of info so far is surprising so I'll guess the media day has not been held whilst AvWeak have not mentioned it at all - unlike most others. Anyways this is all that can be gleaned from a recent SLDinfo.


The defense media visits on Tuesday. The mainstream media has been onboard.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2015, 23:19
by neptune
[quote="spazsinbad"]...gleaned from a recent SLDinfo...[quote]


..doesn't look like a full-on vertical landing...or is it??
:)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2015, 23:51
by spazsinbad
1 in on the bow. The pic shows a STO (bomb bay doors closed). Hmmmm I had thought this photo was an SLDinfo photo but no:
"150522-N-BQ308-107 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 22, 2015) As fast as its name, an F-35B Lightning II screams past a flight deck handler as it takes off during flight operations aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1). Wasp, with VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 embarked, is underway conducting the first phase of operational testing for the F-35B Lightning II aircraft, which will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness in an at-sea environment. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist William Tonacchio/Released) https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1952152 & https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1952152/ ... WKSoukw8kI

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 25 May 2015, 05:45
by neptune
neptune wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:...gleaned from a recent SLDinfo...


..doesn't look like a full-on vertical landing...or is it??
:)



...didn't notice the flaperons of course..silly me... forgot this wing needs Bernoulli's principle to lift that slow.. :oops:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 25 May 2015, 06:40
by spazsinbad
"Pratt & Whitney 150520-M-XX999-007
"Marines aboard the USS Wasp (LHD-1) preform engine tests on the F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter during F-35B operational testing, May 20, 2015. Data and lessons learned from OT-1 will be the groundwork for future F-35B operations and deployments aboard Navy amphibious ships. (U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. Remington Hall/Released)"
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... a8ed0&dl=1

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 25 May 2015, 07:18
by spazsinbad
Rather than drag up the old Oct 2011 thread about the first test period aboard WASP in Oct 2011 the PDF about things (only an abstract) will be plonked (VLed) here:
F‐35B Initial Ship Trials Presentation Abstract 2012 National Symposium of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots
06 Jul 2012 Maj Richard Rusnok, USMC (M) Mr. Peter Wilson, BAE Systems

"The test pilots of the Patuxent River F‐35 Integrated Test Force (ITF) propose to make a presentation at the Society of Experimental Test Pilots (SETP) East Coast Symposium regarding the planning and execution of the F‐35B Initial Ship Trials aboard USS Wasp (LHD‐1) during October 2011...."

https: https://www.setp.org/images/stories/F-3 ... Rusnok.pdf (86Kb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2015, 11:42
by spazsinbad
PHOTO: “150525-N-JW440-066 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 25, 2015) An F-35B Lightning II takes off from the flight deck of the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1). Wasp, with VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 embarked, is underway conducting the first phase of operational testing (OT-1) which will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness in an at-sea environment. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Rawad Madanat/Released)” https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1954565

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2015, 13:25
by bring_it_on
Defense reporters on their way to the WASP :)

Image

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2015, 17:22
by sferrin
bring_it_on wrote:Defense reporters on their way to the WASP :)

Image



I'll bet Bill isn't on that plane. :lmao:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2015, 23:54
by spazsinbad
AT SEA -- U.S. Marines Successfully Complete F-35B Night Operations during OT-1 May 21-23 during Operational Testing 1 (OT-1) [ :mrgreen: nah bleedin' daylight - have youse not seen the photos? :roll: only Mk1 eyeball used :devil: ] :doh:
26 May 2015 Public Affairs F-35 Lightning II Program

"...Of the many assessments conducted during OT-1, night operations are a critical task that both the aircraft and pilot must complete. In order to succeed, each pilot had to take off and land the F-35B four times aboard the carrier at night.

“In the developmental phases, the aircraft has been used [by test pilots] in a night environment,” said Maj. Michael H. Rountree Jr., an F-35B pilot and senior training landing signal officer for OT-1 with Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, Marine Aircraft Group 31, 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing. “However, no one has ever done it operationally. So we are taking all the lessons we are learning here and giving them to fleet aviators.”

Although the F-35B is currently the most versatile and technologically advanced aircraft in the skies, obstacles were still set in place to test the abilities of the pilot and performance of the aircraft.

“We use the night pattern for unaided recovery,” said Rountree. “We are not approved to use the night vision camera, or distributed aperture system in the ship environment yet. We are simply using the naked eye to get us onto the ship. We fly an approach that funnels us into a good position to take over and land the jet visually.”...

...“I went out there for the first time to fly at night and everything went smoothly,” said Rountree. “With the controls and interface between the pilot and aircraft so seamless and the task loading so low, this aircraft is really a joy and a pleasure to fly.”"

Source: http://www.jsf.mil/news/docs/20150526_OT1_Night_Ops.pdf (63Kb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 00:06
by gabriele
I don't get why they wouldn't be allowed to use at least the EO-DAS imagery on screen. At least. Is it intentional to put the crew in the worst possible position to build up their confidence or something...?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 00:39
by zerion
U.S. MARINES PARTNER WITH UNITED KINGDOM IN F-35B OPERATIONAL TEST
By Maj. Paul Greenberg, 10116

USS WASP, At Sea -- As the first operational test of the F-35B Lightning II takes place aboard the USS Wasp this week, service members from the United Kingdom are working alongside their U.S. Navy and Marine Corps counterparts to assess the integration of the F-35B into amphibious military operations.

“United Kingdom participation in the F-35 program has been absolutely critical to our success,” said Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, Program Executive Officer for the F-35 Lightning II Joint Program Office. “Since the beginning, UK test pilots and engineers have been fully integrated and work shoulder-to shoulder with us as we deliver the F-35 to the warfighter.”

Sixteen Royal Navy and Royal Air Force members embedded aboard the ship during the operational tests. They serve as F-35 operational assessors, ship integration team members, aircraft technicians and maintenance crews.

The Royal Navy’s vision for tactical integration of the F-35B into their current arsenal is similar to the Marine Corps’ plan to integrate the F-35 with legacy aircraft, such as the AV-8B Harrier and the F/A-18 Hornet, and gradually phase out legacy aircraft over the coming decades.

“By 2020, U.K. combat airpower will consist of Typhoon and F-35B Lightning II, a highly potent and capable mix of fourth and fifth generation fighter aircraft. With Typhoon already established as one of the premier multi-role fighters in the world, the F-35 brings a complementary next-generation level of survivability and lethality. This will ultimately provide the UK with an unprecedented level of capability in a single platform,” said Royal Navy Lt. Cmdr. Neil Mathieson, the UK’s F-35B Ship Integration Lead...

http://www.marines.mil/News/NewsDisplay ... -test.aspx]

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 01:38
by spazsinbad
One may ask how a Harrier is flown to the deck at night. Then the F-35B operational pilots will have flown FCLP at night to get their eyes adjusted to what is required (not talking about night vision here though). It is probably a pilot rule of thumb (for some oldies anyway) to fly the aircraft by visual means when possible - looking down at instruments or the Panoramic Display in the Bee case is not the best IF a visual approach/landing is possible.

The WASP will now have suitable visual (vertical) landing aids for both helos and the other VLers including the BEE.

Recently a USN Hornet collided with another Hornet (from behind/underneath) because the rear pilot was pre-occupied most likely with switchology/displays in the cockpit - rather than the simple task of flying the aircraft and LOOKING OUTSIDE; and ONLY looking inside briefly as required without developing the tunnel vision on a task (although I had thought perhaps an emergency was/had been developing for that [now dead] pilot). In that case there is another rule: Aviate - Navigate - Communicate -- Aviate includes keeping a lookout though.

WASP OLS Lights Aug 2013 photo attached below: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3712/9614 ... 0722_o.jpg

APPROACH AIDS annotated photo from NAVAIR years ago now so probably is NOT up to date with any new gizmos (for F-35Bs specifically).

LSO V/STOL 2004 NATOPS PDF for LHAs here: download/file.php?id=20369 [says the file not here now - so I'll upload anotherie.... 1Mb of PDF GOODness now attached.

AND... Lucky LAST LHA Christmas Day LIGHTS!: http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc15 ... 5b5465.jpg

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 02:20
by bring_it_on
Marine F-35B conducts first operational testing at sea


ABOARD THE AMPHIBIOUS ASSAULT SHIP WASP — The Marine Corps' latest fighter jet has completed more than 80 successful sorties as part of its first operational testing at sea.

Early Tuesday morning, F-35B joint strike fighters — the service's short-takeoff, vertical-landing variant of the aircraft — screeched across the deck of the amphibious assault ship Wasp in quick succession, racking up the tally further.

Pilots in six aircraft are now conducting day and night operations off the mid-Atlantic seaboard as the first part of the final phase of real-world testing before the aircraft reaches its long-anticipated initial operational capability milestone this July. Aircraft participating in this round of testing are drawn from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 out of Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona; Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501 out of Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, South Carolina; and Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22 out of Marine Corps Air Station New River, North Carolina.

The multi-role aircraft, which sports electronic warfare, ISR and kinetic attack capabilities, is the linchpin of the Marine Corps' future amphibious strike capability. It will be a vital tool for the service that serves as the nation's go-to crisis response force, said Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, the assistant commandant for Marine aviation, while observing the testing that began May 18 and will continue through May 29.

"We will be not just the nation's force in readiness, but the nation's force of choice," he said, touting its ability to be launched on a moment's notice from amphibious ships floating just miles off the shore of any country or continent.

Beyond basic shipboard launching and landing, test pilots have been conducting elaborate war games, pitting F-35s against each other in dogfights defined by the aircraft's next-generation sensor technology.

But perhaps the most valuable lessons learned are being gleaned by maintainers and logisticians who must figure out how to service and repair a strike fighter that is bigger than an F/A-18 Hornet and more complex than an AV-8B Harrier.

British Lt. Cdr. Beth Kitchen, who is assigned to VMFAT-501, said that has meant everything from repairing a tire to changing an engine. Those are all tasks that have been successfully mastered ashore, but deck motion, space constraints and the need to tie assets down complicate many procedures, she said.

Kitchen and the maintainers she oversees have now installed and uninstalled components including the lift fan that gives the aircraft its STOVL capability, canopies and ejection seats.
The idea is not only to ensure maintainers are correctly trained and can execute their tasks, but also to document difficulties so they can be remedied before the aircraft is fully operational and deployed. So far, however, Kitchen said they have not found the need for many changes.

"We are confident we can maintain these aircraft at sea," she said.

In fact, the biggest and most important question has now been answered regarding the aircraft's behemoth engine produced by Pratt & Whitney. One was successfully brought aboard the Wasp May 20 via MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor aircraft. It now sits in the ship's maintenance hangar.

The successful exercise proved that the engine could be placed on a custom-built cradle that fits in an Osprey without surpassing weight and balance limits that would degrade the tiltrotor's handling beyond acceptable limits.



http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/m ... /27983193/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 02:53
by bring_it_on
Image

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 03:50
by spazsinbad
U.S. MARINES PARTNER WITH UK ALLIES IN F-35B OPERATIONAL TEST ABOARD USS WASP
26 May 2015 Maj. Paul Greenberg

"...“United Kingdom participation in the F-35 program has been absolutely critical to our success,” said Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, Program Executive Officer for the F-35 Lightning II Joint Program Office. “Since the beginning, UK test pilots and engineers have been fully integrated and work shoulder-to shoulder with us as we deliver the F-35 to the warfighter.”
Sixteen Royal Navy and Royal Air Force members embedded aboard the ship during the operational tests. They serve as F-35 operational assessors, ship integration team members, aircraft technicians and maintenance crews.

The Royal Navy’s vision for tactical integration of the F-35B into their current arsenal is similar to the Marine Corps’ plan...

...During the two week operational test, the Marine Corps and U.K. counterparts are assessing the integration of the F-35B while operating across a wide array of flight and deck operations. Specific OT-1 objectives include demonstrating and assessing day and night flight operations in varying aircraft configurations; digital interoperability of aircraft and ship systems; F-35B landing signal officer's launch and recovery software; day and night weapons loading; and all aspects of maintenance, logistics, and sustainment support of the F-35B while deployed at sea. Additionally, the joint and international team is working closely with Naval Sea Systems Command to assess specific modifications made to USS Wasp. This will be particularly beneficial for the U.K.’s future program, which will include integration of the F-35B with their new class of amphibious[QUE?] [CVFs?] ships.

“Our Queen Elizabeth Class carriers are the largest and most powerful warships ever built in the U.K.,” said Mathieson. “They are capable of the widest range of roles, from defense diplomacy and humanitarian assistance to full combat operations, providing flexibility and choice throughout their 50-year life.”..."

Source: http://www.jsf.mil/news/docs/20150526_OT1_USMC_UK.pdf (100Kb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 04:00
by spazsinbad
Interesting thot I didna have about that engyn: [from 'Marine F-35B conducts first operational testing at sea' story above]
"...The successful exercise proved that the engine could be placed on a custom-built cradle that fits in an Osprey without surpassing weight and balance limits that would degrade the tiltrotor’s handling beyond acceptable limits."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 04:24
by quicksilver
gabriele wrote:I don't get why they wouldn't be allowed to use at least the EO-DAS imagery on screen. At least. Is it intentional to put the crew in the worst possible position to build up their confidence or something...?


DAS and NVC on the visor are not approved for recoveries to the ship at night; DAS on PCD is not restricted but that's irrelevant since it is a 'visual' approach.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 09:12
by gabriele
"Engine", if it relates to the pictures we saw, actually means "Power module". It is just (the largest) part of the engine, not a whole engine.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 10:13
by spazsinbad
'Gabriele' said (over page):
""Engine", if it relates to the pictures we saw, actually means "Power module". It is just (the largest) part of the engine, not a whole engine."

And so if the largest, heaviest part of the five modules of the F135 goes in a V-22 OK - then do the others follow OK? Reuters said: "...the Marine Corps will use an MV-22 tilt-rotor aircraft to transport part of the engine of the F-35 fighter jet to the USS Wasp amphibious ship during two weeks of testing that began Monday, Davis said...."

From the marinecorpstimes article on previous page then can we assume that somehow the LiftFan Module made it out there also (does not say how though). But anyway perhaps there is comfort in this quote - as I recall there was previous concern about the ejection seat trolley and servicing; so I will guess this is no longer a problem (fixed somehow). And note 'the engine change' (no other details sadly - probably the newspeople will get on to it - BUTLER to the rescue).
"...But perhaps the most valuable lessons learned are being gleaned by maintainers and logisticians who must figure out how to service and repair a strike fighter that is bigger than an F/A-18 Hornet and more complex than an AV-8B Harrier.

British Lt. Cdr. Beth Kitchen, who is assigned to VMFAT-501, said that has meant everything from repairing a tire to changing an engine. Those are all tasks that have been successfully mastered ashore, but deck motion, space constraints and the need to tie assets down complicate many procedures, she said.

Kitchen and the maintainers she oversees have now installed and uninstalled components including the lift fan that gives the aircraft its STOVL capability, canopies and ejection seats. The idea is not only to ensure maintainers are correctly trained and can execute their tasks, but also to document difficulties so they can be remedied before the aircraft is fully operational and deployed. So far, however, Kitchen said they have not found the need for many changes.

"We are confident we can maintain these aircraft at sea," she said...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 10:42
by spazsinbad
F-35B Operational testing on the USS Wasp
26 May 2015 Andrea Shala-Esa


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 11:19
by mrigdon
Oh my god, if they keep this up the F-35B will be operational :shock:

I went over to FoxTrotAlpha today and they had an article about this. I won't link because it will only encourage them, but they ended the article with this:

We will keep you updated as to how these potentially volatile tests aboard the USS Wasp continue to advance.


Volatile? I hope they never let go of this "F-35B cuts through decks like butter" meme. Decades from now, when the Wasp is finally decommissioned and the blowtorches cut it apart, I will be sorely disappointed if FoxTrotAlpha doesn't run a headline saying 'F-35B finally cuts through the deck of the U.S.S. Wasp, reduces the ship to scrap.'

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 12:58
by spazsinbad
On the 19th the alphafox with the trots said this:
"...Beyond testing the jets themselves, this period at sea will also be used to assess what other modifications will need to be made to the USS Wasp and other helicopter landing ships in order to support the jet during its operational career. This has been a sensitive topic as the F-35’s hot exhaust has proven to be very abrasive to the decks of all existing ships that could accommodate it...."

On the 26th the foxytrottyALF said this:
"...Considering that this is the first time the F-35B will be operating from the deck using its short takeoff and vertical landing capability in an operational manner, the unknown is a major factor as well and things can go very wrong very quickly when you are talking about a still largely experimental 20 ton fighter jet hovering on a pillar of air above a steel deck with people working nearby...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 13:12
by gabriele
spazsinbad wrote:'Gabriele' said (over page):
""Engine", if it relates to the pictures we saw, actually means "Power module". It is just (the largest) part of the engine, not a whole engine."

And so if the largest, heaviest part of the five modules of the F135 goes in a V-22 OK - then do the others follow OK? Reuters said: "...the Marine Corps will use an MV-22 tilt-rotor aircraft to transport part of the engine of the F-35 fighter jet to the USS Wasp amphibious ship during two weeks of testing that began Monday, Davis said...."

From the marinecorpstimes article on previous page then can we assume that somehow the LiftFan Module made it out there also (does not say how though). But anyway perhaps there is comfort in this quote - as I recall there was previous concern about the ejection seat trolley and servicing; so I will guess this is no longer a problem (fixed somehow). And note 'the engine change' (no other details sadly - probably the newspeople will get on to it - BUTLER to the rescue).
"...But perhaps the most valuable lessons learned are being gleaned by maintainers and logisticians who must figure out how to service and repair a strike fighter that is bigger than an F/A-18 Hornet and more complex than an AV-8B Harrier.

British Lt. Cdr. Beth Kitchen, who is assigned to VMFAT-501, said that has meant everything from repairing a tire to changing an engine. Those are all tasks that have been successfully mastered ashore, but deck motion, space constraints and the need to tie assets down complicate many procedures, she said.

Kitchen and the maintainers she oversees have now installed and uninstalled components including the lift fan that gives the aircraft its STOVL capability, canopies and ejection seats. The idea is not only to ensure maintainers are correctly trained and can execute their tasks, but also to document difficulties so they can be remedied before the aircraft is fully operational and deployed. So far, however, Kitchen said they have not found the need for many changes.

"We are confident we can maintain these aircraft at sea," she said...."



If the power module fits, the other modules should fit, also.
I have some doubts on the Lift Fan, though, since i think it has a greater diameter, and the photos seem to show a very tight fit already.

The Osprey's cargo max envelope should be 6.35 m (Length) x 1,72 m (Width) x 1,68 m (Height), or at least so has been written.

Maximum diameter of the F135 is 1,17 m with the Lift Fan at 1,34 m. But once caged, the power module already seemed to take up all the space, with very little extra room.
F135 engine length is given at 5,59 m, so one would think that it should be possible to fit a whole engine inside a V-22, but apparently it is not possible, or at least not at all so easy as one would think.

The engine and Lift Fan changes on board of USS Wasp have nothing too magic about them. They will have simply embarked spare engine and spare Lift Fan before leaving port.

Eventually, they will get around to trialing the Heavy UNREP kit that will allow transfer of engine container from supply ship to LHA/LHD/Carrier. I think Wasp did receive the H-UNREP fit. But it might take time to upgrade the supply ship side of the equation as well, and i don't think it is going to happen in OT-1. There has been no indication of it, at least. Would be all too glad to be surprised.

Air transport of a whole engine, i don't know. The measures given would suggest it is possible, but at the same time they say it is not. At the very least, it depends on designing a cage which fits the space and still meets safety requirements.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 13:31
by spazsinbad
Seems to me there is a bunch of conjecture about F135 engine and how it will be transported in a V-22. We will be told eventually I guess - so that is my guess. Yes engines and LiftFans can be embarked however there is a space limit onboard for spares; and we cannot forget the now old HOOhaa about how the F135 could not be transported to any ship etc by any means because the 'container' was too bulky. It seems everything about the F-35 is a work in progress - and it progresses.

What surprises me is the shitty reporting about these details. However I understand it allows plenty of conjecture and editorialising by some reporters/bloggers/ne'erdowells. AWEsome shot of night ops AV-8Bs USS Essex:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... 8elw1z.jpg

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 15:32
by spazsinbad
At moment a VERY SLOW download of this purported movie (I have not seen it): http://www.jsf.mil/

Nothing much new - with bits repeated within the video itself - YMMV.

18 May 2015 - Six F-35B Lightning II's land aboard USS Wasp [LHD-1] for phase one of Operational Testing [OT-1]

http://www.jsf.mil/video/f35test/DOD_10 ... -2765k.wmv (75Mb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 16:43
by bring_it_on
sferrin wrote:

I'll bet Bill isn't on that plane. :lmao:


Doesn't appear that he visited..;)

Image


ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 26, 2015) U.S. and international reporters interview F-35B Lightning II pilots, maintainers and their Royal Navy counterparts during an F-35B media panel aboard USS Wasp (LHD 1) during an F-35B media day. Wasp, with VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 embarked, is underway conducting the first phase of operational testing for the F-35B Lightning II aircraft, which will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness in an at-sea environment. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist William Tonacchio/Released)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 22:49
by delvo
Trying to find ways to take the engine apart and reinvent its packaging to make it work in a couple of V-22s looks to me like effort wasted to satisfy an example of excessively rigid military thinking: they've designated V-22 as the vehicle for deliveries to ships at sea, so that's what must be used for the engine as well, no matter what. Why not let V-22s deliver the routine stuff they already can easily handle, and then, for that one obscure occasion when they'll actually want to deliver an engine at sea years from now, let that one job that one time be handled by something else that already can do it without any trickery? It's a special occasion, not something that needs to be jammed into the "this is how we always do things" box just because you can't think outside of it. That engine, unmodified and non-dismantled in its unmodified original packaging, fits inside a Chinook or C-27 with no trouble at all and room to spare, and C-27 outranges V-22 and would arrive faster. (I know we don't normally think of cargo planes for visiting ships without catapults or cables, but C-130s have done it, and C-27 is a lighter, even less runway-hungry derivative of that.)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 23:23
by SpudmanWP
OR..

It's more cost effective to only sent the part (ie "package") to the carrier that is actually needed.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2015, 23:44
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:On the 19th the alphafox with the trots said this:
"...Beyond testing the jets themselves, this period at sea will also be used to assess what other modifications will need to be made to the USS Wasp and other helicopter landing ships in order to support the jet during its operational career. This has been a sensitive topic as the F-35’s hot exhaust has proven to be very abrasive to the decks of all existing ships that could accommodate it...."

On the 26th the foxytrottyALF said this:
"...Considering that this is the first time the F-35B will be operating from the deck using its short takeoff and vertical landing capability in an operational manner, the unknown is a major factor as well and things can go very wrong very quickly when you are talking about a still largely experimental 20 ton fighter jet hovering on a pillar of air above a steel deck with people working nearby...."



Somebody needs to inform that idiot that when the Tomcat came on board they had to change out all blast deflectors in the fleet for water-cooled ones. Powerful engines generate heat. Who'd have thought? And the more efficient they are the hotter they are. But somehow the F-35 is inferior because it's engine produces hot air.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 00:21
by zerion
Tests show Lockheed’s F-35B ‘right at home at sea,’ U.S. Marines say
ABOARD THE USS WASP | BY ANDREA SHALAL

Nearly two weeks of testing of Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35B fighter jet on an amphibious assault carrier proved the stealthy new warplane can operate and be serviced at sea, U.S. and UK officials said this week, marking another step toward the jet's readiness for initial combat use by the Marine Corps.

Six F-35 B-model jets, which can take off from shorter runways and land like a helicopter, completed 98 separate flights, logging 73.1 flight hours, on the USS Wasp from May 18 to May 26, said Marine Corps spokesman Major Paul Greenberg.

The jets were due to wrap up a final day of flight tests on Wednesday from the ship, which is operating about 100 miles off the coast of North Carolina, officials said. Maintainers working on the jets will wrap up their work on Friday, they said.

Lieutenant General Jon Davis, the top Marine in charge of aviation, told reporters on the ship that the testing showed “the airplane is right at home at sea." The reporters were ferried to and from the Wasp on Tuesday while it was conducting tests at sea.

Davis said the new jets would expand the U.S. military's ability to respond to crises, since it will allow Marines for the first time to fly stealthy jets off warships.

Davis, who will attend meetings in Norway this week with the major companies and countries involved in the $391 billion weapons program, said the Marines remained on track to declare an initial squadron of 10 jets ready for combat use in July.

He said work was still under way to retrofit those initial jets, and some changes in ship maintenance procedures would be made after the operational testing, but "no showstoppers" had emerged to derail the planned declaration around July 15.

One F-35B jet had to fly back to shore after a landing gear warning signal came on after takeoff, but it was replaced by another jet standing by at a North Carolina Marine Corps base, officials said. They called the incident minor.

Major Mike Rountree, a Marine Corps pilot, said the jet was easier to fly than the AV-8B Harrier, and he was "a lot less terrified" to carry out a night landing in the F-35B.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/ ... TZ20150527

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 00:37
by quicksilver
delvo wrote:Trying to find ways to take the engine apart and reinvent its packaging to make it work in a couple of V-22s looks to me like effort wasted to satisfy an example of excessively rigid military thinking: they've designated V-22 as the vehicle for deliveries to ships at sea, so that's what must be used for the engine as well, no matter what. Why not let V-22s deliver the routine stuff they already can easily handle, and then, for that one obscure occasion when they'll actually want to deliver an engine at sea years from now, let that one job that one time be handled by something else that already can do it without any trickery? It's a special occasion, not something that needs to be jammed into the "this is how we always do things" box just because you can't think outside of it. That engine, unmodified and non-dismantled in its unmodified original packaging, fits inside a Chinook or C-27 with no trouble at all and room to spare, and C-27 outranges V-22 and would arrive faster. (I know we don't normally think of cargo planes for visiting ships without catapults or cables, but C-130s have done it, and C-27 is a lighter, even less runway-hungry derivative of that.)


:wtf:

Guess you've never been aboard an LHA/D, eh?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 00:53
by spazsinbad
Do some people have trouble with HANGAR!? Now we have 'hold' - at least it is not 'BELLY' - for fsake get with the naval terms reporters.
"Wednesday, May 27, 2015 The largest of the five modules that make up the Pratt & Whitney engine that powers the F-35 is pictured in the hold of the USS Wasp during fighter plane testing off the coast of North Carolina May 26, 2105. REUTERS/Andrea Shalal" http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/ ... XMPEB4Q19M

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 01:05
by spazsinbad
Noise Biggest Worry For F-35B On USS Wasp; Marines Fly Through Testing {FINALLY A HANGAR, BABES!}
27 May 2015 Colin Clark

"ABOARD USS WASP: When you start getting bored during an operational test after watching the seventh or eighth F-35B float down the carrier deck and slip up into the air, you know the Marines and Navy are doing something right — or being very lucky.

The six pilots have put their planes into the air close to 100 times since Operational Test 1 (OT-1) began May 18....

... (We heard from one pilot that the F-35Bs had already met and beaten the ship boarding rate of the Harrier fleet.) The Marines also flew the largest engine module out to the Wasp on a V-22 to ensure it would fit on the Osprey and to begin planning how to store the gear.

The 91 maintainers aboard the Wasp jacked up an F-35B and found they needed to come up with some new gear to do it easily and safely to manage the 32,300 pound aircraft.

But there is one aspect of the plane’s operation that raised concerns. “I’m most worried about noise” the aircraft generates, the head of NavSea (Naval Sea Systems Command), Vice Adm. William Hilarides, told me just before we left the Wasp. Earlier, a small group of reporters were interviewing F-35 maintainers in the hangar deck where the massive elevator raises and lower planes to and from the flight deck. An F-35B hovered and then landed, almost overhead. Everyone covered their ears. All conversation stopped. My head was ringing from the noise by the time the plane landed. The USS Wasp has placed microphones all around the flight deck, in the hangar deck and anywhere else that might be affected to monitor noise levels. Of course, noise is something the military is pretty effective at dealing with....

...Perhaps the most interesting tidbit we heard came from a maintainer on the ship, Staff Sgt. William Sullivan. He’s responsible for ensuring the aircraft maintain their stealth signature. Stealth, of course, depends on coatings as well as engineering. Nicks, scratches or unexpected reactions with sea water and all the chemicals aboard ship could degrade the F-35’s stealth. So I asked Sullivan how the marine environment was affecting this: “Up to now the coatings have held up extremely well.”

Perhaps the most surprising thing we heard was that ALIS (the Autonomic Logistics Information System) “is performing extremely well.” Lt. Commander Beth Kitchen of the Royal Navy should know: She’s stationed in Beaufort, S.C. with the Marines training to fly the F-35B and she is responsible for the UK’s efforts to build a maintenance force for their F-35Bs...."

PHOTO: "The biggest engine module of five that make up the F135 engine for the F-35B. It’s stored on the USS Wasp" http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... G_3967.jpg


Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/nois ... h-testing/


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 01:44
by quicksilver
Good video from WSJ reporter aboard WASP.

http://www.wsj.com/video/is-f-35-jet-fi ... 8CC75.html

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 01:47
by spazsinbad
THAT earlier SLOW DOWNload video at JSF.MIL has been reposted here - TAH to the lads:


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 02:08
by quicksilver
C'mon Spaz...

That video is a week old.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 02:15
by mk82
" Beyond basic shipboard launching and landing, test pilots have been conducting elaborate war games, pitting F-35s against each other in dogfights defined by the aircraft's next-generation sensor technology."

Looks like the USMC is already thinking about potential tactics against adversarial 5th generation platforms. The USAF/USN/USMC and potentially allies purchasing the F35 are going to be way ahead of everyone else in 5th generation platform CONOPS, tactics, techniques and procedures for some time.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 02:59
by spazsinbad
I post stuff here that is donkey ages old - go figure.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 03:26
by spazsinbad
F-35’s ALIS at Sea
27 May 2015 USS Wasp

"...“Until this point, all ALIS infrastructure was land-based to support flight test, training and aircraft modifications,” Sprang says. “This event demonstrates the maturing ALIS capability by facilitating communication from ship to shore and connecting directly to ship networks to support F-35 operations.”

A Standard Operating Unit – the set of ALIS servers supporting squadron operations – was installed on the Wasp last year to prepare for this month’s test event. Previously, ship-based F-35 test events did not require the full technology suite onboard and were supported through a virtual connection to a Standard Operating Unit.

In addition to supporting operational testing, the Standard Operating Unit continues to facilitate all the training flights at MCAS Beaufort in South Carolina at the F-35B Pilot Training Center.

“The joint government and industry team is well prepared to support both the test event and continued training operations as the Marine Corps prepares to take the F-35 into initial operations,” says Joe Groszek, deputy program manager for ALIS field operations. “The logistics and maintenance with ALIS are running smoothly, and we’re excited to be underway.”

While gauging mission readiness is a major objective, the test event also provides a true-to-life deployment scenario to capture lessons learned about spares needed at sea, deployment planning and the overall logistics for ship-based F-35 operations. These lessons learned will be incorporated future Marine Corps deployments.

ALIS enables daily operations of the F-35 fleet, including mission planning, scheduling for flights, aircraft maintenance, and tracking and ordering of parts. The next generation of ALIS, ALIS 2.0.0, completed its roll out this past March and is currently supporting F-35 operations at 11 locations.

The next release, ALIS 2.0.1, is now installed at flight test locations for assessment. ALIS 2.0.1 includes a new hardware suite called the Standard Operating Unit version 2. This deployable kit will support the F-35 on carriers, amphibious craft and at forward operating locations."

Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/f-35s-alis-at-sea

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 03:43
by spazsinbad
Marine F-35B conducts first operational testing at sea
27 May 2015 James K. Sanborn

"...But perhaps the most valuable lessons learned are being gleaned by maintainers and logisticians who must figure out how to service and repair a strike fighter that is bigger than an F/A-18 Hornet and more complex than an AV-8B Harrier.

British Lt. Cdr. Beth Kitchen, who is assigned to VMFAT-501, said that has meant everything from repairing a tire to changing an engine. Those are all tasks that have been successfully mastered ashore, but deck motion, space constraints and the need to tie assets down complicate many procedures, she said.

Kitchen and the maintainers she oversees have now installed and uninstalled components including the lift fan that gives the aircraft its STOVL capability, canopies and ejection seats. The idea is not only to ensure maintainers are correctly trained and can execute their tasks, but also to document difficulties so they can be remedied before the aircraft is fully operational and deployed. So far, however, Kitchen said they have not found the need for many changes.

"We are confident we can maintain these aircraft at sea," she said.

The successful exercise proved that the engine could be placed on a custom-built cradle that fits in an Osprey without surpassing weight and balance limits that would degrade the tiltrotor's handling beyond acceptable limits."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/milita ... /27983193/

PHOTO: "A custom-built cradle for an MV-22B Osprey to internally transport an F-35B joint strike fighter engine sits aboard the amphibious assault ship Wasp. The F-35B engine can be seen to the left. (Photo: James K. Sanborn/Staff)" http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/cd9aab5 ... C-6879.JPG

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 04:48
by spazsinbad
POWER to the Peeples - POWER to the PEEPles right on.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmFYVkyWEcE
An Update on the USS WASP-F35B Ship Integration Tests
27 May 2015 SLDinfo

"...Statistics: The F-35B has flown more than 11,800 mishap-free hours as of May 26, 2015.

OT-1 F-35B sorties as of the end of the day on May 26, 2015: 98 OT-1 F-35B flight hours as of the end of the day on May 26, 2015: 73.1 Daily sorties May 26: 17 Daily hours May 26: 11.1

Power Module: The power module arrived aboard the USS WASP via Osprey on May 21, 2015. The power module was loaded into an MV-22B Osprey at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland and flown to USS Wasp on May 21.

The power module is the core of the F-35B’s engine.

A joint effort has been coordinated between the Marine Corps, the F-35 Joint Program Office, Pratt & Whitney and Naval Air Systems Command Special Operations and Cargo Team to make this happen.

The goal was to design, build and test a shipping “buck” to hold and protect the 4,500 pound power module while being transported in a MV-22B.”"

Photo: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 00x198.jpg

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/an-update-on-the ... ion-tests/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 06:30
by bring_it_on
Is it me or has Aviation Week totally ignored OT-1?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 07:24
by lookieloo
bring_it_on wrote:Is it me or has Aviation Week totally ignored OT-1?
They're collecting nitpicks and perhaps waiting to see if something more tangibly goes wrong. Either that or none of their staff got an invitation.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 12:38
by quicksilver
bring_it_on wrote:Is it me or has Aviation Week totally ignored OT-1?


A substantial offering from Amy Butler at the link -- dateline this a.m. Couple videos too.

http://aviationweek.com/blog/videos-f-3 ... dium=email

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 13:29
by sferrin
bring_it_on wrote:Is it me or has Aviation Week totally ignored OT-1?


Bill is doing his best. :lmao:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 13:31
by sferrin
Holy crap did I call this one or what?

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/

Top of the page implying the F-35 is burning up the deck. :lmao: :doh:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 15:59
by spazsinbad
:devil: The SCOWL from Gen. DAVIS is prolly becuz of the BUTLER 'BELLY' hangar reporting PRIOR to the tests: :mrgreen:
"...A Marine look of pride can easily be confused with a scowl... make no mistake in this case...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 16:22
by optimist
sferrin wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:Is it me or has Aviation Week totally ignored OT-1?


Bill is doing his best. :lmao:


It must be going well, if the dribble of a bitter old man can only come up with this on pprune
The STOVL flight control is impressive. And after a lot of time and money - STOVL has added double-digit gigabucks to R&D, starting with the two engines - the system has become reliable enough to perform repeated operations with journos watching. Also, congrats are due if they actually did practice an afloat engine and lift-fan change.

However...

+ $50 million per airplane
+ >4,000 lb deadweight
- 5,000 lb internal gas

Not to mention that the CTOL airplane has its wingspan dictated by parking on the Wasps, and its overall length constrained by the elevators on the Invincibles.

Now all we need from the Marines is a CONOPS that makes an iota of sense and we're off to the races.

PS - Note the bloke making a very careful walk-around visual check of the landing spot at 4:15-4:45.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 16:47
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: Hey 'optimist' Welcome (that is what BillyBoy said to 'mauswhatever' over on pPRUNe). One wonders about BS indeed - but only for a microsecond or so. :mrgreen:

Good deck crew check everything all the time - no matter how closely - otherwise what else do they do? Check Check and Check again we hope. And besides this is how things go on a flat deck at sea. Check CVN checkers of arrestor gear for example. BTW the LHA scorch checker is in the first video on that page.

I'm wondering if the SCORCH is partly composed of some carbon from UNBURNT JET FUEL. However I do acknowledge the cleanliness of exhausts compared to the olden tymes ones (see vid - guess :doh: which one has the engine mod to decrease smoke - or engine failure). :devil:


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 17:21
by spazsinbad
Gast your FLAB (Flabbergasted) on this one:


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 17:55
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote::.. One wonders about BS indeed - but only for a microsecond or so...


..the BS sidekick has some good? interim videos from her visit out to the Wasp...
:)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 18:51
by sferrin
optimist wrote:PS - Note the bloke making a very careful walk-around visual check of the landing spot at 4:15-4:45.


What video is he talking about that is 4+ minutes long? :-?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 19:52
by optimist

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 19:58
by lookieloo
optimist wrote:It must be going well, if the dribble of a bitter old man can only come up with this on pprune
The STOVL flight control is impressive. And after a lot of time and money - STOVL has added double-digit gigabucks to R&D, starting with the two engines - the system has become reliable enough to perform repeated operations with journos watching. Also, congrats are due if they actually did practice an afloat engine and lift-fan change.

However...

+ $50 million per airplane
+ >4,000 lb deadweight
- 5,000 lb internal gas

Not to mention that the CTOL airplane has its wingspan dictated by parking on the Wasps, and its overall length constrained by the elevators on the Invincibles.

Now all we need from the Marines is a CONOPS that makes an iota of sense and we're off to the races.

PS - Note the bloke making a very careful walk-around visual check of the landing spot at 4:15-4:45.
I also noticed "the bloke making a very careful walk-around visual check of the landing spot." It struck me as just a common-sense thing to do with a new plane and deck-coating. Billy should also note that it's just a joe making a visual assessment, not some Lockheed boffin with suitcase full of equipment.

The other day he was gushing over the nonchalant testing of a new Swedish radar system and said something along the lines of "sometimes, it's not what you do but how you do it." Regular Marines doing regular stuff is boring, and that's a good thing. I guess we'll all have to wait until the USS America receives its modifications for things to get interesting again. See ya then Bill.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 20:06
by hurricaneditka
spazsinbad wrote:'sferrin' DVIDS is a problematic website to find images - go there often enough and it probably gets easier but they can have a zillion photos of one event meaning sorting/going backwards by date can be tiresome. I guess there are many ways to skin the cat there but meanwhile having the URL for the photos really helps those willing to register to get the best resolution pics / videos available and of course YMMV & site can be SLOW. So here is the URL for the engine photos:

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1949783/ ... V9uTukw8kI
HI REZ: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1949783 (JPG 2.7Mb) 2100x1500 puxels

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1949777/ ... V9v-ukw8kI
HI REZ: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1949777 (JPG 2.5Mb) 2100x1500 puxybits

Zipped Gallery JPG examples may be downloaded also: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/gallery/setid/533606
ZIP file 8.8 Mbs All the four available images in HIREZ (sometimes they are NOT hirez). It is an odd website indeedy.

Five Parted Engine F135 modules from: http://www.dodig.mil/pubs/documents/DODIG-2015-111.pdf (2.2Mb)

http://www.navyrecognition.com/images/s ... very_3.jpg
&
http://www.amdo.org/JSF_Program_and_33_FW_Updates.pdf (3.5Mb)


Sorry if this is too far off-topic, but this is one of the most detailed posts I've seen on the F-35's engine components. Are any / most of these components interchangeable between the A, B, and C variants? In other words, could the power module be pulled out of an F-35A's engine and be put into an F-35B's engine, or are there differences there?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 22:20
by neptune
hurricaneditka wrote:...

Sorry if this is too far off-topic, but this is one of the most detailed posts I've seen on the F-35's engine components. Are any / most of these components interchangeable between the A, B, and C variants? In other words, could the power module be pulled out of an F-35A's engine and be put into an F-35B's engine, or are there differences there?


Variants[edit]
F135-PW-100 : Used in the F-35A Conventional Take-Off and Landing variant
F135-PW-400 : Used in the F-35C carrier variant
F135-PW-600 : Used in the F-35B Short Take-Off Vertical Landing variant

...usually the B & C are "marinized" (for suckin' seawater) vs. the A (non-suckin')....to you and me they would probably look the same....Oh!, the B also has that fan "thingee" attached up front... :)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 22:54
by newmanfrigan
"Now all we need from the Marines is a CONOPS that makes an iota of sense and we're off to the races."

---Bill Sweetman
Saab Public Relations
Linkoping, Sweden



This part is the one that is most outrageous and offensive to me. Why on earth does Bill Sweetman think he knows what a good conop or a bad conop is?

Networked, Distributed STOVL ops in the Pacific seem absolutely ideal for a 21st Century Marine Corps CONOPs, but that might be up for some debate. ...some debate between people who actually know what they're talking about, not folks who write children's books on fighter planes. I want to know where Bill gets off, because I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who doesn't give two tosses what a blowhard who has never served and/or is not academically qualified, has to say.

He's good at writing about historical aviation. Retrospectively, he's fine. All the tech details are public domain, history has been recorded, and he assembles those already-known quantities and qualities for his readers. That's lovely, but when it comes to the future, the present and even the last few decades, there is a glaring absence of comprehension in Bill's public writings. The best example I can immediately think of is the article he wrote on the SU-35, saying that the Russians were banking on surviving barrages of AMRAAMs with their supermaneuverability, while simultaneously maintaining their energy state during these wild maneuvers. This would then allow them to somehow merge and kill F-35s that they would have no idea how to find in the first place. That piece was so out-of-touch with modern technology and CONOPs, that it should have been enough to flush anyone's credibility down the toilet permanently. It's fan-fiction, foxtrot-alpha level BS.

When he wrote about new Russian and Chinese radars rendering "stealth" ineffective he demonstrated publically that he doesn't really understand how sensors work in the EM spectrum, what those sensors can see and can't,what processing power and Moore's Law mean vis-à-vis processing sensor data, etc. Come on man! ....like Skunkworks, N.G., L-3, Raytheon, etc don't understand or didn't think about passive, or bistatic sensors? I mean, come on! Fighting within and managing the EM spectrum is EXACTLY what the F-35 is designed to do and there isn't another platform on earth that will be able to exploit it as well.

:bang: ....it just frustrates me. It seems like he should know better, but is just playing dumb to spread FUD.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 23:05
by bring_it_on
:bang: ....it just frustrates me. It seems like he should know better, but is just playing dumb to spread FUD.


It sells..Plus he is an international editor. Throughout his career he has taken pot shots at the US services and even US made systems. He just kicks it up a notch when it comes to his forum posts. Also, have you heard any AvWeek podcast where he doesn't bring up SAAB? He could have been talking about ice-cream and he'll manage to bring up the Gripen.

Years back he had an article basically taking an opposition to the USMC's existence (he used something like - "The US Navy's, army has its own air-force")..I have it saved somewhere, i'll try to dig it up.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 23:13
by cantaz
bring_it_on wrote:He could have been talking about ice-cream and he'll manage to bring up the Gripen.


Did you know that the Gripen is the only 6th gen fighter to include its own icecream dispensing capability?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 23:21
by newmanfrigan
bring_it_on wrote:
:bang: ....it just frustrates me. It seems like he should know better, but is just playing dumb to spread FUD.


It sells..Plus he is an international editor. Throughout his career he has taken pot shots at the US services and even US made systems. He just kicks it up a notch when it comes to his forum posts. Also, have you heard any AvWeek podcast where he doesn't bring up SAAB? He could have been talking about ice-cream and he'll manage to bring up the Gripen.

Years back he had an article basically taking an opposition to the USMC's existence (he used something like - "The US Navy's, army has its own air-force")..I have it saved somewhere, i'll try to dig it up.


Dig it up so others can see it, but I am familiar with that piece as well. He doesn't believe Naval Infantry should exist, because WWII was a long time ago? That was the thrust of his logic I think, in a nutshell ...but the Pacific is still there and soldiers are still required to capture and hold territory. It seems self-evident to me that the USMC should exist. FFS!

He writes about Saabs GaN technology as if it's as groundbreaking as the Apollo Moon landing.

CONSPIRACY THEORY TIME: ....wonder if somebody at LM was feeding him dribs and drabs of disinfo during the Cold War, regarding the Aurora. I'm Aurora agnostic, because I've seen some, shall we say, unusual aerospace vehicles while stargazing in the desert. Nothing hypersonic, but very unusual all the same. If Bill got burned by somebody using him for disinfo, then he might have a motive for his venom. It could also be something more petty, like a personal issue. Who knows? All I can tell is that BS is full of himself, namely, full of BS.

Maybe a Marine stole his girlfriend or ran over his dog?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 23:21
by Dragon029
hurricaneditka wrote:Sorry if this is too far off-topic, but this is one of the most detailed posts I've seen on the F-35's engine components. Are any / most of these components interchangeable between the A, B, and C variants? In other words, could the power module be pulled out of an F-35A's engine and be put into an F-35B's engine, or are there differences there?


I don't know the answer to this, but it's worth noting that F-35Cs have flown with (F-35A) F135-PW-100 engines previously (and not too long ago), which suggests a fair bit of commonality.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 23:38
by spazsinbad
It is strange about the F135 engines. LM say that the A & C are the same with same reference number on their 'fast fact sheets' for a very long time now. There have been a few debates on this forum about what ANY differences might be for the A & C variant engines and even though some wisdom says that some parts of the 'same as the A' C engine have been buttressed against sea water corrosion, it makes sense to me to just make the A/C engines the same, after all we see photos of the washdowns at Eglin AFB of the A version after landing. Having the same engines in the A/C variants must save money during manufacture? About whether the five modules are interchangeable I would guess that they are but that is all it is - a guess. And as pointed out the B variant needs the LiftFan components.

F-35 Lightning II Program Status and Fast Facts April 23, 2015
https://www.f35.com/assets/uploads/down ... 2q2015.pdf (75Kb)

(also attached in this forum) download/file.php?id=20547

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2015, 23:56
by spazsinbad
bring_it_on wrote:
:bang: ....it just frustrates me. It seems like he should know better, but is just playing dumb to spread FUD.


It sells..Plus he is an international editor. Throughout his career he has taken pot shots at the US services and even US made systems. He just kicks it up a notch when it comes to his forum posts. Also, have you heard any AvWeek podcast where he doesn't bring up SAAB? He could have been talking about ice-cream and he'll manage to bring up the Gripen.

Years back he had an article basically taking an opposition to the USMC's existence (he used something like - "The US Navy's, army has its own air-force")..I have it saved somewhere, i'll try to dig it up.

Yes BS is an odd one indeed - I recall that quote (or similar). BS is a reverse Rumpelstiltskin - spinning straw from gold - about the USMC in particular and the F-35B specifically:
"...In order to make himself appear more superior, a miller lies to the king, telling him that his daughter can spin straw into gold..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpelstiltskin


viewtopic.php?f=58&t=25647&p=277744&hilit=army+land+bill#p277744

AND: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24483&p=267726&hilit=army+land+bill#p267726
BS says:
"...[A-10s] would give the Navy's army's air force a mission."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:01
by sferrin
bring_it_on wrote:
:bang: ....it just frustrates me. It seems like he should know better, but is just playing dumb to spread FUD.


It sells..Plus he is an international editor. Throughout his career he has taken pot shots at the US services and even US made systems. He just kicks it up a notch when it comes to his forum posts. Also, have you heard any AvWeek podcast where he doesn't bring up SAAB? He could have been talking about ice-cream and he'll manage to bring up the Gripen.

Years back he had an article basically taking an opposition to the USMC's existence (he used something like - "The US Navy's, army has its own air-force")..I have it saved somewhere, i'll try to dig it up.



He's stated on several occasions that he fears the success of the F-35 will mean the end of European fighter development. We all know he can drink tea with the best of them, so you can draw your own conclusions as to his impartiality and objectivity.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:03
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:It is strange about the F135 engines. LM say that the A & C are the same with same reference number on their 'fast fact sheets' for a very long time now. There have been a few debates on this forum about what ANY differences might be for the A & C variant engines and even though some wisdom says that some parts of the 'same as the A' C engine have been buttressed against sea water corrosion, it makes sense to me to just make the A/C engines the same, after all we see photos of the washdowns at Eglin AFB of the A version after landing. Having the same engines in the A/C variants must save money during manufacture? About whether the five modules are interchangeable I would guess that they are but that is all it is - a guess. And as pointed out the B variant needs the LiftFan components.

F-35 Lightning II Program Status and Fast Facts April 23, 2015
https://www.f35.com/assets/uploads/down ... 2q2015.pdf (75Kb)

(also attached in this forum) download/file.php?id=20547



I'm curious about the accuracy of those thrust ratings as it's generally given as 43k, has been given as 48k more than once, and P&W themselves are on record as saying it's run at over 50k. :?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:06
by spazsinbad
I'm not suggesting anything other than there is a lot of obsfucation about the F135 which I can conclude is deliberate. The LM Fast Facts do say that the thrust ratings are for uninstalled engines - that would be the case for test engines also.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:27
by spazsinbad
‘In Hands Of The Professionals:’ F-35Bs On The USS Wasp [PLENTY MORE AT THE URL]
28 May 2015 Robbin Laird

"...The professionals he had in mind are maintainers from three squadrons, the Green Knights (Yuma), the Warlords (Beaufort) and VMX-22 (New River). The ship’s executive officer (XO), Capt. Andrew “Mongo” Smith, highlighted the ability of a 25-year-old ship to become part of fifth generation warfare and operate the F-35 showed the flexibility of both the ship and the Navy-Marine Corps team.

One of the Marine pilots involved with the ship integration-testing said:

“No one in the world has ever sent an airplane off of an amphibious ship with this level of situational awareness and fusion between aircraft to aircraft and aircraft to ship. The fusion of the data aboard the airplanes and your ability to see what other planes are seeing a number of miles away from you, as well as what the ship is seeing, and then to be able to communicate with them without using the radio is a tactical and strategic advantage that can not really be over stated.”...

...The CO of VMX-22, Col. “Horse” Rauenhorst highlighted that their work as a squadron was focusing on the integration of the Osprey, the F-35 and the new CH-53K helicopter as key elements to create a more lethal and survivable MAGTF. The infantry Marine forces can be inserted at greater distance, with greater flexibility to enhance their effectiveness and survivability. That is the whole point of the innovation being tested aboard the USS Wasp.

One aspect of the effort for ship integration of the F-35B aboard the ship was maintenance at sea. Maintainers from the three squadrons – the Green Knights from Yuma, the Warlords from Beaufort, and those from VMX-22 – worked together for the first time aboard the ship. And according to the maintainers their approach worked very well.

The report from the team aboard the ship was straightforward: “we could maintain the plane on ship very well and saw no loss of capability compared to maintaining the plane ashore.”..."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/its- ... -uss-wasp/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:32
by bring_it_on
Robbin Laird also does a very good job here (posted earlier)


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 00:41
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:
‘In Hands Of The Professionals:’ F-35Bs On The USS Wasp [PLENTY MORE AT THE URL]
28 May 2015 Robbin Laird

"...The professionals he had in mind are maintainers from three squadrons, the Green Knights (Yuma), the Warlords (Beaufort) and VMX-22 (New River). The ship’s executive officer (XO), Capt. Andrew “Mongo” Smith, highlighted the ability of a 25-year-old ship to become part of fifth generation warfare and operate the F-35 showed the flexibility of both the ship and the Navy-Marine Corps team.

One of the Marine pilots involved with the ship integration-testing said:

“No one in the world has ever sent an airplane off of an amphibious ship with this level of situational awareness and fusion between aircraft to aircraft and aircraft to ship. The fusion of the data aboard the airplanes and your ability to see what other planes are seeing a number of miles away from you, as well as what the ship is seeing, and then to be able to communicate with them without using the radio is a tactical and strategic advantage that can not really be over stated.”...

...The CO of VMX-22, Col. “Horse” Rauenhorst highlighted that their work as a squadron was focusing on the integration of the Osprey, the F-35 and the new CH-53K helicopter as key elements to create a more lethal and survivable MAGTF. The infantry Marine forces can be inserted at greater distance, with greater flexibility to enhance their effectiveness and survivability. That is the whole point of the innovation being tested aboard the USS Wasp.

One aspect of the effort for ship integration of the F-35B aboard the ship was maintenance at sea. Maintainers from the three squadrons – the Green Knights from Yuma, the Warlords from Beaufort, and those from VMX-22 – worked together for the first time aboard the ship. And according to the maintainers their approach worked very well.

The report from the team aboard the ship was straightforward: “we could maintain the plane on ship very well and saw no loss of capability compared to maintaining the plane ashore.”..."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/its- ... -uss-wasp/


A terrific article.

However, I have now come to enjoy these kinds of articles as much for the entertainment value provided in the comments section. Nearly any article written about F-35...this one included...is just just chocked full of comic nuggets in the comments section. :lmao:

Rage on friends, rage on...

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 01:23
by spazsinbad
Oh this'll rate with the belly below quote "...the U.S. Marine Corps, is giddy about the B version’s progress...". The good generale scowling earlier must have been giddyseasick instead? Poor bugga - what he has to upwithput.
Marines Upbeat About F-35B Wasp Trials
29 May 2015 Amy Butler | Aviation Week & Space Technology

"The first F-35 customer slated for actual operations, the U.S. Marine Corps, is giddy about the B version’s progress after a first-ever series of trials this month leading up to the operational debut of the jet—in development for 14 years—in July. But, in accordance with the tattered history of the F-35 program, any step forward is tempered by questions about the path ahead. Just as the Marines are wrapping up the first operational test (OT-1) session on the USS Wasp ..."

NO MORE ALAS - I do not subscribe to this giddiness. :doh:

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/marines ... asp-trials

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 02:21
by XanderCrews
bring_it_on wrote:
:bang: ....it just frustrates me. It seems like he should know better, but is just playing dumb to spread FUD.


It sells..Plus he is an international editor. Throughout his career he has taken pot shots at the US services and even US made systems. He just kicks it up a notch when it comes to his forum posts. Also, have you heard any AvWeek podcast where he doesn't bring up SAAB? He could have been talking about ice-cream and he'll manage to bring up the Gripen.

Years back he had an article basically taking an opposition to the USMC's existence (he used something like - "The US Navy's, army has its own air-force")..I have it saved somewhere, i'll try to dig it up.


He has to turn it up a notch on the forums under a hidden name because the last time he posted quips like that he go suspended.

That comment is probably as about as complementary as he will ever be about the usmc and jsf. He will always have his cheeky little quips. The glass will always be half full for the jsf. he has been bitter a long time but honestly he is starting to look like one of those nutters who denies the moon landing.

In the meantime bs is promoting an aircraft that is hoping to do what the Rhino already did decades ago (but is half the size at the same cost) with f-16 weight but much less thrust and not a single European export order or even a first flight yet. In the mean time the radar spins (neato!), and it won't be fully operationAL until the mid 2020s assuming everything stays on schedule and has lost in every competition that matters save for military powerhouse Brazil. But the radar spins

Bill deserves full credit for finding the truth and beING able to really find out the reAL deAL when it comes to the military. That's how he avoided Impaling himself on the aurora of course. Didn't fall into that trap.

So don't let him get to you. Laugh at him, he has earned it --And he keeps trying to top himself with each stupid comment.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:17
by bring_it_on
Amy Butler writes in her article -

These were among the issues discussed last week at the global F-35 CEO conference in Norway, which included participation from senior officials from each country in the partnership.


isn't the conference this weekend?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:23
by quicksilver
bring_it_on wrote:Amy Butler writes in her article -

These were among the issues discussed last week at the global F-35 CEO conference in Norway, which included participation from senior officials from each country in the partnership.


isn't the conference this weekend?


Right now. Me thinks the article gets released in hard copy next week.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:26
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:Oh this'll rate with the belly below quote "...the U.S. Marine Corps, is giddy about the B version’s progress...". The good generale scowling earlier must have been giddyseasick instead? Poor bugga - what he has to upwithput.
Marines Upbeat About F-35B Wasp Trials
29 May 2015 Amy Butler | Aviation Week & Space Technology

"The first F-35 customer slated for actual operations, the U.S. Marine Corps, is giddy about the B version’s progress after a first-ever series of trials this month leading up to the operational debut of the jet—in development for 14 years—in July. But, in accordance with the tattered history of the F-35 program, any step forward is tempered by questions about the path ahead. Just as the Marines are wrapping up the first operational test (OT-1) session on the USS Wasp ..."

NO MORE ALAS - I do not subscribe to this giddiness. :doh:

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/marines ... asp-trials


Seems that even the ship drivers dont understand that Thermion is less effective than traditional non-skid when it comes to heat mitigation. Its primarly benefit is its long-term durability as non-skid.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:27
by bring_it_on
Right now. Me thinks the article gets released in hard copy next week.


Ahh Thanks. Here it is for anyone is interested.

Marines Upbeat About F-35B Wasp Trials


The first F-35 customer slated for actual operations, the U.S. Marine Corps, is giddy about the B version’s progress after a first-ever series of trials this month leading up to the operational debut of the jet—in development for 14 years—in July.

But, in accordance with the tattered history of the F-35 program, any step forward is tempered by questions about the path ahead. Just as the Marines are wrapping up the first operational test (OT-1) session on the USS Wasp amphibious ship, partners are jockeying to craft a plan for what weapons and capabilities will be included in the Block 4 version of the F-35, the most widely sought version for international customers. And, also in accordance with the F-35’s legacy, it could all come down to cost.

“Quite frankly, we are working through some of the challenges of understanding the cost associated with some of the capabilities we would like to get into the airplane,” says Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Harrigian, director of the U.S. Air Force’s F-35 Integration Office. “Ultimately, the goal will be to modernize some of our baseline systems to stay ahead of the threat. But what I foresee right now is that . . . over the course of the next couple of months [we will] really refine what we want Block 4 to look like.” This is a complex negotiation inside the Pentagon made even more complicated because the final product will include inputs from each of the eight other developmental partners.These were among the issues discussed last week at the global F-35 CEO conference in Norway, which included participation from senior officials from each country in the partnership.

Meanwhile, the Marines and F-35 program officials are reviewing results from the OT-1 event May 18-29. Six F-35Bs—four Block 2B and two Block 3i—from VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 were used for the trials, which were designed to assess needs for procedures for the F-35B operating on the small-deck amphibious ship leading up to the initial operational capability (IOC) declaration slated for July.

The six jets embarked without trouble, the Marines say. The pilots were uniformed Marines, some newly trained to operate the F-35. Most of them conducted their first ship landing when embarking for the trials.

The Marines put on a dazzling display after a select group of media embarked May 26 on the Wasp to witness the day’s work. Multiple F-35Bs conducted short takeoffs, executed the pattern (one partial loop around to the back of the ship) and lined up for a vertical landing. The media saw this in earlier developmental test events. The difference this time was that multiple jets were doing this in succession, a demonstration of a cadence never before seen for the F-35B on the small-deck ship. It was notable that the crew was able to consistently command taxi, takeoff, flyaround, landing and maneuvers on the deck. Also included in this series was landing and takeoff of the Seahawk search-and-rescue support helicopter and a hot refuel of an F-35B. This hardly mirrors the diversity and demands of an entire air wing on deck, but it was a substantial step forward for the young fighter’s ability to operate at sea.

Two previous trials—Developmental Test-1 and DT-2—on the Wasp were run by developmental overseers. For the first time, USMC operators were overseeing ops in OT-1; this includes pilots as well as maintainers and deck handlers.

The Corps is assessing how many F-35s will comprise future Marine Expeditionary Units (MEU). In question is what will be the aviation mix for the future, including the V-22, new CH-53Ks, unmanned aircraft and the AH-1Z. For now, six were used as a representative sample for OT-1, says Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, Marine Corps deputy commandant for aviation, who attended the trials with the media during tests off North Carolina. As the first customer to declare F-35 IOC, the Marines have repeatedly said this event is a start, not an end state. Additional DTs will follow as more capability is introduced into service, officials say. The first squadron to declare IOC will be VMFA-121 with 10-16 F-35Bs and enough trained pilots and support to deploy for war if needed. The first scheduled deployment is in 2017; Marines will operate the F-35B from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan.

While not intended to simulate actual air wing operations, the trials were intended to run through specific test cases. As an example, maintainers conducted a full engine removal and replacement and also attempted to demonstrate a lift-fan removal. Both were prioritized to ensure that it was shown the work can be done in the confined space of the hangar in the belly of the ship, says Lt. Cdr. Beth Kitchen of the Royal Navy, who was overseeing maintenance issues during the trials. The U.K. and possibly Italy are foreign partners buying the F-35B, which is designed for short takeoff and vertical landing.

In the case of the lift-fan removal, operators discovered that an extra shackle would be needed for the onboard task; this was one of many lessons from the trials, Kitchen says. Each, however, is manageable and there are “not going to be requirements maintenance procedures changes to the joint technical document” as a result of findings thus far in the trials, she says. They are “easily rectified.”

During the trials, 91 maintainers were aboard the Wasp contributing to the F-35 mission, the number now used for Harrier deployments.

During OT-1, an MV-22—the Marine Corps tiltrotor key to resupplying MEUs afloat—demonstrated for the first time the ability to transport the largest of five F135 engine modules from shore to ship. The size of the engine and its lift fan have been a concern, as an entire unit cannot fit in any Marine aircraft suitable for resupply. However, the 4,500-lb. power supply module was transported May 21 from NAS Patuxent River, Maryland. The trip validated the design of a special “buck,” a piece of equipment designed to safely transport engine components from shore to ship. The concept of operations will call for MV-22s to transport the engine by modules when replacements are needed; rarely will an entire engine replacement be required. The Pratt & Whitney F135 design allows for swapping out specific modules in the event of a repair.

Officials did not provide a mission-capable rate for the jets during OT. However, Maj. Michael Rountree, F-35 pilot and senior landing signal officer for OT-1, says the rates are comparable to those seen during operations on shore. Turnaround time is challenged by the limits of the ship, not the aircraft, he adds. Thus, the OT findings will be used to refine procedures for operations on the ship.

The Wasp used the same Thermion nonskid deck coating—designed to protect from the extreme heat from the F135 during vertical landing and short takeoff—as used during the DT trials. Officials will assess coating performance during OT events to ensure ships slated to carry the F-35B are properly outfitted. In addition to Thermion, which is made in America, a U.K. company makes a similar product, says Lt. Cdr. Neil Mathieson, the Royal Navy’s F-35B ship air integration lead during the trials. Though scorching was visible on the deck where the landings took place and early in the vertical takeoff where exhaust was most concentrated at the slowest speeds, officials say there was no indication of a problem.

As of May 26, no tires required changing as a result of a failure on the ship. Officials say they would likely perform a tire change even if one is not required to demonstrate procedures in the confines of the ship’s footprint. Poor tire performance on the ship earlier plagued the program, so the OT performance was welcomed by overseers.

Pilots performed 98 sorties and 73.1 total flight hours when operations closed for the day May 26, according to Marine Corps spokesman Maj. Paul Greenberg, for an average of 17 sorties and 11.1 hr. of total flight time each day.

Davis says he plans to conduct a final operational readiness inspection in July prior to the operational debut; this indicates the actual IOC declaration could come weeks after the July 1 target date.




Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:35
by spazsinbad
Good point about Ship Thermion 'QS' - I was going to comment over on BreakDaFence but then again life is too short (if THERMION is four times more expensive and will not be used on entire LHD deck then IF the 'lastingness' of said THERMION is more than four times the ordinary non-skid is that a winwin). I think sometimes the mil peoples say things awkwardly in an effort to be best understood by these civilian reporters - but I was not there so don't quote me. :mrgreen:

AND... 'brungItBack' youse are a gem - tanksAmil. :mrgreen:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:43
by quicksilver
Amy also wrong about tire performance. "On the ship" was not the issue since all ship landings are VLs. The issue was ashore where they were restricted to higher speed rolling landings (i.e. higher touch down spped and thus higher wear per landing).

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 03:43
by spazsinbad
'ELP' is loonytunes as per usual so this quote from above AvWeak is for his'n edjuckation. Youse will know wot I mean if recent (H)ELP blogpost found. AND I will attest the BUTLER is at least neutral (no fangril nor BS acolyte) regarding the F-35s.
"...Additional DTs will follow as more capability is introduced into service, officials say. The first squadron to declare IOC will be VMFA-121 with 10-16 F-35Bs and enough trained pilots and support to deploy for war if needed. The first scheduled deployment is in 2017; Marines will operate the F-35B from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan.

While not intended to simulate actual air wing operations, the trials were intended to run through specific test cases. As an example, maintainers conducted a full engine removal and replacement and also attempted to demonstrate a lift-fan removal. Both were prioritized to ensure that it was shown the work can be done in the confined space of the hangar in the belly of the ship, says Lt. Cdr. Beth Kitchen of the Royal Navy, who was overseeing maintenance issues during the trials. The U.K. and possibly Italy are foreign partners buying the F-35B, which is designed for short takeoff and vertical landing.

In the case of the lift-fan removal, operators discovered that an extra shackle would be needed for the onboard task; this was one of many lessons from the trials, Kitchen says. Each, however, is manageable and there are “not going to be requirements maintenance procedures changes to the joint technical document” as a result of findings thus far in the trials, she says. They are “easily rectified.”

During the trials, 91 maintainers were aboard the Wasp contributing to the F-35 mission, the number now used for Harrier deployments....

...Officials did not provide a mission-capable rate for the jets during OT. However, Maj. Michael Rountree, F-35 pilot and senior landing signal officer for OT-1, says the rates are comparable to those seen during operations on shore. Turnaround time is challenged by the limits of the ship, not the aircraft, he adds. Thus, the OT findings will be used to refine procedures for operations on the ship...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 16:15
by bring_it_on
Image

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 22:25
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: The KRAKEN AWAKES - bloody hell that is a shock in early morning. :devil: Good to see 'em preserving their night vision with red lights. That had me wondering earlier with the white lights visible in the F-35C night catapult scenario however I'll guess only those responsible for actions there - look there - whilst others turn away for their night vision on deck? Maybe not - I guess also CVNs have BIG DECKs eh. Some more at DVIDS here:

https://www.dvidshub.net/search/?q=WASP&sort=date
& 1.5Mb PHOTO above download: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1964030

FIVE Night Photos Zipped 7Mb: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/gallery/setid/535375
Marines conduct night ordnance load on F-35B at sea
29 May 2015 Cpl. Anne Henry, II Marine Expeditionary Force

"USS WASP, Atlantic Ocean - Marines with various units worked together to accomplish an ordnance load and unload on the F-35B Lightning II as the first operational test of the aircraft winds down aboard USS Wasp May 27, 2015.

For the past two weeks, Marines and sailors have been working together to assess the integration of the F-35B into amphibious operations.

The ordnance exercise gave the Marines the opportunity to verify data and put their skills to the ultimate test by performing an ordnance load and unload of the F-35B in night conditions aboard an amphibious vessel in standard sea conditions. This was the first time for both the Marines and aircraft.

“The purpose of the mission last night was to load the Guided Bomb Unit 12, Guided Bomb Unit 32, and AIM-120 [Advanced Medium Range AIR-to-AIR Missile],” said Gunnery Sgt. Casey Gort, the ordnance chief with Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22. “It was ultimately an opportunity to check the suitability of us actually loading that aircraft at night.”

Over the course of four hours, as USS Wasp pitched and rolled in the darkness, the Marines loaded and unloaded all three types of ordnance into and out of the aircraft, testing both their knowledge and teamwork.

“When you do something at night, there are going to be more inherent dangers,” said Gort. “There are more variables that you have to watch out for simply because it’s dark and you are losing a sense. We wanted to see if we ran into any other problems and safety concerns at night that we didn’t during the day time.”

With so many moving parts in the low-light environment, communication was the key to success, according to Gort.

“Since your sight is limited, you have to be very verbal,” said Gort. “Typically when we do this, we have daylight and use hand and arm signals. At night, you can’t do that. It wasn’t necessarily all that much harder; it was just different.”

In addition to working together to accomplish a task in a night environment aboard an amphibious vessel, the Marines also worked with new gear they had been unfamiliar with prior to the exercise.

“We had some new gear on board that we’d never dealt with before,” said Chief Warrant Officer 2 Matthew Beard, the ordnance officer for Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Aircraft Group 13, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing. “Throughout OT-1, we’ve been trying to integrate with the ship to see if any of this new equipment is different from a legacy mindset.”

Overall, the evolution left the Marines with pride in their accomplishment and increased knowledge on the F-35B and its capabilities, according to Gort.

“Last night, we were making suggestions and giving our input,” said Gort. “We are taking a lot of pride in the fact that the information we provide could shape the future of F-35B ordnance. The payoff with something like that is amazing.”

The data collected from OT-1 will be laying the foundation for the Marine Corps’ F-35B initial operational capability declaration this summer, and future F-35B deployments aboard U.S. Navy amphibious carriers."

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/164895/ma ... -f-35b-sea

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 22:45
by spazsinbad
Marine Corps Aircraft Maintainers keep Lightning II in the sky during OT-1
28 May 2015 Pfc. Remington Hall, Headquarters Marine Corps

"ATLANTIC OCEAN - Vertical landings, low observability, X-ray vision helmets and laser tracking systems are just a few pieces of space-age technology incorporated in the Marine Corps’ F-35B Lightning II.

The tactical power of this 21st Century jet is another example of how Marine Corps aviation is evolving. But it takes more than one Marine in the cockpit to keep this plane in the air.

“Behind all of that flight time, there are many hours of maintenance,” said Maj. Adam Perlin, an F-35B pilot from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Aircraft Group 13, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing. “Without the Marines working on the aircraft, I’m not going to go anywhere.”

On May 18, 2015, Marines from Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22, Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, began working together aboard USS Wasp to support the first phase of Operational Testing (OT-1) of the F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter.

The three teams of enlisted Marines are the real drive behind the operation: the avionics technicians, powerline mechanics and the airframe mechanics.

“In avionics we work with all the communications, navigation, electrical and weapons systems on the aircraft,” said Capt. John Johnson, the officer in charge of the Avionics and Airframe Divisions aboard USS Wasp for OT-1. “The airframes Marines do metalwork and hydraulics; and on this platform, they’re in charge of the low observables, or the stealth properties of the aircraft.”

“Anything involving the fuel and oil system is our responsibility as powerline,” said Sgt. Benjamin Mcintire, a powerline mechanic with VMX-22. “Engines, fuel systems, oil systems, tires and things like that.”

In simpler terms, avionics covers the computers and software of the plane; airframes deals with the outside, or structural side, of the plane; and powerline Marines take care of the aircraft’s mechanical guts.

“We go through pre-flight and post-flight checks of pretty much all the systems, but particularly we have to check the power system before flight.” said Cpl. Jared VanSpeybroeck, an avionics technician with VMFAT-501. “Does he have power; back-up power; batteries; are the systems synced? All of these things can make or break your flight plan.”

Similar to the avionics team’s electronics checks, the powerline team conducts safe-for-flight inspections and after-flight assessments on the structural and mechanical integrity of the plane.

“We make sure each aircraft is safe,” said Mcintire. “It’s a lot of responsibility, performing the in-depth, pre-flight and post-flight inspections, knowing that the life of another Marine is in your hands.”

VanSpeybroeck stated that sometimes the nature of his job as an avionics technician can be very challenging, since the cause of an electronics malfunction can be hard to pinpoint.

“We’re troubleshooters,” said VanSpeybroeck. “The aircraft is a flying computer, so we have to take care of the computer.”

VanSpeybroeck also emphasized that the F-35B requires a joint effort by all maintenance shops in order to run properly.

“If any shop weren’t here, or lacked in capability, then the plane wouldn’t fly,” said VanSpeybroeck. “The F-35 is a finely-tuned machine that requires a broad spectrum of maintenance in order to perform.”

Mcintire recalled a malfunction in one of the F-35’s during OT-1, where the pilot returned from flight with a fuel transfer complaint. After troubleshooting, they discovered one of the fuel boost pumps needed to be replaced. The team had planned for many different maintenance contingencies, and had a spare already packed aboard.

“Airframes removed the panel to access the fuel pump,” said Mcintire. “After our maintenance and testing of the boost pump, the plane returned to service and flew through all of its allotted slots.”


Johnson stated his teams contribute to overall efforts to ensure the aircraft is safe. They confirm the integrity of the aircraft, and that the navigations and the communications systems are all in good order so the pilot can make it back to the ship safely.

“They came together from three different squadrons [based in North Carolina, South Carolina and Arizona), and seamlessly transitioned into one solid unit,” said Johnson. “I addressed them yesterday and told them this is the group I would want to deploy on a Marine Expeditionary Unit with right now.”"

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/164785/ma ... uring-ot-1

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 22:56
by spazsinbad
Marine Ospreys support Lightning out at sea
28 May 2015 Cpl. Anne Henry, II Marine Expeditionary Force

"ATLANTIC OCEAN - As Marines and sailors have been working together to conduct an assessment of F-35B Lightning II integration into amphibious operations over the past two weeks, they are learning to overcome the challenges inherent in maintaining and resupplying one of the world’s most advanced pieces of military technology while out at sea.

One key component of the F-35B Operational Trials, or OT-1, included assessing the maintenance and logistical measures necessary to keep the F-35B flying aboard a U.S. Navy amphibious vessel in standard sea conditions.

The F-35B engine power module found itself at center stage of the OT-1 supply and logistics capability assessment about sixty miles off the East Coast of the United States May 21.

The power module is the largest and most important part of the F-35B’s engine. Weighing about 4,500 pounds, safely transporting this intricate piece of technology from a storage facility on a military base in the States, across ocean waters, and onto the deck of a pitching ship is no easy task. And it had never been done before.

“The power module is the core of the F-35B engine,” said Michael Chotkowski, who is in charge of F-35B deployment integration with Pratt & Whitney. “The engine is broken down into five different modules: fan, augmenter, nozzle, gearbox and the power, which is the number one module.”


Up until a few months ago, there was no way to transport replacement power modules to a ship, or damaged power modules from the ship to a repair facility. That was, until a system was put in place using an MV-22B Osprey, a shipping stand constructed with internal suspension, known as a “buck,” and an overhead bridge crane aboard the ship to insert the power module into the plane.

“Pratt & Whitney had to design and build a shipping buck that could constrain and protect the power module when it is in the back of an MV-22B,” said Jeff Ward, who is in charge of F-35B deployment integration with Headquarters Marine Corps. “The buck, which is the critical piece here, did not exist six months ago. It was created to hold and protect the power module while it is being transported.”

The buck was designed as a portable casing to roll the power module onto and off the Osprey. It also serves to protect the power module in the back of an MV-22B Osprey as it flies across the open sea, where it is subjected to the standard movement and vibrations that are inherent in amphibious flight operations due to high winds and rough water.

“The buck has four solid steel posts and two tools on the front and on the back mount of the engine cases. This provides structural integrity,” said Chotkowski. “It also has vibratory isolators built into it that are tuned to dampen out the frequencies that come from the MV-22B, and could do damage to the bearings in the power module.”

Part one of the operation consisted of loading the power module onto a buck at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland. Next, an MV-22B Osprey from New River, North Carolina flew into PAX River to pick up the module and buck. Then the Osprey flew more than 60 miles out to the ship, touching down on the deck of USS Wasp, as it rolled with the waves. The team then wheeled the buck out of the Osprey and onto the deck of the ship, with just several inches of clearance on either side.

“The process of unloading the module from the MV-22B is very difficult, because even though the module outside of its container is smaller, it is still very large for the MV-22B,” said David Myersm who is a part of the cargo and special operations team with U.S. Naval Air Systems Command. “It took 16 straps to tie it down in the aircraft. Cargo in the MV-22B needs to be restrained in a specific manor, and it takes a lot of straps to hold down 9,000 pounds.”

The next stage dealt with lowering the power module down to the ship’s maintenance bay, and proving the ability to safely transfer the module from the shipping buck into an existing container. This was accomplished by personnel from Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22.

“We had to show that we could use the Navy’s overhead bridge crane [built into the ceiling of the hangar bay] to transfer the power module from the shipping buck to an existing container, where it can be stored for long term if necessary,” said Chotkowski.

The demonstration proved to be successful, allowing for data to be drawn and lessons to be learned for future F-35B deployments aboard amphibious vessels.

“From this evolution, we know that we can now put a power module into an MV-22B and bring it out to an amphibious vessel,” said Ward. “We can now resupply the Marine Corps, Navy and Air Force in any environment by using the MV-22B. This is an important milestone for the program.”"

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/164790/ma ... ng-out-sea

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 23:05
by spazsinbad
PHOTO: “Marines with Test and Evaluation Squadron 22 move a power module for the F-35B Lightning II in the hanger bay of the USS Wasp (LHD-1), at sea May 23 during an evolution part of Operational Testing 1. The F-35B is the future of Marine Corps aviation and will be replacing three legacy platforms; the AV-8B Harrier, the F/A Hornet, and the EA-6B Prowler. (Marine Corps photo by Cpl. Anne K. Henry/RELEASED)” https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1961282/ ... ng-out-sea & https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1961282 (JPG 3.4Mb) & GALLERY 4 photos: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/gallery/setid/535032 (ZIP 9.4Mb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 May 2015, 23:10
by spazsinbad

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 00:00
by spazsinbad
Here is the OLS Optical Landing System used today aboard USS Wasp (refer earlier pages of this thread re NIGHT landings). I'll post original photo (smaller version) then a crop to the OLS top left.
"Maintenance is performed on an F-35B Lightning II on the flight deck of USS Wasp (LHD-1) during night operations, a key component of the Marine Corps’ F-35B operational test May 22. OT-1, scheduled from May 18 through May 29, 2015, is evaluating the full spectrum of the F-35B’s capabilities. The F-35B is with Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, Marine Aircraft Group 13, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, based in Yuma, Ariz. (Marine Corps photo by Cpl. Anne K. Henry/Released) https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1961152/ ... uring-ot-1 & PHOTO: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1961152 (1.25Mb JPG)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 00:07
by quicksilver
Not a good view of the OLS.

From the cockpit it looks almost identical to a fresnel presentation -- two horizontal datums and a ball that moves vertically relative to the datums to show where one is on the glideslope. Eventually, with a coupled guidance system the pilot will be able to push one button to command an automatic hands-off deceleration to a hover position abeam the ship/intended point of landing.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 00:25
by spazsinbad
Yes - understand about the view. I have pilot views of other OLSs. Good to see that the other day NavAir stated that in future JPALS will provide full auto landings in any weather (probably not typhoons) that is in the JPALS thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14115&p=291823&hilit=error#p291823

DAPS = Deck Approach Projector Sight

Wayback in the wayback the VACC Harrier carried out the first fully automatic vertical landing May 2005 IIRC.

HMS Ark Royal photo original here: http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz34 ... erball.jpg

LUCKY LAST is a screenshot from the VIDEO of the first VACC Harrier (simulating the F-35B controls more or less) VL.


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 02:18
by spazsinbad
The 'fat lady' [not the reporteur] is singing....
Marine Corps F-35Bs depart USS Wasp after carrier tests
29 May 2015 James Drew

"Six US Marine Corps F-35B Joint Strike Fighters have departed the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp following a one-and-a-half-week trial that included 108 test sorties and an F135 engine delivery from a V-22 Osprey as the first combat fighter squadron stationed in Yuma, Arizona, prepares to declare initial operational capability this July.

According to deputy commandant for Marine Corps aviation Lt Gen Jon Davis, each of the 10 F-35 pilots involved are now qualified for daytime carrier operations and another three have received their night-time flying qualifications.

The six aircraft have accumulated 85.5 hours of flight time collectively since arriving on the USS Wasp May 18. Two squadrons participated: Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron-501 of Beaufort, South Carolina, and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron-121 from the Air Station Yuma....

...The stint aboard the carrier focused on operational flying, but also on the logistics of maintaining the B-model on a ship using the autonomic logistics information system, or ALIS. The team was then able to evaluate the V-22 in its future carrier onboard delivery (COD) role by delivering a spare F-35 engine to the ship using a specially-designed rig. The Osprey flew the engine to the Wasp May 21 and departed with the weighty engine May 27.

The general says the logistics evaluation went well despite some complications like not having all the right parts and tools. The marines also trialled management and maintenance of the F-35’s low-observable coating to ensure its radar-evading characteristics could be maintained. “We proved we could do that at sea as well,” Davis says....

...The programme office is currently making corrections to the aircraft’s software to improve its data fusion capability. Those corrections are currently being tested as part of the Block 3i software load, and if successful those fixes will be installed on the Block 2B jets the marines will declare IOC with.

“We intend on taking that 3i software with the fixes to flight test around the last week of June,” says F-35 programme executive officer Lt Gen Christopher Bogdan. “We’ll be spending about 30 days flight testing those fixes, and if they appear to be good, then we will just leave those in 3i for the future airplanes and port them back into 2B.”

The Marine Corps has a requirement for 353 F-35Bs and 67 carrier-launched F-35Cs. The United Kingdom wants up to 138 F-35Bs for its carriers & Italy hopes to buy 30 STOVLs."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ts-412909/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 02:35
by cantaz
Using 3I to fix 2B. Creative.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 02:36
by spazsinbad
And from last... HOW TO HANG ON TO YOUR VIP STOVL SHOOTER:
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/geta ... emid=61642

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 05:28
by spazsinbad
Mebbe that is the way to grab a'holt of THERMION [in pic above]? But jokes aside 'still work to do?' - wait - wot?!
‘Fundamental Change In Direction’ For F-35; Kendall Floats Plan To Buy 450 Planes
29 May 2015 Colin Clark

"WASHINGTON: As I watched the seemingly endless string of F-35Bs take off from the deck of the USS Wasp earlier this week, I was struck by how routine it all seemed.

During eight days of flying, the F-35Bs flew 108 sorties, racking up 85.5 hours, deputy Marine Commandant for aviation, Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, told us on the phone this morning, conceding it was “a low number of hours, really, because the jets were light-loaded…” Low hours, maybe, but that’s the first time these planes were put through their paces in anything like regular military circumstances.... [betcha theys seen plenty of action at YUMA for one thing - but you wasn't there huh.]

...Finally, Davis said that the Thermion deck coating applied to the USS Wasp deck successfully handled the incredible beating from the 40,000 pounds [OH PUHLEEZ - wot comes out of the back end during STOVL? - not 40K - try the 25K not in A/B maximum thrust - other stuff comes out the LiftFan sure but it is way cooler] of thrust from the F-35B engine. The coating, though there were visible scorch marks, “performed to standard,” Davis said. “But,” he went on to note, “there’s more work to do.”"

PHOTO: http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/u ... G_3958.jpg "Thermion coating on USS Wasp May 26 2015"


Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/fund ... 50-planes/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 08:34
by quicksilver
Discoloration is not an indicator of a problem.

Harrier does same thing. See picture at link. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 7833840515

Reporter got the "more work to do" wrong contextually. I won't judge whether it was by intent or by virtue of trying to recontruct from crappy notes, but the "more work to do" remark came in the context of datalink connectivity, not Thermion. (I've seen a transcript).

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 09:27
by spazsinbad
Yes 'QS' I thought that last quote 'more work' was not related to THERMION. Why does not anyone explain to these reporter knowalls about the discolouration? It is tiresome to see them write the same old clichés about the heat. I did not bother to check - did anyone note how soon after the VL (noted by BS apparently) that the Deck Chief went over to peruse 'the damage'? I have been told that in the Harrier world the hot spot could be walked upon as soon as the aircraft cleared the area straight after a VL - so that is in boots - and not bare feet.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 30 May 2015, 11:50
by spazsinbad
As pointed out succinctly by 'QS' on previous page of this thread the amiable butler had this incorrect statement in the long post: [IF THE 'ON THE SHIP' phrase had been deleted by a good sub editor then things are fine - but no}
"...As of May 26, no tires required changing as a result of a failure on the ship. Officials say they would likely perform a tire change even if one is not required to demonstrate procedures in the confines of the ship’s footprint. Poor tire performance on the ship earlier plagued the program, so the OT performance was welcomed by overseers...."

Here ya go - because I are tired and I want to go to bed (freezing in my part of the world this evenin')... A long uninformative ramble is here: http://defensetech.org/2013/09/19/5th-g ... ion-tires/

ABOUT aircraft tyres in general AND NOT about F-35: http://www.goodyearaviation.com/resourc ... manual.pdf (7.5Mb)

BUT go here for succinct goodness (as per 'QS' retort over page).
F-35 Fighter’s Tires Wear Out Too Soon, Pentagon Finds
18 Sep 2013 Anthony Capaccio

"Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Tires that wear out too soon are adding to the troubles facing Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35, the Pentagon’s costliest weapons system.

Landing-gear tires made by Dunlop Aircraft Tyres Ltd. for the Marine Corps version of the fighter have “been experiencing an unacceptable wear rate when operating as a conventional aircraft,” according to Joe DellaVedova, spokesman for the Defense Department’s F-35 program office.

He said the tire, which costs about $1,500 apiece, demonstrates “adequate wear” when the aircraft performs short takeoffs and vertical landings intended for amphibious warfare vessels and improvised runways...."

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... agon-finds

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 00:26
by spazsinbad
Interesting to me to see 'FLUBES' checklists (plastic windows integral to G-suit - the one on left side may be a notepad?) USS Wasp May 2015: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... /05/53.gif & http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 60x640.jpg

FROM: USS WASP F-35B Ship Integration (3)
PHOTO SERIES:
http://www.sldinfo.com/uss-wasp-f-35b-s ... gration-3/

Looks as FLUBES goes COMMANDO with his fingerless gloves (not tolerated in my day but acknowledge that today it seems every - or most NavAvers - go fingerless). Let us hope he is not FULL COMMANDO because that just ain't right. :mrgreen:

AND... wot about that touchie feelie PCD thingo? Who wipes off the greasy fingermarks? Wear gloves - be nice. :devil:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Commando

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 03:08
by sferrin
Fingerless better for touchscreens.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 03:48
by KamenRiderBlade
sferrin wrote:Fingerless better for touchscreens.


Oh, definitely, have you tried to use a touch screen with gloves on?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 04:21
by mrigdon
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
sferrin wrote:Fingerless better for touchscreens.


Oh, definitely, have you tried to use a touch screen with gloves on?


There are capacitive gloves for touchscreens now. Seems like the Marines could afford them, but there might be some other reason for being fingerless.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 04:40
by spazsinbad
I have never seen nor used any kind of touch screen - as per usual I was being a bit facetious about that aspect of the touchy-feely screen.

Yes fingerless gloves seem to be the rage in USN for some time because it is said/believed - or even true - that using fingers in water for actions after parachuting via ejection is much easier. Probably true.

In my time 'hot fings in the cockpit' including fires (it was thought) necessitated having either pigskin gloves (old school) or at that time NOMEX gloves with long sleeves (so your wristwatch was not visible - then put your watch over the sleeve - then pull off your glove without removing watch in error - end of your watch). Later these same NOMEX gloves had leather finger tips all the better for fingertip grip.

BTW there are many photos of F-35 pilots touching the screens with their gloved hands/fingers.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 05:09
by spazsinbad
Marine F-35 pilots conduct 'dogfights' during sea trials
29 May 2015 James K. Sanborn

"...During testing, pilots were tasked with launching simulated attacks on each other or intercepting aircraft attacking the ship. The 'dogfights' showcased the aircraft's technology, which is far more advanced than legacy jets. The F-35 has more sophisticated stealth and electronic warfare capabilities — all in a single airframe.

"When you put together the stealth with the situational awareness, with it being connected to all the other airplanes, with the information sharing — this airplane is going to be pretty darn hard to beat," said Maj. Michael Roundtree, one of the test pilots with Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501 out of Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, South Carolina.

The pilots noted the aircraft's ability to provide "unparalleled situational awareness" through its advanced sensor system, including a $400,000 helmet. The helmet displays all flight data on its visor, allowing pilots to fly without glancing down at their instruments. It also feeds streaming video from an array of six infrared cameras around the aircraft, providing a seamless 360-degree view.

When paired with the aircraft's communications capabilities, F-35 pilots have unprecedented awareness of their environment, Roundtree and his fellow pilots said. Maj. Richard Rusnok, the F-35B detachment officer in charge for Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22, declined to offer specifics on the aircraft's classified radio system, but said pilots can communicate with the ship each other without using radios. The system, which is shrouded in secrecy, allows pilots to silently and seamlessly divvy up targets [MADL or secret sauce NIFC-CA?]...."

Source: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/m ... /28070165/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 06:23
by lookieloo
spazsinbad wrote:
Marine F-35 pilots conduct 'dogfights' during sea trials

Source: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/m ... /28070165/
Ya know, since the 2B software's A2G weapon-slection is rather limited for the time being anyways, why not put the F-35Bs to use for Fleet-defense? It's a simpler mission and would take better advantage of the plane's VLO capability than CAS.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 06:51
by spazsinbad
No need to pidgeon hole the STRIKE FIGHTER Bees into any particular role I reckon - like the poor mans fleet defender - the A-4 in various guises was used by at least three navies in that role AND not just as a light attack / mud mover as most think. Even today the Brazilian Navy has upgraded their A-4KUs to a new standard for fleet air defence (off an aircraft carrier which may never put to sea again - however there is some hope for that in a few years - maybe). viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27365

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 07:20
by spazsinbad
This shooter doan needno backstop. :mrgreen:
"150526-N-BQ308-157 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 26, 2015) Rear Adm. Cynthia Thebaud, commander of Expeditionary Strike Group Two takes the shooter stance while she launches an F-35B Lightning II off the flight deck of USS Wasp (LHD 1). Wasp, with VMFA-121 and VMFAT-501 embarked, is underway conducting the first phase of operational testing for the F-35B aircraft, which will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness in an at-sea environment. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist William Tonacchio/Released)"

PHOTO: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1957495 (0.8Mb)

Source for a bunch: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1957495/ ... WqnDekw8kI

At same general URL the UNK shooter photo on previous page [ viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27345&p=291889&hilit=shooter#p291889 ] has this to say:
"150526-N-BQ308-154 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 26, 2015) Vice Adm. William Hilrides, commander of Naval Sea Systems Command takes the shooter stance while he launches an F-35B Lightning II off the flight deck of USS Wasp (LHD 1)...."

Photo: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1957492

At again same general URL we see the VADM perhaps shedding a tear and needing comfort from the back holder? :mrgreen:
"150526-N-BQ308-153 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 26, 2015) Vice Adm. William Hilrides, commander of Naval Sea Systems Command salutes an F-35B Lightning II pilot just before the pilot takes off from the flight deck of USS Wasp (LHD 1)...."

PHOTO: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1957485

Nah just joshin' becuz here he goes again - full monty: https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1957486

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 12:45
by Dragon029
mrigdon wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
sferrin wrote:Fingerless better for touchscreens.


Oh, definitely, have you tried to use a touch screen with gloves on?


There are capacitive gloves for touchscreens now. Seems like the Marines could afford them, but there might be some other reason for being fingerless.


My 2 year-old phone (Galaxy S4) can detect finger touches through gloves quite well; it has an IR sensor under the screen which allows it to detect and track the position of a finger a good 1 or 2cm off the screen. They also (I believe) use this technology for gloved phone use; I've found it to work quite well with my flame-resistant gloves, through the leather.

That said, they might also just be using old-school tech and using something like a IR grid sensor; where you have IR LEDs and photodetectors around the edge of the screen; by looking at what beams are blocked when a finger (gloved or not) touches the screen, you can detect where it is. The catch with this tech however is it doesn't allow for multiple fingers; it's also potentially sensitive to dust and dirt.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 13:20
by quicksilver
mrigdon wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
sferrin wrote:Fingerless better for touchscreens.


Oh, definitely, have you tried to use a touch screen with gloves on?


There are capacitive gloves for touchscreens now. Seems like the Marines could afford them, but there might be some other reason for being fingerless.


Tactile differentiation of cockpit switches.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 16:39
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:BTW there are many photos of F-35 pilots touching the screens with their gloved hands/fingers.


Maybe it's just personal preference. I remember seeing a Tomcat pilot with fingerless gloves as well, years ago.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 20:18
by quicksilver
Without looking (or sometimes without being able to see) find and manipulate Koch fittings, find and release leg restraints, find and activiate the correct switches on the right and left consoles, find and manipulate manual inflation of one's flotation devices, find and operate individual elements of ones survival kit...and so on. Each action benefits from tactile differentiation, and in some cases, particularly in extremis, allows one to simply function and survive.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2015, 23:35
by spazsinbad
I'll agree with 'QS' on the reason - however - in my days the switches in our aircraft older than the A4G could bite seriously for different reasons, whilst the likelihood of electrical fires could be high, proper gloves were mandatory. So this attitude continued in the A4G, where probably it was less relevant. In any case one can discard the gloves easily enough so whenever A4G pilots were in the water that was their thing to do first, if not before, when in the chute (some did not have that luxury because they ejected at deck level).

I liked the pigskin gloves a lot and they would be the worst when wet but extremely easy to discard (glove stopped before wrist). Those early NOMEX gloves were really shitty and not much better with the leather inserts etc. However again, the risk of fires in the cockpit was high in those days, with those gloves the result, along with NOMEX flying suits; which again in the first instance were extremely scratchy to wear, then a Mk.2 version came along which had much smoother NOMEX fabric and more wearable as a result.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 04:27
by MD
I always carried gloves with me for preflighting and such, but never wore them for flight due to the loss of dexterity. Of course, always being in hot environs, I always had me flightsuit sleeves slid up too.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 04:54
by spazsinbad
Well... :mrgreen: apart from sunburn you would have been severely chastised in my olde worlde. :mrgreen: Being NAVY we learnt to suffer. :doh: Luckily the A4G had great aircon which made ice in the right conditions and I flew with my feet permanently frozen - no matter the weather. Otherwise our old UK jets had hopeless aircon and were not very waterproof. The Macchi MB326H tandem trainer had a long bubble canopy that was a shocker for heat in our land down under. So bad was it that the RAAF constructed shelters on the concrete tarmac over at the main training base to shield all and sundry from 'waiting in the heat' at RAAF Pearce. NAVY? No. Suck it up. :mrgreen: Truly it got hot inside when in the sun along with all the metal parts - bare hands? Nuh Uh.

A study made to justify the 'carports' in WA said some amazing amount of fluid was lost during a Macchi sortie over there. I trained on the sodden Vampire just as the Macchis arrived. Then when the A4Gs were gone from our land the KIWIs took on the role of battering our RAN ship fleet for a decade based at NAS Nowra and also doing their A-4K/KAHU flying training there at the time.

They made carports pronto but they did have some amazing avionics to protect in the KAHU in those days - and they made a park brake. Sheesh. :mrgreen:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 06:43
by charlielima223

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 06:49
by spazsinbad
Thanks 'CL' worth noting this aspect from the story above: + the THREE VIDS!
VIDEO Of F-35B Operational Tests Aboard USS Wasp, With Gorgeous Views Of DC From V-22
31 May 2015 Colin Clark

"...The F-35Bs should be able to generate a higher sortie rate than can the Marines’ current fighter operating from the USS Wasp and other amphibious ships, the AV-8 Harrier, the Marine pilots told us.

One of the important links between the V-22s and the F-35Bs is the ability of the Ospreys to fly the five modules of an F135 engine in to a ship for replacement, a key capability during war time, not to mention one needed just to keep the fleet flying with as few visits to shore as possible for the Marine version of the Joint Strike Fighter...."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/vide ... from-v-22/






Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 12:20
by quicksilver
"...The F-35Bs should be able to generate a higher sortie rate than can the Marines’ current fighter operating from the USS Wasp and other amphibious ships, the AV-8 Harrier, the Marine pilots told us."

Sounds like junior bird man with Hornet background who has never been to sea with the rest of a MEU.

It's easy to generate sorties when one aircraft type has the entire ship and everyones undivided attention for an OT period.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 13:08
by sferrin
quicksilver wrote:It's easy to generate sorties when one aircraft type has the entire ship and everyones undivided attention for an OT period.


I'm sure that thought never occurred to the USMC pilot. He's probably a nugget who just graduated from training wheels. :roll:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 13:16
by spazsinbad
'sferrin' These Bee pilots can be slagged as much as you wish however are not all of them for the moment experienced? Nuggets do not get into the F-35 system YET. Context will be important in any statement about sorties from a ship. There is no context - except this one (vague as it is - 6 Bees on a WASP). How 'bout 6 Harriers on a WASP - ever been done? Probably when CarQual/ShipQuals or whatever the STOVLies call it - Op Testing for AV-8Bs? Dunno. I'll not get carried away.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 18:12
by bring_it_on
sferrin wrote:Still can't wait for the helicopter shots showing the entire ship with the six F-35s parked there. :drool:


The best we have is 5 :)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 18:47
by sferrin
spazsinbad wrote:'sferrin' These Bee pilots can be slagged as much as you wish however are not all of them for the moment experienced? Nuggets do not get into the F-35 system YET. Context will be important in any statement about sorties from a ship. There is no context - except this one (vague as it is - 6 Bees on a WASP). How 'bout 6 Harriers on a WASP - ever been done? Probably when CarQual/ShipQuals or whatever the STOVLies call it - Op Testing for AV-8Bs? Dunno. I'll not get carried away.


That was sarcasm. For this kind of testing I would be surprised if they didn't have some of their more experienced (knowledgeable) pilots. I would think they would have a pretty good idea what they're talking about. :)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 22:01
by spazsinbad
I'll guess there will be a big fanfare when the first nuggets from ordinary training go through the F-35 School House to first flight. YES experienced pilots fly the F-35s at moment and for good reason. Meanwhile back at the ranch....
F-35B Wasp Tests
01 Jun 2015 John A. Tirpak

"​Six F-35Bs made a "highly successful" test aboard the USS Wasp amphibious assault ship during an eight-day evaluation that concluded Friday, said Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, USMC aviation chief. Speaking with reporters via telecom from a Joint Strike Fighter executive committee meeting in Norway, Davis said the six jets flew 85.5 hours, racking up 108 sorties. "We got 10 pilots qualified" in the F-35B for carrier takeoffs and landings, Davis said, noting that three were qualified for night operations.

Landing signal officers (LSOs) also were qualified, and some 91 marines received training in fixing and turning the F-35Bs and both "managing and measuring" their low observable features aboard ship. The things discovered were "little things … a part here or a tool there," but overall the test went "as expected," Davis reported.

A spare engine was apparently[?] flown out to the ship on an MV-22 fitted with a special "cradle to fit it inside," he said. "Thermion coatings" applied to the deck of the Wasp to make it more resilient against the heat of the vertical-landing F-35Bs exhaust, also "worked well," Davis said.

In addition, a deployable version of the Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) performed "very well," he said. Pentagon acquisition chief Frank Kendall during the same telecon said, "This tells you where the program is," reflecting "steady progress" and offering a glimpse of "the future of the program.""

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pa ... Tests.aspx

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jun 2015, 23:53
by quicksilver
sferrin wrote:
quicksilver wrote:It's easy to generate sorties when one aircraft type has the entire ship and everyones undivided attention for an OT period.


I'm sure that thought never occurred to the USMC pilot. He's probably a nugget who just graduated from training wheels. :roll:


Sarcasm noted. Now here's the rest of the reality for you --

About half-to-two thirds of the gents out there came from Hornet world; the rest from AV-8s. No nuggets. The Hornet guys were flying to/from/on/off of a big deck Gator for the first time, including the squadron CO.

Hornet guys have little/no reference for 'normal' when it comes to STOVL flight ops on an amphib. Where exactly would they have acquired experiential knowledge of such things? Their understanding of Harrier history is fragmented, anecdotal and often fraught with community folklore. The assumption is that Gators are just like CVNs except smaller; not so, and the differences are not even close. They won't fully appreciate the differences until they make a deployment somewhere, and that won't occur for a while.

They have heard the horror stories from their AV-8 squadron-mates about deploying aboard a big deck Gator for 6 mos and not getting to fly much. Lotsa reasons for that, not the least of which is that amphibs primary mission is not to generate strike sorties. Generally speaking, it is to transport, train and support multi-purpose amphibious forces across a wide range of missions and geographic locales. In practical terms that means that there are other priorities that often impede the ability to fly jets, including: time spent in port; other training priorities; necessary ship movement at odds with launch and recovery winds; risk aversion; and occasionally, personalities. Amphibs get stretched in lotsa different directions, and the resulting consequence is that those variables can result in a 100% difference in how much flying that jets do aboard amphibs. The other major piece is that the jets are a small part of the aviation component on board the ship (the MEU ACE). Thus, other priorities from within the ACE will similarly impose themselves on the already complex dynamics of operations aboard amphibs. That's the reality.

The good news is that a new aircraft and an injection of new eyes into the amphib environment will catalyze new thinking and help establish new capabilities and new norms. That will be good for the USMC, the USN and the US of A.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2015, 00:06
by sferrin
quicksilver wrote:
sferrin wrote:
quicksilver wrote:It's easy to generate sorties when one aircraft type has the entire ship and everyones undivided attention for an OT period.


I'm sure that thought never occurred to the USMC pilot. He's probably a nugget who just graduated from training wheels. :roll:


Sarcasm noted. Now here's the rest of the reality for you --

About half-to-two thirds of the gents out there came from Hornet world; the rest from AV-8s. No nuggets. The Hornet guys were flying to/from/on/off of a big deck Gator for the first time, including the squadron CO.

Hornet guys have little/no reference for 'normal' when it comes to STOVL flight ops on an amphib. Where exactly would they have acquired experiential knowledge of such things?


So what you're saying is they're prone to spouting BS with no frame of reference? Doesn't sound very professional to me.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2015, 00:12
by quicksilver
"So what you're saying is they're prone to spouting BS with no frame of reference? Doesn't sound very professional to me."

Oh c'mon...

They're voicing their belief based on what is limited knowledge. They dont know what they dont know...yet.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2015, 00:52
by spazsinbad
Thanks for the overview 'QS'. To me I see a corollary for early deployment of A4Gs - only Four - out of a possible Eight (the rest back on training squadron plus two trainer aircraft not able to operate from HMAS Melbourne). Being FOUR on an otherwise ASW specialised carrier meant that we flew not as often for 'fleet defense'. Later when more A4Gs available for more missions, such as the more popularly known ship strike/AtoG, then EIGHT or MORE A4Gs onboard sometimes helped shift the thinking to a more capable - other than ASW only - carrier. These shifts in paradigm take time for sure; whilst the new eyes/thinking will make a huge difference to all F-35 ops over time. Go Navy or whatever - Go Gyrenes? :mrgreen:

ALSO I think most journalists go for the 'sparkling' quote and for whatever reason (I could go nasty) they do not provide the context or the QUALIFYING further remarks pertinent to that SPARKLER (my dog is bigga than your dog etc....). :doh:

AND... the most memorable quote of my existence (told to a bunch of new middies at NAS Nowra by the CMDR Air in a meet and greet: "What you don't know you don't know - you don't know" boom boom. The context would be we had all been trained by the RAAF - who are noted NavAvers. Then we had to knuckle down to LEARN NavAv! AND... how to frickin' land using Opt AoA (or constant low airspeed just above stall in our old training jets) with the mirror and minimise the flare or HAVE NONE in the A4G/SeaVenom. Joy Oh Frabjous Jay. :mrgreen:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2015, 16:36
by spazsinbad
I can see some black exhaust impinging on the very used deck - but don't tell any reporters.
"https://www.dvidshub.net/image/1965619/uss-essex-operations "150525-N-IC565-025 PACIFIC OCEAN (May 25, 2015) An AV-8B Harrier from Marine Medium-lift Tiltrotor Squadron (VMM) 161 (Reinforced) prepares to land on the flight deck of Wasp-class amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD 2). (U.S. Navy Photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Bradley J. Gee/Released)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/1965619

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2015, 23:41
by spazsinbad
PIGskin Gloves seen at the end of this video about 'how to fly the circuit ashore' in a T-2 Buckeye (first version T-2A).

Approach and landing of a US Navy T2J-1 Buckeye trainer aircraft. HD Stock Footage


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 05:41
by spazsinbad
A great deal to read if interested in the maintenance issues aboard USS Wasp for the F-35Bs during recent OT-1 - including THERMION - I'll just post pilot info excerpts - however there is a bunch more.... Go read.
Aboard the USS Wasp: Participants in Operational Testing Provide a Progress Report
02 Jun 2015 Robbin Laird

"...Question: What about flying the aircraft on and off the ship? How did that go?
Captain Andrew Smith: The aircraft itself flies fantastically. It’s an incredibly smooth flying airplane that is much easier to fly from a pilot perspective than the Harrier was, especially around the ship and the ship environment.

The training we did for this detachment was much less than the training we did in a Harrier fleet to get to a ship. And that’s just a testament to the ease of the airplane to fly, the pilot vehicle interface, as well as the simulators that we have on shore that allow us to recreate to a high degree of detail the ship environment.

We took pilots from across the spectrum. From East Coast, West Coast, Harrier, Hornet, two-seat, single seat, ship experience, no ship experience since flight school and we put them on this deck very easily in a very short amount of time with a short amount of adapting to the ship environment.

And you saw the results today.

It is a testament to the ease of the airplane, to its design specifications to how they execute those design specifications, and how easy it is for us to just adapt to flying the airplane.

The ship boarding rate is as high if not higher than the Harrier right now. I don’t enough data points to give you an exact number, but I can tell you from experience over a large number of landings in the Harrier and observing in the tower that this airplane is going to have a fantastically high boarding rate.

Question: What is a boarding rate?
Captain Andrew Smith: That’s the ability of the airplane to get aboard the ship without having to divert ashore. It’s something we’re very concerned with because we’re always trying to maintain the ability to divert in case of a problem. Well, we haven’t had any problems.

Question: What is the difference between flying the Harrier and the F-35B with regard to operating on this ship?
Captain Andrew Smith: The takeoff and landing portion of the F35 is seamless with the ship. It is much easier to execute from the pilot perspective as well as the single officer perspective up in the tower.

We were able to, in a very short period of time, smooth out all of our process with the ship, have a team of three organizations come together, fly together for the first time, set up standard operating procedures (SOP) and function around the ship in a seamless manner.

And most of that is due to the fact that the jet takes care of a lot of the task loading that was resident in the Harrier and is not resident in this airplane. So now we are able to pay attention to flying around the ship, and being a good steward of the aircraft and the ship at the same time, and bringing aboard exactly on time, exactly on the fuel safe [state] that I’m looking to be aboard by.

Question: What blocks of software on the six airplanes?
Captain Andrew Smith: There are four block 2B aircraft and two block 3I aircraft...."

...Question: How would compare landing on this ship versus a large deck traditional Navy carrier?
Major Brendan Walsh: The first major thing that I noticed was that the deck is straight line all the way in. In many ways that takes a lot of the variables out of the landing pattern that you even have to do in daytime.

And you use an optical landing system very similar to what we have on the big deck carriers. But then you also get to stop over the ship. And you don’t have that last two seconds of very intense ball flying as we call it, CPM, where a lot of things can go wrong if you’re not very careful with your power settings or hitting the verbal on the backside of the carrier.

So the fact that you kind of get to stop and square yourself way and then you have another landing aid.

The hover position indicator which allows you to stop
, get yourself in position before the landing signals officer clears you to land, its less emotional...."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/aboard-the-uss-w ... ss-report/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 05:48
by spazsinbad
Thought to make the UK take on THERMION separate - from same article from SLDinfo above:
"...Question: What has the British team learned from these trials that requires more work? What about the deck, for example?
Lt. Cdr. Neil Mathieson: The US and Royal Navies are certainly aware of the impact of the impact of F-35B jet launch on the deck. You will have seen on the flight deck something with a slightly different color coating. That is a product that working with the Naval Research Lab as a research program with regard to high temperature deck coatings.

The UK is working hand in glove with N95 to understand that deck coating improvements and take it across with application on Queen Elizabeth. Commercial and issues involved, there is a company in the UK that does this work as well as a company in the US that does the work.

And it’s really a research program just right now where we are measuring temperatures in the deck structure and learning if that product is going to be good enough to coat with. So that’s one area we are learning every single day. And actually one of many that we’ve seen throughout the week where we see an issue, we’re working the issue and we’re confident that there will be a solution by the end of the day...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 08:30
by spazsinbad
I do not recall seeing this video before from DT-II in 2013 - it has good quotes from pilots about NIGHT OPS aboard WASP.

OOPs - here it was here earlier - my bad - still a good video for the flavour of recent OT-I: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=24438&p=259867&hilit=Interviews#p259867

Crew Interviews from F-35B Ship Trials
Published on Sep 19, 2013 LockheedMartinVideos

"Hear from the Marine and Navy aviators and maintainers that were aboard the USS Wasp for F-35B ship trials in August 2013."


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 18:46
by spazsinbad
F-35 OT-1 By the Numbers
USS Wasp, Atlantic Ocean // June 03, 2015

"Over the past few weeks, the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) conducted Operational Test-1, or OT-1. This exercise was intended to evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness while at sea. Data and lessons learned from OT-1 will lay the groundwork for F-35B deployments aboard U.S. Navy amphibious carriers following the Marine Corps’ F-35B initial operating capability (IOC) anticipated next month. To learn more, check out this quick wrap-up of the tests, by the numbers.

6: The number of F-35Bs aboard the USS Wasp from May 18-29 to conduct USMC OT-1. This marks the most F-35s ever deployed at sea at once.

240: Number of personnel who supported OT-1. This included everyone from maintainers to pilots and engineers to photographers from the Marines’ VMFA-121, VMX-22, VMFAT-501, MALS-13, and MALS-31, as well as a handful of Lockheed Martin employees.

108: Number of sorties completed during OT-1. During these sorties, Marines assessed several aspects of the F-35’s operational abilities, including aircraft-to-ship communications networks tests, and the latest release of Landing Signal Officer Launch and Recovery software.

4: Number of times OT-1 pilots had to take-off and land at night. Pilots flew the night operations without the assistance of night vision goggles or the F-35’s Distributed Aperture System, so communication with the on-board crew was key. According to Maj. Michael H. Rountree, a Marine Corps pilot who participated in OT-1, the jet was easier to fly than legacy aircraft, and he was "a lot less terrified" to carry out a night landing in the F-35B.

30: Number of maintenance demonstrations conducted aboard the USS Wasp. One of special note was the engine transfer test. During this test, Marines flew an Engine Power Module F onto the USS Wasp in an MV-22, unloaded it, and transferred it to the F-35 to stage an engine replacement exercise.

1: Number of Autonomic Logistics Operating System ALIS Standard Operating Units aboard the Wasp. This is the first ALIS unit installed at sea. During OT-1, the Marines assessed the newest version of ALIS, version 2.0.0, and its ability to transfer from land-based operations to sea-based operations. According Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, deputy commandant for Aviation, Headquarters Marine Corps, “ALIS worked very well to achieve our turnaround times.”

0: The number of “show stoppers” that occurred during OT-1, according to Lt. Gen Davis. He remarked that the F-35 is “right at home at sea.” "

Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/f-35-ot ... he-numbers

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 19:15
by spazsinbad
On page 2 of this thread 'Jon' posted F-35B/WASP details. We know one aircraft was replaced by a spare at some time but anyway here is anotherie. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27345&p=291318&hilit=VMFA#p291318

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 21:27
by checksixx
spazsinbad wrote:.... How 'bout 6 Harriers on a WASP - ever been done? Probably when CarQual/ShipQuals or whatever the STOVLies call it - Op Testing for AV-8Bs? Dunno. I'll not get carried away.


Good Lord, I hope you're not serious...of course its been done plenty of times/deployments...photo's.....

Image

Image

Image

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Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 21:40
by spazsinbad
This is the quote and in context with earlier comments by others (on previous page):
"Post01 Jun 2015 23:16 'sferrin' These Bee pilots can be slagged as much as you wish however are not all of them for the moment experienced? Nuggets do not get into the F-35 system YET. Context will be important in any statement about sorties from a ship. There is no context - except this one (vague as it is - 6 Bees on a WASP). How 'bout 6 Harriers on a WASP - ever been done? Probably when CarQual/ShipQuals or whatever the STOVLies call it - Op Testing for AV-8Bs? Dunno. I'll not get carried away."

'checksixx' I do not know how long you have been reading this forum [20jul2005 I see now] however I distinctly recall posting similar information that you have provided going back to the beginning (AV-8As on USS F.D.R. back in 1976-77) with a post here for example:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18021&p=215962&hilit=Roosevelt#p215962 (6feb2012 and there are less long informative posts earlier than that)

Now my comment - to explain - was how to compare 6 AV-8Bs ONLY on an LHA - compared to 6 F-35Bs ONLY on an LHA. The circumstance I surmised might be as described. Otherwise an LHA is chockablock with aircraft - or not. Right?

Add-On: Recently tiddly rogeraway posted a story about that FDR thing: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-ti ... 1692022146

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2015, 21:52
by spazsinbad
Screenshot of FIVE Bees onboard from the best quality video version.

F-35B trials in USS Wasp, May 2015, part VI - [low quality video] HIGH QUALITY is here:

https://www.dvidshub.net/video/407436/o ... ke-fighter
&
https://www.dvidshub.net/download/popup/407436


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 00:00
by spazsinbad
Here is an old quote from a 2002 article about USMC Harrier AV-8B landings where the 'boarding rate' issue is explained again I hope.
Marine Corps Harriers: Expeditionary firepower from the sea
01 May 2002 Rick Llinares Naval Aviation News

"...Former VMA-542 operations officer Major Steve Hagerty described what it's like to fly the one-of-a-kind jet. "During conventional flight, the handling and flight characteristics of the Harrier are similar to any other high-performance tactical combat aircraft. However, the Harrier's powerful Rolls-Royce Pegasus engine provides nearly 24,000 pounds of thrust. It accelerates quickly, like a dragster, and uses thrust vector control to direct engine thrust downward through four exhaust nozzles, which augments wing lift and results in short takeoff distances. The stick response is very smooth and controlled and with practice the vertical landing becomes fairly routine. Once on deck, the Harrier can again take off vertically and transition to conventional flight at up to 585 knots or 1.0 mach." In a typical daytime approach and landing in the AV-8B, Harrier pilots follow a sequence during the landing process that is not unlike that of their Navy brethren on the carrier. The primary difference is that there is one additional control lever, and the intent is to "Stop and Land" rather than "land and stop." The ability to stop and land provides first-pass boarding rates near 100 percent and allows the routine use of night-vision goggles for night recoveries.

Former VMA-542 skipper Lt. Col. Eric VanCamp described the steps a Harrier pilot goes through to land aboard ship: "The AV-8B pilot approaches the ship at 800 feet and 350 knots. Passing close up the right side of the ship, the pilot extends roughly 10 seconds and snaps the stick to the left, rolling the jet into a 4- to 6-0 turn. Simultaneously, the pilot pulls the throttle to idle with the left hand and then moves the exhaust nozzle lever to the 60-degree position while easing off the turn. "Rolling wings level on the downwind leg (opposite direction of initial heading), the pilot descends to 600 feet above ground level. As the aircraft decelerates through 300 knots, the pilot moves the flap switch to the short-takeoff-and-landing position, which causes the flaps to automatically program with nozzle position once the airspeed goes below 165 knots. The pilot extends the landing gear at 250 knots or less, and adds power sufficient to maintain on-speed flight at about 110 knots.

"The engine water injection switch is then moved to the landing position allowing for added thrust if needed. During takeoffs and landings, water can be injected into the turbine section of the AV-8B's engine to provide an additional 1,500 pounds of thrust if required.

"Continuing the turn, the pilot descends to 450 to 500 feet above ground level behind the ship-- referred to as 'rolling into the groove'--on a line running up the left side of the ship until the jet is at 300 feet above the water. The pilot makes a 'hover-stop' call to the landing signal officer [LSO], who helps talk the pilot down to a safe landing. At this point, the pilot smoothly slides the nozzle lever to hover-stop. This moves the nozzles 90 degrees pointing downward. The pilot then adds power as necessary to maintain glideslope position as indicated on the tower's optical landing system. The pilot controls the deceleration rate by slightly adjusting the attitude of the Harrier's nose. The jet is now alongside the intended point of landing, a mere 120 feet over the water and just 60 feet above the deck of the ship. The LSO says 'clear to cross' and the pilot moves the jet sideways to a hover over the designated spot. Once stabilized in the hover, the LSO clears the pilot to land and the pilot eases gently down and chops the throttles to idle. From this point the nozzles are moved to aft and the jet taxies as directed by the flight director."

Source: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Marine+Co ... a087374258

AND from the Robbin Laird 02 Jun post on top of this page is the F-35B 'boarding rate quote' for comparison:
"...The ship boarding rate is as high if not higher than the Harrier right now. I don’t enough data points to give you an exact number, but I can tell you from experience over a large number of landings in the Harrier and observing in the tower that this airplane is going to have a fantastically high boarding rate.

Question: What is a boarding rate?
Captain Andrew Smith: That’s the ability of the airplane to get aboard the ship without having to divert ashore. It’s something we’re very concerned with because we’re always trying to maintain the ability to divert in case of a problem. Well, we haven’t had any problems...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 01:06
by quicksilver
Absent an engine fire, failure of the nozzle drive air motor servo, or lack of RCS duct pressure, one will always come aboard in Harrier. The first pass boarding rate is astronomical compared to jets that come aboard with hooks/wires etc. That's why Farley talks about recoveries with such -- comparatively speaking -- frightfully small fuel states.

Boarding rates are not even tracked in Harrier ops. It is a non-issue.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 02:11
by spazsinbad
Yep I get that - but for the use of 'boarding rate' the issue becomes clouded. :devil: STOVL PILOTS SHOULD SHUT UP - PARTICULARLY LSOs! :mrgreen: Prolly influence of the CTOL types eh. :doh: For example (and I have many re 'CTOL "boredom rates" :mrgreen: ) AND... these are only a few of the many CTOL mentions of that 'boarding rate' thing.
"...In addition to this critical safety task, in the training environment, the LSOs must also track pilot performance,
calculate real-time grade point averages and boarding rates, and make quick decisions as to whether or not to
halt a student’s progress based on their trends. Currently, all of these tasks are being done by hand...." [bankers]

"...(10) Hook skip bolters. Hook skip bolters may or may not count against boarding rate. If the hook skip was pilot induced i.e., fast nose down or dropped nose to land, then the hook skip shall be graded as a bolter and count against boarding rate. If the hook skip was not pilot induced, the pass will be graded as a "no-count" and shall not be counted against boarding rate...."

"...Effects of Deck Motion: Due to basic geometry and the pivot point of the ship’s hull, a Flight Deck heaving 5.5 feet will cause the tailhook touchdown point of an aircraft on a 3.5 degree glide slope to move ±90 feet forward or aft in the landing area. Rough seas that pitch the ship ±3 degrees about its axis can cause over 20 feet of vertical ramp movement. Pitching decks can cause the FLOLS system to exceed its stabilization limits. Boarding rates during heavy seas can plummet below 50%...."

WOW! This quote is from 1990 when new landing aid tech was introduced - prescient huh? AUTHOR: "...instructor at the LSO School, an FRS instructor pilot and an LSO with VF-101. APPROACH Sep 1990 USN Flight Safety Magazine
"...The only problem I foresee with the new technologies is the following scene:
(Paddles enters the ready room for an LSO debrief)

Paddles: “Who was in 103?”
Dangerboy: “I was.”

Paddles: “Let’s see . . . SRD.X HIM CD.DLIC LL NOGRADE 3-WIRE.”
Dangerboy: “NO-GRADE?! I caught a 3-wire!”

Paddles: “So did the rest of the recovery. We had to target the 2-wire for awhile to give the 3-wire a rest. You were high in the middle.”
Dangerboy: “I was only three balls high!”

Paddles: “I know, but you landed THREE FEET LEFT!"

We could live with this."

"...The ultimate objective of every carrier approach is a safe arrested landing, or trap. There are many constraints to the landing task. Structures and safety physically constrain carrier landings, while operational requirements demand a high boarding rate (the percentage of approaches that result in a trap). Off-centerline landings are dangerous due to the proximity of personnel & equipment; short (low) approaches hazard striking the aft end of the ship. High approaches will fail to catch a wire. The structural limits of the hook and cross-deck pendant determine the maximum landing velocity. Sink rate is limited by the landing gear structure. Additionally, hook geometry requires the aircraft to land with a positive pitch angle, optimally five degrees, because the main gear must touchdown first. The positive pitch angle is also necessary for the hook to engage the wire....”

"...BOLTER AND WAVE-OFF OVERVIEW
Not all approaches end in an arrested landing. Midway’s Air Wing strives to reach a boarding rate goal of approximately 95% during the day, and 88% at night (today’s boarding rates are closer to 98% day and 96% night). This means that during the day, at least 95% of all aircraft successfully trap aboard on their first attempt. Unsuccessful landing attempts may be the result of either a bolter or a wave-off...."

"...As for Combat Boarding Rate (CBR), it is calculated by the number of traps divided by the total number of “attempted‟ traps with 90% being the goal for Case I/II and 85% for Case III. Both metrics are related to each other due to the fact that a bolter obviously hurts both your EF [Event Factor] as well as your CBR. Historically speaking, it tends to be a bit harder for Carrier Air Wings to achieve their Combat Boarding Rate numbers...

[earlier]...What are Event Factor (EF) and Combat Boarding Rate (CBR)? Event Factor measures the ability for the flight deck and air wing to work together to maximize lethality and survivability. Here is how it is measured over the course of a launch and recovery: Event Factor = (Total # of Launches + Total # of Recoveries)/(Minutes Elapsed)"

"...8.1.1 Flight Operations in Pitching Deck
When deck motion exceeds the stabilization capabilities of the IFLOLS as determined by the Staff LSO
(approximately 8 feet of total deck movement in less that 4 seconds), utilization of MOVLAS should be considered
for fixed wing aircraft recovery. If the deck is steady for extended periods between deck swings consideration should
be given to leaving the IFLOLS rigged and utilize LSO talk-downs during deck swings. This will maximize boarding rates.

Note
IFLOLS Stabilization capabilities are approximate and may vary depending on CV/N...."

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 02:56
by spazsinbad
Perhaps this is what the STOVL pilots were getting at? Difficult for me to say - not having that experience.... Remember also the F-35B pilots were NOT using aids that will help a lot when the new fanglies become available. Footnote 59 'recovery equipment' not so good - will be irrelevant once JPALS is installed on LHAs / F-35Bs.
V/STOL SHIPBOARD RECOVERY: “IT’S NOT JUST ANOTHER CARRIER LANDING”
12 Apr 2002 Major A. G. Shorter, United States Marine Corps

"...Conversely, the CV has always relied on the capability to launch a tanker aircraft used to refuel other aircraft if a pilot cannot get aboard for any number of reasons. This provides him the flexibility to continue trying, to attempt to find better weather, or to send the aircraft to an in-range divert. The boarding rate for a Harrier, on the contrary, is 100%, due to the ease of the procedure once the landing spot is visually acquired.58 The lack of a tanker aircraft, therefore, even from the early days when the aircraft was more challenging to fly, has never been a problem. The two questions that emerge from this discussion are:

1. Why are the day and night weather minimums for currency higher for V/STOL than for CTOL?

2. Why are there night field FCLPs required for V/STOL and not for CTOL? [CTOL aircraft practice BEST at NIGHT though - fewer distractions and more realistic land setup to simulate CVN]

The two concerns that could possibly account for higher or more restrictive V/STOL weather minimums for the currency requirements would come from a concern for the L-Class operating environment, which means higher safety margins are required to compensate for less than the precision equipment and its operators. Also, as mentioned earlier, the Harrier pilot must be able to visually acquire the ship in order to realize the 100% boarding rate, and he probably only has fuel for two attempts. In addition, the minimum ceiling is raised for recurrency training to ensure that the ship can be visually acquired earlier to allow for a controlled decelerating approach. A former wing commander, indeed, claims that the ship’s personnel and training are sub-par to that of a CV, and the Harrier Review Panel maintains that both surveillance and precision approach radars are “unacceptable by U.S. Navy carrier standards.”59 The first claim is subjective and debatable, but can be attributed to the aforementioned problems with the L-Class ships’ multi-role nature. The second claim is real, and is another factor that can be attributed to increasing the minimum weather requirements for currency over that of CTOL operations of the CVs.

Night recovery is based on either the Case III (same as the instrument recovery) or on a Case I profile, Case I if using night vision goggles (NVG’s). The difference between the instrument recovery and night Case III recovery is that the pilot never really receives any of the normal daytime cues that he gets after visually acquiring the ship. In the worst case, that of a dark, overcast night, there will be no references to the horizon other than what the aircraft instruments provide. To make matters worse, if there is any significant sea state, the movement of the ship, especially roll, can exacerbate the problem of determining where the level horizon is. [An ex-A4G/SHAR pilot has commented that in this severe case landing opposite the island is NOT recommended.] These are the factors that significantly increase the night recovery workload. Normally, and if within the range of a divert field, an aircraft that does not have a fully operational Gyro platform and a headsup display (HUD) to give the pilot usable artificial horizon position will not recover to the ship at night. At night, inside a mile, the pilot uses two sets of reference lights to establish a hover over the landing spot. Just as in the day, the recovery aircraft speed has been reduced to match that of the ship, albeit more by procedures than with the eye. As long as the pilot is able to scan his HUD for true horizon positioning, he can use the normal ship positioning cues and hover position indicator (HPI) lights to complete the deck recovery.

While instrument and night recoveries in the Harrier community are considered more difficult due to their reliance on the strict adherence to procedures, the final portion, however, more closely resembles a daytime fair weather V/STOL recovery than that of a CTOL recovery. This is where the challenge of finding the ship gets confused with landing on the ship. Why is it, then, that the USMC’s night currency requirements are more stringent than those of the U.S. Navy?...

NOTE 58: The 100% boarding rate is based on landings made once the aircraft has transitioned over the ship’s deck."

Source: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Lo ... =ADA407726 (PDF 110Kb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 04:58
by quicksilver
Yoohoo, hello...Spaz... :poke:

Boarding rate is not tracked in the Harrier community. It does not mean they dont know what the term means (they all qualified as tailhookers in flight school) -- it is not tracked, period. It is an irrelevant metric.

Tailhook Navy spends alotta time tracking it. Harrier (and now, F-35 guys) do not. It is an irrelevant metric because in practical terms, it cannot be improved.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 05:56
by spazsinbad
Fair enough - today - so why was SHORTER mentioning it in the excerpt - to define it as quoted:
footNOTE 58: The 100% boarding rate is based on landings made once the aircraft has transitioned over the ship’s deck."

I'll guess like I have been told in the SHAR world that there are approaches - especially from RAFcrabs & beginners - when they overshoot the ship whilst getting alongside in the high hover, and not able to transition, to do what I believe is called 'an anchor inspection' from which apparently recovery is most difficult, except to 'go around again'. Perhaps if an experienced STOVL pilot made such a beginner error he may be able to hover backwards a bit so to speak - but not a beginner. What does the USMC call these oopsies?

:doh: :mrgreen: BTW tell the F-35B pilots NOT TO MENTION THE BOARDING RATE EVER AGAIN! ForFsake. :devil: :doh:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 12:06
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:Fair enough - today - so why was SHORTER mentioning it in the excerpt - to define it as quoted:
footNOTE 58: The 100% boarding rate is based on landings made once the aircraft has transitioned over the ship’s deck."

I'll guess like I have been told in the SHAR world that there are approaches - especially from RAFcrabs & beginners - when they overshoot the ship whilst getting alongside in the high hover, and not able to transition, to do what I believe is called 'an anchor inspection' from which apparently recovery is most difficult, except to 'go around again'. Perhaps if an experienced STOVL pilot made such a beginner error he may be able to hover backwards a bit so to speak - but not a beginner. What does the USMC call these oopsies?

:doh: :mrgreen: BTW tell the F-35B pilots NOT TO MENTION THE BOARDING RATE EVER AGAIN! ForFsake. :devil: :doh:


sld has some good articles, but Mr. Laird needs to hire an editor. I betcha the quote that is attributed in the article to Captain Andrew Smith in fact came from somebody else (like one of my aforementioned Hornet guys flying aboard a Gator for the first time). Capt Andrew Smith is actually CAPT Andrew Smith USN (see picture at the link you provided) and is either from the WASP or ESG-2. He sure as sunrise didnt fly off the WASP in an F-35 and couldn't have made the comments suggesting same, to include the one about boarding rate. Betcha...

Shorter was making the point about boarding rate to illustrate the degree of difference between 'landing and stopping' and 'stopping to land.' Some USMC Harrier guys will tell you they haven't seen wave off from the hover, ever (except in CQ, for the obligatory training X). How's that for a boarding rate? If one overshoots the hover point abeam the assigned landing spot before the cross, the correct procedure is to "...stop the jet and let the ship catch up." It hovers abeam spots 3 or 4 just as well as it does spots 7 or 9. If somebody overshoots that badly, the CO needs to fire the LSO.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 12:13
by spazsinbad
Agree about SLDinfo they can be sloppy and amateurish sadly spoiling some otherwise good presentations. I do not see how they think what is put online is OK - they must not read it there and someone must - at least for proofreading.

Probably the 'anchor inspection' pertains to UK Harriers of various types and RAFcrabs/Hairiers. All the points taken re boarding rate. As SHORTER points out the RNFAA Harriers did things differently compared to USMC on LHAs etc.

The F-35Bs will be different again especially probably on CVFs when they get going.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 12:24
by quicksilver
spazsinbad wrote:Agree about SLDinfo they can be sloppy and amateurish sadly spoiling some otherwise good presentations. I do not see how they think what is put online is OK - they must not read it there and someone must - at least for proofreading.

Probably the 'anchor inspection' pertains to UK Harriers of various types and RAFcrabs/Hairiers. All the points taken re boarding rate. As SHORTER points out the RNFAA Harriers did things differently compared to USMC on LHAs etc.

The F-35Bs will be different again especially probably on CVFs when they get going.


Having seen both, I think they're more alike than dissimilar. "Anchor inspection" is just an understated, humorous alternative to "wtf was that??"

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 13:37
by Dragon029
I loved the lighting at this part of the video, so I made it into a gif / gifv (gifv = a version of a gif that's ~20x smaller in file size but with identical quality):

Image

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 21:38
by spazsinbad
'QS' said above "...Having seen both...". Both AV-8s? Anyway here is a comment about RAF Hairier crabbiness aboard the INVINCIBLE class with their various types (with a comparison to RN SHAR goodness) methods. I have not remembered all the variations in UK Harriers but there were some notable differences in hardware for hovering flight and how to etc. Anyway here is a quote from a well-experienced ex-A4G gone on to better things in the SHAR world pilot. CRABS = RAF

PHOTO: http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz34 ... erball.jpg
Lowball Stovie
11 Aug 2010 'Youngnavy'

“...The crab thought process is that the 2.5 degree setting on the “glide path” (for want of a better name) is too steep! 4 degrees is considered really steep, 1 degree is nearly crab acceptable, level deceleration is what crabs prefer.

Crabs err to the flat/low side every time and it always leads to sadness.

Think of the geometry, the ship is steaming away in excess of 20 knots, the wind speed is usually 15-20 knots, so a 2.5 degree glidepath is into 35-40 knots of headwind, and the landing position is always moving away from you, so the effective angle is somewhat less than 1 degree.

What a good 2.5 degree glideslope gives you is perspective of the ship, a good feel for rate of closure, and a nice level of separation from the water.

On the other hand, flat approaches give no perspective, making it very hard to judge rate of climb or descent, also you get nearly no feel for the rate of closure, & you only have 80-90 feet separation from the water when still half a mile out from the boat. Until they have learned, crab pilots (and now young navy pilots in GR9s) have anxiety ridden early approaches where they nearly hit the water, & overshoot the landing spot, [anchor inspection] all because they can't fly the meatball. Argghhh!!!”

Source: http://ontheroger.proboards.com/thread/ ... all-stovie

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2015, 21:42
by spazsinbad
'Dragon029' I saved the F-35B Lift Wasp animation above and it is 30Mbs as a .GIF on my Win8.1 computer. What is the file size that you uploaded?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2015, 00:24
by Dragon029
Sorry, I didn't really explain it well; .gifv files, at their core, are essentially .mp4 or .webm videos; they're just a new thing because HTML5 only came out late last year; HTML5 is a language for websites (what you use to create a website) and one of it's new addition is an international standard for displaying and embedding videos, without having to use plug-ins and add-on programs like Adobe Flash Player. Specifically, it provides the ability to play .mp4, .webm and .ogg video files.

When you download a copy, Imgur assumes you want a .gif version (most .gifv videos have large .gif source files, so I'm not sure why they do this) and serves you that massive file; the actual .gifv / video is around 550kb (which is why it loads so fast).

Downloading .gifv files as a webm or mp4 is a pain in the a$$ due to how it's hosted (they'll continually redirect you
to the .gifv file itself, which is nothing but a bit of code linking to the actual video elsewhere), but I've done it and attached a copy to this post.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2015, 01:09
by mk82
Dragon029 wrote:I loved the lighting at this part of the video, so I made it into a gif / gifv (gifv = a version of a gif that's ~20x smaller in file size but with identical quality):

Image


A perfect scene for Topgun II :mrgreen:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2015, 01:20
by spazsinbad
OK - thanks for the explanation.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2015, 01:43
by Dragon029
spazsinbad wrote:OK - thanks for the explanation.


If you'd like to use a .gif for a PowerPoint, etc, just let me know and I can do one up at a more sensible file size; I'd just need to be given an upper limit to the size and what you value more; frame rate, animation length or image quality.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2015, 03:04
by spazsinbad
No thanks - just curious about file size but you have explained and I can go from there if need be. Used to embed stuff in my PDFs but then took it all out because ended up not compatible with future versions - so much for Adobe promises eh.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 05 Jun 2015, 08:35
by spazsinbad
Another Power Module F135/V-22/Wasp 22 May 2015 Pic: http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews ... .image.jpg

Previous B ROLL F-35Bs on WASP at low quality (no longer available) now higher quality here:


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 06 Jun 2015, 07:22
by spazsinbad
WhY? Becuz I like 'em: and it is one VL ONLY - short loud and sweet. :mrgreen:

F-35B Landing Aboard USS WASP
One week ago? - figure it out - SLDinfo.com

https://vimeo.com/128969078 14Mb best qual .MP4 : https://vimeo.com/128969078/download?t= ... ec53f1757d

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 07 Jun 2015, 04:16
by spazsinbad
Marine Corps proves F-35B’s capability at sea, looks over horizon to IOC
05 Jun 2015 Maj. Paul Greenberg Headquarters Marine Corps

"ATLANTIC OCEAN - The Marine Corps F-35B operational test (OT-1) successfully concluded aboard a U.S. Navy amphibious ship, USS Wasp (LHD-1), on May 29, 2015.

Setting off from Norfolk, Virginia on May 18, USS Wasp cut an arc between 50 and 100 miles off the coast of Virginia and North Carolina, as Marine Corps pilots safely conducted 100 short takeoff and vertical landing sorties from the ship.

About 120 Marines from the following squadrons came together with U.S. Navy personnel, civilian contractors and partners from industry to make OT-1 a success: Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 22, based in New River, North Carolina; Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, based in Yuma, Arizona; Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501, based in Beaufort, South Carolina; and Marine Aviation Logistics Squadrons 13 and 31.

Four F-35B aircraft from VMFA-121 and two from VMFAT-501 participated in this test, with 10 operational Marine Corps pilots racking up more than 76 flight hours in the F-35B.

Over the course of two weeks, the Marine Corps and their Navy partners met the following OT-1 objectives: safely conducted 100 F-35B takeoffs and landings during day and night extended range operations; confirmed reliability of Block 2B software configuration; confirmed aircraft-to-ship network communications interoperability; trained and certified a new F-35B landing signal officer; proved the efficacy of the F-35B landing signals officer's launch and recovery software; documented the crew's ability to conduct scheduled and unscheduled day and night maintenance activities; confirmed the suitability of F-35B maintenance support equipment for shipboard operations; proved the feasibility of the logistics footprint of a six-plane F-35B detachment aboard a U.S. Navy amphibious ship; safely conducted day and night weapons loading.

OT-1 was punctuated by another major milestone: the transport of an F135 power module, the largest and heaviest part of the F-35’s engine, from shore to ship on an MV-22 Osprey. The module and specifically-designed carrier weighed out at almost 9,000 pounds. Marines and industry partners overcame several engineering and logistical challenges to prove that critical F-35B engine repairs can be accomplished through the use of emerging technology and existing capabilities.

"With the U.S. Navy replacing their Carrier On-Board Delivery aircraft with the V-22, this new capability could enable them to resupply all aircraft carriers and big deck amphibs with both the F-35B and F-35C engine modules," said Jeff Ward, who is in charge of F-35B deployment integration for Headquarters Marine Corps. "This is an important milestone for the program."

The next milestone in the Marine Corps’ F-35B program, initial operating capability, or IOC, is scheduled to take place this summer.

The U.S. Marine Corps Deputy Commandant for Aviation, Lieutenant General Jon Davis, has directed that a team of Marine Corps F-35 experts carry out a final operational readiness inspection (ORI) in July before declaring the first squadron of 10 F-35B fighter jets at VMFA-121 ready for initial combat use at IOC.

The Marine Corps-led ORI team will report the findings of the inspection to Lt. Gen. Davis. The Commandant of the Marine Corps will then make a decision as to whether the F-35B is ready for IOC based on those findings.

“This will be an outcome-based measurement of readiness, assessing whether VMFA-121 as a whole is ready to perform the mission it is assigned,” said Davis. “If the ORI is completed in July, and we are confident that the aircraft are ready for world-wide deployment, then we’ll declare IOC in July. If that doesn’t happen until August, then it will be August. Bottom line is that we won’t rush this; we are doing this the right way.”

Following the Marine Corps’ F-35B IOC declaration, the aircraft will be ready for future deployments aboard U.S. Navy’s fleet of amphibious carriers. The first deployment is scheduled to take place in 2017, when VMFA-121 will deploy to Iwakuni, Japan.

“As the Marine Corps supports the President's strategy to rebalance in the Pacific, we’re bringing the most advanced technologies and capabilities of our force to the region with the F-35. This capability enables our Corps to support regional partners during crises by enabling our forces to perform a wide range of missions across multiple domains. As we modernize Marine fixed-wing aviation assets for the future, the continued development and fielding of the short takeoff and vertical landing Lightning II remains the centerpiece of this effort.”..."

Source: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/165591/ma ... orizon-ioc

Same story at SLDinfo: http://www.sldinfo.com/a-marine-corps-u ... ps-in-ioc/ with this picture: http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploa ... 8A0252.jpg
Caption: The Osprey flew a key module from the F-35B engine to the WASP. The modification was designed and paid for by industry and will the focus of an upcoming interview. Credit: Second Line of Defense"

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2015, 19:37
by spazsinbad
A lot of this so called 'analysis' is about the recent F-35B WASP OT-1 time so I'll plonk the HOWLERS here. OMG do aviation writers really know their stuff? I have to just excerpt this paragraph first because - well - you'll see....
"...A thermal coating on the deck also “performed well”, Davis adds. The F135 engine produces nearly twice the thrust of the R-R Pegasus engine on the Boeing AV-8B Harrier, and the heat exhaust emitted by the F-35 during a vertical landing can melt an untreated carrier deck. So the protective coating makes sure the aircraft can operate safely aboard ship....
&
[Earlier because this is real important]..."The short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35B has still not attended an international air show, but it will soon be available for combat....."

ANALYSIS: F-35B poised for prime time at last
13 Jun 2015 Stephen Trimble

"...Not much is likely to change for VMFA-121 in the months following the IOC declaration. The unit will be available for operations if called on, but it is not scheduled for its first deployment – to Iwakuni, Japan – until 2017. By that time, the US Air Force should have declared the first squadron of the conventional take-off and landing F-35A to have achieved IOC, with the US Navy following suit in 2018 with a first squadron of carrier-variant F-35Cs....

...Proving the F-35B can operate reliably on an amphibious carrier was the last remaining hurdle before the Marines could declare IOC....

...It was discovered, for example, that the system the USMC currently relies on to automatically monitor and diagnose faults, order repairs and keep track of spare inventories – Lockheed’s autonomic logistics information system (ALIS) – could not physically fit aboard the Wasp. So, all maintenance actions were co-ordinated remotely from Lockheed’s global F-35 sustainment hub in Fort Worth, Texas. As a result, the programme funded a deployable version of ALIS, which accompanied the F-35B squadron on the latest round of embarked tests. [WOT?! ALIS was onboard ALSO for the first time - INSTALLED - am I right?!]...

...Most importantly, the deployable version of ALIS also “worked very well” aboard the ship, Davis says. That “allows us to achieve our turnaround times,” he adds. “We have good interoperability with ALIS on board the Wasp, and there’s an organic system now on that ship.”...

...Maintaining the F-35B’s very low observable signature to radar was another objective of the last deployment. Previous stealth aircraft required extensive post-flight maintenance to re-apply radar-absorbent materials and adhesives that cover gaps on panels.

“We proved we could do that at sea as well,” Davis says. “All in all, a successful deployment. We got what we wanted out of the shipboard period, and now we are tracking the additional items we have to do to accomplish our IOC objectives.”...

...One of the reasons for calling the F-35 a “fifth-generation fighter” is the aircraft’s ability to fuse data from multiple sensors, both on board and from other aircraft. The pilot can use that information to track and positively identify targets that could not be identified using a single sensor. But the Block 2B software’s fusion algorithms are still not working properly.

In formations of more than two aircraft, the F-35’s sensor fusion computer often gets confused: each sensor detects a target with varying degrees of resolution, and so the pilot is told by the computer that there are several targets where there is only one.

It is a problem that the navy encountered when developing a similar sensor fusion engine for the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, programme manager Capt Frank Morley told Flightglobal in a recent interview. For the Super Hornet, the air-to-ground capability that is causing problems for the F-35B’s Block 2B software was still challenging, but turned out to be the easy part. Making the sensor fusion algorithms work in an air-to-air environment in three-dimensional space was much more difficult, Morley says.

“We spent about nine months beyond what we expected just to work out the kinks on that,” he says.


The F-35 programme is scheduled to start testing a fix for the sensor fusion problem in a few weeks, Bogdan says. But the Marines could declare the first F-35B unit operational before the fix is ready.

“The fixes we are getting ready to flight test for some of the deficiencies we found in our fusion algorithms and some of our pilot vehicle displays are actually being tested on our Block 3I software,” Bogdan says. “Once we complete that, we will go back and retrofit all the 2B airplanes with those fixes. We intend on taking that 3I software with the fixes to flight test around the last week of June. We’ll spend about 30 days flight testing those fixes, and if they appear to be good, then we will just leave those in 3I for the future airplanes and port them back into 2B.”..."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... st-413469/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2015, 22:27
by quicksilver
The neglect is with NAVSEA and NAVAIR for allowing these 'will melt the flight deck' myths to persist.

"...still has not attended an international airshow...". :wtf: I bet he'd like to take that one back.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 13 Jun 2015, 23:57
by spazsinbad
Perhaps this quote was a half-hearted VERY LATE attempt by 'Navy documents' to quash the 1,700 deg A/B on concrete myth (only inches from it mind).

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26544&p=280077&hilit=Thermal#p280077
"...Heat and stress continue to be priority problems for the aircraft. The F-35B creates 10-20 sec. of thermal input - 400-500F exhaust - during landings, Navy documents show, apparently requiring a 12 X 12-ft. steel plate 1-in. thick for specific primary landing spots to dissipate intense heat and prevent deck warping. There also is concern about "built-up thermal loading with multiple close-sequence landings."..."

Source: 13 OCT 2014 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY; DEFENSE TECHNOLOGY INTERNATIONAL

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 08:38
by gergf-14
Your highness Spaz,

Could The F-35B then land on the normal US carriers over the blast deflectors without causing warping or melting for that matter...?

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 09:01
by spazsinbad
:devil: Thanks for the :poke: curtsy :mrgreen: There is no problem landing on a steel flight deck that can take conventional aircraft... HOWEVER the non-skid coating on that deck may be discoloured or slightly damaged that one time because it all depends on the state of the non-skid prior to the vertical landing. Have a look at a CVN flight deck after a few days/weeks/months of flight ops to see it gets 'damaged' in various places (there are pics on the THERMION thread) but that is tolerated within limits and then the CVN non-skid is replaced.

JBDs have nothing to do with anything regarding the F-35B. IF someone wanted to land an F-35B on the horizontal JBD - accurately - then good luck to them. Otherwise the steel CVN deck is not going to be affected UNLESS (we have been told regarding LHAs without upgrades) sequential VLs by many aircraft are carried out over the same spot (remembering the F-35B can be landed reliably with the nosewheel in the same 1 foot square box). AND that is only my guess because no one is thinking of doing that AFAIK.

What the dear reporters are inaccurately reporting is that THERMION is protecting the deck. IT IS NOT. Thermion is protecting itself from the potential heat damage and as 'QuickSilver' has pointed out THERMIOn does that by quickly transferring the heat energy into the steel deck - thus preserving itself and the non-skid qualities required. AND THERMION lasts a lot longer than conventional non-skid so it is not going to be replaced with same frequency thus saving money over the claimed ten year life span. But we have to wait ten years - OK?

You could search the F-35 forum for 'deck' then search the results for 'skid' to get four pages of goodness or go here for example:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16306&p=207001&hilit=deck+skid#p207001
&
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24053&p=254040&hilit=deck+skid#p254040 (quicksilver on THERMION)

The PDF from whence came the pic below is no longer available shows 'wear pattern' under target wire or a wire?

https://www.corrdefense.org/Academia%20 ... onSkid.pdf

AND go here for some goodness graciousmeness: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=272773&hilit=Tricou#p272773

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 12:45
by quicksilver
"Could The F-35B then land on the normal US carriers over the blast deflectors without causing warping or melting for that matter...?"

JBDs on CVN are to protect personnel and other aircraft from the effects of jet engine thrust blowing horizontally behind an aircraft running at mil power or AB during the run-up and early portion of a catapult stroke. Doesn't have anything to do with where one would VL an F-35B.

WASP had no warping (much less 'melting' :roll:) of the flight deck whilst landing F-35Bs during DT-1. CVN flight deck is much thicker (like, 2x).

Thermion is simply a more durable non-skid; the deck mods are for the long term durability of the structure. Saves money in the long term.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 16:24
by gergf-14
Thanks Spaz,

The pic shows third wire wear and tear no heat or spalling of coating.

Is Thermion a containment or solution?

JBDs are water cooled or just air cooled ??

I understand for already built ships, but why not cool things by running liquid of sorts below the deck,

The decks have a spray system already why not utilize further..??

Quicksilver thank for the abc's of JBD :doh:

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 20:31
by quicksilver
Thermion is a more durable non-skid.

JBDs are water-cooled.

Why don't you read up on the deck heating/Thermion thread, and then come back when you're ready to ask intelligent questions.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 21:08
by checksixx
quicksilver wrote:"Could The F-35B then land on the normal US carriers over the blast deflectors without causing warping or melting for that matter...?"

JBDs on CVN are to protect personnel and other aircraft from the effects of jet engine thrust blowing horizontally behind an aircraft running at mil power or AB during the run-up and early portion of a catapult stroke. Doesn't have anything to do with where one would VL an F-35B.


He was asking because he knows what they're designed for.

quicksilver wrote:Why don't you read up on the deck heating/Thermion thread, and then come back when you're ready to ask intelligent questions.


Coming from someone who cannot even understand a basic question or the reasoning behind such a question.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 14 Jun 2015, 22:56
by spazsinbad
The point of the wear pattern pic was to show that conventional non-skid is not so durable when read with the pointers/URLs given - also a special non-skid is under the wires/landing area on a CVN. THERMION is said to last ten years so even if more expensive there will be savings over the decade - don't know if a special THERMION would be required under the wires/landing area on a CVN. Read the threads to see how complicated applying conventional non-skid can be.
'gergf-14' asked: "Is Thermion a containment or solution?

THERMION is a non-skid application over a slippery steel flight deck. It is a solution to skidding unnecessarily on a wet or moving flight deck. What do you mean by 'containment'? [act of controlling or limiting something harmful?] THERMION is non-skid so it limits this tendency for aircraft/personnel to skid. THERMION is much more long lasting and able to resist the effects of the F-35Bs particularly, as described. And yes - how about reading the threads? You will find answers to all your questions. Perhaps you do not comprehend that the cycle of steel plate heating and cooling is the issue, whilst probably sudden water cooling of the deck surface is not good for this cycle and exacerbates this 'SKIDDING' effect with the wet deck. NavAv have been on slippery moving flight decks for donkey ages and know what they require.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2015, 17:46
by hurricaneditka
gergf-14 wrote:Your highness Spaz,

Could The F-35B then land on the normal US carriers over the blast deflectors without causing warping or melting for that matter...?

I'm ignorant, but if you're imagining landing with the tail end of the Bee over the JBD (which is the only way I can picture it working), then won't the angle of the JBD push the hot engine exhaust towards the front of the jet? Wouldn't it create a greater chance of hot air ingestion, basically defeating the "curtain" of cold air that the lift fan generates which prevents that?

Image

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2015, 18:01
by archeman
hurricaneditka wrote:
gergf-14 wrote:Your highness Spaz,

Could The F-35B then land on the normal US carriers over the blast deflectors without causing warping or melting for that matter...?

I'm ignorant, but if you're imagining landing with the tail end of the Bee over the JBD (which is the only way I can picture it working), then won't the angle of the JBD push the hot engine exhaust towards the front of the jet? Wouldn't it create a greater chance of hot air ingestion, basically defeating the "curtain" of cold air that the lift fan generates which prevents that?



JBDs fold flat (flush with the deck) when not in use.
Kind of like the trunk of your car folds down flat when it's not in use.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 15 Jun 2015, 18:59
by spazsinbad
Picture this: FORGET ABOUT THE JBD - however as 'archeman' says it can be FLAT flush with the flight deck and like any other suitable landing spot on CVN flight deck. 'hurricaneditka' STOP IMAGINING BullDustFlyingAbout! You will feel better.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2015, 21:25
by spazsinbad
OT-1 Successful
02 Jun 2015 CODE ONE

"...During the evaluation, ten pilots from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 (VMFA-121) at MCAS Yuma, Arizona, and Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501 (VMFAT-501) at MCAS Beaufort, South Carolina, flew 85.5 hours on 108 sorties. Three pilots qualified for night operations.... Thermion coatings applied to the deck of the Wasp to make it more resilient to engine exhaust during vertical landings..." [IF only it was made clear that the THERMION is protecting itself - the non-skid deck coating - not the deck, then all would be well in THERMIONland]

Source: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/news_ite ... em_id=1418

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2015, 22:16
by gergf-14
:bang: sometimes things need to be drawn and colored in,

i see thermion as a non skid with positive heat protection benefits, but i see under the surface cooling more long term for the deck structure,

ie deck has plumbing already under the surface for the sprinkler system, why not use it as a under the surface cooling system then the F35Bees can land on most landing points.

JBD's are an example of an solution and not an containment which i see thermion, makes sense for already in service ships,

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 16 Jun 2015, 22:43
by spazsinbad
'gergf-14' do you wish to dispute what has been reiterated many times now - not only on this thread but elsewhere - as indicated on this thread? THERMION is a non-skid coating to the deck. THERMION acts as a non-skid coat and nothing else. THERMION transmits heat more readily to the steel deck than does conventional (currently in use) non-skid deck coatings (that are not THERMION) so how does that equate to your "...i see thermion as a non skid with positive heat protection benefits..." TO WHAT is protection given? Protection is provided by THERMION to itself - to resist hot exhausts and to last longer, much longer, than conventional non-skid coatings.

A sprinkler system is providing water in an emergency thus flooding the compartments in which it is switched on. How does this help? You do not seem to understand that a fix is provided by the experts involved. Extra steel plates are put 'between the ribs) under the landing spots that require this fix. Simple huh. No plumbing modifications required. No flooding of compartments and on and on.

Please explain what you mean by this sentence:
"...JBD's are an example of an solution and not an containment which i see thermion, makes sense for already in service ships,"

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2015, 11:31
by spazsinbad
Wade through the tortured prose to get an idea of how the F135 power module got to be on a V-22 going to USS Wasp.
Shaping a New Capability for the Osprey: Delivering the F-35 Engine to the USS Wasp
14 Jun 2015 Robbin Laird

"...As Chotkowski put it with regard to the engine: “the F-35 engine is modular”.

This facilitates maintenance for one is able to troubleshoot issues within the engine itself and then isolate the problem to a particular module and then swap it out and replace it with a good module.

This allows the maintainer then to put the engine back together and allow it to fly its next mission, instead of requiring test cells to verify the engine.

With regard to the engine for the B, there are nine modules, five of which are engine related and four of them are lift system related.”

But the largest module is quite large and with the surrounding container to protect the engine, a challenge for normal replenishment methods at sea.

The cables to move parts and supplies between a Military Sealift Command (MSC) ships and carriers or amphibious ships max out at 10,000 pounds of lift, and the engine’s power module is about that weight. This means that mods will have to be made to the cabling lift system to move heavier material, such as the power module.

According to Chotkowski: “There is a 12,000 pound lift system developed but it will go only onto new ships that are being built or will need to be retrofitted in existing Nimitz or L-deck ships, and supply ships, which will require investment dollars.”

Alternatively, one can carry the power module below a helicopter like the CH-53 but there are the challenges of safely carrying the engine below the helo while operating at sea as well. And MSC can contract a Super Puma, but you would not want to fly an engine “dangling underneath the aircraft for any length of time,” Chotkowski cautioned.

As Chotkowski explained: “We have containers for each one of the modules for the engine as well as the lift system. The one that presents us the biggest problem is the power module because of the fact that the two methods of resupply available to us for those two service’s, that being vertical replenishment (VERTREP) or connected replenishment (CONREP) are both tasked to their maximum extent of the capability that exists today.”

The Osprey seemed a potential solution to this problem, but it first had to be determined whether the module could fit in the Osprey and then if it did so successfully, could it be transported safely given the operating characteristics of the Osprey itself. Being able to carry the power module inside the Osprey, plus its ability to be refueled meant that the Osprey became a very desirable solution set for the power module supply issue.

To determine whether this could be done, industry invested its own money in an effort to shape a possible way ahead.

According to Chotkowski” “Pratt and Whitney started the process and started to look at the capability of utilizing the V-22 to get the loaf of bread inside the breadbox, so to speak.”

Pratt put together a non-disclosure agreement with Bell-Boeing and the companies began to work on how to do this.

As Chotkowski described the process: Bell Boeing was extremely receptive to working with us on a solution.

So we put together an NDA, and then we kicked off a basic design for length, width, height, maximum: how big is the breadbox, and how big is our loaf of bread, and how can we minimize the profile of a container that will transport this power module, but still keep that loaf of bread secure.

The challenge is that the loaf of bread is almost the same size as the inside of the V22. We had about three inches of play.

We had to make a very low-profile skid, and taking into consideration the basics of does it fit and will it go for the ride?

And go for the ride meaning, the engine’s ability to take whatever shock instances the aircraft incurs, either through landing or during loading, or during flight of the aircraft, as well as vibratory considerations with the V22 itself.

Although the Marine Corps was apprised of this activity, there was no requirement no government funding in place for this project. It was company driven, but customer appraised.

The Marines did fly an Osprey to the P&W facilities in Connecticut during the evaluation process, so that the P&W engineers could have accurate measurements and discuss operations with loadmasters and aircrew to craft a realistic solution set, including loading and unloading the module through the door which was about the size of the module with container cover.

Secretary Stackley, Assistant Secretary of the Navy (Research Development and Acquisition) pushed hard for a solution set for the power module resupply problem and the emerging skid solution seemed to fit the bill.

Industry designed the concept skid. This was an eight to nine month process. But the next step was for the Marine Corps working with the Joint Program Office to build the rapid prototype skid seen aboard the USS WASP. Major General Walsh, Director of Expeditionary Warfare in OPNAV, was instrumental in transitioning the effort from industry to JPO sponsorship, and the JPO money crucial in funding the prototype skid.

In short, the next phase of the Osprey now includes modification to become the key connector for power module resupply for the Navy fleet in support of the USMC...."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/shaping-a-new-ca ... -uss-wasp/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 18 Jun 2015, 06:37
by spazsinbad
Earlier (SO THESE ARE OLD VIDEOS) 'QS' found the 'Butler DID IT' [on the WASP] videos here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27345&p=291729&hilit=Butler+substantial#p291729

NOW two are on Youtube.
F-35B trials in USS Wasp, May 2015, part III [& IV]
Published on May 28, 2015 ON THE ROGER

"Vid by aviationweek.com
Read more at https://ontheroger.proboards.com "




Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2015, 04:24
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Part V looked like B-Roll footage for the opening of Top Gun 2. Great stuff.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2015, 04:43
by spazsinbad
Part V from DoD already on this thread but here it is 'ON THE ROGER' (BTW this is the term from the olden prop days for being "on glideslope' and used in the UK RN FAA SHAR worlde of olde for same). https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-PJVf ... dLQ/videos


Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2015, 05:03
by Jon
Thanks Spazsinbad

That confirms for me the identity of all six aircraft (listed below). The one I couldn't fully confirm was VK-17 - only knew that it was nose number 17 up till the above video.

F-35B 168719 VK-01 of VMFA-121
F-35B 168721 VK-03 of VMFA-121
F-35B 168722 VK-04 of VMFA-121
F-35B 168840 VK-17 of VMFA-121
F-35B 169023 VM-10 of VMFAT-501
F-35B 169024 VM-11 of VMFAT-501

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2015, 05:06
by spazsinbad
'Jon' keep in mind one F-35B in the test was replaced during the testing. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27345&p=291697&hilit=Wasp+replaced#p291697 found by 'zerion'.
Tests show Lockheed’s F-35B ‘right at home at sea,’ U.S. Marines say
27 May 2015 ABOARD THE USS WASP | BY ANDREA SHALAL

"...One F-35B jet had to fly back to shore after a landing gear warning signal came on after takeoff, but it was replaced by another jet standing by at a North Carolina Marine Corps base, officials said. They called the incident minor...."

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/ ... TZ20150527

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2015, 08:46
by spazsinbad
Photo of B '17' with VMFA-121 'VK' aboard WASP is on page 14 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27345&p=292192&hilit=anotherie#p292192

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2015, 21:22
by spazsinbad
The P&W spokesperson wappididywap :mrgreen: in PARIS airshow June 2015 video about the P&W F135 engyne here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJEhIso7ics says that during the OT-1 test some 100 VLs with STOs ranging from 350 to 500 feet were carried out - a bit meaningless because we do not know STO weights however it gels with other info from other CVF spokesperson wappididywap2 :mrgreen: "300 feet from ramp" was it? AFAIK.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2015, 00:40
by quicksilver
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/04/14/docs- ... hot-noisy/

A little history to remind some about what a long putt ship ops were supposed to be.

Astonishing that some of these people have any skin on their hands for all the hand-wringing that was going on.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2015, 01:07
by spazsinbad
Similar HEADline, Same Reporter here - one has to ask - was this reporter wearing Ear Protectors/Muffs whatever? Probably not:

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/05/nois ... h-testing/ 27 May 2015

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 22 Jun 2015, 12:54
by spazsinbad
A THERMION Brochure Page I have not seen before - text quote from there: BTW the spelling is atrocious in this PDF.
TH604 “CERAMIC CORE”
11 Sep 2003 QUALITY ASSURANCE OFFICE Laboratory Division

"TH604 is a ceramic oxide core wire composed of aluminum and up to 46% by volume of ceramic oxides. This is “patented” process which allows a high percentage of ceramic within an aluminium matrix.

...PURPOSE:
To provide a wear resistant surface to steel and aluminum that is long lasting and protects against corrosion while maintaining an average coefficient of friction of 1.1.

USES:
1. Corrosion, wear, abrasion, and impact, when applied to a steel substrate this material will provide corrosion protection and wear resistance properties. It provides equal corrosion protection as that of pure aluminum and wear resistance far superior to that of any material presently known to have both these unique properties....

...3. Anti-skid coatings for car/truck ramps, forklift loading ramps, aircraft landing areas, or any application requiring both nonskid and corrosion protection....

...* The Ceramic Core material is applied with higher density to obtain the maximum wear for high surface contact areas."

Source: http://www.thermioninc.com/pdf/TH604brochure.pdf (8.6Mb)

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 29 Jun 2015, 19:22
by spazsinbad
Some more ALIS onboard WASP during OT-1 info.
An Update on F-35 Maintenance: The Perspective from the USS WASP and From MCAS Beaufort and Yuma
22 Jun 2015 Robbin Laird

"...And reports from the operators aboard the USS WASP were that the ALIS system worked well. Major Brendan Walsh, USMC, FMFA-121 Operations Officer, Yuma, Arizona noted the following with regard to ALIS performance and the way ahead:
"The way developmental tests use ALIS is completely different from the way that the operational squadron use ALIS. So, because those aircraft are very unique compared to the fleet aircraft, they don’t use the standard systems that are here. It’s kind of an apples and oranges comparison in that respect.

We spend a lot of time trying to risk reduce coming out here for the ship and transfer. That was a major portion of our planning to make sure that went very smoothly, and as we’ve already stated it did go incredibly smoothly.

As far as the deployable capability we currently have SOUV 1, that’s Squadron Operating Unit Version 1 onboard and that is permanently installed in racks. We have a special space, and this was provided through NAVSEA, special space for the appropriate security and classification to have it on board. It’s essentially bolted into the space right now.

And then when the SOU Version 2 comes out which is already being delivered to 121 in Yuma, then that will allow us to do one of the unique things with amphibious shipping is our ability to disembark from amphibious shipping once we get in the theater. Then it’s something that is very unique to this ship into the units that embark with this ship is we don’t necessarily have to stay aboard the ship.

The operational environment, the requirements say go ashore, and base ashore, and base of foreign operating bases. SOUV 2 will allow us for all intents and purposes, the same hardware is packaged differently and will allow us to take it off and put it in a forward operating base and to operate effectively and efficiently closer to troops away from the sea base we have currently."


Progress has clearly been made to date with regard to F-35 maintenance and a solid foundation is being laid for the US and its partners to sort out an effective path ahead.

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/an-update-on-f-3 ... -and-yuma/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Jul 2015, 06:44
by spazsinbad
ARTICLE below is long - ONLY the NONskidBITs there - other FOD not relevant. ANOTHER thread has the information about the BONHOMME RICHARD problems: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=277230&hilit=Thermion+Bonhomme#p277230
Nonskid, unforeseen problems plague ship maintainers
29 Jun 2015 Lance Me. Bacon

"NEWPORT NEWS, Va. — Heavily corroded tanks and voids that greatly increased yard time and cost are not the problem they once were, but Navy maintainers are now plagued by unforeseen problems with gas turbine engines and problems with nonskid. In fact, the latter has crippled a second ship less than one year after a botched resurfacing delayed the deployment of amphibious assault ship Bonhomme Richard.

Nonskid laid on the amphibious transport dock Mesa Verde in early May didn't cure right, Navy Times has learned. The Bonhomme Richard had the same problem last year, when a $2.3 million resurfacing passed initial tests but didn't hold up in hot weather. Officials blamed the problem on a lack of ventilation in the large enclosures used at Fleet Activities Sasebo, Japan.

Bonhomme Richard was the "straw that broke the back," according to Rear Adm. Bryant Fuller, chief engineer of Naval Sea Systems Command. There had been numerous reports of delaminating and cracking aboard the big deck, as well as foreign object damage to Marine AV-8B Harrier engines, Fuller told attendees of the MegaRust 2015 Naval Corrosion Conference.

A Failure Review Board convened after Bonhomme Richard. Authority for nonskid departures from specifications (there were 16 in the past year) was taken from waterfront chief engineers and had to be approved by Vice Adm. William Hilarides, head of Naval Sea Systems Command. Fuller, who likened this to car keys being taken from a young driver, said the engineers "got our keys back about six weeks ago," just before the problems on Mesa Verde surfaced.

Without a pause, nonskid was identified as the biggest challenge for carriers and amphibs by Ray Vickers, corrosion control program manager for Naval Air Force Atlantic. Failures are expensive, and compounded by the introduction of the Joint Strike Fighter and V-22 Osprey.

Nonskid did not hold up well amid the force and heat from the F-35B, the Marines' jump-jet variant of the JSF. A new Highly Tolerant Temperature Resistant thermal spray nonskid coating was applied to the amphibious assault ship Wasp, which is hosting the JSF's shipboard operational tests, and has held up "really, really well," Fuller said.

Joking that an F-35 engine costs about as much as an aircraft carrier, "to FOD one of those engines, especially while it's doing [testing and evaluation] type stuff, really would have been bad," he said. "We don't want to be anywhere close to being responsible for FOD'ing one of those things."

Officials called on engineers to expand the life expectancy of nonskid. Polysiloxane nonskid shows promise, as it has higher temperature resistance. Officials expressed interest in the robotic application of thermal spray, [THERMION by ROBOTS] while companies such as PENTECH Inc. have developed a spray application designed to prevent pinholes and provide an even application. Jessup Manufacturing also demonstrated the first approved peel-and-stick nonskid to compete with 3M, which will likely drive a price drop...."

Source: http://www.navytimes.com/story/military ... /29279173/

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jul 2015, 21:04
by spazsinbad
From 'Combat Aircraft Monthly August 2015' a story about OT-1 with F-35Bs aboard USS Wasp May 2015 (6 pages into 3).
OT-1 on the USS Wasp
August 2015 James Deboer

"As the US Marine Corps detaches its F-35Bs to the USS Wasp for operational sea trials, Combat Aircraft embarks for this special report. report and photos: James Deboer

The deck of the Wasp is equipped with a thermal coating at landing spots numbers 7 and 9. NAVSEA was on board for the latest trials, looking at the deck spots and where the take-off shots are initiated, these being the areas most susceptible to heat damage from the Lightning II’s massive Pratt & Whitney F135 engine....

... [Maj Richard Rusnok] A major emphasis was supportability, from changing an engine to the mundane task of changing a tire. [until it explodes]...

...Rusnok is no stranger to short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) operations. ‘As a former Harrier pilot, the major difference for me is the level of automation and how you fly the aircraft. One of the things that [made] it harder for a Harrier pilot is that when you wanted to land on the ship you pulled the power back with your left hand. In the F-35, when you want to land you push forward on the stick. So, whether you are flying in conventional or STOVL mode, if you want to make the trees get bigger, you push forward on the stick. I have had the opportunity to take non-pilots into the simulator and they pick it up so quickly because of the simplicity of the thought process.’

Because many of the crew were not around for DT-1 or 2, the first few days of OT-1 consisted of getting used to operating the larger F-35 on the deck. Rusnok again: ’We have been working through all kinds of procedures during the first week, streamlining them. That is why you have seen us getting airplanes on the deck and getting them back up in the air two minutes later.’...

...Night quals In terms of night efficiency, each of the 10 pilots had to take off and land aboard the Wasp four times at night in order for the test to be considered a success. Pilots were not allowed to employ the aircraft’s advanced electro-optical and night vision systems but rather used signals from the Landing Signal Officer (LSO). Part of the night flying familiarization ‘was to create a core cadre of pilots that have had the opportunity to fly at night aboard ship as well as create a bunch of LSO guys that can go out and populate the fleet’, said Rusnok.

Maj Michael H. Rountree, who served as the LSO for OT-1 and is assigned to VMFAT-501 as aviation maintenance officer, explained: ‘We use the night pattern for un-aided recovery... We are not approved to use the night vision camera or distributed aperture system in the ship environment yet. We are simply using the naked eye to get us onto the ship. We fly an approach that funnels us into a good position to take over and land the jet visually.’

Rountree added that ‘the jet was easier to fly than the AV-8B Harrier II, and I was a lot less terrified to carry out a night landing in the F-35B for the first time compared to the Harrier!’...

...‘I went out there for the first time to fly at night and everything went smoothly. With the controls and interface between the pilot and aircraft so seamless and the task loading so low, this aircraft is really a joy and a pleasure to fly.’

Of the 10 pilots chosen for OT-1, not all of them were Harrier pilots. Maj Brendan Walsh serves as the VMFA-121 operations officer and is a former Hornet pilot with two cruises on aircraft carriers under his belt. He stated: ‘For me, it’s easier to get the F-35B on the deck than a Hornet on a carrier landing. I attribute that to the aircraft itself. Launching is also a little less emotional than a catapult shot. There is a little more control and you are not hanging on for dear life’....

...Lt Cdr Beth Kitchen from the Royal Navy served as the OT-1 evolutions lead: ‘The difference between DT-1 and 2, and OT-1, is that this is the first time that Marines are fully in charge of maintenance’. Kitchen added: ‘ALIS has done exceptionally well during OT-1. Another thing we wanted to make sure was that we had enough space to take an engine out and get a new one in. We did that successfully.’...

...In the end, 10 pilots were qualified for carrier take-offs and landings, and several LSOs were trained to get the aircraft on deck." [maintainers dun good also]

Source: Combat Aircraft Monthly August 2015

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 04 Jul 2015, 21:58
by XanderCrews
Thank you for the post. I love quotes from the operators. Can't get enough of them.

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 28 Jul 2015, 21:05
by spazsinbad
Lockheed F-35’s Reliability Found Wanting in Shipboard Testing
29 Jul 2015 Anthony Capaccio

"The Marine Corps’ version of Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 fighter demonstrated poor reliability in a 12-day exercise at sea, according to the U.S. military’s top testing officer.

Six F-35Bs, the most complex version of the Pentagon’s costliest weapons system, were available for flights only half of the time needed, Michael Gilmore, the Defense Department’s director of operational testing, said in a memo obtained by Bloomberg News. A Marine Corps spokesman said the readiness rate was more than 65 percent.

While the exercise on the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp resulted in useful training for Marines and Navy personnel, Gilmore wrote in the assessment dated July 22, it also documented that “shipboard reliability” and maintenance “were likely to present significant near-term challenges.”

In the assessment submitted to Frank Kendall, the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, Gilmore said “Marine maintainers had rapid, ready access to spare parts from shore” and “received significant assistance” from Lockheed and subcontractor personnel.

Even with these advantages, “aircraft reliability was poor enough that it was difficult for the Marines to keep more than two or three of the six embarked jets in a flyable status on any given day,” he wrote.

The challenges to keeping the aircraft flying “will be substantially tougher when the aircraft first deploys” on an operational mission under more trying conditions, he said....

...Major Paul Greenberg, a Marine Corps spokesman, offered the estimate of 65 percent reliability and said Gilmore’s “review and assessment was done with our full cooperation.”

“Although some the report is factually accurate, the Marine Corps does not agree with all of the conclusions and opinions,” Greenberg said in an e-mail. “In some instances, the report contains statements that do not provide proper context or qualifying information, possibly leading readers to form inaccurate conclusions.”...

...Four of those aircraft were on the Wasp. One had “multiple maintenance issues” that kept it from flying for consecutive days from May 19 through May 23, according to Gilmore’s report. The exercise also was hampered by flaws with the aircraft’s fuel systems, which experienced two major component failures, he said.

Readiness Rate
Gilmore said a readiness rate of 80 percent would be needed to support a six-aircraft unit for combat operations. Lieutenant General Jon Davis, the head of Marine Corps aviation, told reporters on Monday that the service wants to achieve that rate eventually, but doing so depends on how much funding is provided for spare parts.

The Wasp exercise demonstrated that production model aircraft could be operated and supported off an amphibious warship, he said.

Ten U.S. Marine Corps pilots received F-35B aircraft carrier qualifications and flew 11 night missions in addition to flying more than 76 hours and executing 106 sorties, Greenberg said. The sorties included 100 short takeoffs and vertical landings."

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... rd-testing

Re: 6 F-35s land on Wasp for testing

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2016, 18:38
by spazsinbad
There is a lot of material in the 2015 DOT&E report on this period of testing. I'll get around to excerpts from it eventually (there are many pages to read/digest in the full F-35 part - some 48 pages of dense acronyms). ANYway.... THERMION....
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)
Jan 2016 DOT&E

"...The Navy applied a high-temperature coating called Thermion to the flight deck spots where F-35B aircraft will land, in lieu of the traditional “non-skid” coating, to withstand the F-35B’s exhaust, which is hotter than the AV-8B. One week into flight operations, personnel noted several chips of the first of two layers of Thermion were missing along a weld seam and started monitoring the site after each landing. [Commented upon in reports with videos showing the PO having a look] No further degradation of the Thermion was noted for the rest of the detachment. Naval Sea Systems Command is analyzing the performance of the coating...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... Report.pdf (361Kb)