F-35 fuel handling

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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stobiewan

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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 13:41

Didn't the USN have to rework the catapult track or deck on a few carriers for the Hornet as they discovered it sat low with a centre line tank and occasionally the damn thing would clip something and shower fuel everywhere?

I seem to recall some of the conventional carriers never carried Hornets while they were in fleet because of this?

Puts JBD tweeks into perspective.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 15:05

KamenRiderBlade wrote:http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-run-on-warm-gas-from-a-fuel-truck-that-sa-1668120726/+megneal

The same complaint by a different whiney Anti F-35 writer.


From the Author:

You may feel just at home with this sort of nonsense and after writing well over 200 pieces on this program I am insulted when you say myself and others probably have no idea what we are talking about.


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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 18:31

Aircraft needs to be designed to the ship(s):
The Influence of Ship Configuration on the Design of the Joint Strike Fighter
26-27 Feb 2002 Mr. Eric S. Ryberg

"...Geometric Compatibility
Probably the most intuitively obvious factor to influence the design of a ship-based aircraft is geometric compatibility. Simply stated, the airplane must be of an acceptable size and shape to fit within the constrained operating spaces aboard ship....

...OTHER GEOMETRIC CONSTRAINTS...
...Safe launch and recovery operations require sufficient separation from any deck obstacle, a criterion that often dictates the shape of an aircraft and the location of its wing pylons....

...[the graphic shows the] composite envelope formed by the superposition of the deck obstructions that surround the four catapults on CVN-68 class ships...

...AIRCRAFT LAUNCH AND RECOVERY
The JSF aircraft have been sized to take full advantage of the aircraft launch and recovery equipment available on the ships of interest. For example, the CV variant is designed to withstand the tow loads imposed by the C-13 Mod 1 and Mod 2 catapults, as well as the deceleration loads of the Mk-7 Mod 3 arresting gear. If future launch and recovery systems offer substantially different loading profiles than those factored into the design, a substantial impact to launch performance (i.e., wind-over-deck requirements) and/or service life could result...."

Source: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a399988.pdf (1.1Mb)
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sferrin

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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 19:44

XanderCrews wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-run-on-warm-gas-from-a-fuel-truck-that-sa-1668120726/+megneal

The same complaint by a different whiney Anti F-35 writer.


From the Author:

You may feel just at home with this sort of nonsense and after writing well over 200 pieces on this program I am insulted when you say myself and others probably have no idea what we are talking about.


http://media.giphy.com/media/1229mlttgo8aR2/giphy.gif


That place is a vast echo chamber of stupid. Like Sol's blog but the author managed to get hooked up with a conglomerate that caters to liberal kids. Gets lots of eyeballs, and that's really it's only purpose. Would not recommend frequenting unless you have IQ points to lose.
"There I was. . ."
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KamenRiderBlade

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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 20:28

sferrin wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-run-on-warm-gas-from-a-fuel-truck-that-sa-1668120726/+megneal

The same complaint by a different whiney Anti F-35 writer.


From the Author:

You may feel just at home with this sort of nonsense and after writing well over 200 pieces on this program I am insulted when you say myself and others probably have no idea what we are talking about.


http://media.giphy.com/media/1229mlttgo8aR2/giphy.gif


That place is a vast echo chamber of stupid. Like Sol's blog but the author managed to get hooked up with a conglomerate that caters to liberal kids. Gets lots of eyeballs, and that's really it's only purpose. Would not recommend frequenting unless you have IQ points to lose.


The place is only good for tech / gadget news.

It's not a good place for military news, despite them trying to branch out.

They really should stick to what they are good with, but idiots like Tyler Rogoway has managed to bamboozle the masses with his BS.
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sferrin

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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 21:48

The Harrier needs 150 gallons of water onboard just to hover. Funny how these idiots seem to not know this. :doh:
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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 00:18

sferrin wrote:The Harrier needs 150 gallons of water onboard just to hover. Funny how these idiots seem to not know this. :doh:


Actualy it is 50 Imperial gallons, and it only needs the water to hover at higher gross weights and higher OATs.
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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 00:23

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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 01:07

gallons/lbs/imperial gallons - wot fun - I can see one website that claims 150 gals erroneously (must be heavy water) - go here:

http://www.technologystudent.com/culture1/harr1.htm

However I would go for the 50 impgal (500lbs/227kg) of distilled water as quoted earlier by 'qs' and it gives around 90 seconds of use:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Pegasus
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eskodas

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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 01:28

Here it shows in a nice graphic just how the fuel gets too hot in the ground idling phase.

http://i.imgur.com/quXJIUS.png

from here http://sdsi.asu.edu/wp-content/uploads/ ... hermal.pdf
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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 03:49

The fuel trucks used to be yellow up till the early 80's, then everything got painted OD green. Anyone work F-15's at Luke or Nellis in the late 70's and early 80's when they when only their birds were having fuel pump problems. Turned out the problem was the jets after start up would be on the ground from 30-45 minutes because of taxi and end of runway (EOR) arm checks. But I guess it's better then the F-4 which would dump fuel all over the ramp while you were gassing them up. Anyone ever make the mistake of packing a F-4 drag chute while putting gas in at the same time? NO I never got a face full of JP-4, but saw a transit crew chief who did. :doh:
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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 07:52

You will not believe the comments going around on this story:
https://news.yahoo.com/usaf-paint-truck ... -container

Now on Facebook, F-35 haters and supporters are again at war. Naturally we are outnumbered
But we have the facts, and before long they resort to their age old, name calling, your mother's fat theatrics. That the usual sign that they lost.

Now people are blowing this out of proportion, the solution of having trucks painted White and putting them on parking shades isn't rocket science, it won't cost billions.

Now in exchange, you have a 5th generation aircraft with a state of the art thermal management system that can afford to carry all the advanced avionics it needs and be almost invisible to Infrared sensors as well
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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 08:26

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102253195

Major Matt Hasson of Luke AFB public affairs wrote:
This is not an F-35 issue; there are no special restrictions on the F-35 related to fuel temperature. The F-35 uses the same fuel as other military aircraft. It can fly under the same temperature conditions as any other advanced military aircraft,

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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 08:59

WAIT - WOT? From above story - last paragraph before editor note:
"...It's anticipated that eventually 200 of the aircraft will be in operation in eight countries."
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Unread post10 Dec 2014, 09:45

The F/A-18 has a number of fuel temperature limits; one that comes to mind is if you are on the ground, have less than 1,000 pounds of fuel, and external temperatures exceed 30C, the Hornet will fairly quickly throw a Airframe Mounted Accessory Drive warning light, which the listed procedure is to shut down the engine involved.

If you are in the air with less than 4,000 pounds fuel remaining at low altitude, the pilot is required to monitor fuel temperatures as again, the Airframe Mounted Accessory Drive could overheat. In fact, if the fuel temperature exceeds 75C, the NATOPS says you need to land immediately.

Also, in hot weather conditions, the NATOPS says one needs to keep all non-essential electronics shut down while on the ground unless you are just about to take off.

The F-16's flight manual also indicates that there are engine fuel temperature limits; if the hot fuel warning light goes off, you are limited to 10,000ft maximum altitude and you need to increase fuel consumption to 4000pph, until you can land, which you are required to do so immediately.
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