F-35 fuel handling

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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maus92

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Unread post06 Dec 2014, 17:46

Hmmm, with the Marines pushing for M-FARPS, maintaining the proper fuel temp might be interesting, particularly in the sandbox, and in other hot areas...

Luke AFB changes refueling truck color, mitigates F-35 shutdowns
By Staff Sgt. Luther Mitchell Jr., 56th Fighter Wing Public Affairs / Published December 06, 2014

"LUKE AIR FORCE BASE, Ariz. (AFNS) -- The 56th Logistics Readiness Squadron recently added a new fuel truck to its fleet designed to improve mission effectiveness and safety on the flightline.

However, it’s not really a new fuel truck, but an old fuel truck with its tank painted white.

What LRS Airmen once referred to as "Big Green," the “new” truck with a white fuel tank has been a little difficult for some to get used to; however, the change has a better purpose then just being aesthetically pleasing.

"We painted the refuelers white to reduce the temperature of fuel being delivered to the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter," said Senior Airman Jacob Hartman, a 56th LRS fuels distribution operator. "The F-35 has a fuel temperature threshold and may not function properly if the fuel temperature is too high, so after collaborating with other bases and receiving waiver approval from (the Air Education Training Command), we painted the tanks white."

With the change, the 56th LRS hopes for no delay in aircraft take-offs, all while maintaining mission sorties and ensuring pilots meet training requirements.

"It ensures the F-35 is able to meet its sortie requirements," said Chief Master Sgt. Ralph Resch, the 56th LRS fuels manager. "We are taking proactive measures to mitigate any possible aircraft shutdowns due to high fuel temperatures in the future."

The squadron adopted the idea after it was first implemented at Edwards Air Force Base, California.

In the summer months at Luke AFB, temperatures can reach beyond 110 degrees. Painting the tanks white now will help prevent fuel stored in the tanks from over-heating.

"This is the short-term goal to cool the fuel for the F-35; however, the long-term fix is to have parking shades for the refuelers," Resch said...."

Source: http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/t ... downs.aspx


Shelters and white painted trucks - not something you really want in forwards areas.
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mk82

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Unread post06 Dec 2014, 17:59

maus92 wrote:Hmmm, with the Marines pushing for M-FARPS, maintaining the proper fuel temp might be interesting, particularly in the sandbox, and in other hot areas...

Luke AFB changes refueling truck color, mitigates F-35 shutdowns
By Staff Sgt. Luther Mitchell Jr., 56th Fighter Wing Public Affairs / Published December 06, 2014


"LUKE AIR FORCE BASE, Ariz. (AFNS) -- The 56th Logistics Readiness Squadron recently added a new fuel truck to its fleet designed to improve mission effectiveness and safety on the flightline.

However, it’s not really a new fuel truck, but an old fuel truck with its tank painted white.

What LRS Airmen once referred to as "Big Green," the “new” truck with a white fuel tank has been a little difficult for some to get used to; however, the change has a better purpose then just being aesthetically pleasing.

"We painted the refuelers white to reduce the temperature of fuel being delivered to the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter," said Senior Airman Jacob Hartman, a 56th LRS fuels distribution operator. "The F-35 has a fuel temperature threshold and may not function properly if the fuel temperature is too high, so after collaborating with other bases and receiving waiver approval from (the Air Education Training Command), we painted the tanks white."

With the change, the 56th LRS hopes for no delay in aircraft take-offs, all while maintaining mission sorties and ensuring pilots meet training requirements.

"It ensures the F-35 is able to meet its sortie requirements," said Chief Master Sgt. Ralph Resch, the 56th LRS fuels manager. "We are taking proactive measures to mitigate any possible aircraft shutdowns due to high fuel temperatures in the future."

The squadron adopted the idea after it was first implemented at Edwards Air Force Base, California.

In the summer months at Luke AFB, temperatures can reach beyond 110 degrees. Painting the tanks white now will help prevent fuel stored in the tanks from over-heating.

"This is the short-term goal to cool the fuel for the F-35; however, the long-term fix is to have parking shades for the refuelers," Resch said...."

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/t ... downs.aspx

Shelters and white painted trucks - not something you really want in forwards areas.


I am quite sure that the Marines already have their own solution. The Harrier's Pegasus engine would also have a threshold on the temperature of its fuel and Harrier's have operated from FARPs in hot weather.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post06 Dec 2014, 19:45

Slow news day Maus?
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Dec 2014, 21:40

He's going to go apeshit when he discovers that the jet blast deflectors need to be upgraded to handle the F135 in full afterburner. (Of course he'll conveniently forget they had to do the same thing with the TF30s of the F-14.)
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Unread post06 Dec 2014, 22:25

The Super Hornet and F-35C will only be at 125% - half afterburner - at the JBD. Once down the catapult automatically the FULL A/B will light off. This has been explained - perhaps you meant that already? We have seen the F-35C half A/Being down the cat day/night already aboard NIMITZ. Did anyone read about their JBDs being upgraded? Perhaps there is a long term project to upgrade the JBDs for longer life?
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smsgtmac

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Unread post06 Dec 2014, 23:09

maus92 wrote:Hmmm, with the Marines pushing for M-FARPS, maintaining the proper fuel temp might be interesting, particularly in the sandbox, and in other hot areas...

...Shelters and white painted trucks - not something you really want in forwards areas.


Oh noes! An apparently intractable problem! What oh what ever shall we do?

Other than pick up a GSA catalog I mean.
vmsandmtvr-1_0.jpg


Hmmm. What else?
Perhaps somebody could just remember to bring the netting?:
fmtv_m1078_03_700.jpg

Or maybe just ask the neighbors to loan them a little floor space?
DRASH_Maintenance_Facility_in_Iraq.jpg

House Trolls gotta troll, but c'mon Maus--at least TRY to put some thought into it.
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maus92

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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 01:40

Just one more thing to carry to those 24-48hr M-FARPS.
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quicksilver

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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 01:42

Maus knows better. He also knows that Hornet and SH have the same issues (ie its not an issue except in the .1 percentile conditions).

Nice try, but enough with the knuckle balls. Try something faster...
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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 04:38

maus92 wrote:Just one more thing to carry to those 24-48hr M-FARPS.

Except this is something that can be easily carried and planned for.. you think the logisticians are idiots? Realistically, this won't take up too much space or be too heavy for any transport aircraft to have it quickly loaded in.

Besides, these shelters make it much more easier to be crawling around underneath the trucks when they need maintenance. Out of the hot sun or pouring rain makes a mechanics' life easier.
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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 05:20

maus92 wrote:Just one more thing to carry to those 24-48hr M-FARPS.


Marines never used to have bring tents anywhere!
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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 16:24

been using them from day one at PAX, Chilled fuel etc....
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sferrin

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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 18:21

spazsinbad wrote:The Super Hornet and F-35C will only be at 125% - half afterburner - at the JBD. Once down the catapult automatically the FULL A/B will light off. This has been explained - perhaps you meant that already? We have seen the F-35C half A/Being down the cat day/night already aboard NIMITZ. Did anyone read about their JBDs being upgraded? Perhaps there is a long term project to upgrade the JBDs for longer life?


From a PDF that appeared recently:

"No modifications were required to the
flight deck, not even the Jet Blast Deflectors
(JBDs): hydraulic-controlled panels designed
to divert hot aircraft exhaust during launches.
The panels are raised in preparation for takeoff,
protecting the flight deck and aircraft
behind from the hot aircraft exhaust.
Modification of the JBDs will be required for
subsequent DT evolutions, when afterburner
will be required to launch aircraft with heavier
all-up weights than those used during DT
I.
Any changes implemented will alter the
cooling path of the F-35’s exhaust plume,
which interacts with the carrier’s decking
differently from that of the twin-engined
members of the Hornet family."

Thing is they've been modified on several occasions in the past to accommodate various aircraft so this is nothing out of the ordinary.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Dec 2014, 20:37

Thanks. I recall reading that but could not be bothered to go find it - the thread is about fuel after all. And as mentioned in my post:
"...Perhaps there is a long term project to upgrade the JBDs for longer life?"
IF I had bothered to find the quote you mention or a similar one then I would not have used the 'perhaps'. I do not like to state things as fact without a reference to said facts. So now I'll look for references to the JBD upgrading whilst recalling that when "JBDs at Lakehurst testing finished" years ago - at that time - it was said that there were no big things to fix (that would be early on in the 'Lakehurst thread). Here is the night slo mo A/B light off video.

This link takes one to a long post with the 'JBDs' parts (word) highlighted and which only part was excerpted otherwise:
...No modifications were required to the flight deck, not even the Jet Blast Deflectors (JBDs): hydraulic-controlled panels designed to divert hot aircraft exhaust during launches. The panels are raised in preparation for takeoff, protecting the flight deck and aircraft behind from the hot aircraft exhaust. Modification of the JBDs will be required for subsequent DT evolutions, when afterburner will be required to launch aircraft with heavier all-up weights than those used during DT I. Any changes implemented will alter the cooling path of the F-35’s exhaust plume, which interacts with the carrier’s decking differently from that of the twin-engined members of the Hornet family...."

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=26634&p=282114&hilit=JBDs#p282114

& here is the long post about first JBD (on land) testing: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200694&hilit=JBDs#p200694

& anotherie: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15767&p=200137&hilit=JBDs#p200137

A useful old quote from Manazir June 2010 - admittedly before other facts were known from testing: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12631&p=179606&hilit=JBDs#p179606
"...“Aboard the aircraft carrier, the F-35C exhaust impingement on the jet blast deflector has also been studied,” he said. “The aircraft obviously has a common engine, the F135, and so we took an airplane out at Eglin and did tests against just a flat plate. We’ve taken the data off of that and we’ve delivered it to Lakehurst.

“Lakehurst is going to take fleet representative JBDs [jet blast deflectors] and the cooling structure that’s associated with that,” he continued. “They’ll install it at Lakehurst, and we’re going to do tests against that jet blast deflector and those units will be able to be installed on a ship at a future date.”

Manazir said the problem is not the heat pattern on the JBD, but the fact that the F-35 and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornets launch less than a minute apart and place a heat load on different places on the JBD.

“It means we have to have a slightly different cooling structure, which probably will involve extra piping in the JBD, but not that much of a change,” he said...."

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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 05:32

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f- ... 6/+megneal

The same complaint by a different whiney Anti F-35 writer.
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Unread post09 Dec 2014, 05:51

"...Luke AFB is not the first base to run into this issue, with Edwards AFB discovering the problem and initiating the fuel truck repaint solution some time ago. The USAF has some hope that the reflective paint process can be applied to a similar green color as the standard issue refueling trucks used by the USAF. A test will soon occur with a white truck and a green truck, with both being painted with a special solar reflective coating, to see if the green truck plus the reflective coating will keep the F-35's life-force cool enough under the sun for the jet not to have to shut down immediately after start-up due to heating issues...."


Would having a 'fuel refrigerator' powered by the same fuel from the hot truck help? :devil: I see no white [paint] here?

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... eax4fl.jpg
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Last edited by spazsinbad on 09 Dec 2014, 18:06, edited 2 times in total.
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