Export Version

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

uclass

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 962
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2013, 16:05

Unread post26 Jun 2014, 15:58

Okay, sorry about this but imbeciles keep telling me that the export versions are downgraded. To my knowledge the only differences on export versions will be the ones requested on the F-35I by Israel. True or false?
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24862
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post26 Jun 2014, 16:12

This idea is a dead skunkdog in the middle of the road - and it stinks to high heaven (apologies to Loudon Wainwright III) - and has been even debunked by DiD which is not friendly to the F-35 at all. I'll look for the link on this forum (there are several to the same silly story herein).

There are links on this forum aplenty if youse search on 'Heinz' (not the 57 variety):

SWP: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=23494&p=249302&hilit=Heinz#p249302
&
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=16084&p=243767&hilit=Heinz#p243767
&
now in the wayback machine: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=15741&p=199189&hilit=Heinz#p199189
&
Then there is a lot of blather and then:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14460&p=181635&hilit=Heinz#p181635

ADDITION: Missed the part about F-35i for Israel. Similarly on this very forum there is a lot of information about how the Israelis will modify their F-35s with permission of all concerned with a black box that will allow them to install their own doodads as required. This extra stuff may be offered to other F-35 users in due course I guess. Also the Israelis may develop fuel tanks external/conformal but no other airframe mods allowed AFAIK. I'll guess that if conformal tanks developed then permission will have to be sought to use them or how/when etc. Some links:

Tanks: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=24203&p=254484&hilit=Eshel#p254484
&
Extras: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20158&p=229326&hilit=Eshel#p229326
_______________
F-35I To Give Israel An Edge
17 Jun 2013 Noam Eshel

"...Topolansky notes that among the requirements Israel insisted upon throughout the procurement negotiations was the adaptation of the baseline F-35A, including all its systems, to the IAF operational environment. “Our F-35I will be equipped with our specific networks, armament and electronic warfare, among them the Spice autonomous EO-guided weapon. It will also carry the AIM-9X2 air-to-air missile, which will become the first platform in the IAF to employ this advanced air-to-air missile. We also plan to continue and pursue the development of future air-to-air missiles; we still evaluate the cost/performance tradeoff between a common air-to-air and air-to-ground missile and a dedicated AAM design,” Topolansky explains...."

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 588854.xml

Israel, U.S. Agree To $450 Million In F-35 EW Work
06 Aug 2012 Eshel David, David Fulghum

"A $450 million agreement between Israel and Lockheed Martin to allow Israel's own electronic warfare (EW) equipment on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter..."

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article/Pri ... 482027.xml

Israel To Buy F-35s With Cockpit Mods
27 Aug 2010 Alon Ben-David

"Israel is pressing ahead with its purchase of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, after securing U.S. approval to install Israeli munitions on the aircraft and a pledge to adjust the electronic warfare suite to emerging Middle East threats.

“The aircraft will be designated F-35I, as there will be unique Israeli features installed in them,” a senior Israel air force official tells Aviation Week.

Israel’s initial batch will be almost identical to the international JSF offered to other countries, with one difference: The F-35s manufactured for Israel will include several cockpit interfaces to accommodate the air force’s command, control, communications, computer and intelligence systems. The F-35 main computer will enable a plug-and-play feature for Israeli equipment.

The U.S. also is not standing in the way of an Israeli requirement to install a 600-gal. detachable fuel tank to increase the F-35’s range...."

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... 249396.xml
Last edited by spazsinbad on 26 Jun 2014, 17:48, edited 4 times in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

zerion

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 689
  • Joined: 25 Jan 2014, 01:47
  • Location: Everywhere like such as...

Unread post26 Jun 2014, 17:13

Pentagon F-35 chief blasts Boeing comments
Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:15pm EDT - By Andrea Shalal-Esa
  • General calls Boeing remarks inappropriate
  • Denies Washington offering partners "dumbed down" F-35
The head of the Pentagon's F-35 fighter program blasted on Tuesday what he called Boeing Co's (BA.N) inappropriate marketing of a new F-15 fighter model with radar-evading capabilities that it is marketing as an alternative to the Lockheed Martin Corp-built F-35.

[...]

More: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/06/16/airshow-lockheed-fighter-idINN1629060420090616?rpc=44&sp=true
Offline

arcturus

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post26 Jun 2014, 17:33

The downgraded export version meme is one that has gone the distance, gaining traction in the strangest corners. Critics often point towards Soviet monkey model exports, which were downgraded, as some type of proof. :doh:

This meme has been debunked many times....
Offline

trpilot6

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 06 Jan 2013, 07:04

Unread post02 Jul 2014, 23:13

I think there is good reason for the skepticism about the export models. Doesnt the US have laws against what level of stealth is exportable? So when u have a man like Gen. Hostage say that the F-35 will be superior in its stealth capabilities to even the F-22 (which was non exportable), combined with the fact that the US restricts access to the software codes for the F-35, isnt it possible there very well could be a reduction in capabilities for F-35s supplied to some of our partner nations? Maybe not all, but some? Id hate to think the the US has spent over 300 Billion dollars and 20 years of research on this AC and a by just contributiong 195 million and doing none of the work, Turkey can have the EXACT same aircraft. IDK, thats just me. I read an article recently where one of the senior F-35 program directors was taking questions, I belive in Australia, when he was asked flat out if there were any reduction in capabilites in the export versions of the F-35. He wouldnt for the life of him give a straight yes or no answer. All he would say is that the F-35 was being built to satisfy the needs of each of the partner countries. If anyone knows the article Im talking about can u please post a link...I cant seem to find it.
Offline
User avatar

smsgtmac

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 867
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2013, 04:22
  • Location: Texas

Unread post03 Jul 2014, 03:31

trpilot6 wrote:I think there is good reason for the skepticism about the export models. Doesnt the US have laws against what level of stealth is exportable?

No.
Since some may find that an unreasonably short answer, the longer version is: No, the US has laws that CONTROL the export of LO technology and knowledge.
So when u have a man like Gen. Hostage say that the F-35 will be superior in its stealth capabilities to even the F-22 (which was non exportable), combined with the fact that the US restricts access to the software codes for the F-35, isnt it possible there very well could be a reduction in capabilities for F-35s supplied to some of our partner nations? Maybe not all, but some?

No... aaaaand... No.
Bonus link: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... er-206979/
Id hate to think the the US has spent over 300 Billion dollars and 20 years of research on this AC and a by just contributiong 195 million and doing none of the work, Turkey can have the EXACT same aircraft. IDK, thats just me.

First, most of the big scary 'over $300B' figure covers all costs to buy and field ALL the US aircraft. We've bought about 100 of about 3000 so far. The program of record covering those $ is 13 years old, not 20.
Now, you better sit down: https://www.f35.com/news/category/turkey
I read an article recently where one of the senior F-35 program directors was taking questions, I belive in Australia, when he was asked flat out if there were any reduction in capabilites in the export versions of the F-35. He wouldnt for the life of him give a straight yes or no answer. All he would say is that the F-35 was being built to satisfy the needs of each of the partner countries. If anyone knows the article Im talking about can u please post a link...I cant seem to find it.

Find the article and someone will cheerfully tell you where you went wrong. It will probably be related to expecting a yes and no answer to a 'it depends' question; as in "it depends on what the Customer wants".

Arcturus locutus est, causa finita est.
--The ultimate weapon is the mind of man.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 24862
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post03 Jul 2014, 03:56

I overhead the owl and the pussycat when I was a kid saying the moon was made of green cheese. I was saddened to learn that the US astronauts could not confirm that because they didn't really go to the moon but maybe this is what you did not hear/see/learn 'trpilot6'?
F-35 Partners Get Equal Stealth:
24 Jun 2011 Le Bourget, France——John A. Tirpak

“International partners on the F-35 will enjoy a stealth capability on the fighter equal to that of the US versions, according to F-35 program office officials. Maj. Gen. C.D. Moore, deputy director of the F-35 program office, gave a non-committal answer during a press conference here this week at the Paris Air Show when a reporter asked about the level of stealth available to foreign users.

International reporters have long hinted that the United States would hold back some capability. However in a subsequent statement issued by the F-35 program office, officials said "the quick answer to the statement regarding partners being less stealthy than the US is 'no.' (Partners will have same capability). " The program officials noted that the stealth aspects of some partner versions will vary slightly due to their inclusion of some unique gear, such as drag chutes, but it is "a program objective to not impact [low-observable] characteristics. It is our intent to produce a common solution to ensure interoperability for coalition operations as well as production affordability.”

Source: http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArch ... ealth.aspx
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

arcturus

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post03 Jul 2014, 11:49

smsgtmac wrote:Arcturus locutus est, causa finita est.



If only things were as simple in my household.....
Offline

Roscoe

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1334
  • Joined: 29 Jun 2004, 20:14
  • Location: Las Vegas

Unread post06 Jul 2014, 06:56

trpilot6 wrote:I think there is good reason for the skepticism about the export models. Doesnt the US have laws against what level of stealth is exportable? So when u have a man like Gen. Hostage say that the F-35 will be superior in its stealth capabilities to even the F-22 (which was non exportable), combined with the fact that the US restricts access to the software codes for the F-35, isnt it possible there very well could be a reduction in capabilities for F-35s supplied to some of our partner nations? Maybe not all, but some? Id hate to think the the US has spent over 300 Billion dollars and 20 years of research on this AC and a by just contributiong 195 million and doing none of the work, Turkey can have the EXACT same aircraft. IDK, thats just me. I read an article recently where one of the senior F-35 program directors was taking questions, I belive in Australia, when he was asked flat out if there were any reduction in capabilites in the export versions of the F-35. He wouldnt for the life of him give a straight yes or no answer. All he would say is that the F-35 was being built to satisfy the needs of each of the partner countries. If anyone knows the article Im talking about can u please post a link...I cant seem to find it.

My last active duty assignment was in the Secretary of the Air Force (International Affairs), Weapons Division. I sat right next to the guy who was the export expert on the JSF (my personal portfolio was UAVs, Recce systems, surveillance radars…). The nation follows the US Munitions List (USML), but those are somewhat vague. We researched and recommended to the CSAF what levels of capability should be should to various companies within the bounds of the USML (and NO was often used). We also worked with the countries to help define what they really needed. Vast majority of those recommendations were signed and stamped "SECRET" so don't ask… :)
Roscoe
F-16 Program Manager
USAF Test Pilot School 92A

"It's time to get medieval, I'm goin' in for guns" - Dos Gringos

Return to General F-35 Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: sprstdlyscottsmn and 21 guests