F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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steve2267

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 16:59

I was impressed by the buffeting when Dojo pulled high alpha. The plane really talks to the pilot. I like it.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 02:21

DOJO DRIFT F-35 Demonstration Inside The Cockpit Miami Beach :crazypilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDsf0SPsG_w

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 18:14

How The F-35 Demo Team Is Changing Minds About the Joint Strike Fighter Program.

For nearly a decade the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program was fighting a dogfight it had to win against ill-informed public opinion of the Joint Strike Fighter program. Along with rightful and unbiased criticism from trusted and reputable sources (including those who regularly question the usual PR support and media hype that surrounds every F-35 achievement) we have observed analysts with little technical knowledge of the F-35 program’s goals, scope or capabilities railing against its costs and effectiveness, seizing every setback in the ambitious program to pile on the rising voice of armchair critics, defense “reporters” and social media pundits. But two men on the Air Force’s new F-35 Demo Team, Senior Airman Alexander Cook and Staff Sgt. Jensen Stidham, are shifting the public opinion about the F-35A Lighting II. --

https://theaviationist.com/2019/06/03/h ... r-program/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 18:33

I can give my opinion about the LIGHTING II - for Fsake get an appallingSpeiler - change LIGHTING II into LIGHTNING II!

https://i2.wp.com/theaviationist.com/wp ... deo_25.jpg
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sferrin

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:04

spazsinbad wrote:I can give my opinion about the LIGHTING II - for Fsake get an appallingSpeiler - change LIGHTING II into LIGHTNING II!

https://i2.wp.com/theaviationist.com/wp ... deo_25.jpg


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sferrin

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:06

steve2267 wrote:I was impressed by the buffeting when Dojo pulled high alpha. The plane really talks to the pilot. I like it.


Impressed in what way? I'd think the less buffeting the better.
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zerion

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:38

sferrin wrote:Impressed in what way? I'd think the less buffeting the better.

Some pilots have said they like it as feedback.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:39

sferrin wrote:Impressed in what way? I'd think the less buffeting the better.

Tell that to the Israeli pilots who transitioned from the Mirage to the F-16. They did not like the lack of feedback about where they were in the envelope. A pilot wants enough buffet to know where they are in the envelope, just not so much that they cannot see/use the instruments in the cockpit.
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sferrin

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:42

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
sferrin wrote:Impressed in what way? I'd think the less buffeting the better.

Tell that to the Israeli pilots who transitioned from the Mirage to the F-16. They did not like the lack of feedback about where they were in the envelope. A pilot wants enough buffet to know where they are in the envelope, just not so much that they cannot see/use the instruments in the cockpit.


I believe you. Just trying to understand why it's a plus rather than a minus. Sounds like the thinking here is that it's better to have buffet than to go from glass smooth to departed flight with no warning.
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zerion

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:49

A more positive side to buffeting however is that it acts as feedback to the pilot. In modern fighters computers decide which control surfaces are to be moved and how much – «fly-by-wire». That means the pilot misses out on important feedback through the rudder pedals and control stick. How much I move them is not directly linked to what is actually happening with the control surfaces. The F/A-18, for example, moves the ailerons gradually in the opposite direction during heavy maneuvering, without me as a pilot really noticing. The aircraft is however still doing what I am asking it to do. Most Norwegian F-16s have little or no buffeting when maneuvering. That means that in the F-16 I have to use the instruments to get an impression of just much lift I am really demanding from the aircraft. I might be flying fast or slow – maybe dangerous slow – and the only hint I get comes from the gauges. In the F-35 I can physically feel whether I am operating the aircraft in its «good-zone» when maneuvering, or whether I am demanding too much from it and losing energy. I can also physically feel whether I am flying too fast or, worse, if I am flying dangerously slow in the landing pattern.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 19:53

'zerion' quote from here - maybe: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... sions.html ORIGINAL is elsewhere....

Here: https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampf ... ed-so-far/ THEN EARLIER:...

ORIGINAL 20 Nov 2015: https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/kampf ... orste-uka/ [engrish scroll down]

No worries - it is always interesting to have an URL for a quote. Author name and date always helps as well - for SEARCH.

Norges første F-35-flyger/Norway's first F-35-pilot (subtitled) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb2WvdfiXhE

Last edited by spazsinbad on 03 Jun 2019, 20:07, edited 3 times in total.
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zerion

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 20:00

Thanks Spaz, the only link I had was to the Norwegian version. :|
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castlebravo

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 20:44

I love how they have the camera pointing back over the wing so we get to watch how the control surfaces move.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 22:46

sferrin wrote:Impressed in what way? I'd think the less buffeting the better.


Impressed by the feedback it gives the pilot. I have not heard or read of Dojo or others complaining about the buffeting. Rather, it seems to talk to the pilot and let him know how close he is getting to the edge, as Dolbe alludes.

I suspect the buffet is due to asymmetric flow separation off the chines. I also suspect that stealth OML requirements precluded the introduction or inclusion of aerodynamic devices to control said separation, e.g. perhaps something like vortex-lattice generators.

The more I learn about the aircraft, the more I appreciate: from the aerodynamic shape, to the VLO shaping, to its compact size for 9+ tons of internal fuel and 2.5+ tons of weapons, to avionics, to EW suite, to flight controls. Going back to the twin tail F-16 configuration John Will once mentioned... in many respects, I regard the F-35 as the ultimate evolution of the F-16, even though they are entirely different aircraft. I see a lot of Viper DNA in the Lightning.

I forgot the motor.... oh what a motor. And that lift fan system / dual-cycle developed by Dr. Bevilaqua. Genius.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 23:35

Why not install a stall horn on the F-35 ? Would it be too distracting or not effective enough compared to buffeting ? There may also be some advantage to let the fly-by-wire suppress buffeting for extending the life of the wings, but better get the opinion of a structures engineer.
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