F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 15:03

viper12 wrote:
krieger22 wrote:https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006137557.html?share=9c46e4bac9f311a827ab521bd4a3b646

USAF F-35s have arrived in Finland for the Turku Air Show


The spec sheets don't look quite right ; take a look at the F-35A for example. It reads :

"Polttoaineen kulutus (kg/h) 11 089
Kulutus jälkipoltolla (kg/s) 10,2"

So if I understood it correctly, the first line is the fuel consumption (cruise or typical ?) and the second one is the fuel consumption in afterburner. The first line is where it's problematic ; it would imply the F-35A burns all its internal fuel in less than one hour, which is in contradiction with the F-35A's estimated combat radius of 584 nm.

Fuel consumption is the most variable thing of all. Those numbers are both likely sea level static numbers for full mil and full blower. 24,400pph Mil and 80,000pph max. Remember the previous statement that at max end it only burns 4,600pph.
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viper12

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 18:11

Indeed, that's what I'm thinking too.
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wrightwing

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Unread post12 Jun 2019, 22:42

viper12 wrote:
krieger22 wrote:https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006137557.html?share=9c46e4bac9f311a827ab521bd4a3b646

USAF F-35s have arrived in Finland for the Turku Air Show


The spec sheets don't look quite right ; take a look at the F-35A for example. It reads :

"Polttoaineen kulutus (kg/h) 11 089
Kulutus jälkipoltolla (kg/s) 10,2"

So if I understood it correctly, the first line is the fuel consumption (cruise or typical ?) and the second one is the fuel consumption in afterburner. The first line is where it's problematic ; it would imply the F-35A burns all its internal fuel in less than one hour, which is in contradiction with the F-35A's estimated combat radius of 584 nm.

The demonstrated combat radius is considerably more than 584nm. The vanilla numbers are 670nm for A2G, and 760nm for A2A.
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magitsu

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Unread post13 Jun 2019, 00:59

The spec sheets are recycled from a few month old article.
At the time they were ridiculed by the local avgeek community as highly misleading, especially the "superior range of Gripen".

Unfortunately they decided to run them again with this article.
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sferrin

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Unread post14 Jun 2019, 13:40

ricnunes wrote:Well, in the end isn't Chengdu and Shenyang basically the same thing: "Companies" that belong to the same owner - The Chinese government? :wink:

Anyway, I can see potential for this FC-31:
- A very big threat to any 4th and 4.5th gen fighter aircraft.
- A cheaper aircraft than the J-20 and Su-57 which would give it a much bigger export potential and the potential of being manufactured in bigger numbers which thus would make it an even bigger threat.


Intl Interest in China's FC-31 Stealth Fighter Jet Grows

"China's made-for-export FC-31 warplane is making a big impression, as reports say international buyers are thinking of buying the stealth fighter jet, with Chinese military experts recommending on Tuesday that China try to seize these opportunities.

The FC-31 boasts very similar capabilities to the US' F-35 fighter jets, making it a viable option for weapons buyers, experts said.

Turkey is considering purchasing China's FC-31 and Russia's Su-57 to replace the US' F-35 stealth fighter jet, as Turkey seems determined to procure the Russian-made S-400 air defense system, Weihutang, a military column affiliated with China Central Television, reported on Monday, citing Turkish media.

The report came after the US threatened Turkey, saying it will not deliver the 100 F-35As to Turkey as planned if Turkey accepts delivery of the Russian air defense system, US media outlet Defense News reported on Friday.

Potential international buyers' attention on the FC-31 is a good thing, and China should push for such opportunities to export the warplane, Xu Guangyu, a senior consultant at the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, told the Global Times on Tuesday."

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ghter.html
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citanon

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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 18:51

Tonkatsu16 uses his own airshow footage to compare maneuverability of a F-35A vs a clean f-16. Then uses F-18 footage at the end to demonstrate the effect of drag from combat loads on 4th gen fighters.

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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 19:19

Interesting video.

Seems the F-35 is indeed very close to a "clean" F-16. I doubt we've seen everything the F-35 can do however. The new(er) flight control software alone could make a big difference..
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 19:27

How much fuel is F-35A carrying in the demo? Higher weight can really affect minimum radius turn.
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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 20:25

disconnectedradical wrote:How much fuel is F-35A carrying in the demo? Higher weight can really affect minimum radius turn.

Dojo said full fuel for show
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mikemag

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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 21:21

I’d love to see an F-35 min radius turn with something more like 25% fuel. If Dojo takes off with fuel full, how much is left by the end of the show? Still >50% I would think, right?
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quicksilver

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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 22:50

mixelflick wrote:Interesting video.

Seems the F-35 is indeed very close to a "clean" F-16. I doubt we've seen everything the F-35 can do however. The new(er) flight control software alone could make a big difference..


You’ve seen everything it can do in close proximity to the ground and people.

What else might you expect it do? Dramatic but tactically meaningless post-stall flips? What would that prove?
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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 23:13

quicksilver wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Interesting video.

Seems the F-35 is indeed very close to a "clean" F-16. I doubt we've seen everything the F-35 can do however. The new(er) flight control software alone could make a big difference..


You’ve seen everything it can do in close proximity to the ground and people.

What else might you expect it do? Dramatic but tactically meaningless post-stall flips? What would that prove?


A very fair point. But if the topic is airshows, not everything needs to be tactically meaningful in order to be enjoyed.
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f-16adf

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Unread post15 Jun 2019, 23:50

Apparently "Tonkats" is unware of the early Soloturk and GD company demo vids of it (Viper) completing 360s in 15 seconds or under.



Did he also check each METAR and figure out field DA? I'm willing to bet, ...no-
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Unread post16 Jun 2019, 07:19

It's fanboys and airshows. It is what it is f-16adf, it's always been that way. You wouldn't take anything as a serious spec. The variabilities are too numerous to count.
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charlielima223

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Unread post16 Jun 2019, 09:30

I can't remember if I heard/read it somewhere here on the interwebs or at an airshow. Something along the lines of, what people see at airshows is simply a byproduct of the the aircraft's maneuvering capabilities.
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