F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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garrya

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 02:36

look like ballet dancing
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sferrin

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Unread post02 Apr 2019, 23:10



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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 13:22

Wow, incredible display. Especially the turn at 14:20 or so, then straight into the vertical?! That's POWER..

The F-35's looks are really growing on me, right down to the futuristic way the canopy closes. It will never be the sleekest machine, but from certain angles it looks downright nasty (in a good way). Only from directly behind is it lacking IMO, would have liked to see a thrust vectoring nozzle. But that's just personal preference, and I understand why it doesn't have one.

Then again, a fixed/round nozzle makes its thrust vectoring like maneuvers that much more impressive. I'm not sure how much is attributed to the flight control software and how much to the physical design, perhaps a bit of both. In any case, LM engineers did an incredible job with this one. Given its mission flexibility and compromises, I'd say LM did a better job with it than even the Raptor.

It's just that good all around...
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castlebravo

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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 17:22

mixelflick wrote:Wow, incredible display. Especially the turn at 14:20 or so, then straight into the vertical?! That's POWER..

The F-35's looks are really growing on me, right down to the futuristic way the canopy closes. It will never be the sleekest machine, but from certain angles it looks downright nasty (in a good way). Only from directly behind is it lacking IMO, would have liked to see a thrust vectoring nozzle. But that's just personal preference, and I understand why it doesn't have one.

Then again, a fixed/round nozzle makes its thrust vectoring like maneuvers that much more impressive. I'm not sure how much is attributed to the flight control software and how much to the physical design, perhaps a bit of both. In any case, LM engineers did an incredible job with this one. Given its mission flexibility and compromises, I'd say LM did a better job with it than even the Raptor.

It's just that good all around...


Considering how the thing moves like a Raptor at slow speed, and the problems they had early in the program with the tail getting burned, I wonder if the stabilators hang back far enough for the engine exhaust to give them a bit more authority; a sort of thrust vectoring effect without an actual thrust vectoring nozzle.
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sferrin

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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 17:38

castlebravo wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Wow, incredible display. Especially the turn at 14:20 or so, then straight into the vertical?! That's POWER..

The F-35's looks are really growing on me, right down to the futuristic way the canopy closes. It will never be the sleekest machine, but from certain angles it looks downright nasty (in a good way). Only from directly behind is it lacking IMO, would have liked to see a thrust vectoring nozzle. But that's just personal preference, and I understand why it doesn't have one.

Then again, a fixed/round nozzle makes its thrust vectoring like maneuvers that much more impressive. I'm not sure how much is attributed to the flight control software and how much to the physical design, perhaps a bit of both. In any case, LM engineers did an incredible job with this one. Given its mission flexibility and compromises, I'd say LM did a better job with it than even the Raptor.

It's just that good all around...


Considering how the thing moves like a Raptor at slow speed, and the problems they had early in the program with the tail getting burned, I wonder if the stabilators hang back far enough for the engine exhaust to give them a bit more authority; a sort of thrust vectoring effect without an actual thrust vectoring nozzle.


I've also wondered if there's any ejector effect of the exhaust pulling air past the vertical and horizontals even at low speed.
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vilters

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Unread post03 Apr 2019, 23:05

We don't know the fuel load for these demo's but the vertical performance is great.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 06:57

Comments from the people on youtube who interviewed Dojo at the airshow said the demo is done with full fuel.
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mixelflick

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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 13:01

castlebravo wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Wow, incredible display. Especially the turn at 14:20 or so, then straight into the vertical?! That's POWER..

The F-35's looks are really growing on me, right down to the futuristic way the canopy closes. It will never be the sleekest machine, but from certain angles it looks downright nasty (in a good way). Only from directly behind is it lacking IMO, would have liked to see a thrust vectoring nozzle. But that's just personal preference, and I understand why it doesn't have one.

Then again, a fixed/round nozzle makes its thrust vectoring like maneuvers that much more impressive. I'm not sure how much is attributed to the flight control software and how much to the physical design, perhaps a bit of both. In any case, LM engineers did an incredible job with this one. Given its mission flexibility and compromises, I'd say LM did a better job with it than even the Raptor.

It's just that good all around...


Considering how the thing moves like a Raptor at slow speed, and the problems they had early in the program with the tail getting burned, I wonder if the stabilators hang back far enough for the engine exhaust to give them a bit more authority; a sort of thrust vectoring effect without an actual thrust vectoring nozzle.


Yeah, I can recall LM engineers saying the high AOA/maneuverability is due to the horizontal stabilizers being so far aft of the engine...
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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 14:57

Podcast: Behind The F-35’s New Aerial Tricks
03 Apr 2019 Steve Trimble

"Since first flight of the original F-35 test aircraft more than 12 years ago, the U.S. military has given the public only one glimpse of the aircraft’s hotly contested dogfighting chops — and that was nearly two years ago at the Paris Air Show. That’s changing this year. Defense Editor Steve Trimble talks with U.S. Air Force F-35 Demo Pilot Capt. Andrew “Dojo” Olson about the new display’s public debut on March 30 in Melbourne, Florida."

Source: https://aviationweek.com/defense/podcas ... ial-tricks

DOJO DRIFT: 135 degree Max G turn in 3 seconds Full A/B to 50 degree AoA circuit entry. My brain has shut down. :devil:
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 15:52

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Comments from the people on youtube who interviewed Dojo at the airshow said the demo is done with full fuel.


Jesus, if that's true can you imagine what it can do with a 50% fuel load?!
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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 16:19

mixelflick wrote:Jesus, if that's true can you imagine what it can do with a 50% fuel load?!

have a much shorter demo. Paris was done with less than 100% and it was a 6 minute Demo. The fuel used was stated as being what was needed to perform the demo and still land with needed reserves. More fuel overall is what gave us the longer demo. Look at where the "Dojo Drift" is in the demo, more than halfway through. By that point we are likely around 50% fuel.
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marsavian

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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 16:35

135 degree Max G turn in 3 seconds


Even with the 50 degree alpha thrown in that's still 28 degree instantaneous turn capability which is at the high end of modern fighter capability. Not so much a baby seal more a baby killer whale ;).
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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 16:58

marsavian wrote:
135 degree Max G turn in 3 seconds


Even with the 50 degree alpha thrown in that's still 28 degree instantaneous turn capability which is at the high end of modern fighter capability. Not so much a baby seal more a baby killer whale ;).

Correction: If you want To throw the 50deg aoa you also need To throw the time consumed To pull 50 deg AOA, which Will not shrink the turn rate that much. We can Only assume 28deg+deg/sec.
28deg+/sec is average turn rate. The ITR is defined as peak turn rate and is definately higher than 28+deg/sec. And given that was acheived in 50deg AOA that is even more impressive because at 50deg AOA you are Far away from your clmax which maximizes turn rate.
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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 17:13

Is this maneuver named after the F-35 demo pilot, at 9:19 of this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WOOmbMFA5A
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Unread post04 Apr 2019, 17:25

gta4 wrote:
marsavian wrote:
135 degree Max G turn in 3 seconds


Even with the 50 degree alpha thrown in that's still 28 degree instantaneous turn capability which is at the high end of modern fighter capability. Not so much a baby seal more a baby killer whale ;).

Correction: If you want To throw the 50deg aoa you also need To throw the time consumed To pull 50 deg AOA, which Will not shrink the turn rate that much. We can Only assume 28deg+deg/sec.
28deg+/sec is average turn rate. The ITR is defined as peak turn rate and is definately higher than 28+deg/sec. And given that was acheived in 50deg AOA that is even more impressive because at 50deg AOA you are Far away from your clmax which maximizes turn rate.


Point taken, this is basically its signature bat turn before it climbs horizontally so the 50 degree alpha comes at the end when the airspeed has bled off. If you assume some fraction of a second to eke out that final limit alpha then the ITR must be over 30 degrees per second which is Raptor/Euro-Canard league.
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