F-35 and Airshows

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 00:06

quicksilver wrote:Speaking of deranged bloggers, journalists, etc, Senator "Scandal and a Tragedy" McCain was on the SecAF and CSAF this week in open testimony about why they weren't buying more F-35s/yr, like...80.

He must have realized he has two, potentially three F-35 bases in his/our state.
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jetblast16

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 00:43

Some impressive rate of climb there, in that last video. Coming out of high alpha and accelerating into the vertical was VERY good, particularly for a single engine fighter.
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blindpilot

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 02:00

quicksilver wrote:Speaking of deranged bloggers, journalists, etc, Senator "Scandal and a Tragedy" McCain was on the SecAF and CSAF this week in open testimony about why they weren't buying more F-35s/yr, like...80.


They should have replied that they really wanted to but the expense of keeping all those A-10s and other bases in Arizona, used up all the money! :D :D :devil:

But I guess they didn't see the advantage of being snarky with "the Senator."

BP :D
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doge

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 04:48

Also New video. F-35 Amazing!
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Dragon029

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 05:19

I wouldn't call it a cobra (I feel that's reserved for horizontal flight), but rather more like a half-loop into a controlled post-stall flat spin.
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geforcerfx

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 05:45

Nice the camera guy zoomed in right on the Pirouette coming down.
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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 06:46

steve2267 wrote:
quicksilver wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:I think all the statements from pilots have been exactly correct all along..."


That's a curious statement. What exactly should we expect their comments to be? Propaganda? Marketing?



Shirley hf was referring to insinuations implied or directly stated by "bloggers", so-called "reporters" or "journalists", or other basement dwellers that LM test pilots and service pilots were all shilling for either LM or to keep their prized "pet" aircraft from being cancelled by politicians or their service.


Exactly. I've found it funny how much effort all the detractors have expended doing just that. We here know that statements from pilots are accurate and they know these things "slightly" better than some random bloggers and reporters. It's just great to see it with own eyes but sadly only on video so far. Maybe some day I'll see F-35 doing airshow routine being on the spot myself. Hopefully by Finnish pilot even... :drool:
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steve2267

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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 07:07

Dragon029 wrote:I wouldn't call it a cobra (I feel that's reserved for horizontal flight), but rather more like a half-loop into a controlled post-stall flat spin.


Unless someone with direct knowledge contradicts me, I think this is the so-called pedal turn (also referred to as a pirouette).

I believe the 4th and 5th images in my post here: viewtopic.php?p=356498#p356498 illustrate the velocity vector roll at high alpha used to threaten the bogey (i.e. point the nose at the bad guy) as seen in the above video starting around 1:48. (https://youtu.be/P6Zo7rxxyKQ?t=108).

If I'm understanding my tea leaves correctly, in a WVR fight, at the merge, if the Lightning goes vertical, and the bogey does not go up with the Lightning, then the Lightning rider drives to the center of the bogey's turn, pulls back down, and pedal turns (rolls around velocity vector) to put his nose on the bad guy. At this point, unless the bogey has a wingman or other friends about, I think he's toast.

If at the merge, the F-35 goes vertical, and the bogey goes up with him, then don't you end up in a classic, vertical rolling scissors? The low speed, high alpha controllability demonstrated by the F-35 strongly suggests this is not a place someone wants to ride (dance with) the lightning...

In a furball -- i.e. if one exists -- I'm not sure I want to use this sort of pedal turn, as I get awful slow, and turn myself into a grape, ripe for the picking.

If I need to kill someone right quick (and for whatever reason a faceshot or over the shoulder shot with an AIM-120, ASRAAM, or AIM-9X is not feasible), then this might do the trick, though I think I still get slow.

Image

(I guess that is where "F-18 with a turbo" OR "F-18 with four engines" comes in handy to quickly regain energy.)
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 14:47

Nice! Sweet displays of power and maneuverability......looks like the F35 can pull off impressive high Alpha and post stall moves too. Official news just in: Kopp and Goon exploded their heads after watching the latest F35's practice air show demonstrations.....they could only handle F105 levels of maneuverability......bwahahahaha :devil:
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Unread post09 Jun 2017, 17:22

This morning's practice just concluded. I would have called this one the "scud-running show". Low overcast did not deter the session, and the F-35 was in the clouds almost as much as out of them. Not a problem for the pilot, but observers on the ground could have used DAS to better enjoy it. Rained hard this a.m. and I doubt if Paris would have let the show go on for the real deal. Maybe clearer skies this afternoon?
Edit added: Windy as all get out too.
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Unread post13 Jun 2017, 01:46

http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-s- ... urns-paris

With F-35’s Arrival, Stealth Returns To Paris

Jun 8, 2017
Lara Seligma

More than two decades after the U.S. Air Force gave attendees of Europe’s largest aerospace showcase a rare glimpse at the secretive B-2 bomber, stealth is returning to Le Bourget Airport. Lockheed Martin’s F-35A will make its much-anticipated Paris Air Show debut this year, marking the first time a low-observable aircraft has appeared at the event since 1995. There are many theories about why the U.S. has declined to send stealth aircraft to Paris for the past few decades, primarily related to security and logistics. While stealth is less exotic today than it was when Northrop Grumman unveiled the B-2, the Pentagon is likely still concerned the aircraft could be exposed to prying eyes. It is also simply more difficult for the U.S. to operate stealth aircraft in France than it is elsewhere in Europe such as Germany or the UK, as the Pentagon does not have secure military facilities or basing rights there. Those security and logistics challenges still remain. In fact, Defense Department officials said right up until early May that the JSF would not go to the Paris Air Show, which runs from June 19-26. What has changed, according to multiple experts, is the growing importance of international F-35 sales to the health of the overall program, the increasingly volatile global security environment and the maturity of the aircraft itself. Simply put, the scale has been slowly tipping in recent years, and the pros of sending the F-35 to Paris now outweigh the cons. A little history: Lockheed’s F-117 was the first stealth aircraft to appear at Le Bourget, in 1991. The B-2 was next, but its time there was fleeting—about 1 hr. During the flying demonstration, several French aircraft “got a little too close” to the bomber, likely trying to take pictures of the sensitive stealth coatings, says Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Teal Group.

Lockheed’s F-22 Raptor was scheduled to fly at the 2009 Paris Air Show, but the Air Force canceled the appearance at the last minute, saying the aircraft was tied up elsewhere. However, news reports at the time indicated there may have been another reason the F-22 was a no-show: concerns that the stealth fighter would be exposed to radar trying to gather intelligence on U.S. technology. Eight years later, the Air Force maintains that the last-minute move to send the JSF to Paris is not a reversal, saying that by mid-May the decision simply had not reached the highest levels of leadership yet. (By contrast, Defense Department officials confirmed to reporters a full six months in advance that the F-35 would participate in the 2016 Royal International Air Tattoo and the Farnborough Airshow in the UK.) “In all likelihood, it was the traditional: ‘Well, we’ve never gone, and the answer has always been no.’ Then someone has to shake that cage,” says one former military officer familiar with the Paris Air Show process, who spoke on condition of anonymity. The official pointed to “getting murdered in the press” as one possible contributor to the Air Force’s change of heart. This year, the F-35 will not only fly an aerial demonstration at the European showcase but will also appear in the static park. This seems like unnecessary hassle and risk, given the logistics challenges and security concerns. The Air Force could fly the aircraft from air bases in the UK or Germany, do the demonstration and fly back without ever having to land at Le Bourget. But both Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon appear to be going all out for the F-35’s Paris debut, perhaps with the hope of securing additional international sales. Lockheed sees a market for the F-35 all over the world, with near-term opportunities including Belgium, Canada, Finland, Poland, Switzerland and possibly Germany down the road. In the Middle East, customers could eventually include Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, says Aboulafia.

In a tight budget environment, securing international orders for the F-35 is not just a boon for Lockheed but also is in the best interest of the U.S. government. Whereas the B-2 and F-22 were never designed for export, selling the F-35 to foreign customers has become increasingly crucial for the health of the overall program. While many defense hawks hoped President Donald Trump would increase funds for aircraft modernization, U.S. F-35 procurement is now stalled at fewer than 60 aircraft a year through the five-year defense plan. Absent a sudden influx of cash, any hope for an F-35 ramp-up in the near-term—necessary to decrease unit costs and mitigate a strike fighter shortfall across the armed services—now rests with international exports. “Everything on that airplane is premised on rate,” says Doug Birkey, executive director of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Power Studies. “From a sales standpoint . . . I don’t think they can afford not to go.” Meanwhile, the international market is ripe for the picking. With the F-35’s upcoming appearance at Paris, Lockheed appears to be seizing the opportunity presented by an increasingly unstable world. Spooked by escalating aggression from Russia, China and North Korea, alarmed allies are likely more open to buying a fifth-generation stealth fighter. “The best salespeople in the world include Vladimir Putin, the Chinese and our North Korean friends,” says Birkey. International air shows present a prime opportunity to market new capabilities, says Dan Stohr, spokesman for the Aerospace Industries Association. “The U.S. proudly arranges flight demonstrations and static displays of our civil and military aircraft at these international air shows to reinforce why America is the security and trading partner of choice,” says Stohr. Finally, the F-35 program seems to have turned a corner, programmatically and in the eyes of the public. The long-anticipated Farnborough Airshow debut in 2016 went off without a major hitch, and the Air Force variant successfully completed its first European training deployment earlier this year. Meanwhile, a squadron of the Marine Corps’ F-35Bs permanently deployed to Iwakuni, Japan, and recently completed joint training exercise Northern Edge in Alaska. Lockheed anticipates that development of the final warfighting software will be completed by the end of the year, in time for the Navy to declare its F-35C variant combat-ready in 2018. As the warfighter begins operating the F-35, confidence in the fighter continues to grow. The successful European deployment in particular was “a major stepping-stone” to being able to deploy the F-35 anywhere in the world, says Col. David Lyons, commander of the 388th Fighter Wing at Hill AFB, Utah. “That really was, at the end of the day, one of the biggest objectives of the deployment—to prove that we could take the spares package, the ALIS [Autonomic Logistic Information System], the personnel, the jets, all of the logistics train that goes along with this deployment,” Lyons says. “Now we know that we can take the F-35 and all the equipment, and we can go wherever we want to go in the world.” 
:)
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white_lightning35

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Unread post13 Jun 2017, 03:23

The French, being such classy and solid allies as always...
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Unread post13 Jun 2017, 22:47

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Unread post13 Jun 2017, 22:49

white_lightning35 wrote:The French, being such classy and solid allies as always...


As you were in 2013 about Syria last minute cancellation? USA may not exist without Lafayette and co, remember?
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white_lightning35

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Unread post13 Jun 2017, 23:22

So you are not denying that the French had one instance 240 years ago of helping the US, mostly just to screw the British, and are now not really friendlies?
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