Why is the F-35 replacing the A-10?

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 14 Sep 2013, 03:19

A peek into the mindset at the top.. specialized COIN platforms don't have much support.

http://breakingdefense.com/2013/09/13/v ... f-our-way/

VCJCS Winnefeld Tells Army : Forget Long Land Wars

ARLINGTON: A candid Vice-Chairman of the Joint Staff delivered some tough messages to the Army yesterday and got in a few swipes at Congress and “the political leadership” in general.

Adm. James “Sandy” Winnefeld’s raised the most hackles among the serving and retired officers gathered at the headquarters of the powerful Association of the US Army Thursday night when Winnefeld said the nation would probably not need an Army sized to do any large-scale, long-duration ground operations. The admiral did not only downplay the possibility of prolonged counterinsurgencies like Afghanistan, Iraq, or Vietnam, although he certainly emphasized the decline of COIN: He raised doubt about long wars of any kind...

“I simply don’t know where the security interests of our nation are threatened enough to cause us to cause us to lead a future major, extended COIN campaign,” he continued, “though we were very well might provide support to a nation fighting its own COIN campaign, as we continue to do today in Colombia.” (Note that supporting Afghan security forces, whether today or post-2014, was not his example of choice). “The president himself made it clear in his Defense Strategic Guidance that we will retain some capability for COIN, but only on a limited scale.”

More at the link.

count_to_10 · by **count_to_10** » 14 Sep 2013, 12:57

If we had a penny for every time someone said that...

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 14 Sep 2013, 13:45

count_to_10 wrote:If we had a penny for every time someone said that...

Yeah, but note that the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is an Army general. What better way to get the message across to his Army subordinates than to have a navy Admiral deliver it?

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 22 Sep 2013, 00:03

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2013/09/18/air-f ... 0-warthog/

alloycowboy · by **alloycowboy** » 22 Sep 2013, 05:48

Definitely time to get of the A-10, in an theater of war it is just to venerable without stealth.

archeman · by **archeman** » 22 Sep 2013, 16:27

XanderCrews wrote:http://www.dodbuzz.com/2013/09/18/air-force-mourns-likely-passing-of-a-10-warthog/

I was impressed by how uniform the comments were on that topic.
In general the A-10 is the best thing ever for a ground troops since the invention of the folding cot, and there will never be any substitute (according to the comments).

You can also see on display, every conspiracy theory of AF vs Army ever thunk up.

In the rush to declare that the F-35 just can never do the CAS mission, I don't ever seen any of them ever ponder that the Marines plan to do just that almost exclusively.

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 22 Sep 2013, 19:10

archeman wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:http://www.dodbuzz.com/2013/09/18/air-force-mourns-likely-passing-of-a-10-warthog/

I was impressed by how uniform the comments were on that topic.
In general the A-10 is the best thing ever for a ground troops since the invention of the folding cot, and there will never be any substitute (according to the comments).

You can also see on display, every conspiracy theory of AF vs Army ever thunk up.

In the rush to declare that the F-35 just can never do the CAS mission, I don't ever seen any of them ever ponder that the Marines plan to do just that almost exclusively.

Well said.

Some people still think its the 1980s

count_to_10 · by **count_to_10** » 22 Sep 2013, 19:13

The way I see it, the future of CAS is a combination of ISR drones for targeting and some kind of portable ground launched missile system.
The NLOS-LS didn't work out,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM501_Non- ... nch_System
but the concept is such a good idea, something like it seems inevitable. Meanwhile, mortars seem to be evolving.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 28 Sep 2013, 09:42

POGO weighs in...

Air Force Brass Ignores War's Lessons to Wipe Out A-10s 26 Sep 2013 Robert Coram

http://www.pogo.org/our-work/straus-mil ... ssons.html

count_to_10 · by **count_to_10** » 28 Sep 2013, 13:35

[...] is so blinded by [...] of the multi-mission F-35 that it cannot, or will not, understand the nature of close air support (CAS) on today’s battlefield; how very close our young troops are to the enemy and the special equipment, controllers, and pilots it takes to perform CAS.

Fill in the [...] with "POGO" and "hatred", and they might be on to something.

gtx · by **gtx** » 28 Sep 2013, 21:12

Spot on!!

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 28 Sep 2013, 23:18

[i"]By all accounts, General Welsh is a highly-respected leader and a fine man. But he has been on the job only a year and is facing so many issues, some strategic and immediate, that he has not had time to conduct due diligence regarding the A-10."
[/i]

So, Gen. Welsh has no clue about the value and capabilities of the A-10, the very front-line aircraft he trained on and flew? Patronizing idiot. :roll:

count_to_10 · by **count_to_10** » 29 Sep 2013, 00:32

popcorn wrote:By all accounts, General Welsh is a highly-respected leader and a fine man. But he has been on the job only a year and is facing so many issues, some strategic and immediate, that he has not had time to conduct due diligence regarding the A-10."

So, Gen. Welsh has no clue about the value and capabilities of the A-10, the very front-line aircraft he trained on and flew? Patronizing idiot.

Googled him. This
http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/D ... h-iii.aspx
shows his A-10 service.
So does this,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Welsh
actually.
Seriously, no excuse for claiming he doesn't understand the A-10.

smsgtmac · by **smsgtmac** » 29 Sep 2013, 04:06

spazsinbad wrote:POGO weighs in...

Air Force Brass Ignores War's Lessons to Wipe Out A-10s 26 Sep 2013 Robert Coram

http://www.pogo.org/our-work/straus-mil ... ssons.html

Coram spins tales. He's under the mistaken impression that he knows what he is talking about. He is under an even greater mistaken impression that people will believe whatever cr*p he puts to paper.

As to Gen Welsh. He knows something about fast movers as well as slow movers and hitting targets:
(http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... couts.aspx)
Day of the Killer Scouts
By Lt. Col. Mark A. Welsh, USAF
"It was a reprise of the old "Fast FAC" concept--but they marked their targets with 500-pound bombs."

huggy · by **huggy** » 29 Sep 2013, 09:44

popcorn wrote:[i"]By all accounts, General Welsh is a highly-respected leader and a fine man. But he has been on the job only a year and is facing so many issues, some strategic and immediate, that he has not had time to conduct due diligence regarding the A-10."
[/i]

So, Gen. Welsh has no clue about the value and capabilities of the A-10, the very front-line aircraft he trained on and flew? Patronizing idiot.

popcorn,... I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you being facetious... or are you serious?