F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post29 May 2019, 18:48

:shock: Italian Navy has a thing for the space forward of the ski jump - CAVOUR has it also: http://i.imgur.com/jS2vdUH.jpg

Looked for an answer - perhaps others may know. Anyhoo: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=C7 ... 3F&f=false
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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post29 May 2019, 20:13

Well, then... I stand corrected. I woulda thought leaving the extra feet of takeoff length is like leaving gas behind on the ground. But... the Italians must know best...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post29 May 2019, 22:15

Fincantieri launches the LHD Trieste for the Italian Navy
25 May 2019 Luca Peruzzi

"...explained Vice Admiral Valter Girardelli, Italian Navy’s Chief of Staff. The new LHD will be equipped to operate and support the new Lockheed Martin F-35B STOVL aircraft, and will be delivered in June 2022, with a full aviation capability. Although rumors about the presence of a ski-jump had been around for some time, at the launch ceremony Vice Admiral Girardelli confirmed for the first time that the ship will be fitted with that system, which will allow to fully exploit the F-35B capabilities….

...The LHD presents a full-length flight deck with a two-structures island, two 40 tonnes capable elevators and the capability to accommodate both Italian Navy and Army helicopters in addition to F-35 STOVL aircraft, CH-53s and V-22 tiltrotors type platforms. The hangar can accommodate both aircraft and vehicles while the forward vessel area features a fully equipped NATO Role 2-E hospital area and the amphibious C4I staff area. The underneath main garage and 50×15 meters stern well deck can respectively accommodate wheeled and armored vehicles weighting up to 62 tonnes and up to four Cantiere Navale Vittoria-built LCMs....

...The Inner Layer Defense System is based on three 76/62 Super Rapido gun-mounts with Strales guided ammunition and three dual-band radar-EO/IR NA-30S Mk2 fire control system and remotely-controlled 25/80 mm smaller guns."

Source: https://www.edrmagazine.eu/fincantieri- ... alian-navy
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post30 May 2019, 16:59

JAPAN will have a special version of F-35B called the LIGHTING II (Japanese people also struggle with English Ls). :doh:
Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force Expanding as Tokyo Takes New Approach to Maritime Security
29 May 2019 Tim Fish

"When President Donald Trump visited Japan this month, he was taken on board JS Kaga, one of a pair of new Izumo-class helicopter carriers built for the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) set to be retrofitted to fly the F-35B Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter. The carriers represent a new approach to maritime security that is shifting to a more forward defense posture....

...One of the highlights of the National Defense Program Guidelines was the announcement that the two Izumo-class helicopter carriers (classed in Japan as destroyers) would be converted to launch and recover the F-35B fighter. Up to 40 of the short-takeoff and vertical landing variant of the aircraft are expected to be bought, in addition to the conventional F-35A variants already being bought by the JASDF. The F-35Bs will be operated by JASDF pilots, which means that the maritime and air defense forces will have to learn to work together to provide the carrier capability.

“I support it, and I think most in the U.S. agree with the idea of the F-35B in terms of deployment flexibility, but primarily as a land-based option because they have so many little runways and places they could stash them along the Ryukyu island chain,” Schoff said [Jim Schoff, a senior fellow with the Asia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.]

He added that there were concerns that the retrofit of the Izumo-class ships would be “more of a distraction and not worth the investment,” but he said the conversion of the carriers would not be too expensive.

The modifications will require strengthening of the flight deck with heat-resistant coating; a change in the internal layout of the flight deck to provide more space for the aircraft, weapons and stores; and a ski-ramp on deck. This capability would allow F-35Bs to be used in deployments to the Indian Ocean and in the more remote island chains to the southeast of Japan, such as Okinotori-shima and other more remote places with fewer land-based air defense options.

If an adversary like China wanted to pressure Japan’s outlying islands, “this was a solution, at least on paper, and at least it gives some supplemental options in refueling and maintenance,” Schoff said. “If you have deployed some F-35s and they land on some small islands in the Okinawa chain, it gives some additional flexibility.”..."

Source: https://news.usni.org/2019/05/29/japan- ... e-security
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post30 May 2019, 23:47

Image

In this image, taken from the video of the launch of Trieste, we see the rectangular hole, the absence of anchor points for aircraft in front of it and to the right and left (clearly underlined also by the shadow) we see the sides of the first portion of the ski jump which has yet to be assembled and which will be placed more towards the bow than the Cavour, thanks also to the different location of the anti-aircraft guns (2 on the sides instead of 1 on the front).
The ski jump will be mounted later because it was necessary to maintain the correct balance of the unit (still incomplete) during the launch.
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Unread post31 May 2019, 00:43

spazsinbad wrote:JAPAN will have a special version of F-35B called the LIGHTING II (Japanese people also struggle with English Ls). :doh:
Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force Expanding as Tokyo Takes New Approach to Maritime Security
29 May 2019 Tim Fish


Sounds fishy.
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Unread post31 May 2019, 01:43

weasel1962 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:JAPAN will have a special version of F-35B called the LIGHTING II (Japanese people also struggle with English Ls). :doh:
Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force Expanding as Tokyo Takes New Approach to Maritime Security
29 May 2019 Tim Fish

Sounds fishy.

:mrgreen: Exactemente :devil: And thanks for the overhead of THE HOLE 'flaggy'.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post06 Jun 2019, 06:29

The carrier question and Australia’s options?

Maritime and
Undersea Warfare
05 June 2019
By: Stephen Kuper

As Korea, Japan, China and India continue to invest in aircraft carriers to enhance their maritime security and power projection capabilities – the question remains, should Australia reintroduce a fixed-wing naval aviation capability and what options are available should the nation choose to participate in the regional carrier race?

At the end of the Second World War, the aircraft carrier emerged as the apex of naval prestige and power projection. Unlike their predecessor, the battleship, aircraft carriers in themselves are relatively benign actors, relying heavily a their attached carrier air-wings and supporting escort fleets of cruisers, destroyers and submarines to screen them from hostile action.

In recent years, nations throughout the Indo-Pacific have begun a series of naval expansion and modernization programs with traditional aircraft carriers and large-deck, amphibious warfare ships serve as the core of their respective shift towards greater maritime power projection.

Driving this change is an unprecedented period of Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea and the growing capabilities of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), which has seen the Chinese fielding or preparing to field a range of power projection capabilities, including aircraft carriers and supporting strike groups, fifth-generation combat aircraft, modernized land forces, area-access denial and strategic nuclear forces, combined with growing political and financial influence throughout the region.

Japan has closely followed the modernisation of the Chinese armed forces and raised concerns about the nation’s defence capabilities. As part of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's commitment towards shifting the paradigm following continued Chinese naval build up – particularly the growing capabilities of China's aircraft carrier and amphibious warfare ship fleets – Japan has initiated a range of modernisation and structural refits for the Izumo Class vessels to develop small aircraft carriers.

Developing a blue water navy has been a major focus of Korea's response to the mounting capabilities of North Korea and China's continued assertiveness in the South and East China Seas. The centrepiece of Korea's transition towards a blue water capable navy is the Dokdo Class vessels, which are slightly smaller than the Royal Australian Navy's Canberra Class amphibious warfare ships. However, unlike HMA Ships Canberra and Adelaide, Korea is actively pursuing the acquisition and introduction of F-35B Joint Strike Fighters to provide an integrated fleet air defence and maritime strike capabilities.

For Australia, a nation defined by its relationship with traditionally larger, yet economically weaker regional neighbours, the growing economic prosperity of the region and corresponding arms build up, combined with ancient and more recent enmities, competing geo-political, economic and strategic interests, places the nation at the centre of the 21st century's 'great game'.

Further compounding Australia's precarious position is an acceptance that 'Pax Americana', or the post-Second World War 'American Peace', is over and Australia will require a uniquely Australian approach and recognition that the nation is now solely responsible for the security of its national interests with key alliances serving a secondary, complementary role to the broader debate.

Recognizing this changing regional environment – what carrier options are available to Australia should the nation's leaders elect to pursue a return to fixed-wing naval aviation for the Royal Australian Navy?

Upgrade the LHDs or acquire a dedicated LHD?

The notion of Australia acquiring a third, F-35B dedicated Canberra Class LHD has been discussed at great length by both strategic policy analysts and politicians since the RAN acquired the vessels. Currently, the HMA Ships Canberra and Adelaide lack a number of structural and technical modifications that would enable the ships to safely and effectively operate the aircraft and any third vessel would need to incorporate the modifications from the keel up, in a similar manner to the Turkish Navy's recently launched TCG Anadolu (based on the Canberra/Juan Carlos Class vessels).

Despite the apparent structural limitations of HMA Ships Canberra and Adelaide, the vessels' base design, the Juan Carlos I, was designed from the keel up to accommodate a fixed-wing naval aviation capability. The Spanish vessel, when acting in the light carrier role, is capable of accommodating 10-12 AV-8B Harrier IIs or Lockheed Martin F-35Bs combined with an additional 10-12 helicopters by using the light vehicles bay as an additional storage space.

Meanwhile, despite continuing issues with Turkey's access to the F-35, Turkey fully expects to operate a small fleet of the Lockheed Martin F-35B from the TCG Anadolu. Despite the relative success of the platform in the light carrier role, it is important to recognize the limitations of the LHDs in the carrier capacity and role, and identify alternatives that would better suit the introduction of a dedicated aircraft carrier role.

The Italian job

The Italian Navy, like it's Spanish, American and British counterparts, operates a specialized, small-aircraft carrier designed to accommodate fixed-wing naval aviation capabilities – the Fincantieri aircraft carrier Cavour and the recently launched Trieste fulfill the aircraft carrier role. The Cavour has a maximum displacement of 30,000 tons, maximum speed of 29+ knots with a range of 7,000 nautical miles (12,964 km) at a speed of 16 knots.

Cavour is designed to accommodate a combined fleet of 12 support helicopters and 10 AV-8B Harrier IIs or Lockheed Martin F-35Bs in the hangar with an additional six parked on the flight deck. It combines the aircraft carrier capability with the capacity to serve as a traditional LHD with accommodation for a maximum capacity for 450 amphibious infantry.

The rising sun

The Japanese government has closely monitored the rise of the Chinese Navy and its growing force of aircraft carriers and territorial ambitions, particularly in the South China Sea and the Southern Ryukyu and Senkaku Islands. In response, Japan recently announced that it would begin the refit of the Izumo Class vessels to reintroduce an integrated fixed-wing naval aviation capability to the JMSDF.

Izumo and her sister ship Kaga are capable of supporting Air Wings of 28 aircraft, with capacity for about 10 'B' variant of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, with both 27,000-tonne vessels capable of supporting 400 marines. While in the early stages of design phase for the refit of the vessels, incorporating the F-35B into the two vessels enhances the maritime strike and broader deterrence options for Japan.

However, the Japanese decision is not without challenges. China's growing fleet of aircraft carriers, and the increasingly potent area-access/area denial (A2AD) capabilities provided by anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) systems like the DF-21 and DF-26, increase the risk to aircraft carriers and large-deck amphibious warfare ships – accordingly, the Japanese and Korean navies have responded by increasing the quantity and quality of escort vessels including destroyers and frigates.

The introduction of a dedicated aircraft carrier benefits Australian industry as well, through increased procurement programs for support and escort vessels, larger F-35 supply chain contributions and larger sustainment and maintenance contracts, which are key to keeping the Navy 'battle ready and deployed'.

Australia’s security and prosperity are directly influenced by the stability and prosperity of the Indo-Pacific, meaning Australia must be directly engaged as both a benefactor and leader in all matters related to strategic, economic and political security, serving as either a replacement or complementary force to the role played by the US – should the US commitment or capacity be limited.

Enhancing Australia's capacity to act as an independent power, incorporating great power-style strategic economic, diplomatic and military capability serves not only as a powerful symbol of Australia's sovereignty and evolving responsibilities in supporting and enhancing the security and prosperity of Indo-Pacific Asia – shifting the public discussion away from the default Australian position of "it is all a little too difficult, so let's not bother" will provide unprecedented economic, diplomatic, political and strategic opportunities for the nation.

Both fixed-wing naval aviation and amphibious capabilities are one of the key force multipliers reshaping the Indo-Pacific. The growing prevalence of fixed-wing naval aviation forces in particular serves to alter the strategic calculus and balance of power. Get involved with the discussion in the comments section below, or get in touch with Stephen.Kuper@momentummedia.com.au or at editor@defenceconnect.com.au.

https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/marit ... -s-options
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Unread post13 Jun 2019, 03:35

From E-mail UNofficial TRIESTE + Ski Jump + F-35B graphic (badge is Italian Naval Aviation official).
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Unread post03 Jul 2019, 00:08

Again via e-mail TRIESTE now mit JumpDeSki.
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Unread post03 Jul 2019, 01:42

Interesting two towers design. Lord of the wings...
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Unread post03 Jul 2019, 04:00

Will be interesting to see if other navies adopt the general concept of the Trieste???
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Unread post03 Jul 2019, 06:14

spazsinbad wrote:Again via e-mail TRIESTE now mit JumpDeSki.



triesteskijump.png
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Unread post18 Jul 2019, 21:34

Spain's Harrier Carrier [SIX page PDF of this article attached below]
Aug 2019 Rafael Treviño & Salvador Mafé Huertas

"...Each deck lift has a 25-ton capacity and can move a CH-47 or F-35B….

The ship is also designed to operate with the F-35B, should Spain decide to acquire this fighter to replace its Harrier fleet. It’s rumoured that the JCI may host US Marine Corps F-35Bs on its deck before the end of the year.

In the meantime, the 13 Harriers operated by the 9ª Escuadrilla are highly regarded. The unit doesn’t seem too concerned about the type’s replacement and the aircraft are progressively upgraded, adding new capabilities such as the Litening 4 targeting pod....

...Below decks, the hangar can be configured depending on mission profile. For the amphibious role, it has an available surface of 10,764sq ft (1,000m2). This can be increased by another 22,023sq ft (2,046m2), using the upper garage located under the hangar, to embark a larger volume of flying assets in an aircraft carrier profile. The hangar can hold up to 12 medium helicopters. As a ‘pure’ aircraft carrier, the vehicles and materiel on board would be replaced by ten to 12 Harrier IIs (or F-35Bs) in addition to the 12 helicopters. For large-scale amphibious operations, a mix of up to 30 medium and heavy helicopters can be embarked and operated.

To support air operations, it’s estimated the ship has reserves of fuel, weaponry and spares to allow for the embarked aircraft to operate over a period of 50 days without resupply...."

Source: AIRforces Monthly August 2019 Issue 377
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JCI Harriers AirForces Monthly Aug 2019 pp6.pdf
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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post22 Jul 2019, 23:49

WORD on the street as per above post USS Essex will provide F-35Bs cross de deck to JCI to fly like the HAIRIERS in video.

LHD Juan Carlos I, Harrier groovitude https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PSA3nKfyb8

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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